GTOG Sunday Meditation Session: Delson Armstrong Sutta reading & explanation Upanisa Sutta

Hello, everyone. I hope you are all doing well. Today we're going to be reading from Samyutta Nikaya 12.23. And this is a translation by Bhikkhu Bodhi. And it's translated as proximate cause. Proximate cause is essentially the cause right before the preceding effect or the succeeding effect. So in this case it's going to discuss the links of dependent origination, but it's also going to be talking about the transcendental dependent origination, which arises with suffering as the initial cause. And the way the Buddha is going to explain it, he's going to do it in the reverse order: first understand the end of the path, the end of the transcendental dependent origination.

And then he will walk you all the way back to suffering. And then from there, take you back through the links of dependent origination all the way to ignorance. Now, this isn't the only Upanisa sutta, which is the original name for it. There are three other Upanisa suttas, one after another, in the Anguttara Nikaya 11, I believe, and they're very similar in nature, with just one difference: here it's related to the link of faith, which is the starting point from which the transcendental dependent origination starts, and in the other Upanisa suttas it's in reference to sila, in reference to maintaining one's precepts, as the starting point.

So with that preface, let me start reading, and I will explain as I continue reading. At Savatthi, bhikkhus, I say that the destruction of the taints is for one who knows and sees, not for one who does not know and does not see. So here he's talking about the entrance into arahatship. One becomes an arahant when the taints are destroyed.

He says, its origin such, its passing away such, are volitional formations; such are their origin and such are their passing away; such is consciousness, such its origin, such its passing away. It is for one who knows thus, for one who sees thus, that the destruction of the taints comes about. So here the Buddha is referring to the five aggregates. This is also in reference to the Digha Nikaya, where we have a recollection of the Vipassi Buddha who goes through the different links of dependent origination, and at the very end he then contemplates. And to contemplate is to just observe the arising and passing away without any involvement of each of the five aggregates, and in seeing that there was insight into the impermanence of each of the five aggregates, and what is impermanent should not be worth holding on to because it is a cause for suffering, and whatever is a cause for suffering should not be accepted as personal self. So it's the insight into the three characteristics of the five aggregates, and so one no longer clings or craves through those five aggregates.

And because of no clinging, because of no craving, there are no more taints for that craving to arise. Because there's no more identifying with those aggregates, there is no more of the taint of being, of identity view, or bhava asava, as they say. And because one has seen the three characteristics, and one has understood the four noble truths, there is no more of the taint of ignorance either. So because of that, then there is the destruction of the taints and the realization of arahatship. Then he says, I say because that the knowledge of destruction in regard to destruction has a proximate cause; it does not lack a proximate cause. So the knowledge of destruction in regard to destruction, which means

that once one attains nibbana and attains arahatship there is a reviewing process of the mind that reflects back on what occurred, and there is the knowledge that the taints have been destroyed. Now, what is the cause of that? And he says, and what is the proximate cause for the knowledge of destruction? It should be said liberation. So liberation here is in reference to the actual emancipation of the mind through the experience of nibbana. So the experience of nibbana is after having come out of cessation of perception and feeling; the mind experiences this seeing into the links of dependent origination, and it sees it without any involvement, and the experience of the relief of the mind, having made contact with the nibbana element, is not identified with.

And so there is total liberation of mind, because nowhere in that process is the mind clinging to it or craving for it. I say bhikkhus that liberation, too, has a proximate cause. It does not lack a proximate cause. And what is the proximate cause for liberation? It should be said dispassion, or vairagya in Sanskrit, and that can also be understood as detachment. This arises when one is taking quiet mind as the object in the eighth jhana, and one experiences a very deep sense of this enchantment, as we'll see later on, but that gives rise to dispassion, and this dispassion basically does not take anything as an object of interest for the mind. The mind is no longer bothered by and is no longer attached to or looking for any movement of the mind.

So any formations that arise in the way of the mind is not considered in terms of its attention to it. It just passes away without any interest, without any attachment to it. arises. I say, bhikkhus, that dispassion, too, has a proximate cause. It does not lack a proximate cause. And what is the proximate cause for dispassion? It should be said revulsion. Now, this is the translation that Bhikkhu Bodhi chose to use. The original Pali is nibbida, and one of the other translations for that word is disenchantment.

So as you're getting deeper into the jhana, and as your mind becomes more and more still, and it's with the object of meditation, which is the quiet mind, it's no longer interested, as I said, with this enchantment with the formations that arise, and because of that non-attention those formations just dissipate because of the lack of attention. And this enchantment, it can be likened to seeing that nothing here is worth holding on to. It arises due to the fact that you see that all formations are impermanent and not worth holding on to, and therefore not self.

It can be likened to when you eat your favorite meal, for example, and at first you have craving for it, let's say, and you start eating it, and then you have another serving of it, and then you have another serving of it. At a certain point, you just get sick and tired of it. It just becomes something you don't want to see anymore. That's on a physical level, but here we're talking in the mental process, where your mind has just become unbothered and no longer interested with the formations. It has become content with just staying with that quiet mind. I say, bhikkhus, that revulsion, too, has a proximate cause; it does not lack a proximate cause. And what is the proximate cause for revulsion? It should be said the knowledge and vision of as they really are. So now what we're going to see is the intertwining of the seven factors of enlightenment within this transcendental dependent origination. The knowledge and vision of things as they really are is known as yathabhuta nanadassana, which means basically seeing reality as it is, and this arises due to equanimity.

So this equanimity is really the mind that remains undisturbed and is just able to see things clearly. It has no craving or attachment towards one element or another, and neither does it have any sense of aversion towards another element. It's just watching reality, observing it without any involvement, and just seeing things as they arise and as they pass away.

Especially in the sixth arupa jhana. So in the sixth jhana, or the ayatana of infinite consciousness, if you have experience, you will see that you start to see the arising and passing away of different consciousnesses. After a while it gets tiresome; after a while the mind no longer is interested in it, but it's just watching it without any involvement, without any attachment, or without any aversion. This is seeing reality as it is: you're seeing the arising and passing away of consciousness. And that disenchantment that arises is having seen that this process is impersonal, there's no controller, so you're no longer interested in it because it just becomes tiresome, it becomes boring. So that deepens into that disenchantment. So that equanimity that arises because of seeing that in the level of nothingness, and then that deepens into that disenchantment. I say because that the knowledge and vision of things as they really are too has a proximate cause, it does not lack a proximate cause. And what is the proximate cause for the knowledge and vision of things as they really are? It should be said collectedness. So this is the that arises

when one gets into jhana, when one starts to experience mindfulness and then gets deeper into the process of samadhi. And this samadhi is a mind that is unified around its object. The more it becomes unified with its object, that doesn't mean that it identifies with it or it becomes absorbed in it, but it's just watching it; it allows the mind to be unified around it. It starts to just see things as they really are without any involvement. So that means if a hindrance arises, that is just the truth of that moment, that is the reality of the situation. Because of that collected mind, you were able to see it, and then use the 6R's process to recognize it, to release your attention away from it, to relax the tension that arose from it, to re-smile, and then come back to your object orientation whenever necessary. So this is really samadhi, which is the unified attention.

I say, bhikkhus, that collectedness, too, has a proximate cause; it does not lack a proximate cause. And what is the proximate cause for collectedness? It should be said happiness. So this is translated from the word sukham, which is this sense of comfort and ease that happens in the mind. This is a factor of especially the first three jhanas. What is more prevalent in the first two jhanas is piti, as we'll see. And piti is that rapture, or that intense joy, that excited form of joy that arises.

And it's also an enlightenment factor, as we'll see. But then along with that is sukha, which is this happiness, this pleasant feeling of mind. It's just this comfort and ease of the body and of the mind. The mind has this wonderful sense of well-being, that everything is all right, and it's very tranquil. So because of that, there is that sukha. I say, bhikkhus, that happiness, too, has a proximate cause. It does not lack a proximate cause. And what is the proximate cause?

For happiness it should be said tranquility. So this tranquility is the enlightenment factor of tranquility, and this is passaddhi in Pali. And this is a mind that has been tranquilized, or the formations have been tranquilized in the mind, through the repeated process of the six R's. Every time you do the six R's and stay with that relax step, you're experiencing the tranquilizing of formations, the tranquilizing of the formations that had arisen and given rise to the hindrances. When you let go of your attention to the hindrances and then relax the tension, you're relaxing the formations that you're tranquilizing, the formations related to those hindrances. And then you're replacing that with your smile, which brings about that happiness and that joy, the factor of piti or joy. So you are basically letting go of the unwholesome and replacing it with the wholesome, and that delineation point is the relax step. When you relax, this is what you're doing. You are letting go of those formations and you are replacing those formations with formations that are rooted in happiness, rooted in joy, rooted in wholesomeness.

I say, bhikkhus, that tranquility too has a proximate cause. It does not lack a proximate cause. And what is the proximate cause for tranquility? It should be said rapture. So this is piti, this is the joy that one feels, the enlightenment factor of joy. And of course, as I mentioned, you experience that joy in the first and second jhana, and then that starts to dissipate, but the mind has now come into balance and tranquilized, and come into a more relaxed, comfortable state of being in the third jhana. So you're essentially, in this path of transcendental dependent origination, starting to activate and then bring into balance the enlightenment factors, and you start to play with them on a very minuscule scale, on a very micro level, at the eighth jhana, whenever the mind starts to lean towards one way or another, in terms of restlessness or sloth and torpor. So now that this joy is experienced, it naturally gives rise to the feeling of tranquility that's there in the third jhana, and that feeling of happiness that arises from that tranquility.

Now, if you notice with the six R's process, you have first the recognize, so you're using mindfulness to recognize. You let go your attention from that, and then you bring back your awareness to the mind and body and relax. Or if you're in a higher state, you just bring it back to the mind and just let go, relax, and come back here. When you're tranquilizing the formations, there's tranquility first, and then there's this natural happiness and a natural joy that arises from that smile. That smile is the anchor for that joy to arise. So that means that there's an interconnection between joy and tranquility.

The joy can arise and then give rise to tranquility, or the tranquility can rise and give rise to joy. It can happen either way, but ultimately they will lead to a more tranquil state and then finally a more collected state of mind through samadhi. I say bhikkhus that rapture too has a proximate cause. cause and what is the proximate cause for rapture it should be said gladness now this gladness is translated from the Pali pamoja and that comes from the Sanskrit promote and promote is essentially this happiness born from practicing this happiness and this joyful interest in the Dharma this joyful interest in the path after having learned about the path and wanting to follow the path so it's it's something that is innate and arises as a result of following the precepts as a result of following sila which gives natural rise to samadhi and now the buddha will talk about the cause of gladness he says i say because that gladness too has a proximate cause not lack a proximate cause.

And what is the proximate cause for gladness? It should be said faith. Now, faith is translated from the Pali word saddha, which is from the Sanskrit shraddha. And saddha can be understood as conviction as well. And this faith is dependent upon the willingness to learn. It's, of course, arisen because of a few things. Number one, suffering. When one has suffered enough, as you'll see in the next passage, there is this search for something to lead one out of the suffering. It is that samvega, samvega is what was experienced by the Buddha when he was a bodhisattva and he had come across the knowledge or the seeing of old age and death and so on, and then ultimately had the spiritual urgency to go on a path towards liberation, to find a way out of suffering.

Here it can be understood that samvega is when you suffer, there is something in your mind that says, I don't want to suffer anymore. I need to find a way out. This wanting to find a way out is chanda, is cultivated intention. This gives rise, and this is arisen because of that samvega. Then that gives rise to a willingness to learn and understand, and that could be an action one takes, searching on the internet, searching on YouTube or something that could provide you peace of mind, whether it's the videos that you see on YouTube or meditation practice or whatever it might be, but in some way you are introduced to the Dhamma. And so you have this mindfulness of this is the Dhamma, and then you have the investigation into what is the Dhamma?

This is not blind faith. This is conviction that is born from seeing the effectiveness of practicing the Dhamma. You have a willingness to learn, a willingness to practice the path, and then start to experience the effects of the path, start to experience the effects of having maintained the precepts and having started to meditate and so on. And so that becomes conviction.

Of conviction, when one actually goes into stream entry and no longer has any doubt in the practice, and that's a deeper conviction. Now, in this whole process of letting go of that doubt, there is this process of making effort to do so. So it's not just allowing the mind to be in suffering, but you're taking initiative. So this faith is also dependent upon right effort, dependent upon making the effort to want to learn about the Dhamma, practice the Dhamma, and ultimately gain wisdom from the Dhamma. So this is really the starting point of the transcendental dependent origination. Now the Buddha is going to talk about the dependent origination as we know it, in relation to how samsara, this wheel of samsara, is mechanized through the links of dependent origination. So now he says, I say, bhikkhus, that faith too has a proximate cause.

It does not lack a proximate cause. And what is the proximate cause for faith? It should be said suffering. So there are different definitions for suffering, but as we'll see, suffering here is the mental suffering that arises, the physical suffering that arises in the form of bodily pain, illness, disease, old age, the physical decay of the body as one ages, and so on. One of the shorthands for suffering is understanding that the five aggregates, the five clinging aggregates, or the five aggregates subject to clinging, in short, are suffering, meaning suffering can be experienced through one or more of these five aggregates when there is clinging and craving involved. So then he says, I say, bhikkhus, that suffering too has a proximate cause. It does not lack a proximate cause. And what is the proximate cause for suffering? It should be said birth or rebirth. Now, there are a couple of ways of understanding rebirth. Number one is the macro level, where one takes rebirth over and over in samsara

and experiences the effects of one's actions in previous lifetimes, in previous lives, through the formations that take root in the next life. And so there is this rebirth, and one continues to experience it until one has the wisdom to see it and let go of it and attain arahantship. On a micro level, there is the rebirth of that definition of insanity, which is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome. So rebirth in that sense is one does not learn through wisdom and mindfulness and observation.

Practicing right effort, practicing the six R's, to be able to see whenever an unwholesome state of mind arises. You see whenever the mind starts to personalize and identify with something. This gives rise to the other links. When it comes to the level of, as we'll see, the level of feeling, where one has an experience through one or more of the five physical senses or a mental experience, one then perceives that to be pleasant or unpleasant, and then attaches a self to it and says, I like it, or I don't like it, or just identifies with it, that I am this, causing one to have craving for that experience. And then that gives rise to clinging, and so on, as we'll see.

But the whole point here is to understand that rebirth on the micro level is rebirth of action, rebirth of speech, rebirth of intention and thought, having the same kind of thinking patterns, expecting it to be different, and then having suffering because of that: the mental suffering that arises because you expect something that doesn't happen the way you expected it to be, or you have some form of craving, or the body doesn't come out the way you want it, in whatever way it might be. And then there is also physical and mental suffering. So this birth is in reference to, one, the birth in samsara, and second, the rebirth that happens in the way of rebirth of the five aggregates arising and passing away.

And in that process, identifying with them and identifying with that action, so that causes new kamma. And that new kamma then gives rise to suffering and the effects of that kamma that one has to experience in the next moment, or in the next succeeding moments, or days, or weeks, or whatever it might be. And then he says, that birth, too, has a proximate cause. It does not lack a proximate cause. And what is the proximate cause for birth? It should be said existence.

So this is translated in many different ways. This comes from the word bhava. It can mean habitual tendencies. It can mean existence. It can mean being. It can mean identity, whatever it might be. The sense of self is most prominent. And from here, then, the birth of action arises. And this sense of self is built up through these tendencies, these underlying tendencies.

There's the underlying tendency towards craving or liking for something. There's the underlying tendency for having aversion towards something. There's the underlying tendency for different views. for doubt to arise there's the underlying tendency for conceit to arise there's the underlying tendency for ignorance to arise and for being to arise that sense of identity that I am this so from there you are acting for example you might have the identity view that you know I am a Buddhist or I follow this practice and there's attachment to that or I am following so on it can be the experience of identifying with that causing one to not experience anything further in the way of letting go of attachment so one has to be aware of this one has to be mindful of seeing whenever there is attachment or identify identification

going on with any of these processes which gives rise to this identity and from which this identity one acts whenever one acts from this sense of identity is a sense of personalizing self, there will be new kama that needs to be played out and the effects of which that need to be experienced in the next set of choices.

And so he says, I say, bhikkhus, that existence too has a proximate cause. It does not lack a proximate cause. And what is the proximate cause for existence? It should be said, clinging. are different types of clinging here so now in being there was this concrete sense of self from which one acts and it's made up of all of these different tendencies as i mentioned and then these tendencies are given rise by the clinging for the for the different types of clinging there's the clinging to rites and rituals there's the clinging to views there's the clinging to sensual or mental experiences there's the clinging self-view so these different types of clinging then give rise to the different tendencies habitual tendencies which create that sense of being of bhava and the different kinds of clinging here with regards to rites and rituals it is the clinging to rights and rituals in terms of not only having that idea that this will this right and ritual will give rise to nibbana or the experience of nibbana but also to certain routines

and to certain rites and rituals that one believes will be effective it's this attachment and identifying with them that one needs to understand and let go of the the clinging to uh to views is in relation to the two different types of views traditionally speaking the view of eternalism and the view of annihilationism the view of eternalism talks about um that that there is this underlying abiding permanent sense of self that will continue on after the dissolution of the body and it is the same sense of self that gives rise to different bodies gives rise to different births so it's the same atman the annihilationist view is that there is only self tied to the body and then it dissipates along with the body so it's equated with the four great elements and the other that made up make up the body and then it dissolves along with the mentality and materiality

but in both cases there is this sense of self arising because of it but the Buddha says that the middle way is to understand it through dependent origination how the sense of self arises in every passing moment through the five aggregates and through the links of dependent origination when one understands this then one sees that there is no permanent self to cling to So that goes into clinging to self-view, clinging to the idea that one or more of the aggregates, or the aggregates in general, are identified with a sense of self, or originate from a sense of self, or the sense of self belongs to them, or there's the four different types of view in relation to each of them.

as the self there's the view that the five aggregates are originating from the sense of self there's the five there's a view that the five aggregates give rise to the self and there's the view that the self is separate from the five aggregates so these different types of view self-view is the clinging that arises when one takes personal in one way or another in relation to these views regarding any of the experiences that arise from the five aggregates and then the the clinging to sensual experiences or mental experiences arises when there's craving so it arises whenever there is some kind of experience that you have for example you have you go to a restaurant and you eat your favorite food

or you eat some kind of food and then immediately you enjoy it and you really like the taste of that food the aroma of that food and you start to this identity identification process around the food now in in your mind it's this idea that that food is now your favorite so now you're clinging to that experience of having that food again at a future time and it's become part of your identity and it can be related to your favorite smell it could be related to you know your favorite color or whatever it might be it could be related to a nostalgia of beautiful memories you have of in the past. It can also be related to things that you hold on to in the way of arable memories where you create this identity of being helpless because of those memories being the person you are now because of those memories.

And so there is still this attachment to those memories. And that clinging to that experience is what gives rise to that identity that is connected to those memories. So then he says, I say bhikkhus that clinging to has a proximate cause it does not lack a proximate cause and what is the proximate cause for clinging it should be said craving i say bhikkhus that create okay so let's go with uh craving so now craving is of three types there is the i want this i don't like this or i like this and i want this i don't like this and i don't want this or i am this and this give this this arises because of personalizing in some way the experience one has so that experience that one feels or has the experience of through the link of feeling you see there is the as we'll talk about now there is the level of feeling which is just a bare sensation then the perception that this is pleasant or unpleasant or neither that feeling when it is pleasant and the mind attaches to it it craves more for that experience

when it is unpleasant it doesn't want more of that and it tries to go away from that experience it's not happy with the present moment of that experience or if it's neutral there is this clinging of identity around it that i am experiencing this this i am experiencing this can happen also in the process of john whenever you have experience that I am radiating loving-kindness or I am experiencing compassion this I am starts to create this identification process with the Brahma Vihara as well as the different factors of the Jana so to let go of that one should just observe how loving-kindness arises in the mind and just watch like an impersonal scientist through a microscope how the loving kindness arises or how the compassion arises and radiates so your your only duty here so to speak is just to watch without any identification anytime you see that the mind is attaching to that im process within the jhana pull back

let go of that six are that and just watch like you're in a movie theater and you're just watching the jhanas go by you're watching the factors of the jhanas go by watching the Brahma Viharas go by. And so he says, I say bhikkhus that craving too has a proximate cause. It does not lack a proximate cause.

And what is the proximate cause for craving? It should be said feeling. So as I just mentioned, feeling is really just that bare sensation that arises based on contact. It is just the experience of seeing. Seeing is feeling, hearing is feeling, tasting is feeling, smelling is feeling, touching is feeling, and thinking is feeling. The contents of that is perception in terms of how one labels that experience.

So that experience of seeing a tree in front of you and having that as a neutral feeling is a perception. And the seeing of that tree is perception. that the vision of that is healing or fee for feeling it should be for feeling it should be said contact so he's he's saying that contact is the proximate cause for feeling contact is a conjoining of the eye if we talk about seeing the experience of the eye eye consciousness and the form it's the initial stimulation of the eye that gives rise to the experience of seeing then on top of that is the perception of whether that is pleasant what one is seeing unpleasant or neutral and then along with that more perception in terms of labeling whether what one is seeing is a green color is one seeing a tree and so on and so forth this is rooted in memory this is rooted in previous choices and previous formations

So this contact is the initial stimulation of the sense receptors, of the sixth sense bases. So it says, for contact, the sixth sense bases. If you don't have the sixth sense bases, you won't have the initial stimulation, the initial contact. So for the sixth sense bases, name and form, or mentality, materiality. So mentality is made up of five aspects.

You have contact, feeling, perception, intention, and attention. These can be understood as processes through the five aggregates. Contact arising through the form aggregate. Feeling arising through the feeling aggregate. Perception arising through the perception aggregate. Intention arising through the formation aggregate. And attention arising through the consciousness aggregate. So these faculties, these five faculties, of mentality are essentially just you can think of them as the way through which feeling arises so the way through which contact arises so it's the mind aspect the mind which gives rise to the experience of contact which gives rise to the experience of feeling and perception of intention and attention and then the form itself is the actual physical up this form.

If we understand it in modern terms, it is the four states of matter. It is the solid molecules, the liquid molecules, the gaseous molecules, and the plasma molecules that make up the different components of the body and everything that we experience in the way of form. And then for name and form, the proximate cause is consciousness. Now, there's two ways to understand this, again, with everything in relation to dependent origination. There's the macro level and there's the micro level. On the macro level here, it's in reference to consciousness that arises at the point of conception and takes root into the womb.

And then that consciousness gives rise to that name and form, to that mentality and materiality that starts to become developed in the form of existence, in the form of being. Contact, feeling and perception in its own way as it starts to develop the sixth sense basis through that mentality and materiality. On a micro level, consciousness is also understood to be the consciousness that arises dependent upon the sensory feelings and the mental experience. So there are the six types of consciousness. So this is the potential for that consciousness to be established through name and form and then be experienced through the sixth sense basis, and the contact and feeling and perception that arises through one or more of the sixth sense basis.

So when you're experiencing that arising and passing away of consciousness, whether it's at the eyes or the ear or the nose or the tongue, you're starting to see the arising and passing away of those consciousnesses, those sensory consciousnesses. And then for consciousness, it says the proximate cause is volitional formations. Bhikkhu Bodhi chose to use the word volitional formations, but you can understand it to be as fettered formations, karmic formations that are fettered by craving, fettered by conceit, and fettered by ignorance.

These formations are given rise to because of ignorance, because of choices made in the past where there was craving that arose, where there was identification that arose, where there was personalizing that arose, and where there was ignorance, where there was no awareness of the four noble truths in that moment. This gives rise to what is known as abhisankhara, which are karmic formations, or I would call them fettered formations. And so he says, I say, because that volitional or fettered formation too has a proximate cause. They do not lack a proximate cause. And what is the proximate cause for these formations? It should be said ignorance. So ignorance here is in reference to not knowing and then not experiencing the four noble truths. There is the experience of ignorance at the level of not knowing the path, not knowing the Dhamma, not being introduced to the Dhamma. That's one level of ignorance. Then after one experiences the path and starts to cultivate the path, there is the ignorance of not seeing the four noble truths in every moment. And how does one see the four noble truths in every moment? Through mindfulness

through the four foundations of mindfulness, to being aware and understanding and investigating and seeing whenever some form of craving arises or some form of aversion arises, using the four right efforts, using the six R's to let go of that identification process, let go of that craving, let go of that aversion, and then experience that mundane nibbana, that relaxed up when one tranquilizes the formations. So when you see that there is craving arising, you are experiencing, well, when you see suffering arising, when you see that you have experienced some kind of mental pain or physical pain and then the mind starts to identify with it, you see that there's craving arising. When you recognize that and you let go of that, and you come back to the mind and body and lacks the formations, then you experience the third noble truth, which is the cessation of that suffering, that mundane nibbana.

That mundane nibbana, and how you're doing it is through the fourth noble truth of having understood the path, the eightfold path, and specifically using right effort, which is through the six R's process, to come to that experience of cessation of suffering. So the more you do this, what you are doing effectively is letting go of those fettered formations, which would have made you identify deeper, which would have made you then experience suffering on a deeper level. By letting that go you're replacing them with wisdom. Every time you see in that moment when there is attachment or aversion or identifying to an experience and you let go of it, you are replacing that with those formations rooted in that experience, formations rooted in the experience of the third and fourth noble truth. So essentially, through the six R's process you're letting go of formations rooted in the first and second noble truth and replacing them with the third and fourth noble truth through right effort, through that process.

With liberation as proximate cause, the knowledge of destruction. Just as bhikkhus, when rain pours down in thick droplets on a mountaintop, the water flows down along the slope and fills the clefts, gullies and creeks. These, being full, fill up the pools. These, being full, fill up the lakes. These, being full, fill up the streams. These, being full, fill up the rivers, and these, being full, fill up the great ocean. And so he repeats that whole process again. So too, with ignorance as proximate cause, volitional formations come to be. Cause craving, with craving as proximate cause clinging, with clinging as proximate cause being, with being as proximate cause birth, with birth as proximate cause suffering, with suffering as proximate cause faith, with faith as proximate cause gladness, with gladness as proximate cause rapture. With rapture as proximate cause, tranquility.

It's just going to be, just go back and looping again, right? So my personal experience as well, that at one point I suffered a lot, and then at one point I thought, wait a minute, it has to be a better way. And then I guess that's, do you think this is a lot that paramis will be contributed? There might be some other factors as well. Can you please... yeah, yeah, you could say that. They are karmic in nature at a certain point. And of course there is the cultivation of the paramis and so on. But if you think about it in just this present life, where you have come across so much suffering in one way or another.

At a certain point, you just get tired of it and you just want to weigh out. And some people get sort of bogged down with the search. So they're searching for something. And in that process also, there can be suffering because one hasn't found what one is looking for. It just doesn't satisfy one. And then one comes across the Dhamma. One comes across the experience of you know finding out about the buddha finding out about the dharma that is a very crucial step in this process so without that without the introduction of the mind to the dharma then there can't be the potential for faith to arise so yes there is the cultivation of the parames and the karmic nature of that whole process so it can be that a being could experience suffering and then not no longer Not having being introduced to the Dhamma in one life takes rebirth in another life, doesn't get introduced to the Dhamma in that life, takes rebirth in another life, and so on, until finally, in some way, they are introduced to the Dhamma.

So that's a very crucial step, to be introduced to the teachings. And then there is a choice at that process whether one wants to continue and then investigate and then make the effort to actually practice that. That's saddha. Yeah, thank you so much. That's part of the very important thing, especially for the people around you who has the comment, our relationship with you, like for example kids and stuff, for us to introduce to the Dhamma. I will say thank you so much, Delson. It's really wonderful. Thank you, Delson, for a very interesting talk. I'm wondering if you can comment more on, I guess I have two questions. Like the first one is the practical one, the craving that arises when someone experiences jhana, the I, like I'm experiencing jhana, I'm now at this level, I am progressing or I am not progressing.

How does one work through that or let that go? Because there's also the, I need to stop trying so hard, I need to relax. So it's hard to escape it, it's hard to escape the I when you're practicing, and it's like, I'm doing it again. I have to laugh at myself, and it feels like it's inescapable. If I feel like I am that crazy person who keeps repeating the same thing with the same outcome, I'm like the I is just... I feel stuck there. Yeah.

Yeah, it's ironic. You try to relax instead of actually relaxing. Like you need to relax rather than just actually relaxing, and that process is a matter of stopping, just taking a pause at that point. You have to have the mindfulness or the recognition enough of seeing that the mind is trying to do something. You don't try to do something. It's again going back to the great Jedi Master Yoda: there is no try, there is just do or do not, right? So if you're trying to do something in that process of trying, there's an I am going on there. There's an I am, I am trying to relax, I am trying to stop trying too hard, all of this. You have to just stop. If it helps, just say stop in the mind and allow the mind to then just dissipate all of those thoughts, and in that process experience that relaxation, and then come back to understanding how loving kindness just arises because of the right causes and conditions.

The jhanas arise because of the right causes and conditions. You are not producing the jhanas. There is effort there, but it's just a little intention of effort that you're putting in, and then watching how everything unfurls, how everything unravels. You come at it with the attitude of, let's see what happens. In your meditation practice, you're experiencing the jhana, you're experiencing the loving-kindness come about, and you're experiencing the first, second jhana. And then you see the mind identifies with it and says, I am in this jhana now, and then it has this pride in being in this jhana. When you see that, you're no longer in the jhana, actually. So when you can recognize that, let go of that, and then come back and say, just relax, you know, just relax. That, and then come back to the feeling of loving-kindness and allow things to unfurl again. If you take it from that attitude of a spectator, that attitude of just being the audience to the mind, rather than letting yourself identify with the mind and trying to do something with that effort, you're going to progress much better.

Okay, I will try. I will do a more spectator approach. Okay, yeah, just watch, just observe. Yeah. And the second question I had was trying to find, I'm not even sure how to ask this, the right balance around central pleasures, or like, when does it become attachment? I can use the example of food, right? But my understanding is, you know, the monks follow a much stricter approach to central pleasures, right? Then the Buddha didn't have the same expectations of the laity, right, around central pleasures. On the one hand, on the other hand, I think I understand how central pleasures lead to attachment and suffering in the long run anyway, right. So how those unbalanced, you know, I'm not a monk, right, but also a trap, right?

like what's the you know like i really like strawberry ice cream and you know sometimes i feel like is that really suffering to say that i like strawberry ice cream that's the only flavor that i'll have you know um you know just to use a mundane example but i like mundane examples because you can build up from yeah from that so let's let's use that example of strawberry ice cream right you really enjoy strawberry ice cream you go to the shop and you're really uh looking forward to the strawberry ice cream and uh they don't they no longer have that flavor available at that shop what's your reaction in the mind is the mind irritated by that and if the mind is irritated then you know there is some kind of craving attached to it that's what you have to recognize what are your mental reactions to when things arise want them to arise so this this wand is not the issue the issue is more about what is your reaction to that present moment

So if the present moment says that there is no ice cream available at that shop, does the mind recognize the irritation and then is able to let it go and come back to a more balanced state of mind? Or, ideally, no irritation arises, and you just say, okay, there. This is reality as it is. I'm seeing reality as it is. There's no ice cream there. Maybe I can go to a different shop or something like that. The third alternative is one craves for it. One has irritation and causes oneself mental suffering. So the best way to recognize is just to come back to seeing how you're reacting to situations.

It's not about letting go of your sensual pleasures. I mean, if your sensual pleasures are wholesome, then enjoy them. It's important to observe and understand how the mind responds and what the reactions to those situations are. The more you're able to recognize this and let the negative reactions go and replace them with a smile, replace them with relaxing, replace them with tranquility or the other enlightenment factors, or replace them with the Brahma Viharas, the more you're following the path.

Okay. So let me make sure I understood this. I think I get it. So I really, really love those strawberry ice creams, just to be clear. I don't need anything else. So I go to a shop and it has happened where, like, right. So if I start cursing the world and the gods because there's no ice cream, I would say, okay, that's obviously me creating misery for myself. You know, very, very clear. Even if there's some disappointment, I can recognize, okay, I'm having this reaction to ice cream.

If I say, well, that's one scenario. The other scenario, there's no ice cream, and I say, well, there's no ice cream here, I still want some. I'll just go to another shop. Very commonly, just go to another shop. Just wanting to keep finding it, you know, that itself is not craving. It's just like, you know, I want ice cream. There's nothing bad with strawberry ice cream. And, you know, that's not suffering. It is my reaction if I don't get it, or if I do, and if, and if, you know, maybe the next one has it and I'm like, oh hooray, I have it and I really enjoy it. So just enjoy it. But if it's like, oh my god, everything has to be strawberry and I want more and more, let me have three more scoops, then that's when I also need to step back and observe the craving, the attachment to this pleasurable experience. Yeah.

So it's not that you can't want strawberry ice cream, want your favorite foods. It's: what happens when you get it? What happens when you don't get it? That is where you need to focus. Does that help you think about it? Yeah. So now, let's just use that example a little further, so it's better illustrated. So let's say that you don't find the strawberry ice cream in the first shop. So maybe your mind doesn't get averse towards it. If it did get averse towards it, it would, you know, have hatred and anger and frustration and so on. And if you just calmly say, okay, there's no strawberry ice cream, and I'll go to the next shop.

You go to the next shop, you have the strawberry ice cream, right? And you order maybe a large amount of strawberry ice cream, and you eat it, but then you crave for it and you want more of it. You want more of it. And now you're going to cause yourself physical misery. You're going to cause yourself a sugar rush, and the physical components of that. So the craving in there is this attaching to it and wanting more of it, rather than understanding you have this in the present moment, and when it's gone, it's gone. The ice cream arose and the ice cream passed away. The craving arises when you stick to an ice cream when it has passed away, right? You say the ice cream is gone and now you want more of it. That wanting more of it after it's passed away causes the craving, clinging, being, and suffering.

Okay. But having two scoops is okay. After that, the more and more and more is done. That's the problem. Exactly. I'm very attached. I'm very attached. Okay. In all seriousness, thank you. I appreciate it, because I know it's a mundane example, but I try to make sense of the, you know, I like it, I don't like it, mind. I'm like, okay, just make sure I have a subtle understanding of what that really means for everyday practice and being a lay person. So yeah, thank you. And I will just add one more thing to it. You can make that process a meditative process. When you're eating the ice cream, notice where the mind is in relation to eating that ice cream, using the four foundations of mindfulness, not paying attention only to the flavor and how the taste arises, but paying attention to what happens in the mind and how it's moving in relation to whether it's craving for more of it, whether it's identifying with it, and so on.

So you can make it a process where you practice mindfulness in that enjoying of the ice cream as well. Okay. All right. So when I'm enjoying the ice cream, I can see where mindfulness is important, because if I'm eating the ice cream, I'm thinking, oh my God, it's finishing, I hope the shop is still open, or maybe I should go get some more. I'm not in the present moment anymore, you know, with my ice cream. Now my mind is somewhere else. Or if I'm eating my ice cream, I'm thinking, I can't believe that other shop didn't have it, they should be stocked up properly, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And instead of enjoying, you know, my ice cream scoop, my mind is somewhere else.

So even to enjoy pleasures, or just to have pleasures, I would still need some kind of mindfulness in that moment, so my mind is not running to what's coming next or what happened before. Just be, yes, you know, with yes, okay, all right. Ultimately, you want mindfulness 24/7, but of course step by step, and then eventually it just becomes automatic. The reason why you want that mindfulness is because you are exercising your mind to be able to do the 6R's process if you need to. So mindfulness is there as a way of seeing how the mind moves, seeing the arising and passing away of thoughts and things and situations in relation to whatever it is you're doing. And then seeing and recognizing if there's that craving, or aversion, as you put it, thinking about why that store did not have the ice cream, or, you know, I hope the store still has more ice cream, and all of those different thoughts. If you recognize and let go of that, come back to the experience of the ice cream, come back to seeing that the mind was responding to that flavor of the ice cream, and so on.

of the ice cream come back to seeing that the mind I was responding to that flavor of the ice cream and so on. Then that also-- now we're using the mundane example of ice cream. But if you can bring this to anything that you're doing in the way of walking, sitting, driving, writing an email, taking a shower, whatever it is, the more you do this, the easier it's going to be for you in meditation, in actual sitting meditation.

Okay, that makes sense. Thank you so much. Really, really appreciate it for clarifying things for me. Definitely. In jhana, you can't contemplate, am I correct? Yeah. First we have to understand what you mean by contemplate. That means, you know, what are the things arising in your mind? That doesn't come off... it can. It can if you're doing a jhana with open awareness, where your mind is collected but not absorbed. Then you can see anything that arises in the way of the factors of the jhanas, in the way of what enlightenment factors are present, the experience of the brahmaviharas, whatever your object of meditation is. Or if you notice that a hindrance has arisen, when the hindrance arises you're no longer in jhana. You will use the 6R process and come back, and then come back into a more jhanic state. But if you're absorbed, you won't be able to know what other states are present within jhana. If your mind is collected but not absorbed, if it's open and watching and just observing,

then it can notice that there might be thoughts in the background, and those thoughts are fine. They'll just go away on their own. Then it might notice that there is present joy. It might notice there is present tranquility. It might notice there's present, you know, a mind that is energized, and so on and so forth. So it's important to have the mind open enough to be able to notice the different states that are arising and passing away. Okay, that's one question. The other question is, I feel sometimes the big white colour things cover me, and after that I feel I am getting attached to that, or something like that, that comfort or something. After that my mind doesn't move. What should I do in that particular situation? Yeah. It sounds to me, well, when your mind doesn't move, are you able to notice other things going on, or no? Or the mind is just not doing anything at all?

When you are in that state, I'm asking you, when you're in that state where the mind isn't moving at all, are you noticing anything arising and passing away, or is the mind just still? There's nothing going on at all? You're not able to see anything else, nothing going on? So it means the mind became too absorbed at that point, because that field of light that you're experiencing, whatever it might be, the mind got attached to it and became absorbed into it. So when you notice that the mind starts to attach to it, that's when you need to recognize and let go of that attachment through the 6R process, and then come back to the experience of observing whatever your initial object of meditation is. So if you started off with compassion, and then the mind started to experience this white light or whatever it might be,

and then it stops, you need to recognize that there was attachment there. Use the 6R process and come back to compassion. If the mind goes from compassion to joy, or to equanimity, and then you notice that you were in a state of equanimity but then the mind stopped moving because it became too absorbed, you have to recognize that and come back to the equanimity. There's a difference here. There is the absorbed state, where nothing is happening because the mind is unable to see what's going on, and there is a state where nothing is happening because the mind is in a level of nothingness, the state of nothingness. That can still have certain things arising. This level of nothingness arises because the mind is no longer outwardly projected. It's no longer about things in the outside realm. It's more collected towards the internal experience.

there might be things that still arise in the way of formations and perceptions and don't and things like that so long as you can see those then you know the mind is still open of course you want to still have the perception of nothingness you don't want to have the mind so still that there's no perception of nothingness there's no perception of what's going on so if you notice this you need to you need to let go you need to uh relax you need to use the six hours you have to relax and loosen up your focus because the mind becomes too focused loosen up your attention and your awareness open it up broaden it up and then start to see how the mind starts to move back to whatever your object was

Okay, thank you Delson. Thank you so much. You're welcome. Hi, yeah, and thank you Homero for your experience sharing, which I do actually have very similar. I would like to take it further, just on the ice cream example. For example, I'm enjoying that, and I do have an experience that I'm quite enchanted by, even though we are not craving for it when we are enjoying it. The enchanted enjoyment in that moment of having it has been staying. It's not asking for more, but it has been an experience so impactful that I do actually sometimes bring it up as an imagery to start my kindness to myself. So that experience is so, so impactful, that enjoyment of that particular moment of the enchantment. Should we be more aware of that right now? Like, if I am having certain things that I really get enchanted into, that is another craving, right? Sometimes I get very enchanted into part of the nature, like it is experiencing.

Which is also similar to that, and Chandlin, that I had that experience of that very, like, ice cream feeling. I love ice cream, and I really resonate with what Homer was saying. And I'm actually, it's not... I know that my body should not, and I cannot have that sugar and sweetness as often now, so I sometimes bond it, but I still like going back to that deep enchanted feeling of that ice cream experience. So, our learning is here. I just want to make sure that I'm doing it right. Is that to be more aware of this thing when it's coming up again? This is me, that I'm liking that ice cream so much, that thing keeps coming back to me, and when I have that particular moment, if I have that chance to have that ice cream again, I'm taking

a small portion, but I enjoy it so much, I really enjoy it, but it's just that enjoy and let go. So this is the way to approach it, is that right? Because this is also my job at Daryl, and when on food particularly, and on certain things that happen, if I started to, yeah, like... So, yeah, well, thank you. You have explained it, but I just want to make sure that it's the knowing that I'm already indulging, is that right? Or ice... So, yeah. So what you have to understand, just to clarify, is that in the process of eating ice cream, let's say we use the word enjoying it, it's not about indulging in the ice cream. It's not identifying with the ice cream. When I talked about being in the present moment, it's not in reference to the flavour of the ice cream alone, in terms of how it tastes and so on, and the experience of tasting that ice cream, and the experience of scooping up the ice cream, and so on and so forth. It's in relation to how the mind is processing that.

So what you have to notice is not enjoying it in the sense of 'I am enjoying it', but in the sense of how the mind is responding in reference to it. Is it indulging in it? Is it identifying with it? Or is it just watching the body, watching the experience of tasting happening, the experience of the flavour of ice cream being experienced.

So if the indulgence is there, that indulgence is the craving. The indulgence here being in that process, the mind then starts to spiral into proliferation about that ice cream in that moment. But what you have to notice is, you are satisfying... this is not obviously a bodily need. The body doesn't need ice cream. The body started growing accustomed to the ice cream, but what you have to notice is how that want is being satisfied and how the mind becomes content because of it. But it should not be dependent upon the flavour and the taste. What you have to understand is how the mindfulness, meaning how the mind moves in relation to that experience, is it identifying? So if you are identifying and indulging, then you're getting into craving. But if you're noticing that the... is so, instead of having the words like 'I am enjoying', instead of having the words like 'I am indulgent', instead reframe your perspective. Reframe it in such a way that the mind is observing,

that there is consumption of ice cream happening, that the body is taking in the ice cream, that the flavour of ice cream has arisen, the taste of sweetness has arisen, and so on. The more you make things impersonal in that way, the easier it will be for you to see it as an impersonal process, and the more difficult it will be for the mind to personalize it and then indulge in it and then crave for it. So it's a matter of reframing your perspective on how the experience is being felt. So if the experience is being felt in such a way that 'I am experiencing it and I'm liking it and now I want more of it', then you can recognize, backtrack and let go with the 6R process. But if you're seeing that the mind is enjoying the ice cream, and in that moment there is this taste, this very pleasant taste, and so on, and then the mind moves, you see the mind starting to move from the present moment, you bring it back to the awareness of what's happening in relation to the body, your sensations,

to your mind, to the perception of that flavour, and so on. You make it into a meditation. You're making that whole process into a meditation, the 6R process, in that way. Thank you. Yeah, it's the switch of the way of looking at the scenario. It's like a taste, contact with that perception, and that consciousness of the connection of that taste, and then it goes by, like not clinging on to it. So the moment is to see that taste consciousness happening, and non-craving on to it. So that, every day, is in work, and that we are not just there to watch it. Okay. I think I kind of like get a better, like, yeah.

Thank you so much. Okay, so I'll just add to that, since you mentioned that. So it's basically like this: you're experiencing the flavor of the ice cream, right? The mind is experiencing it, or the ice cream hits the tongue. There's the contact, feeling of that ice cream being tasted, and there's a perception that this is good, this is a good flavor, this is a good taste, this is strawberry flavor or whatever it might be. That's okay in the sense of observing that. But if you notice that the perception rather is, "I really like this ice cream because it tastes good," then you know that now you're getting into identifying. So notice how the mind personalizes or doesn't personalize in relation to the things that you're doing every day. Maybe I could make it a bit practical, if I may? Yes, please. What I have been doing for years is to imagine: if I'm enjoying something, how would I respond if someone were to take it away? How would my reaction be if someone grabbed that ice cream?

Could I be glad? Oh, sure. Enjoy it too. Or are you annoyed or angry? Hey, that's my ice cream. Get away from it. Buy your own ice cream, and things like that. Whatever it may be. And then you will start to see that you might walk in nature, and that's a very nice experience. You might have a satisfied feeling that was nice, and there is no attachment. It's just enjoying the present moment, and that's a very different feeling. But I think you have to practice it a bit to really start to see the difference between pure enjoying the moment or really identifying with it. I want to keep it, I want to prolong it, I want more of it, I want it more often, things like that.

And if you start to practice it, like I said, imagining someone would instantly take it away, how would your mind respond? Just as it did, maybe. Thank you, Sylvia. That's wonderful. That's wonderful. Thank you for that. Thank you so much again, and very delicious. I think we are up to the hour, and let's share some merit. Thank you. All right.

May suffering ones be suffering free, and the fear struck fearless be. May the grieving shed all grief, and may all beings find relief. May all beings share this merit that we have thus acquired for the acquisitions of all kinds of happiness. May beings inhabiting space and earth, neighbors and Nagas, almighty power share this merit of ours. Long protect the Buddha Dispensation. Sadhu, sadhu, sadhu. Thank you, everyone. Thank you so much, Delson. Thank you very much. Thank you, Ken. Thank you, Delson and Ken. Thank you, Delson. Thank you. Thank you, everyone. Thank you. Thank you, everybody, for asking questions. Thank you for answering so nicely. Absolutely.