Upanisa Sutta and a Deep Dependent origination discussion with Delson Armstrong

So this is the Upanisa Sutta. Upanisa means vital conditions or proximate conditions, cause. And what this is referring to is the transcendental dependent origination. So yesterday we talked about dependent origination. We talked about basically how suffering arises through its causes and conditions. Now we're going to see how liberation happens through its supporting causes and conditions. So in the case of the dependent origination that we have in terms of from ignorance all the way to suffering, it's really delving into the first two noble truths. I also mentioned that when you understand the cessation of each of these links, you're seeing the third noble truth. Now when we're doing the transcendental dependent origination, we're looking at the fourth noble truth, which is the Eightfold Path.

of suffering. So let's begin. This is a translation by Bhikkhu Bodhi, I believe. It's an older translation. While staying at Savati, the exalted one said: The destruction of the cankers, monks, is for one who knows and sees, I say, not for one who does not know and does not see. The cankers, that's destruction of the taints, the asavas. Asavas are translated in different ways: cankers, like they're sores, canker sores; they are like fermentations, intoxicants, defilements, the taints, or projections. That's another one that I've translated as projections, because they project into being and into becoming, and they're like viruses.

Knowing what? Seeing what? Does the destruction of the cankers occur? So this is the question. How do you destroy the taints? Once you destroy the taints, once you destroy the asavas, that's it. What had to be done has been done. So what are the three taints that we talked about yesterday? They are the taint of sensual desire, the taint of being, and the taint of ignorance.

How does the taint of sensual desire accumulate? Every time the mind has a sensual craving and acts upon it, it feeds back a residue into the taint of sensual desire. Non-existence also, that is vibhava tanha, and being, that is bhava tanha: when that craving arises, that strengthens the next arising of dependent origination and adds a residue to the taint for desire for being, or the taint of being. And what about ignorance? Every time, at the level of feeling, the mind is non-attentive, inattentive, not paying attention, there is a lack of mindfulness, and that feeds back to the taint of ignorance. So ignorance really is lack of attention, lack of mindfulness, lack of attention of the nature of reality, which is the Four Noble Truths and the Three Characteristics.

What are the Four Noble Truths? Suffering, craving, cessation, and the path. In other words, dukkha, which is the suffering that is experienced as a result of karma; the origin of suffering, which is craving, conceit, and wrong view; and the realization of the cessation of craving, which is the realization of the cessation of suffering, dukkha nirodha. And then the path, which is the Eightfold Path.

The Eightfold Path is what leads you to Nibbana. The Eightfold Path is what takes you all the way to Arahatship. So once you let go of these three taints, there is nothing else to be done. But how does this process happen? It is a gradual training, it is a gradual process, fire process, as we'll see with the sutta. So again, the question is, knowing what, seeing what, does the destruction of the cankers occur?

Such is material form. Such is the arising of material form. Such is the passing away of material form. Such is feeling. Such is the arising of feeling. Such is the passing away of feeling. So what are we seeing here? There is another sutta, which is Digha Nikaya 14. And it's a long sutta, but in that sutta is one section which talks about Vipassi Buddha's awakening, and there in his awakening he goes through how suffering arises, and he sees each of the links of dependent origination using yonisa manasikara. He asks: what is the cause and condition for suffering? What is the cause and condition for birth? What is the cause and condition for being? What is the cause and condition for clinging, and so on and so forth.

And then once he understands that, he sees the arising. He says, the arising, the arising. Then he understands what is the cessation of suffering. With the cessation of ignorance, there is a cessation of karmic formations. With the cessation of karmic formations, there is the cessation of consciousness. With the cessation of consciousness, there is the cessation of mentality, materiality, and so on and so forth. And by doing this, he then utters: cessation, cessation.

And in seeing this, he is starting to realize and see the Four Noble Truths. Finally, once that whole process happens, he realizes craving is gone, clinging is gone, becoming is gone, birth of new action is gone, any kind of mental dukkha is gone, and ignorance is gone. And what is remaining? Formations, consciousness, mentality, materiality, sixth sense basis, contact, and feeling. Tied to it is perception. These all constitute the processes and faculties of the five aggregates. And that is why at the end, he looks at each of the five aggregates as impermanent, dukkha and not-self. And he confirms for himself that he has attained the destruction of the taints. And this is how it happens.

When you reflect on the five aggregates in this way, when your mind is very deep and goes through the process of jhanas, and understands each of the five aggregates as being possessed of these three characteristics, the mind experiences disenchantment. Experiencing disenchantment, it experiences dispassion. Experiencing dispassion, it ceases all conditions and experiences nirvana. This is the way to arahanship. For one who knows and sees this, monks, the destruction of the cankers occurs.

The knowledge of destruction with respect to destruction has a supporting cause, I say. It does not lack a supporting condition. So the knowledge of destruction with respect to destruction, in other words, there's the destruction of the taints and the knowledge that the taints have been destroyed, where many arahants say, birth is destroyed, there is no more coming to being, new being. What had to be done has been done.

And what is a supporting condition for the knowledge of destruction? So what is liberation? It says liberation, monks, also has a supporting condition, I say. It does not lack a supporting condition. So what is liberation? Liberation comes from the word vimutti or vimukti. When we say vimutti, what are we saying? We're saying the liberation from samsara.

Liberation from the cycle of death, rebirth, death, rebirth, death, rebirth. It gets so tiresome. And you see this for yourself in the meditation: rebirth, death, continuously, whether you recognize it or not, in every single moment. And there comes a point in your meditation practice where you notice the arising and passing away of these formations, and the mind starts to engage with them, then the mind starts to let go of them, then the mind starts to engage with them, then the mind starts to let go of them, then the mind starts to engage with them, then the mind starts to let go of them, then the mind starts to let go of them. You see the pattern. It just keeps going, going on and on and on and on.

This is the cycle of samsara. That's what I said. Rebirth is basically the same as insanity: doing the same thing over and over and over and over and over again, expecting a different result. Until you realize that the solution is to completely let go of the supporting conditions for rebirth, namely ignorance, craving, clinging and becoming. Meditation practice, that is the question here. It says liberation, monks, also has a supporting condition, I say, it does not lack a supporting condition. And what is the supporting condition for liberation? So what is this passion? This passion comes from the word viraga. Viraga: no passion, no color. Here, the quality of that mind that has this passion is a mind that is disinterested, uninterested, non-engaged with all experience.

Whatever arises in the mind, the mind doesn't stick to it, and nothing sticks to the mind. The mind is still, the mind is still, and there is the signless awareness of mind. As soon as your mind starts to deviate towards some object, that is to say, towards, I should say, some formation or some thought, you have lost this passion, because your mind has become interested in that.

This passion is being uninterested in everything, completely uninterested, completely unengaged with everything. That quality of mind is such that nothing can penetrate that mind. It all just slides off. Dispassion, monks, also has a supporting condition, I say. It does not lack a supporting condition. And what is the supporting condition for dispassion? So what is disenchantment? Disenchantment comes from the Pali word nibida. What does nibida mean? Revulsion, disgust.

It's not aversion. It's a different quality of mind state. Here the mind is fed up, tired. Like I told you, that process of going through, engaging with the formations, letting them go, engaging with the formations, letting go. Your mind is like, I've had enough of this. You haven't suffered enough. You just haven't suffered enough. The moment you have it, you're done with it. The moment you are like, this is enough, I've seen it, it's the same thing whether it's here or in the future or in the past, it's just the same thing over and over and over again, and eventually the mind becomes disenchanted. The example I give of this is: let's say we found out what your favorite meal is, right?

And we go into the kitchen and we whip up your favorite meal. And we say, here it is. And you're very happy and satisfied and delighted by that meal. And you eat it and you relish it and you enjoy it. And then we give you a second helping. And you're like, oh, that's great. This is wonderful. You delight in that too. And you start to eat that. And you're like, oh, this is great. I am content. But we say, here's a third helping. And now, just to be polite, you start to eat that third helping. But now you're eating slowly and mindfully, but you're forcefully mindful because you just don't want to put another spoon of food into your mouth.

And somehow you manage to get that final bite of that third helping in. And guess what? We have a fourth helping for you. At that point, you are disgusted. You're like, I have had enough. So the same thing that used to interest you before, the same thing that was a source of relishing for you, has now become a source of disgust.

So you're not disgusted enough in the meditation. You still enjoy going through that cycle of engaging with formations, engaging with thoughts, engaging with this and that. You still continue to let go, but then you go back to it, and you keep letting go, and you keep going back to it. So how do you cultivate this disenchantment? That's the question. Disenchantment, monks, also has a supporting condition, I say. It does not lack a supporting condition. And what is the supporting condition for disenchantment? vision can you see things as they actually are if you start identifying with that experience?

Unless you cultivate equanimity and upekkha. Synonymous with the knowledge and vision of things as they actually are is equanimity. Through equanimity you see things as they actually are. This is why I say that when you're getting to that stage where the mind has these transformations and you're letting go and then the mind is anticipating. It's been down this road before and it's anticipating. Oh, here is cessation. I can feel it. What happens? The mind is relishing it. The mind is enchanted. The mind is engaged.

When that happens, that means you do not have enough equanimity. So what do you do? This is what you do. When you notice that the mind is anticipating, you cycle back to radiating equanimity. So you build back the equanimity again, come back to quiet mind, go through neither perception, non-perception, go through still mind, come to the signless. You notice the mind starts to anticipate again, cycle back again to equanimity, radiate equanimity again. This is the way to do it. Because if you don't have enough equanimity, you won't be able to see things as they actually are. And you won't be able to have disenchantment and dispassion. So then the question is, how do you develop that equanimity?

By the way, here equanimity is also one of the Enlightenment factors. So in this cycle of transcendental dependent origination, what you will see is the cultivation of the Eightfold Path as well as the cultivation of the seven Enlightenment factors. You have to develop equanimity. So that equanimity is the seventh enlightenment factor. How do you develop that? And so it says, the knowledge and vision of things as they really are, monks, also has a supporting condition, I say. It does not lack a supporting condition. And what is a supporting condition for the knowledge and vision of things as they really are?

What is collectedness? It comes from the word Samadhi. What is Samadhi? Sama means balanced, composed, steady. Dhi means mind. Dhi comes from the word buddhi, which is mind. A mind that is steady. How do you have a mind that is steady? Well, you need to have that collectedness. How do you have that collectedness? So what is this happiness that it's mentioning? It is sukha.

Not the cat in the dining hall. It is comfort and happiness and ease of mind. So collectedness arises dependent upon happiness. So now we have the sixth enlightenment factor, which is collectedness. And collectedness is also part of the Eightfold Path. Samadhi, right collectedness. How do you have right collectedness? You need the other factors within each of the jhanas. You need a mind that is free of hindrances, secluded from sensual pleasures.

From there, this sukha arises, this joy and sukha. As you let go of any verbalizing thought, the mind experiences the second jhana, where there is further, deeper collectedness. And there is further, deeper joy and happiness, piti and sukha. But sukha is also dependent upon something. Sukha is not dependent upon Duke. He's not dependent upon puddles. He's not dependent upon trouble.

He is his own independent cat. But in this case, sukha is dependent upon something. What is it dependent upon? Cat food. Cat food. What is the nutriment for sukha? Happiness, monks, also has a supporting condition, I say. It does not lack a supporting condition. And what is the supporting condition for happiness? Tranquility. So what is tranquility? That is the word passaddhi. Passaddhi is another enlightenment factor.

And so in this passaddhi, how are you experiencing this passaddhi? How do you experience tranquility? Through right effort. The 6R's: what are you doing? Recognizing, so now you have mindfulness. Releasing, so you have balanced effort. And relaxing, because now after relaxing you have tranquility. So if your collectedness is not strong, what does it mean? You're not enjoying the meditation enough. If you're not enjoying the meditation enough, what does it mean? You don't have enough tranquility. So if you don't have enough, what do you do? Tranquility, monks, also has a supporting condition, I say. It does not lack a supporting condition. And what is the supporting condition for tranquility?

Gladness. What is gladness? Gladness comes from the word... Actually, this is supposed to be more like joy, but this gladness is essentially piti. This should be piti. Gladness here is actually really joy, which is piti. So if you don't have enough comfort in the body, if you don't have enough tranquility in the body, that means you need more joy. And how do you cultivate more joy? By letting go of any distractions that arise. So what is the equipment for that? Right effort.

If there's not enough tranquility, if there's not enough piti, if there's not enough sukha, if there's not enough collectedness, it means that you need to let go of whatever distraction is present in the mind. And that distraction can come in the form of different hindrances, or more physically in the form of tightness and tension in the mind or body.

So this is another enlightenment factor, joy. Now, when we do the 6R's, what are we doing? We're bringing up the enlightenment factors. Through recognizing, we're bringing up mindfulness and investigation of states. Through releasing and abandoning, we're bringing up the energy and effort, because we're balancing the effort. Through relaxing, we are bringing up the tranquility. And through re-smiling, we're bringing up the joy.

This is why Bhante would scold you and say you're not smiling enough. And that is true. I see you guys in the dining hall. All of you are just frowning. Is the food that bad? I don't see enough smiling over there. You need to keep cultivating that joy. Keep that mind light. Be like a child. Frolic around. Be happy. Look at the trees. Look at the sun. Look at the grass. Listen to the birds. Be happy where you are.

That joy that you cultivate. So how do you cultivate that joy? How do you cultivate that piti? Gladness, in this case joy, that's okay. Joy, monks, also has a supporting condition, I say. It does not lack a supporting condition. And what is the supporting condition for joy? Gladness should be the reply. So what is gladness? Gladness is pamoja. What is pamoja?

Pamoja is happiness born of the Dhamma. How is that experienced? It's experienced as relief from suffering. It's experienced as relief from finding the true Dhamma. It's experienced as relief from the hindrances. In other words, every time you 6R, you experience relief. So when you experience that relief, there is joy that naturally arises. So how do you experience that pamoja, that gladness?

Gladness, monks, also has a supporting condition, I say. It does not lack a supporting condition. And what is a supporting condition for gladness? Faith should be the reply. Faith, saddha. Now, faith is also interchangeable or used in conjunction with virtue. So, when we talk about virtue, that is sila. There is a group of suttas in the Anguttara Nikaya: Anguttara Nikaya 10.1, 10.2, 10.3, 10.4, and 10.5. Each of these talks about where when you develop virtue, when you have virtuous behavior, you have what is known as non-regret. When you have non-regret, then you have relief or pamoja. When you have that, then you have the rest of the sequence.

So what is that faith that we're talking about? Initially, as a beginner, when you start with this practice, you have some level of openness to try out the practice. And you say, let me try this out and see how it works. And so that experimentation, that ability to say, let me try this and see, that is the first level of faith. Eventually, you don't know it initially, you go through these different path factors. You go through these different factors, right? So what are you doing with faith?

With faith, you are cultivating right view. By letting go and experiencing pamoja, you're cultivating right intention. Through virtue born of that faith, you're cultivating right speech, right action, and right livelihood. Then you're ready for practice when you use the 6R's to experience joy and relief and so on. And you do that by being mindful. And so that mindfulness is the other path factor, right mindfulness, as well as the enlightenment factor of mindfulness. So mindfulness leads to investigation of states, which leads to energy, which leads to joy, which leads to tranquility, which leads to collectedness, which leads to equanimity, which leads to disenchantment, which leads to dispassion, which leads to liberation. In the same way with right view, which is you start to cultivate what is the right view through faith.

You start to study the Dhamma. You start to listen to the Dhamma talk. And you start to cultivate the faith. You start to cultivate the pamoja. You have this gladness in the Dhamma when you listen to a Dhamma talk. When you have that, when you take the precepts, when you take refuge, and then you go to meditate, immediately that pamoja happens. And from that pamoja, it is easy for that joy to arise. is established, and the right intention is cultivated, and then by keeping the precepts, by having virtuous behavior, right speech, right action, and right livelihood are cultivated. So all of this works in tandem, not only sequentially, but also in terms of doing one thing, it has an effect on another, and all the rest of it.

This is the beauty of the Dhamma. Everything else takes care of itself. So that faith, you go through this process and you experience one level of liberation. You see for yourself how this process works. You cultivate the path factors. You cultivate the jhanas. You go through the cessation of formations. You experience Nibbana. And then as a result, you understand deeper that this is an impersonal process. links of dependent origination, or getting a deeper understanding of that. And therefore, you develop what is known as experiential confidence in the Buddha, Dhamma, and Sangha.

And having this, you also have a desire, a wholesome desire, to keep the precepts all the time, because now you understand the value of keeping the precepts. This is really the definition of a stream enterer. One who has experiential confidence in the Buddha, in the Dhamma, and in the Sangha, and upholds virtuous behavior. And as a result of that, also sees the belief in the personal self and lets go of it. Sees the clinging to rites and rituals and lets go of it. So the breaking of these first three fetters leads you to stream entry with fruit. The entry into the path is cultivating experiential confidence in the Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha.

And keeping your precepts. And then when you really truly understand this whole process, you let go of a belief in a personal self. What does that mean when you let go of a belief in a personal self? The mind still has a self-image. It still has this property of holding on to things as me, mine, or myself, because it's so deeply ingrained.

And that is conceit. That is mana. That conceit says, this is mine, this is mine, this is me, this is myself. But in terms of an intellectual understanding born of experience, that indeed this is an impersonal process. That is letting go of the sakkaya ditthi. That is letting go of the belief in a personal self. Then you practice further and further and further until you let go of mana completely, and now you let go of any sort of I, me, or myself in relation to anything that is arising.

So you have that, and you realize that rites and rituals are not going to take you to nirvana. So why cling to those? That doesn't mean you stop chanting. That doesn't mean you stop lighting candles or lighting lamps. But you do it, and it brings pramoja. It brings this sense of happiness. You take that, and then you go and meditate. And that's fine.

But there's no clinging to these rites and rituals. But how do you develop this faith in the first place? How do you come to the Dhamma in the first place? How do you make the effort, which is the other enlightenment factor, right? That leads to joy and tranquility and so on. that? Well, here's the answer. Faith, monks, also has a supporting condition, I say. It does not lack a supporting condition. And what is the supporting condition for faith?

That's why I say, some people haven't suffered enough. Until you suffer enough and say, there has to be a way out of this, you cannot come to faith. You cannot come to the openness to experience the Dhamma. Suffering has two results. Suffering can result in further confusion, where a person uses sensual pleasures to numb out that suffering. They get addicted to alcohol, addicted to television, addicted to junk food or food in general, addicted to drugs and other intoxicants. And what do they do? They dull their mind, their faculties, and it leads to further and further confusion.

And so they get into this loop, this terrible loop of suffering and numbing the suffering, suffering and numbing the suffering. And eventually they say there has to be another way out. And that other way out is searching for a direct path out of suffering. Buddha, and subsequent to that, what did people do? They went forth from the home life into the homeless life. They became wonderers. They went into the forest. They went to monasteries. They went to temples in search of who can say a word or two about the cessation of suffering.

Now it's much easier. You just do a Google search. What is the way out of suffering? Dhammasukra meditation center. So you come here, and what do you do? You have faith. You have faith that perhaps this is the way. And you try it out for yourself. You have the openness to try it out for yourself. And then you cultivate in the morning the precepts.

You take the precepts, you take the refuges, you read the Dhammapada verses, and so on and so forth. And that creates pramoja in your mind. And through that pramoja, you come and sit, and you make the right effort to let go of hindrances, and you experience relief, and then joy as a result. You experience sukha as a result. You experience tranquility as a result. And then you experience collectedness. And then you experience equanimity. And then you experience disenchantment. And then you experience dispassion. And before you know it, when you least expect it, your mind ceases from one or more of the fetters. And then what do you do? Rinse and repeat. Do the same thing over and over again until you attain arahatship, until there's nothing left to 6Rs.

It's that simple. So we'll just briefly go through the rest of that series. So suffering, monks, also has a supporting condition, I say. It does not lack a supporting condition. And what is the supporting condition for suffering? So what is birth? That birth is jati. So we've talked about that yesterday, but we'll briefly cover it so there's a better understanding of it. So jati also means classification. People's, let's say, valor or their worth, or whatever it might be, was determined by the class of society that they were born into.

And you still see that in some parts of India, not a lot now, especially in the urbanized areas, but in some parts of India, in villages, there's a lot of ignorance about that, but not to the extent that it was long ago. Where, you know, if you were born in a certain caste, whether you were a Brahmin or a Kshatriya or a Vaishya or a Shudra, if you're born into that family, then you are defined as that. But the Buddha redefined that, and he said, beings are known by their actions alone and nothing else. So if your actions, that's where we're talking about birth of action, what kind of actions do you produce? What kind of mental actions do you produce?

What kind of intentions do you have? You are known by the intentions that you have in mind. If you have more wholesome intentions, you become more wholesome. If you have more unwholesome intentions, you become more unwholesome. So this is another way of understanding birth, birth of action, birth of karma. And what is the supporting condition for birth? So what are habitual tendencies? That comes from the word bhava. What does bhava mean? It means to become, existence, to create something.

This is where the sense of self is most cooked up in. So, habitual tendencies in your mind come from prior cultivation of those reactions to the same situations that you're met with. You choose from these choices of habitual reactions, and your mind makes an almost automatic inclination to make one certain kind of choice, because that's what it's always been doing. And so it cultivates a type of existence in the mind. If you are more forgiving, if you're more compassionate, if you're more generous, if you're more grateful, if you're more patient and forbearing, if you are more truthful, and so on and so forth, then you have the qualities of a deva, and your mind becomes like a deva's, and your existence also becomes like a deva's. Those who cultivate generosity and patience and loving kindness and compassion are always amazing, even if things are not going their way, even if they're met with resistance, because they're always happy. And whatever they want comes to them, because they're like devas in that sense.

And this is the understanding: the cultivation of these paramis leads to perfections that can lead to certain experiences. For example, if you develop and cultivate sacca all the time, then eventually what you say happens. That is the power of sacca. That is the power of being honest all the time. If you are always truthful, if you are precise with your words, if you don't indulge in gossip and slander, then after a certain period of time, whatever comes out of your mouth is always the truth.

It's almost like you manifest whatever it is that you say. Likewise for any of these paramis. When you have loving kindness, and perfect loving kindness to its utmost, everybody around you is loving and kind. Everybody around you is appreciative. Everybody around you is smiling and laughing. And those people who are not, they either get out of your way and go somewhere else, or they are imbued with that loving kindness and change.

This happens all the time. Same with compassion, same with mudita, same with equanimity. If you start to develop and cultivate these mindsets, that will be your life, that will be your bhava. Likewise, if you develop anger, if you develop hatred, if you develop jealousy, if you develop breaking precepts, you start to become more of a lower being, or you start to get into states of existence in this particular realm or in this particular life, where you're met with challenges and difficulties and you're unable to deal with those difficulties because your mind is always scattered and agitated. It can't deal with it. Somebody says something bad about you, your mind becomes aggravated and it wants to do something about it.

Whereas if you had forbearance and patience, it would be no big deal to you. But because you haven't practiced those, because you break the precepts, because you have cultivated certain mental defilements and corruptions of the mind, your psychological state is like a hellish being or a hungry ghost or more animalistic in nature. And then finally, when you start to cultivate jhana, when you start to cultivate the arupa states, you can actually feel that in every moment.

You know, when we talk about walking in jhana, it's called celestial walking. What about celestial eating? What about celestial showering? What about celestial driving? What about celestial whatever it is? Why not be able to cultivate jhana with the experience and factors of jhanas in everything that you're doing? Likewise with the rupa states. So habitual tendencies should be the reply. So what is the supporting condition for habitual tendencies? So clinging, upadana. There are the four types of clinging that we discussed at length yesterday: the clinging to sensual pleasures, the clinging to views, the clinging to rites and rituals, and the clinging to self-views. And what is clinging in essence? It is rationalizing why it is you say you like something or you don't like something, or you identify with.

It's the process through which you make associations in the mind. Trauma, and they associate certain experiences or certain sensual experiences with that trauma. And every time they have that sensual experience, it triggers that PTSD. So by understanding this, you can start to unravel that and let go of it by using the 6Rs. What is the supporting condition for clinging?

So what is craving? We talked about that yesterday as well. Craving is tanha, thirst. Craving for sensual pleasures, craving for existence, and craving for non-existence. That is kamatanha, bhavatanha, vibhavatanha. What is kamatanha? You see something, you hear something, you smell something, you taste something, and you say, "I want to own it." That sense of ownership that you have.

We don't really own anything in this world. It's all concepts at the end of the day. The moment you say that you own something, now you create stinginess in the mind. Stinginess, macchariya. What is stinginess? Space I have, in terms of the food and resources I have, in terms of the support that I get, or in terms of even the Dhamma. So when you have craving for sensual pleasures, you also have a sense of acquisition. I have to acquire this. You seek out things and you want to acquire them. As soon as you acquire these things, you have a sense of ownership. Once you have the sense of ownership, that leads to stinginess and protection, or protectiveness.

When you have that and covetousness, then that can lead to further clinging, and that can lead to taking up of the stick and sword, because you're protecting what you think is yours, what you think is me, mine or myself. So you have to let go of the sense of ownership, not in terms of giving away your clothing, giving away your house and all of these things. That's not what it's saying, although it could be. What it's saying is right intention, cultivation of right intention. Nekkhamma, renunciation.

Renunciation of what? Renunciation of adding a sense of this is me, this is mine, this is myself to any experience, to any so-called possession. Anything and everything. So sensual craving is one. Craving for existence. When we talk about craving for existence, what does that mean? Craving for a certain type of experience. I want to be a millionaire, or I want to be the best meditator, or I want to be the president of this country, or I want to do so and so, whatever it is. Craving for existence.

What is craving for non-existence? The vibhava tanha. Craving for non-existence is, I don't want to be here. I don't want to do this. I don't want to do that. It's just deflecting everything. Complete aversion towards everything. As I said yesterday, the ultimate craving for non-existence is wanting suicide. Wanting to kill yourself. That also comes from ignorance. Because the mind says, all of this is just too overwhelming for me, the sense of me, mine or myself. And if I end all of it, then myself will feel relief.

But that is not what happens. What is the supporting condition for craving? Feeling is vedana. What is vedana? Vedana means to know something. Vedana means to feel something, to experience something. And there are different kinds of experiences dependent upon the six sense bases. And there are different qualities of feeling. Pleasant feeling, painful feeling, neutral feeling. Feeling in the past, feeling in the present, feeling in the future. Feeling that is near, feeling that is far. Feeling of yourself and feeling of others. All feeling is not me, not mine. It is just an experience. That's all it is.

What you're doing in the meditation is just an experience. There is no meditator here. There is just a meditation. When you see that, just that is the end of suffering. Let go of the need to possess cessation, let go of the need to explore and experience, chasing different kinds of experiences. Cessation also is a concept. Nibbana also is a concept, because Nibbana you have built up in this mind. What does it mean to cease? What does it mean to have Nibbana? Yes, the sutta has explained this is what cessation is, this is what Nibbana is, but it's only pointing out to the experience.

It's not the experience itself. It's like the finger pointing to the moon, and everybody is looking at the finger, forgetting about the moon. said it. He said, the word is one thing and the experience is the other. The mind takes that as an experience and says, I want that, because it identifies with that experience.

But all experience is conditioned by our six sense bases. Yesterday I talked about this. I said that you can only experience the world through these six sense bases. There's so much more out there in the world. What you think is your reality is nothing more than the matrix of the six sense bases. That's it. That's all you know. That's all you can experience. But it isn't reality.

When the six sense bases cease, when all feeling ceases, when all perception ceases, when all conditions cease, then the mind touches reality, which is Nibbana. The mind makes contact with Nibbana. What is the supporting condition for feeling? What is contact? In Sanskrit, what does it mean, sparsha? To touch, to make contact with, to impact, sensory impact, sensory impingement.

When you see dependent origination in this way, when you see all of samsara is essentially just waves and vibrations. That's what it is. Samsara is basically all different kinds of vibrations making contact. Different levels and layers of karma making contact. The vibrations of electromagnetic frequencies makes contact with the eye, and there is color and form that the mind interprets.

The vibrations of pressure in the air, in the atmosphere, are taken in by the ears and interpreted as sound and noise. The molecules vibrate at a certain rate to either be solid or gaseous, liquid or gaseous. And so when certain molecules hit the olfactory bulb, there's an interpretation of that being fragrant or smelly. With the taste buds, that is interpreted as a certain kind of taste. This is salty. This is sweet. This is bitter. Or whatever it might be.

When there is some kind of pressure in the air that makes impact on the skin, the nervous system takes that and interprets it as some kind of experience. Somebody is pinching you. Somebody is slapping you. You're feeling hot. It's feeling cold. It feels windy. Or internally, I have a stomach ache. My back is paining. My foot is paining.

Or whatever the experience is. All of these are just vibrations. Ultimately, if you see reality, it's all made up of subatomic structures that are vibrating at different frequencies. Yes, exactly. So the question is, is it valid to say that there is no pre-existing sense basis, but it's the mind that creates it? Absolutely. That's right. And that's why our consciousness, the consciousness that we talk about as attention, goes to one of these six sense bases. If you're paying more attention to what's going on here, you might not be paying attention to what you're hearing.

So wherever the mind goes in terms of its attention, there that sense base becomes active through its consciousness, and there is an experience there. And you can see this when, for example, if you're watching a movie, you might be watching that movie for about 20 minutes, but your mind is somewhere else and you're thinking about something, and you've missed like 20 minutes of the movie. It's like, what happened there? Who's this guy? When did he come up? Wait, how did she end up with him? You seemed to be watching the movie, but really you weren't. Your attention was not there.

So this is contact, made up of these three: sense base, sense object, and attention, or consciousness. There's a little bit of a different way that you could look at it. It's the same way, but when you hear something, your mind, an eye arises. Yeah. When you see something, another eye arises. And our eye here passes away and now all of a sudden new eyes come up. There's no eye that's going over looking. That's right.

That's right. That's the main, oh yeah, the eye is looking. No, your eye is formed. The moment that sound forms, boom, and the condition arises. Right. Yes. And I'm glad you brought that up, because again it goes back to the Bahiya Sutta. The context behind the Bahiya Sutta is this. Bahiya was somebody who read and understood the Upanishads. And the Upanishads say that there is this being, this Atma, that is the hearer behind the ears, that is the seer behind the eyes, that is the one who smells behind the nose, the one who is the experiencer behind the experience. That.

And that is why he gave him those instructions: that in the hearing, in the seeing, there is only the seeing. In the hearing, there is only the heard. In the sensing, there is only the sense. In the cognizing, there is only the cognized. Because that is exactly it. When there is one level of attention here, there is an I, a sense of self that arises there. But when that disappears, so too does that sense of self. And then when you pay attention to what it is that you are feeling in the body, that's another I that arises there. But if you let go and understand truly that this I, this sense of me, mine, or myself, is dependent on the mind taking that experience personally, and you let go of that, and you unclutch from that, then that is the cessation of suffering.

That is bliss, true relief in every moment. But guess what happens? You experience that for a few moments, and then you say, but I, and then you forget all about it. And that's the ignorance. What is a supporting condition for contact? The six-fold base. Six-fold base is the ears, the eyes, the nose, the tongue, the body, and the mind. It's through these six sense bases that we receive all of those vibrations, all of that information.

But in reality, these six sense bases, as we were just saying earlier, are made up by mind. We can look at reality in different ways. Reality is made up of mind and it's made up of matter. But how do you know it's made up of matter? That's another concept. The eye is one thing, the ear is one thing. But in reality, the eye continues to change all the time. The ear faculty continues to change all the time.

All of these sense bases start to change depending upon levels of contact that happen. The decline of life, the decline of energy, is due to overindulgence through these six sense bases. The more the eyes are assaulted, really that's what it is, by color and form. The ears are assaulted by sounds. The nose is assaulted by odors. The tongue is assaulted by flavors. The body is assaulted by tangibles. The mind is assaulted by thoughts, by mind objects.

The more the mind indulges in these things, the more dull these sense bases become, essentially. That's why in cessation of perception, feeling, and consciousness, it's said that his faculties are clear. In every moment, these sense bases are just like being assaulted by all of these different vibrations, this traffic of vibrations. And sometimes there's a traffic jam where the mind is just overwhelmed by all of this.

But in cessation, it's like the pandemic. There's no traffic at all. All the streets are empty. Clear. What is the supporting condition for the six-fold sense base? Mentality is feeling, perception, intention, contact, and attention. Materiality is the earth element, the water element, the air element, the fire element, which makes up this material form, and the air, and all that you see and don't see as well.

All of this is material form, which is what gives shape to that materiality, that conceptualizes that materiality. The feeling and the perception allow you to feel and perceive the intention through which formations flow, the contact through which you have feeling and perception, and through which you have the processing of contact, and the attention through which your mind flows, through which consciousness flows.

So what is mentality? Mentality can be understood as the brain. It could be understood as the nervous system. But there's also mentality beyond that. Because when somebody sends out waves of loving kindness from one end of the earth to the other, there are instances where that person has felt it. So this mind that we talk about, the mentality that we talk about, with levels and layers of mind.

That is why even in the arupa states, mentality continues. There won't be any materiality, but there is still mind. Arupa, because there is no materiality. But there is still nama. There is still name. There is still mind. There is still mentality. It's the same thing that happens when you're experiencing meditation. When you go into the arupa states, you are now at the level of mind.

At a certain point, you have no awareness of what's happening in the body. You go so deep in the still mind, in the signless. It's so subtle. It's so profound. It's so relieving to be disconnected from all physicality and go just into mind. That is mentality as well. And what is the supporting condition for mentality, materiality? Consciousness. What is consciousness? Vinnana. We talked about this earlier, yesterday. Vinnana. Divided awarenesses. Divided by the sixth sense basis.

Consciousness in terms of the Gandhava, which gives life to the nama-rupa. Vinnana, which gives the rebirth-linking consciousness from one life to the next life. All of these are causes and conditions for the creation and the support, the maintenance, and the growth of nama-rupa, of mentality-materiality. Without consciousness, there is no mentality-materiality. To flow, it needs a medium, which is mentality-materiality.

So these are interdependent. And what is the supporting condition for consciousness? So what are formations? Formations are sankharas. What are sankharas? Sankharas are threefold. There are other kinds of sankharas also. Ayu sankhara has to do with the telomeres. It's the support for how long the body continues, and so on. But formations here, when we talk about sankharas, are mental sankharas, verbal sankharas, and bodily sankharas. Mental sankharas allow you to feel and perceive. That's why we say, feeling and perception through any of the physical sense bases ultimately takes root in the mind. It is mind that experiences all of these things or interprets the experience of all of these things. That's why mental formations allow you to feel and perceive.

Verbal formations allow you to think about something and then express it. Tree in this, in the making of contact between the apple tree and the eyes, and the eye consciousness, there arises the seeing of the apple tree. So the mental formations are there, but then you think and say, that is an apple tree. Those are the verbal formations that allow you to say, that is an apple tree. And then the bodily formations. The bodily formations are rooted in the processes of inhalation and exhalation and other bodily experiences. Like, for example, you make the intention to move. There's the shade under the apple tree on a hot sunny day. You see that, and you have the intention to move. Your bodily formations allow you to do that: to move, to inhale, to exhale, and so on. Then the formations are also karmic in nature, and that's why we can call them karmic formations. The processing of karma flows through consciousness, mentality, materiality, to be experienced at the six-fold base as contact, feeling, and perception.

That is all part of old karma. New karma is created through the processes of craving, clinging, and becoming, and experienced as birth of new karma, as suffering, as dukkha. So the formations allow you to do all of these things. The moment the formations are uprooted from any greed, hatred, and delusion, now they are said to be pure formations.

Pure in the sense that all they do in terms of their functionality is the processing of previous karma. That's it. They don't have any wrong views in them. They don't have any ignorance in them. They don't allow the mind to become anything. Formations, monks, also have a supporting condition, I say. They do not lack a supporting condition. And what is the supporting condition for formations?

So what is ignorance? Ignorance is avija, of knowledge. Knowledge of what? Knowledge of the Four Noble Truths. Ignorance is also understood practically as lack of mindfulness, not being mindful. Every time you do not have proper attention at the level of feeling, every time you do not have mindfulness at the level of feeling, every time your mindfulness is muddled, it strengthens that ignorance. But the moment you see the experience for what it actually is, this is not me, this is not mine, this is not myself, your mind whittles away at that ignorance bit by bit.

And of course, liberation is a supporting condition for the knowledge of the destruction of the cankers. Just as, monks, when rain descends heavily upon some mountaintop, the water flows down along with the slope and fills the clefts, gullies, and creeks. These being filled, fill up the pools. These being filled, fill up the ponds. These being filled, fill up the streams. These being filled, fill up the rivers. And the rivers being filled, fill up the great ocean. This is a very important image, because what it's saying is that dependent origination is not only linear, in terms of it has certain conditions that lead to other conditions, but it leaves its energy signature. In other words, you find ignorance within formations.

You find formations within consciousness. You find consciousness within nama-rupa. You find nama-rupa within the six-fold base. You find the six-fold base within feeling. You find feeling within craving. You find craving within clinging. You find clinging within being. You find being within birth. You find birth within suffering. In other words, they leave a momentum, a karmic momentum, that goes on.

And not only that, it is also feedback loop systems. The contact gives rise to feeling, but it also gives rise to certain formations that allow you to feel and perceive, as well as to verbalize or to do a bodily action. The craving feeds back residuals to the taint of sensual craving. The lack of mindfulness feeds back to the ignorance of ignorance, the bhava, and acting upon that bhava leads to residuals within the taint of bhava, within the taint of being. So this is the wonderful nature of dependent origination. We should say, when Ananda told the Buddha how simple, how easy it is, this dependent origination, the Buddha said, "Do not say so, Ananda. Do not say so."

Tranquility is a supporting condition for? supporting condition for. Happiness is a supporting condition for. Collectedness is a supporting condition for. The knowledge and vision of things as they really are is a supporting condition for. Disenchantment is a supporting condition for. Dispassion is a supporting condition for. Liberation is a supporting condition for. So the rest of that is going to show you the enlightened factors, the Four Noble Truths, and the Eightfold Path.

Any questions? Yeah. Rahul. How did you verify this? Because every time you describe it as any other thing, it seems like you're looking at the same image, but you're looking at it in 4K. And I'm looking at it in black and white, grainy pictures. I'm curious how you were able to see the feedback. Yoniso manasikara. Attention rooted in reality. Paying attention to the links of dependent origination when they arise, and then paying attention to how they arise, in what ways they arise, what are the different facets in which they arise, and what are the feedback loop systems. Essentially, lots and lots and lots of practice. Both. Both.

See, by paying attention with yoniso manasikara at what is going on in every moment and understanding dependent origination and reflecting on that, that then will translate into a meditation practice where eventually you see dependent origination in different dimensions. Forwards and backwards, backwards and forwards, sideways and upside down, and in all ways possible. But that only happens because you are being very, very attentive to: oh, this is where the contact is. This is where feeling is. This is how the craving arises. And then going back: this is how nama-rupa is. This is how the sixth sense bases are.

And eventually, the afterglow of those experiences brings up a rain of insight. It's like a cloud of dhamma, dhamma megha, which just rains down all of these insights. And your mind just makes all these connections of what happens. And then you verify for yourself by looking back again. And then when you start to see one aspect of the Dhamma, everything else just comes together. Consistent practice and really proper attention to every moment as it arises. Impressive, and that's why he is the Buddha.

He is the Sammasambuddha, the Tathagata. What does the Tathagata mean? Thus come, thus gone. He has gone to the limits or he has come to the Dhamma. He has seen for himself and by doing that he has opened up the clearing and for all of us to walk that path, to come to that same realization. I kind of wanted to expand on Ro's question. From maybe just like the eyeful space, I guess maybe? Start there. When you move around in the world, are you experiencing reality in a different way? Do you feel a sense of, if you're looking at grass or walking on the earth, are you seeing things like shift or move?

Or are you seeing conscious components of things as you move around in the world? Some kind of an experience, and they're able to walk around in the world. It really depends upon their faculties, but when they experience reality, so the question is basically, can you, if you just say it in one statement, kind of like constituent parts of reality of moving, fluxing, and forming as you move around? Yeah, so somebody who, for taking the example of the eye base, if somebody has a certain experience and is then able to look at the world, how do they experience it? So that's the question. So the idea here is,

When somebody has an experience, it always depends upon their faculties and depends upon what level or to what degree they have cultivated those faculties. So it can happen automatically or it can happen through consistent practice. But it's like changing the channels. Like when you change the channels, you see one episode of something, you see another episode of another thing.

The same way, you're changing the channels of the eye base. You can see the world the way everyone else sees it, or you can see the constituents, as you said, of those, like the grass, the elements of the grass, in terms of solidity, in terms of liquidity, in terms of water. You could start to see the atomic structure. You could look at people and you could just see people there, or you could go in and see the different streams of karma that led to that person being born in that moment, who they are. It all depends upon the faculties and karma and other causes and conditions. It's pretty cool. I would say when you talk about vipassana as it's understood traditionally, it's really just the recognize step, if you think about it.

It's just noticing things. But the rest of that is to notice if craving arises and letting go of that. And by doing that, what you're seeing are the causes and conditions for that craving and letting go of that. And by doing that, your mind is going into yoniso manasikara. And by doing that, then you are starting to see dependent origination. So it's not just closely, microscopically looking at something only, because when you do that, there's craving in that too.

There's identification with that too. Not only are you recognizing it, but you're noticing if there's craving. And you can only do that through the process of right effort. That is the 6R's. Yeah, can you just give that statement again? Yeah, so the question is, you know, vipassana is usually understood as paying close attention to every moment of every experience.

And so, is that what we're doing, or is that what we can do with the 6R's, in addition to that? And so my response to that is this: what we are doing is not only we're paying close attention, because in paying close attention, that could create some level of identification and craving. But if you notice the craving arising and letting go of that using the 6R's, then you're utilizing right effort.

Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yeah, that's a good question. You mentioned that, basically your question is, I talked about the different faculties and how people could experience, depending on those faculties. So when we say yata bhuta jnana dasanam, that is the knowledge and vision of things as they are, or seeing things as they are. Oftentimes when people have a post-sociation experience, they see, or it's understood that they see, something visually in the links of dependent origination. But could it also mean that there is a level of understanding on a transcendent level? That is the question.

So the answer to that is that when people see certain things, what that is is their interpretation in their mind, which is already conditioned, of how dependent origination arises. And the seeing of reality as it actually is, is really not only the visual seeing, or it can be the visual seeing, but it is the insight that arises in terms of this is how this process works, the knowledge and vision of things as they are. The knowledge, meaning the understanding, and the vision, which is penetrating through the depths of reality and then understanding what's going on.

That can be understood through a myriad of different ways. So some people can see dependent origination as flashes. Some people see dependent origination as particles. Some people can, and I'm saying in terms of visual experience, can see dependent origination as chains or links, and different kinds of interpretations like that. Some people see the cooling down of the mind, or experience literally the cooling down. They see their entire mind and body on fire, and then it just cools down. These are all mental models or interpretations of what is going on. That's the only way the mind can actually truly understand within conditioned reality, because the knowledge and vision of things as they are are still within the realm of conditioned existence.

So can we see or can we understand yata bhuta jnana dasanam as seeing things as they become or as they arise and pass away? Definitely. Yeah. Yes. So the question is, when we talk about Nibbana, it's basically, could we say that where we unravel delusion, and we could call that Nibbana? Absolutely. So Nibbana, the word Nibbana, it means so many different things depending on so many different contexts.

There are 32 different words for Nibbana, and it all depends on how you see it. But it can be a state of mind, like the mind of a liberated being, so to speak, or it could be a verb in the sense of a process in which the mind lets go of delusion and then is unbinding. That whole process. Yeah. So the question is, how would you look at yoniso manasikara in terms of breaking down the Pali? So yoniso, yoni actually literally means the womb or the birth canal.

That is what is used in Sanskrit and in Pali to denote the reproductive system of a woman or any female being, because it is the source, it's the womb, it's the origin of creation. And manasikara, manas is mind or the heart or chitta, and kara is to do. So you're applying the mind to the origination of something.

So that means you're applying the mind to see how reality originates. In essence, seeing dependent origination. Yeah, right. Yeah, tell me in my ear later. No, no, yeah, go ahead. Dharma mega. The cloud of dharma. That's cool. Mega dharma. Mega dharma. Extreme dhamma. Optimist dhamma. Transformer. Yes? Formations, you said consistence of samsaras. Sankhara, yeah. Okay. Mental, verbal, bodily formation, and karma. Mm-hmm. That's it? That's really, and the ayu sankhara. Ayu sankhara are related to the longevity of the being. That's the telomeres, basically. Okay. Vital formations. Vital formations, yeah. Yes, and attention. Yes.

They are different. What was that statement? They are same in name but different in meaning, in the sense that the contact in mentality is like an organ, an instrument, through which the process of contact can happen as a link. Like I was saying the other day with the brain, there are different facets of the brain, like the parietal lobe and the temporal lobe, and so on, which all have different functions.

So the factors in mentality, the feeling faculty in mentality, is through which the process of the link of feeling. Likewise, the faculty of perception, intention, contact and attention. So there are faculties which are like the basis for which then feeling can arise, perception can arise, contact can arise, intention can arise, attention can arise. Yeah. That's right. The process is dependent upon causes and conditions.

They come together due to consciousness, and then from the sixth sense basis. Okay, the way we look at it is the consciousness brings together these faculties of those five within mentality and in materiality. Now, the sixth sense bases function as a result of these faculties. And by having external contact or internal contact with these sense bases, then an experience arises, which is the vedana. And tied to that, sanna, which is the perception.

And tied to that can arise an intention. Basically, you experience something, and then you decide whether you want to crave for it, or you decide, I see this as it actually is, and let go of any craving. And then the attention, of course, is that mindfulness, the attention to that experience, or to that baby. If one of them are absent, so there is no consciousness arising? Yes. Yes. Then there's no consciousness that can flow through it. So, for example, if there's no feeling, then there's no perception either, and there's no consciousness either. If there is no contact, actually, without consciousness, you can't have contact. And without contact, consciousness cannot flow.

And if there's no intention, there can be no consciousness there either, then consciousness doesn't have a directionality to flow in. Immediately, but in meditation. But the question is, who is doing this six R's? My spirit, what is the mind that is doing the six R's? It cannot be impersonal. So, this free will that says, okay, I'm not a victim of my karma, I'm not just a victim of this process, I want to change. So who is it that is... So the question is, if all of this is impersonal, who is it that is using the 6R's?

In the 6R's, there is only the 6R's. You see, the causes and conditions for the 6R's to arise, the idea that somebody is doing the 6R's or somebody realizes that there is a way out of suffering, that also is dependent upon causes and conditions. So what is it that experiences liberation? It's the mind. So it's the mind that 6R's. It's the mind that 6R's. I mean, very simply put, it is really just the mind. But the mind is not self. So can we say that the delusion is doing it until we are not deluded? That's right. The delusion is that we are 6R-ing until we realize that there is no one 6R-ing.

Yeah, you're basically you are basically letting go of you. Yeah. Yes, yes. But the feeling, perception and consciousness are always purely mental. So they are experiencing jhana. They are experiencing... So in other words, the feeling faculty experiences the feeling of the jhana. The perception faculty experiences the perception of this is what jhana you're in. The consciousness faculty is that which cognizes what is being experienced.

That's exactly it. Aggregates. That's exactly it. So in cessation, does the mentality go away? And in reality, yes. There is no contact, there is no intention, there is no attention, there is no feeling, there is no perception. Absolutely. And in fact, even materiality. I mean, in the sense that you're not experiencing materiality. Right. So the question is, can you experience a disintegration of the five aggregates in microseconds in cessation? Yes.

And it is experienced by different people depending upon their faculties. Some people experience it as like a vacuum that goes in somewhere. Some people experience some kind of like a disintegration of light. I mean, it's different ways that people experience it, yeah, the disintegration of the experience of the five aggregates in and of themselves and then cessation. Parinibbana is not the final cessation. Right. It is the total dissolution of the five aggregates without any iota of possibility of renewing. Just one more thing, I guess, you talked about the rebirth yesterday, and at the time of the rebirth, what goes to the next life, I guess, is come on, not consciousness? That's exactly it. So the question is, from one birth to the next birth, one life to the next life, what is actually being transferred?

It's not the same consciousness that is being transferred from one life to the next life. Karma, that is the formations that arise, the clinging or craving that can arise to those formations, gives rise to a new rebirth linking consciousness. That is a transference device for all the karma to go from that life to the next life, and as soon as it descends into the new nama-rupa it departs, and now a new consciousness kicks in which then passes away and arises and passes away, arises and passes away, in dependence upon the formations that have been transferred into that new nama-rupa. So the question is... Yes.

How many people are there? You got some numbers. Well, some numbers, but. Not all of them. Not all of them. I mean, I'll check back with you tomorrow. I'll find out that. You know, hell has these many, and then the Brahma loka has these many, the deva loka has these many. I'll get back to you on that. Last census? A couple of weeks ago we made a census. That's right.

It's about some number of beings in the hell realms, for example. Shall I say the number? It's a lot. Let's just say it's a lot. Because in the last two weeks, when we had the last census, there was a lot more. The question really is the number of people in the area are in Greece. Maybe thousands of years ago, and now it's 7,000 people. No. Yes, that source is karma. Exactly. Remember what you say in the morning. What is it? I am the inheritor of my karma.

Born of karma. The owner of my karma. Is my relative and is my resort. Yeah. Go ahead. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yes. Yeah. Because it's always changing and it's always dependent upon the arising passing away of karma. Yeah. Yeah. It's all energy. It is. That's exactly it. So knowing that the path is, there's no traveler, there's no one interesting to it, why is it so hard for us to really revert all of us and struggling? Because of being habituated to a certain way of being.

There's the satta sutta. In that, the question arises, is being, being, what do you mean by being? Like the satta. What is the definition of a being? And the Buddha says, insofar as whenever there is any craving and clinging in regards to one or more of the five aggregates, there is a being. So, the reason why it's so difficult is because there is clinging to one or other facets of experience as me, mine, or myself. That's really it.

Once that is unraveled, once that's let go of, then there is no becoming. There is no new being. That's it. And the thing is, the mind always thinks in concepts. And so the Dhamma is using concepts to let go of unbeneficial concepts. And ultimately, you let go of the Dhamma as well as a concept. And you are concept-free. Non-conceptual.

In ancient India, there was this simile used. It's like when you have a thorn in your foot, you take another thorn to uproot that thorn in your foot. And you throw away both thorns. Thorn, which is the Dhamma, to take out the pain from that foot, which is that thorn, which is the thorn of craving, and you discard both.

And that's why it always comes back to this. We can go to the forest ends of karma and the universe and the cosmos, but if we don't understand these two principles of what the Dhamma is all about, understanding suffering and the cessation of suffering, then all On that part, many of the suttas have very sophisticated intellectuals to understand. Many of the followers of Buddha have seen it. He was trying to align with a statement like the one you just made, versus how those four were more sophisticated intellectually well that were understood. Right. Yeah, of course. The question is, we just said that statement, it's the suffering and cessation of suffering, understanding suffering and the cessation of suffering.

That's the two things that the Buddha teaches. But then there are other suttas where it's much more sophisticated. So, really, it's about the Buddha looking into the minds of those who are more logical, more rational, or the more analytical, and satisfying that nature of the mind. So they come to this understanding of letting go of suffering. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. What are the differences and similarities between cessation, death and falling asleep? That is the question.

The answer is, cessation can be used in different contexts and different meanings. Right now when we use the word nirodha in the context of cessation of perception, feeling and consciousness, that is nirodha of perception and feeling. There is other nirodha which is dukkha nirodha, which is the third noble truth, the cessation and tanha nirodha, the cessation of craving and the cessation of suffering. Then there is the understanding of nirodha in terms of the cessation of the links of dependent origination. Nirodha, jati nirodha, bhava nirodha, and so on. And all of these nirodhas are essentially understood as Nibbana. Now, in what we talk about as cessation of perception, feeling, and consciousness, it appears that the mind and body are dead.

But now, when scientific research comes out, we can verify if that is the case or not. But the understanding within the suttas is that in death, there is no heat, and there is no vitality. And the faculties have been broken up. In cessation of perception, feeling, and consciousness, up to seven days, there is heat, and there is vitality, and the faculties are not broken up, they are just clear. They're non-functioning, but they are clear of any sensory impingements.

And in sleep, basically sleep depends on the level of sleep. Because you have core sleep, you have REM sleep, you have non-REM sleep, and you have deep sleep. So which sleep do you want to talk about? That is a sloth and torpor sleep. Yeah, that is a groggy, heavy kind of experience. When the mind touches cessation, the mind is luminous and radiant and clear and light and bright.

When one touches sloth and torpor, the mind is heavy, dense, groggy and slow. There is still sleep there. There is still that in sleep. Absolutely. Even in deep sleep, at the lowest levels of delta sleep, there is still consciousness there. There is feeling, there is perception. Yes. So if you think about dream-like states or REM sleep, it's a lot like neither perception or non-perception.

And when you go into deep sleep, if you have the awareness of deep sleep, then it's like nothingness. Just a blank. Or you can even say it's like signless. There's a question in the back. In the womb. Because when there's contact going on in the womb, they start to make intentions in terms of decisions of what they like and what they don't like.

They already start to formulate favorites. They already start to have craving and clinging in there. Whatever intention was there in that moment. Yes. And if it was aborted prior to any full development of any intention, then whatever intention was prior to the coming into being in that new fetus will then continue on in the next fetus. Yes. It will always be from one being to the next being. I think collective karma is a very unfair assessment of how things happen. Because then you're blaming the victims for being there together. But do you think that your karma leads to Godism in a bad way?

Karma are again just concepts. You're getting into the realm of concepts. It will not help you to think about these things. It's not leading to the cessation of suffering. Again, when you ask your questions, ask your questions to understand how do I let go of suffering, because all of these intellectual curiosities basically lead to further mental proliferation. We can spend, if you guys have the stamina, I have the stamina, we can go on for 16 hours if you want. Right. But how is that going to help you? Yeah, it's called concept. In reality, yeah. The danger of mental production. You have to realize that the mind is building concepts and hyper-cleaning. Asking this because I really want to know for my own self, so to speak, how do I let go of this particular suffering?

How do I let go of this or that? Now, we will probably explore karma at some point, but the Buddha has talked about there are those schools of thought that talk about everything is karma and all of that thing. Great. But then they also say it is because of this karma that this arose and so on and so forth. And the Buddha says, karma is just one aspect.

There are other aspects that are there. For example, disease. In terms of reactions in the body. In the time of the Buddha, they were talking about phlegm, bile, and... There was one more. Anyway. Probably, yeah. Mucus. And the different ways that they work together can be a cause and condition for an experience. Accidents is another one. Nobody's karma, just an accident.

Environment. Right? In terms of cloud formations and rain and this and that, nobody's karma. Just, it happens. Society. What happens in society? Right? There's all kinds of different things that are going on there, but in terms of the stuff that we've made up as a global society at this point in time, through causes and conditions. Now, you can call that karma if you want, but the Buddha differentiates it and says it is all these different factors. Karma essentially boils down to one thing: intention.

Intention and action. It's like, you're going to be born in Iron Man. Right. And what do you get fed? Biscuits and grapes. Now, was that your karma? No. To get the biscuits and grapes, but you got reborn there and the environment. That's the environment. That's the food. That's the culture. So then you're reborn again in Farmington or something.

Or something worse. But it's interesting because you start to think everything's coming about, but then you go, well, okay, then what about everything else? You get put here, and that wasn't, yeah. Buddha did say your head would explode. That's right. As a warning. That's right. Yeah. No bean soup. Any last burning questions? So what is the difference between this passion and this enchantment? quality of the mind where it remains unaffected by anything.

So it's the Teflon quality of the mind where nothing sticks. That's dispassion. Disenchantment is the beginning or the condition for that dispassion to arise. Disenchantment is where you become disgusted or just like, oh, I've had enough of this. If you don't have enough disenchantment, go back one more step, which is equanimity, by radiating equanimity and then strengthening disenchantment and dispassion. Nibhadika is something else, actually. It's like wisdom arises from...

Wisdom arises from penetrating into something. That's Nibhadika. But here, Nibidda is really the revulsion of something. Okay, let's share some merit. May suffering ones be suffering free and a fear struck fearless being. May the grieving shed all grief and may all beings find relief. May all beings share this merit that we have thus acquired for the acquisition of all kinds of happiness. May beings inhabiting space and earth, devas and nagas of mighty power share this merit of ours. May they long protect the Buddha's dispensation. Thank you.