Lightly edited transcript Filler words and caption errors removed by machine; the meaning is unchanged.
Delson explains transcendental dependent origination, the sequence running from faith grounded in suffering, through virtue, the precepts, the jhanas and equanimity, to disenchantment, dispassion, cessation, liberation and the destruction of the taints. He presents it as the path-side counterpart of the first two noble truths, a cycle that is repeated and that should be enjoyed rather than forced. The talk closes with a long question-and-answer section on the precepts, sloth and torpor, grief and dying, and karma.
Key points
- Transcendental dependent origination is the cessation side of the links, corresponding to the third and fourth noble truths, and it begins with faith grounded in suffering.
- Keeping the precepts each morning builds a moral compass that leads to non-regret, gladness in the Dhamma, piti and the first jhana.
- Relief from hindrances, tranquility and collectedness lead into the jhanas, and strong equanimity leads on to disenchantment, dispassion and cessation.
- Practice should be easy and enjoyable; if meditation feels forced, restlessness and tension show a wrong approach, and the remedy is to adjust attitude and equanimity rather than to try harder.
- Each sit should be approached with beginner's mind, since preconceived expectations and milestones can become hindrances.
Suttas in this talk
- AN 10.1, What Purpose?
- AN 10.2, Volition
- AN 10.3, Virtuous Behavior
- AN 10.4, Proximate Cause
- AN 10.5, Ānanda
- DN 14, Mahāpadānasutta
- SN 12.23, Proximate Cause
Each opens the sutta on SuttaCentral.
Themes
Dependent origination · The jhanas · Ethics and virtue · Awakening
Where this talk sits on the path
This talk belongs to a thread that runs along the whole path. It follows the thread of Dependent origination study.
Transcript
Transcendental Dependent Origination
Today we're going to be talking about transcendental dependent origination. So in the last couple of days we've been talking about what is dependent origination, and I've explained to you that really it's an elaboration of the first and second noble truths. When you see the arising of dependent origination, from ignorance all the way to suffering, that is the first and second noble truth.
When you notice the cessation of each of the links of dependent origination, that's the third and fourth noble truth. This is known as transcendental dependent origination, which is all about the path leading to the end of suffering, and also the organization or culmination, let's say, of the Eightfold Path, the understanding of the enlightenment factors and the application and so on. I have a chart which shows you the different links of transcendental dependent origination.
It says here faith, but before we go into that, we have to understand that the faith that we're talking about is dependent upon suffering. So actually, suffering is, in that sense, the first link of transcendental dependent origination. You don't come onto this path unless you've had enough suffering. If you haven't suffered enough, then what are you doing here? Right?
So the Buddha has said that suffering leads to two things. One is further confusion. That is to say, some people will have different kinds of suffering. They'll have bodily pains, they'll have mental anguish, they'll have depression, they'll experience the death of their loved ones. They'll experience illness and so on. But how do they deal with that suffering? Usually what they'll do is try to replace or numb that suffering with sensual pleasure.
So they will do things like decide that they're going to distract themselves from that suffering. Show on Netflix, or they'll have a couple of drinks, or they'll take some drugs, or do some kind of sensual pleasure, or indulge in some kind of sensual pleasure, and all that leads to is further confusion and ultimately further suffering. So they're not really coming out of that loop: suffering, confusion, suffering, confusion, suffering, confusion. But when you've had enough suffering, when you realize, okay, there must be some other way out of this suffering, that is the beginning of your path.
And this is what is understood as taking you to the search. And it's described in the suttas as where a person says, suffering. In other words, now you go on YouTube and you search meditation retreats, and then you find yourself registering for this retreat and you find yourself coming here. So you've done the search, literally done the search on YouTube.
Most people who come to the practice of TWIM, they're doing it because they've watched a video, and that video sparked their interest in spirituality, or their interest in neuroscience, or their interest in meditation, because intuitively they understand that there must be a way out of suffering. And that begins the process of faith, also known as saddha in Pali.
Open-Mindedness and Beginner's Mind
So this faith is not some kind of blind faith. For anything absolutely don't, right? See for yourself how this process works and then apply it and see if it makes sense. So nobody's asking you to blindly believe the words I say. Blindly, just read the suttas or anything like that. This is a process of experimenting, seeing for yourself what works and what doesn't work. And so the open-mindedness of, let me see if this works, and actually trying it out, not just half-heartedly trying it out, by the way, not just saying, let me check out this meditation retreat, and you know, it's all the same. Everything leads to the same thing. So I'm just here on retreat, and I'm just going to do my own thing.
I'm not going to listen to the teacher. He doesn't know what he's talking about, right? That's not the kind of experimenting and open-mindedness we're talking about. Actually do the practice, right? See for yourself and apply it. Otherwise, you're wasting your time, right? If you're coming here half-heartedly to just apply what you already know for these last ten days, just letting them go and trying out this practice and seeing for yourself, if you're not doing that then you actually don't have conviction, you don't have that open-mindedness. But if you do let go of this practice, the practices you've done before, and just say, I'm going to start fresh with a beginner's mind, right? The beginner's mind is so important, it's essential for progress on this path.
Many times, in an interview, somebody will come in and say, well, this is what I experienced in the meditation, but this is very similar to what I experienced when I applied it here in a previous meditation. So they'll bring in their previous experiences. They'll bring in what they think they know and so on and so forth. But it's actually detrimental to them. It does not help them. Mixing philosophies, mixing ideologies, mixing different kinds of things with the idea that it all leads to the same thing is ultimately taking one step back and ten steps backward.
Because you're not going to go anywhere by doing that. If you completely drop everything and have some level of implicit trust in this practice and just do it as it's been instructed to you, you will notice amazing milestones in your practice. So that open-mindedness and the willingness to try it as it's been instructed is the beginning of this so-called faith.
Virtue and the Precepts
Eventually that faith turns into conviction, born of direct vision and experience, which is born of seeing for yourself after applying this practice and experiencing for yourself the Four Noble Truths. Coming to a basic but ultimately experiential understanding of suffering and the cessation of suffering. Seeing it for yourself. When you have that open-mindedness, commit to keeping the precepts, taking and keeping the precepts. There is a series of suttas in the Anguttara Nikaya, in the Book of Tens, that starts with 10.1 all the way to 10.5, and there it has a similar sequence of this transcendental dependent origination. All that's different is instead of faith, it talks about what's known as virtue.
It starts off with virtue. So faith and virtue are intertwined. What does that mean? Virtue. Sila. Keeping your precepts. Making a commitment to take your precepts every morning. This is essential. This is non-negotiable. Because when you do this, you are uplifting your mind. See it for yourself right there and then. But it has an effect throughout the day. Because once you shift your intention to saying, I am going to keep the precepts, then your mind will make that commitment automatically. In other words, there's a temptation to tell a little white lie, or there's a temptation to maybe take this or borrow that. But immediately, because you've taken the precept in the morning, it says, is this right?
Should I be doing this? Maybe I shouldn't be doing this. This is your moral compass that allows you to know what is wholesome and unwholesome. But that compass is further strengthened by the daily commitment to keep it, the daily taking of it. As a result of doing this, what happens over time? When you start to take these precepts and you actually follow these precepts, you're going to notice that your mind has a certain level of relief.
This relief is a sense of non-regret. That's the next step in that Anguttara Nikaya text, where it talks about virtue leads to non-regret. Meaning there are no regrets. I am secure. My mind is secure in the fact that I keep the precepts. And there's another certain level of conviction that nothing untoward will happen to me because I'm keeping these precepts. If you only knew the power of keeping these precepts and what they actually mean, if you kept them for a very long time, you will see amazing things happen in your life. If you keep the first precept, what will happen is you will always be in situations that are secure and safe.
You'll never find yourself in situations where there is danger. And if there is, your path goes away from it. And this is the culmination of keeping that precept for a long time. A very long time. When you keep the second precept, people become generous towards you. Life becomes generous towards you because you don't have that covetousness that I need this or I have to get this or anything like that. Whatever you require in that moment, if you even think about it for a moment, suddenly it's there.
If you keep the third precept, what you will notice is you are content all the time. And in that contentment, there is this very secure happiness. And everything else that's given on to you is just the icing on the cake, the cherry on the top, right? You're not looking for things outwardly. Your compass is so straight that it doesn't swerve from here to there.
And your relationships with yourself and with others around you are always harmonious. You have very few misunderstandings, if at all, with people. People will always give you the benefit of the doubt. In other words, if somebody is saying something about you, people know that that's not you. If somebody's gossiping about you, people will realize, no, that can't be it. Because they have a harmonious relationship with you when you keep this third precept.
When you keep the fourth precept, this is a very powerful one, right? Abstaining from any false speech, abstaining from any harsh speech. When you keep it for a very long time and you perfect keeping this precept, what you say manifests. You will always speak the truth every single time, to the extent that whatever it is that you say will happen.
And when you keep the fifth precept, right, abstaining from indulging in any kind of intoxicant, your mind is always clear. Kind of sloth and torpor. You have an unbounded energy that is balanced all the time. Even if you haven't rested for some time and you have to go and do something, your mind is pristine all the time.
This is the power of the precepts, keeping the precepts. It's almost like you obtain certain kinds of psychic faculties when you keep these precepts for a long period of time. There was, I don't know how many of you know about the story of Bhante. If I remember correctly, he was saying that there was this man who said, you know, I want to be very wealthy. I want to be very rich. What do I do in order to be very wealthy? And Bhante says to him, keep the precepts before I actually see some effect. And Bhante says, a minimum of a hundred years.
So keep the precepts no matter what. You will see a direct effect of doing that. And one of the most profound effects of that is that your mind being very clear to let go of hindrances naturally, and so now you experience relief from hindrances, and that leads you into what is known as pamojja. Pamojja, or gladness, is the gladness of the Dhamma itself. So your conviction to say, let me try this out, let me make a commitment to keep the precepts, leads you into seeing the direct benefits of it, and you become gladdened in the Dhamma naturally. Now you have an interest, you have a zeal, you have a zest for Dhamma. You want to read Dhamma books. You want to watch Dhamma talks. You want to read the suttas. You want to attend retreats. You want to meditate for longer periods of time. That happens naturally. If you don't keep your precepts, and if you don't
Experience that relief, and you try to meditate. That's the key. You're trying to meditate. You're forcing yourself to meditate. But if you keep the precepts and actually experience relief from the hindrances, your mind naturally gravitates towards wanting to meditate. Not in the sense of forcing yourself to meditate, but in the sense of it naturally becoming quiet. Now, as a result of that, you start to experience piti. As a result of relief from that, you experience piti. So this is the beginning of seeing the first jhana. Born of seclusion. Born of letting go.
So not only is that happening, what also is happening is, since you're keeping your precepts, you're making the effort. And the reason you're making the effort is because you have investigated for yourself what is wholesome and unwholesome. Born of mindfulness. So in other words, naturally you are bringing up the enlightenment factors. Now you have brought up mindfulness. You are becoming more alert. You're becoming more attentive of how your mind's attention moves from one object to the other. You're becoming more clear in your mind. You're becoming more aware of what it is that you're doing in whatever it is that you're doing. When you're eating, you're aware of your eating. When you're walking, you're aware that you're walking.
When you're speaking, you're aware that you're speaking. When you're driving, you're aware you're driving. Your mind isn't going out somewhere. It's not daydreaming. It's not going off into la-la land. It's here right now in the present moment, towards what is wholesome and unwholesome. This is what is meant by dhamma vichaya. So this is what's happening. You see the direct benefit of keeping the precepts, keeping sila. And so now you have the energy to meditate.
The virya, the strength, the power, the ability to meditate. As a result of which you start to experience piti. That's the next enlightenment factor. Now, what else are you doing? You're also bringing up the Eightfold Path. You've come to a point where you realize there must be another way out of suffering. This realization is the beginning of mundane right view: that my actions have certain kinds of consequences.
That there must be another way out of suffering. Then just keep doing the same thing over and over again. And then you have the intention to let go. Then you have the intention to cultivate compassion, to cultivate loving kindness. This is all part of right intention. And then by keeping the precepts, what are you doing? Right speech, right action, right livelihood. Then making the effort to meditate and let go of hindrances, what are you doing? Effort, as a result of which you have right mindfulness, understanding what is going on in your mind in every moment.
Tranquility and the Jhanas
From that piti, then you experience tranquility, passaddhi. So what is that tranquility? That tranquility is born of letting go, letting go of the hindrances. When you experience the benefits of meditation, one of the big benefits you experience is a mind that is tranquil and a body that is tranquil. You have less agitation in your body. You have more stability, right? You're able to sit for longer periods of time without moving around. There's less pain in the back, less pain in the legs. What are you doing by tranquilizing? You're letting go of bodily formations. You're stilling bodily formations. When you're absolutely still, and as your mind starts to get into the second jhana, what happens? You stabilize in your object of meditation, and now you're experiencing the stilling of any verbal formations that could lead to thinking and reflecting and analysis. Rather, you are just there. So this is the tranquility that you experience. As a result of that tranquility, you experience the third jhana. So this is the beginning of the third jhana, and then the full-blown third jhana has what's known as sukha. That's the main highlight. That is translated here as happiness
but I like to translate it as comfort. There's a sense of ease, there's a sense of comfort in the body. If you've ever had the luxury of stepping into a warm bathtub and just letting your whole body relax, that relief that you experience from that, that is sukha. It's a bodily experience of comfort. And there is contentment there.
Which means now the mind isn't looking outward for this or that. It is content within itself. It is happy just because. There is no just because even. It's just happy. It's a baseless, causeless happiness, independent of anything outside of itself. True happiness. Unconditioned happiness. Happiness not born of anything. Just content. Now, while you're here, your mind becomes very collected.
And as a result of being collected, your mind experiences stability, samadhi. Remember when we talked about samadhi? What is samadhi? Total even-mindedness. Complete balance in the mind. Now you have unification of mind, ekaggata. The mind remains steady. Mental collectedness and composure remain around its object of meditation with ease. Naturally, without very little effort required. So now, what has happened up until this point?
Up until this point, what you've experienced is: first you've experienced faith, and you have the mindfulness to realize that if I keep the precepts, it is of great benefit. So you make that effort, born of Dhamma vichaya, as a result of which you experience joy. You experience pamojja, then you experience joy. And then you experience tranquility. That's the next enlightenment factor that you experience, and tied to that is the sukha. So now, at this point, when you're experiencing collectedness as the link, what you're experiencing is all four jhanas having been fully developed. At that point, your mind remains completely undisturbed.
Even if there are thoughts coming in your mental vision, you have such pure mindfulness that it's just okay. It just goes right through and doesn't allow the mind to go in that direction. It remains steady. It remains stable. But it's not one-pointed. It's not focused to the point that it's not able to see other things. So the collectedness here is very open, so that if hindrances do come up, the mind can just naturally look at it, let go of it, and come back.
Equanimity and Seeing Things as They Are
And at this point, it is as easy as that. There's very little effort needed to be, I have to recognize, I have to relax, I have to re-smile, I have to return. It just happens in a flow. Now, from this collectedness, there is what is known as knowledge and vision of things as they are, yathabhuta nanadassana. Yathabhuta means things as they actually are. Nana means knowledge. Dassana means vision. So what does that mean? Knowledge and vision of things as they actually are. It means you're seeing things, you're seeing reality for what it actually is, starting to experience the understanding of the three characteristics. But this is due to your mindfulness, this is due to your ability to be equanimous. So yathabhuta nanadassana is just a very fancy synonym for upekkha, because what is upekkha? What is equanimity?
Equanimity is the ability to see things as they actually are without getting affected one way or the other. If it's an unpleasant feeling, the mind doesn't gravitate against it. It doesn't say, I don't like it. It just says, okay, there's an unpleasant feeling here. If it's a pleasant feeling, the mind doesn't say, oh, that's wonderful, I want more of that. It just says, okay, it's a pleasant feeling. The mind remains there without the sense of I. It doesn't say this is me, this is mine, this is myself. And this is because it starts to see the impermanence of all conditioned experiences.
And it starts to notice, every time it does take things personally, that there's dukkha. So eventually it just completely lets go and has total equanimity. That's why it's seeing things as they actually are. Now, you need good equanimity. You need strong levels of equanimity. If your equanimity is weak, what should you do? Look at this chart. If yathabhuta nanadassana, or equanimity, is not stable, what do you do? You bring in the preceding factor, which is collectedness, samadhi. What? Being more attentive to what is going on. If your collectedness is weak, what does that mean? You don't have enough comfort.
You don't have enough happiness. If you don't have enough happiness, what does that mean? You need to bring up more tranquility, more relaxation. If your mind has restlessness and agitation, what does that mean? You don't have enough enjoyment in the practice. In other words, you don't have enough piti. So the point of this practice is not to go, like I said in the beginning, not to go gung-ho and think I have to meditate, I'm going to meditate, and I'm going to try my hardest. Because all that's going to do is what? It's going to create restlessness. It's going to create tightness and tension. It's going to create disharmony. cannot enjoy the process, then you know that you're on the wrong track.
You can see for yourself here. This is what the Buddha has said. The Buddha has talked about the practice which is good in the beginning and good in the end. The Buddha has talked about the practice that's easy in the beginning and easy in the end. There is a practice that is easy in the beginning and difficult in the end. There is a practice that is difficult in the beginning and easy in the end. And then there's a practice that is difficult in the beginning and difficult in the end. Who in their right mind would want to choose that?
Maybe some sadomasochists. Who knows? But the Buddha has given you these choices. Which one would you take? Easy in the beginning and easy in the end. So what does it mean, easy in the beginning? From the get-go. There's no special thing that you need to do. Just be here right now and let go. Relax, bring tranquility, and enjoy the process.
This is why I talked about in the beginning: you guys are on vacation. Smile more, laugh, enjoy yourselves. Right? Take it easy. The more you do this, the easier the practice becomes. Oftentimes you might be met with a hindrance that is just all pervading. It's just, it's always there. And it's like, I can't deal with this hindrance. What's going on here? Well, that's the thing. It's your attitude, your perception of that hindrance, right? Allow this hindrance to be there and become this cloud over your mind, a dark, stormy cloud over your mind. And so you've given it power by saying it's overwhelming.
But the more you smile, the more you relax, the more you laugh, the more you see it as it's this big thing to, oh, it's only this. The more you can smile at your hindrances, the more you can laugh at your hindrances, the more you can be amused by your monkey mind, the more relaxed you'll be and the less the hindrance takes hold. It's only when you make it difficult for yourself by saying, this thing, I can't get rid of it.
And then in the trying to keep getting rid of it, you're only adding more fuel. You're having what's known as yoniso manisikara. Yoni, which is the source of things, right? It basically means womb, right? The origin of something. Manisikara. Manas, the heart, the mind. Right? To take something to heart. That's what it literally means. Manisikara. This is how the Buddha rediscovered dependent origination.
After his experience, he sat under the Bodhi tree and he said, there is this aging and death. And then he asked, but what is the cause and condition for this aging and death? And he waited. This is a process of using your intuition. He did the same thing. He said, birth is the cause and condition for aging and death. Birth being the cause and condition for aging and death, what is the cause and condition for birth? He asked that question and he let it go, and then it came to him: becoming is the cause and condition for birth. So manisikara, proper attention, or the way I translate it is attention rooted in reality. What does that mean, attention rooted in reality?
Understanding that this reality is impermanent, liable to cause suffering, and therefore not me, not mine, not myself. The more you have that, and then treat the hindrance from that, rather than giving it improper attention, to fuel it, the more you just say, okay, I see this hindrance. It's impermanent. It's not me. It's not mine. It's not myself. It's only this. The easier it is for you to let go of it. And then you experience joy.
This is really the utility of yoniso manisikara. So when you experience that, when you have tranquility, when you have collectedness, then you have strong equanimity. Now that strong equanimity, first you experience it in the fourth jhana, as a factor of the fourth jhana. By the time you get to the seventh, that is of nothingness, equanimity itself becomes the object.
Perceptions Leading to Disenchantment
Why? Because prior to that, in infinite consciousness, you saw directly the impermanence, the dukkha, and the not-self of experiences. And your mind became quieter. And it experiences great degrees of equanimity. In the sutras, it talks about the six or seven different kinds of perceptions. What does that mean? The six or seven different kinds of perceptions. The perception of impermanence leads to the perception of dukkha. The perception of dukkha leads to the perception of anatta, the impersonal nature of things. The perception of anatta leads to the perception of equanimity.
The perception of equanimity leads to the perception of disenchantment. The perception of disenchantment leads to the perception of dispassion. And the perception of dispassion leads to the perception of cessation. The perception of liberation. So if you have strong amounts of equanimity and you're perceiving that, eventually what happens is your mind lets go of even the equanimity and remains disenchanted.
What does that mean, disenchantment? You've had enough of suffering. You've had enough of all these different kinds of mental activities that are going on. In the beginning, it's like, oh, there's a very interesting story here. Let me take a look at this. And your mind goes there. And what happens? You're having more and more mental proliferation.
More and more prapancha. But eventually you realize, if I go down this pathway, it just leads to the same thing. More and more prapancha. And so you get tired of that. You're like, I've had enough of this. Enchanted by this, one of the analogies that I use is, let's say the chef decides to make you your favorite meal, right? And he makes it just the way you like it, and your mind is uplifted by that, and you're hungry and you say yes, I'm going to eat it, and you enjoy it, you take great pleasure in eating it, and the chef says, I've made a second helping, and so you say, okay, yeah, I'll have a second helping. This was so good, I want some more.
So you take the second helping and you eat that. And the chef says, no, no, I have some more left for you. Here's a third helping. And your mind now says, you know, I'm kind of full, but I don't want to be impolite. So I'll take the third helping. So you take the third helping and the chef says, I have more for you. And now what was a source of great pleasure is now a source of suffering, right? It's a source of pain. I can't have anymore. That's enough. I'm gonna go. I'm gonna get sick. In fact, Nibbida also means revolution, right? Which means you've just had enough. So if you're still enchanted by thoughts, you're still enchanted by this experience and that experience.
You become a chaser of experiences, which means that your equanimity is not strong. The moment your equanimity is strong and you're finally tired of chasing experiences, tired of trying to analyze what is this, trying to figure out what is this, trying to rationalize and make all kinds of assumptions, conceptualize this and that. When you're tired of all of that, then you have disenchantment. And at this point, your mind starts to experience the quiet mind.
From that disenchantment, there is what's known as dispassion. Viraga. Vairagya. Dispassion. Detachment. Being completely unaffected. Now your mind is like a non-stick pen. Nothing sticks to it. It's like Teflon. Whatever kinds of distractions come up, they just go right through you. Your mind is insulated. This dispassion it's protected by this field of dispassion Now the thing is you cannot bring up disenchantment You can't bring up this passion, but they are direct fruits of having strong equanimity So if you notice your dispassion isn't there means your disenchantment isn't there If your disenchantment isn't there. What does it mean go back one step? Cultivate more equanimity been telling some of you that when you get into the eighth jhana when you get into neither perception or non-perception and you notice your mind is still interested in looking at this still agitated by this still disturbed by the flurry of thoughts in neither perception or non-perception what will i tell you to do first try to relax tranquilize and let go but if you notice that that's not working what should you do equanimity.
Right? Once you radiate equanimity again, what happens? Now your equanimity is back. Now it's stable. And then you relax back into quiet mind. And then the disenchantment naturally arises. And you might have to do this a couple dozen times in a sit. That in itself leads to disenchantment. You're like, finally, I'm done with this. Enough of this cycling back.
Right? And as a result of that, you have dispassion. Now in that dispassion, what you will see is there is very little, if at all, any kind of vibration in the mind. Total still mind. And as you get deeper, you start to experience what's known as the signless collectedness of mind. Way. Don't do anything. Absolutely nothing. In just seeing that something is arising, your mind lets go of it.
Cessation and Liberation of the Mind
So you come in and out of self and not self. You come in and out of conceit arising, conceit going away. And eventually, while you're here, when the last formations in the mind completely cease, which are mental formations that allow you to feel and perceive, your mind dips into the cessation of perception, feeling, and consciousness. And in that, you experience what's known as vimukti. So at one level, that vimukti is total freedom from all conditioned experience.
At a higher level, that vimukti, on a broader macro level, that vimukti is coming to some experience of an attainment. Why? Because then you become liberated from the first three fetters, when you become a stream enterer. You then get liberated from stronger craving and stronger aversion when you go into once returner, sakadagami. Sensual craving and aversion are let go when your mind attains to anagami. And then you have let go of all conceit, all restlessness, all craving for even meditation itself.
All ignorance. And now your mind is experiencing the ultimate liberation. That is, the liberation from the wheel of samsara. No longer do you have to come back. Now you're completely liberated. So this is what is vimukti. Right? So you experience the cessation of all phenomena. And your mind connects or touches the nibbana element. Now when you go through this, your mind then experiences at the ultimate stage, the total destruction of the taints. The three taints, generally speaking. The taint of ignorance, the taint of craving for existence, and the taint of sensual desire.
You have totally become immune to any of those viruses. And now in the Upanisa Sutta, it talks about how this comes about. Because there is the destruction of the taints, destroyed. In other words, it sees the links of dependent origination. If you go back to reading the Digha Nikaya in the Mahapadana Sutta, there it talks about Vipassi Buddha's journey. In there, in Vipassi Buddha's journey, it talks about how he looks at the links of dependent origination and finally, letting go, he understands the arising and passing away of the five aggregates. And he lets go of total identification with them and experiences total liberation.
So ultimately, finally, what happens is you let go of identifying with any modality of experience. And you just leave it as it is. When you leave it as it is, no craving can arise. No aversion can arise. Ignorance can arise. No wrong view can arise. So as a result of which, there is the knowledge of the destruction of the taints. This is the reviewing knowledge. In your own experience, when you attain stream entry, there is a reviewing process. Something happened.
I let go of something. It feels like an ocean of suffering has been let go. That ocean of suffering that's been let go is because you have locked up any possibility. You have let go of any possibility of any rebirth in a realm that is lower than the human realm. And eventually you notice there is very little craving left in me. And eventually you notice there is no craving left in me. And eventually you notice I have understood the path completely.
I have total realization of the Four Noble Truths. So this process of the Transcendental Links of Dependent Origination essentially is cyclical. Again, because when you experience the vimutti of experiencing the right view, of letting go of the first three fetters, what do you do? I'll tell you, congratulations, that's wonderful. Take it easy today, walk around, enjoy this. And then go back to sit when you're ready. Why? Because now you do the same thing again. But now you have stronger faith. Now you have total conviction in the path. Now right view has started to become established in your mind.
And then you repeat the process again. It's a process of rinse and repeat. Until finally you experience that final link of the destruction of the taints altogether. So this process is to be enjoyed. This process is to be experienced with great comfort and ease. The more you do this, the greater degrees of progress you will make. It really is that simple.
The mind has a tendency to complicate things. Oh, if I only did this. But that hindrance is still blocking me. That hindrance is still there. What do I do with that hindrance? Stop treating it that way. It's only this. The moment you change it from, oh, what do I do? Oh, it's only this. Oh, it's you again. Okay, I'm letting you go. The more you have that attitude, the easier the practice becomes.
Stop trying to bring up loving kindness. Stop trying to bring up the joy. Stop trying to radiate. Just relax in your mind and allow the mind to do what it's doing. Of course, changing the rudder here and there, you are the captain of your ship, right? You're just watching the rudder move a little bit from your intention, and then what do you do? Just make sure everything is fine. Just watch. Observe. Something's out of place, right? The compass is loose, we're going in a different direction. Six R's, four R's: let go, come back. The more you have that attitude of just watching this process like a movie, that metacognition, that cognition of cognition, that ability to see how mind moves, the more you do that, the less you'll have to try for something. Then it just becomes a natural, automatic, organic process, a naturally progressive process, not something that you need to construct. This is actually a process of deconstructing and letting go. That is the only way you will experience true cessation of suffering, by letting go. Any questions? So the perfection of Noble Eightfold Path happens only for arahant.
Precepts and Sensual Pleasures
Before that, you are fine-tuning it. Can we perfect five precepts anywhere on the path? Yes, absolutely. So even before stream entry? Even before stream entry. Okay. It's rooted more in intention. Yeah. Okay. Precepts, if we try to maintain the three additional precepts that we take during retreat, any like combination of them, is there any mention in suttas where the way you explain, you know, benefits, fruits of holy life for the first five precepts, is there anything mentioned for these three other on your body, first and foremost. Because the less you have to digest, the easier it is for your mind to focus. That's one thing. That's a practical experience. Letting go of entertainment and dance and all of that is basically like you're less attracted to sensual pleasures.
That allows you to do that. Letting go of trying to beautify the body and this and that. That allows you to be less with the body, less conceit arises from that. But if you keep the five basic precepts, that's a good beginning. That's a good start. Now, like I said, just as a comment, I remember, I don't know how many of you know Venerable Obasa, but she's a nun from Hong Kong. And she usually comes to Damasuka for about two, maybe one or two months out of the year. So she was with me while I was giving the retreats.
And we were having different interviews, and she was with me. And she said, you know, some people are asking about the fifth precept. Like, is that negotiable? Because I like to have a glass of wine once in a while. You know, what's the big deal? It's fine. Maybe smoke a joint or whatever it is. And so she was telling me that when she went to Norway, there, because they have such a culture of, like, drinking is just within, you know, the culture. It's like, even the monk over there, the abbot over there was like, okay, you guys can keep the four precepts. It's okay.
Right? But no, no, no. The fifth precept is non-negotiable. You'll see for yourself. I mean, even when you drink that one sip of wine or one sip of beer, it's like, oh, maybe I shouldn't have done that. You immediately have that little regret in your mind. Precept. All right, who's next? So yeah, the whole process initially when it happens, it's very quick, very easy, but as you progress more you get to know labels, milestones, and you know you're more attached to things, basically like this is this date, let me go to this and compare this and to do this, and then it itself becomes hindrance that prolong the process. How does one deal with this?
Beginner's Mind and Milestones
You still have to have that beginner's mindset. So that means you need to have enough disenchantment even with the Dhamma. I'll tell you from my own experience. When I started out on this path and had the experiences that I had, I didn't even watch one single Dhamma talk in the beginning. Only when I had to watch the Dhamma talk was when I was doing the online retreat. Bhante's Dhamma talk. But after that, it wasn't like there was like this thing that I have to watch more Dhamma talks. Didn't do that. Didn't go into the suttas. Now, I started this practice in 2016.
I only started reading the suttas in the end of 2020. No Dhamma books, no nothing. I decided I will go as deep as I can into my practice. Influence what's going on. Because there can be a tendency for the mind. I mean, yes, it's a wonderful thing to do it because it inspires and it cultivates the pamojja, the joy in the Dhamma.
But it's a double-edged sword, right? Because now you know what's going on. And now it's like you said, you're looking for those milestones. But because I had the luxury of being a beginner, for me, I could just go from one thing and not even think about it, and I just write in my report this is what happened and I wrote this and that, and then the teacher would say, okay, now you do this, okay, and you just do that, and it was a process of rinsing and repeating, and so I had no resistance to all of that. Now if you have been somebody who's, you know, seen that and looking out for that, what do you do? I always say the first time is easy. The subsequent times for the attainments is much harder because now you know. But the key there is to keep treating it like it's something fresh.
The key there is to keep treating it like every meditation will be different. I could experience something completely new. Maybe I thought I was experiencing the seventh jhana, but maybe there is another level or quality of the seventh jhana that I haven't yet experienced. Let me see how it is. So if you bring that sense of novelty, that each sit will bring something unexpected, some unexpected outcome that is towards the positive.
And just let go of that and just sit. Like you're watching a TV show. You're just like engrossed in the TV show, right? You watch one episode and you watch the next episode and you're thinking, what's going to happen now? That's the same attitude you have. What's going to happen in this meditation? Let's see. Instead of having preconceived expectations and go to the seventh jhana and then what happens there, you experience meditation fatigue, things become stale and you don't really progress after that. So if you treat each meditation on its own as something that is fresh and new and something new can happen, then you will see more progress. That makes sense. But one more question. Like according to your experience, is it true that some of the higher factors take more effort to deal with in comparison, for example, self-view or rites and rituals, versus sense desire and ill will?
Which Fetters Are Hardest
Is it true that it takes more effort to deal with those things? It takes more mindfulness and hence more effort because sensual desires are almost ingrained from the get-go. The intellectual understanding of not-self is much easier. of identifying with sensual desires is from day one of our existence in this human existence. And it's being carried forward by, it's carrying forward all kinds of experiences from past existences as well. So it is much more difficult. And beyond that, of course, conceit and restlessness and so on. In fact, there's a sutta where the Buddha talks about, and it's, I mean, what he says is basically, all right, you have so many stream mentors, You have so many once-returners.
You have so many non-returners. That was all easy. Now starts the real effort. Now starts the real work of becoming an arhat. So imagine that. I mean, if the Buddha is saying that. One more question around factor of sense, desire and ill will. of sense desire pertains to five sense basis basically because the sense peace of mind is still there because Jhana, clinging to Jhana, right? What about ill will? What about ill will to the thought for a mind sense peace? Yeah, there's still ill will there so that's still a level of aversion that you have to let go of. Okay, it would be there after Anagami as well? Ill will to thought basically? Yeah, so all ill will go away for the Anagami.
including ill-will to any concept, idea, thought. So the sense desire pertains to five sense pieces, but ill-will, all ill-will, including mind as well. That's right. Thank you. Right behind me. I have two questions. One is the difference I wanted to understand between intention and attention that I'm not getting. Intention is towards Nibbana, attention is towards our mind. Is that? No.
Intention can move your attention to one thing or the other. Intention can be an inclination to Nibbana. It's not that it is an inclination to Nibbana. Intention can be any intention towards something. Attention is through which consciousness flows. It's the directionality or the direction of consciousness, where consciousness is going. That you're seeing, then there's eye consciousness there. If you're paying attention to what it is that you're hearing, then there's your consciousness that's there. But the intention to pay attention to the eyes rather than the ears is the intention. And second is a difference between sensations and feelings. They are one and the same. Sensation and feeling are just different words for the same thing. For me, there's still a bit of uncertainty of how to interpret some precepts.
Interpreting the Precepts
For example, the fifth one with taking drugs. Like last time we talked about that, coffee is all right, or tea? Or even taking, I think you mentioned mushrooms, taking ones is okay with the intention to broaden the mind, mindset or something like that? First and foremost, let's make sure that when we talk about mushrooms, we're talking about a clinical setting. It's not like I'm intending that these mushrooms are going to help me deal with my trauma.
You're doing it under a medicinal thing. Even alcohol can be taken if it's been prescribed by a doctor for the purposes of helping something. Like some medication in the past had been diluted in alcohol or whatever it is. So the idea is it's all about, number one, your intention. Number two, what is the purpose of that particular substance?
Now with coffee and tea, again, like I said, I can't tell you because I don't drink tea or coffee. Like I used to, but I found that it's much better not to drink tea and coffee. Now I know of meditators who might be addicted to coffee. It's like they have to have coffee in the morning. They need to have their two cups of coffee in the day or whatever. Actually, if you think about coffee, it is psychoactive, right? It creates some kind of an uplifted feeling and whatnot. So I would use your discretion. I would say use your discretion to what you think makes sense. What I will say is eventually you might want to taper off of coffee and tea until no more.
But it's one of the more, let's say, harmless kinds of substances than, let's say, alcohol and other things. And with harsh speech, I feel like in part of some cultures, it's just so much part of the daily life. I don't know that when you step into shit, you say, like, oh shit. And stuff like that. Yeah, that's very interesting, because in America that word is bad. But I hear it everywhere in India. It's just part of it, like, oh shit. It's like, okay, whatever. But it's all about context. It's about context and it's about intention. Harsh speech can be used in the sense of, like, you're actually wanting to harm another person. So abusive speech is that. Harsh speech can also be speech that creates agitation in the mind. It creates... it's harsh because it just creates this aggravation. And then there are some cultures where people are just naturally very boisterous.
But at the end of the day, that also is not helpful. And then there's a speech which is restless speech. So restless speech, there would be speech that's like speaking for the sake of speaking. Like you can't deal with the sound of silence. There's a level of discomfort with silence. And so you talk about the news, you talk about the weather, stocks, you talk about crypto, you talk about this and that. And just because...
So it's better not to talk about these things. The Buddha has talked about it as the talk of kings and the talk of this kingdom here. Have you heard of what happened there? All of these things. It's really not useful. It's really not useful. So with harsh speech, understand the context and understand the intention behind it. Is there some place where you can read more about the precepts and how to interpret them?
So once you start keeping the precepts, what you will notice is as you keep each precept, your mind lets go further, further hindrances. And then you start to navigate through the precepts. A way you think, does this make more sense? So it's more of using your intuition. It's more of using your own experience to help define what that is. At the very surface level, we know what it means when we say keep the precepts. It means not to kill, not to harm, not to take what is not given, meaning not to steal or not to borrow without asking, not to cheat on your partner, not to indulge any kind of sensual misconduct or sexual misconduct, not to indulge in any kind of overindulgences in things, not to lie, even if it's a white lie, right?
For the sake of manipulating things, not to indulge in abusive speech. Use your speech in a way that doesn't cause harm to others. And see if it's the right time to speak or not. I'll talk more about this tomorrow when we talk about the Eightfold Path. But one of the ways to think about right speech is the word THINK, the acronym THINK, right? T-H-I-N-K. So T is, is it the right time to say what you want to say? H is, is it honest? Do you know it to be true? I is, what is the intention behind it? Is it a wholesome intention, unwholesome intention? N is, is it necessary for you to say what it is that you have to say?
Or can it wait? Or is it even needed? And K is, can you still say it with kindness? So if you have this in your mind, then you'll notice that most of the time you may not need to speak. The best kind of speech is total silence. Only speak when you really need to. And you'll notice that results in mental noble silence a lot.
Boundaries Between Work and Practice
Right here. As we progress, having not experienced disenchantment, I'm asking someone who has: how does one live and work in a world where we're paid to be completely enchanted? I speak personally. That's why I don't get paid. And so I think for me, the question is, how do you draw these, or do these boundaries naturally get drawn on as the practice finds its place in your life? - When you mean boundaries, what do you mean? - In the sense of like mental proliferation or going into... so I am a researcher. I need to go into information. I need to analyze. And I see how that also goes into my personal life. And so that's why the boundaries.
So now I'm wondering. I'm thinking about, when does the professional deep, like the livelihood deep, when does she take over? That's a good point that you bring up, because we are taught in school as well to analyze things, to reflect on things, to examine things, to dissect and discuss, and so on. These all have their utility, they all have their purpose, because it helps us to function in this world where we need to get a job, let's say, or make a living, and so on. But there's oftentimes a tendency for people to bring their work back home, and especially now when you have work from home, that complete boundary between the workplace and home is completely gone now.
And so the idea of working eight hours is now gone, to like you're working pretty much all the time. Even if you think you're not working, your mind's always like, okay, what do I have to do tomorrow? Do I have to file this? Do I have to do that? All of that. That's where mindfulness and attention are very useful to create that boundary and be like, you know what? I'm going to make it a point that maybe after I come back from work, I'm going to switch off everything and meditate for 30 minutes and let go. Let whatever comes up, whatever restless thoughts come up about work, I'm going to deal with them by letting them go.
Let them come up and I'm going to relax them. And once I'm done with that, now you have this sort of border, right? There's work, then there's meditation, and now it's this gate into which you're entering, which is now relaxing. Now you're just taking it easy for the day. That's one way of looking at it. So for me, when I'm navigating into the world, I'm not thinking about what talk I'm going to give. I'm not thinking about who's next for the interview or not. I don't have any process of preparation for anything. I just come into it and start talking. Hopefully it starts to make sense to everyone.
That's it. And that's because I have complete trust that everything is going to unfold the way it needs to. So until you get to that point where it's like, okay, I can totally trust in life, you have to keep letting go of processes where you're trying to analyze things and you're trying to make decisions and you're trying to make a SWOT analysis and all these other things.
And then trust your intuition. That comes much later, when you really trust your ability to intuit what is required in a situation. And the more you exercise that, the more you do it, the less mental proliferation arises, because now it finds that there's greater efficiency in using intuition than using all this mental power that causes a lot of drain on your energy. And so because of that you'll find more energy, which means you have more time to practice. You'll have more time, and the day doesn't feel completely exhausted.
Sloth and Torpor in Practice
My next question is on, I think it's love and torpor. It's connected to what you're also saying, like try to relax into the practice, try to have fun, try not to do, don't try too hard. I'm also super early in my practice, but I noticed today when I was trying to be gentle, I was nodding off and I had to come back with some level of verve, of being like, oh my God, I'm going to really send out this love. And that really did elevate the practice for them. And so I'm like, is this like bad behavior? It was just today I was having a hard day. Yeah. So with sloth and torpor, it's all about making small adjustments.
Yeah, there's a tendency to be like, oh, I see sloth and torpor, I'm going to try pushing a little bit more. And in doing that, what happens is you have this ricochet effect. It's like now there's more restlessness and then suddenly it goes back into sloth and torpor. So you have to make small, very small, tiny, incremental steps of let me try a little bit more and then wait and see what happens. And maybe you need more. So you try a little bit more and wait and see what happens. That's the way to deal with it. Great. Okay, last question is how do you tell the difference between sloth and torpor and when your body just needs a break, just needs to go to sleep?
You do feel some kind of physical exhaustion compared to the mental sloth and torpor. So you might notice pains and aches in the body. You might notice that there is a sense of draining feeling in your body. That's when you know you need to go rest. And there is something called meditation fatigue, like I talked about earlier, where at some point there's just... you've lost steam in your meditation. That time you just pack up, take it easy, go for a walk, enjoy the day, and come at it with freshness. Thank you. You had a question here? There are advantages of keeping the precepts, but there are certain disadvantages also. For example, you might quit from the gossip group or you might quit from the clubbing group and all.
Precepts and Livelihood Questions
You find that as a disadvantage? You will be alone, you will not be in a group. Yeah, so the Buddha has talked about this too. It depends on your priorities, right? It just depends on your priorities. He's talked about, you're the one who asked the question about good company and bad company, let's say. And the Buddha has said, if you can't find any good company, better to walk alone.
Right? So, you might have heard of the statement, gossip ends in a wise person's ears. Meaning, somebody who is wise does not interact with the gossip, nor do they add to the gossip, nor do they take what they've heard and say to another person. No point in gossiping. So it's really a good thing. There are no disadvantages to the precepts. Really. Maybe you have to quit your job, but maybe you'll find a better job. Oftentimes people have these dilemmas where it's like, but I'm in a sales team and I have to lie about our sales figures or I have to do this or I have to do that. job.
And I realize I say that being jobless. For me, it's easier said than done, like quit your job. So I know it can be a challenge, but you have to look at yourself and see what are your priorities. In a day-to-day work-life setting, when we deal with clients, especially in government lines, we have to go with some kickbacks, so it is part of my life. So even if it doesn't go through me, it goes to somebody. Yeah, so I'm not happy with that. Yeah, so how could we deal with that? So first you have to understand what you do for yourself, and how you deal with it is your responsibility. What happens down the chain is not your responsibility. How people react to what's going on is their responsibility. Number one. Number two is, if you do see that there is a direct chain of command where you're pushing this and saying do this, then you need to reflect and see if this makes sense for you.
because at some point of time I have to be the point of contact. Yeah, so there comes the issue. I might not be involved in any point of transaction, but at some point of time I have to be at the point of contact, because I am clear, I have my transactions clear. Yeah, I am not anywhere involved, but this is me who's supposed to contact the person. Yeah, yeah. That's the thing about samsara. It is so complicated. But I would say just do the best you can, really. If it's in your control, do the best you can, where you have the ability not to have to deal with these things, and do that. Yeah. I was waiting for the questions to end because I am doubtful about the usefulness of the question that I want to ask.
Beginningless Samsara and Nibbana
Okay. There are a lot of senior meditators here. I'm the beginner. For us meditators, Nibbana is the ultimate goal. We are walking on this path to achieve Nibbana because Nibbana ends the sufferings. Now for any arahant that will end the suffering, the last birth that the arahant takes when he achieves arahantship, he or she has travelled through several existences to reach that birth beyond which there will not be any more births. Now since they are travelling through several lives and they want to end it by ending sufferings,
Joy. Nibbana has, I don't know what word to use. Something like joy or bliss or whatever. Something like more of this. Now, the life that has traveled through so many existences and by achieving Nibbana, we are going to end the suffering and therefore Sartala end. When did this life begin and how did it begin? Which life? That life which ends in Nibbana. The life of that arahant who achieves Nibbana. That life, that consciousness, whatever is traveling through several existences. So it has begun somewhere. What is that beginning? And how does it begin?
How far do you want to go? We can go from one contraction and expansion of the universe or we can go to a hundred quadrillion expansions and contractions of the universe. You see, the thing is, even the Buddha looked for a beginning to this. And looked for a beginning of his series of lives. And he couldn't find it. He said, samsara is beginningless. Samsara is? Beginningless. There is no beginning to it.
So trying to look for a first cause is a fruitless effort. Because all you'll see is the same stuff, more of the same stuff. And at a certain point, the Buddha saw the same thing. It's like, okay, it happened here. It happened a thousand lifetimes ago. It's just the same repetitive cycle that's going on and on and on.
In different degrees. Maybe it wasn't like he was in this existence as a certain kind of person. He was a trader, let's say. Or he was a craftsman. Or he was this. He was still dealing with similar kinds of situations for anybody, for any existence. So it's like Bhava. The Bhava is basically beginningless. So many different kinds of habitual tendencies that you go through. So many different kinds of life situations that you go through, not only in this life, which you have a tendency to repeat.
So imagine from going from one existence to the other, how many different life situations are completely on repeat. That's how samsara is. There's no beginning there. It just keeps going. But there is an end. That's the beauty of it. Thank you. One small thing, which is not actually, we have heard only, not read. It is in the stories about the Jataka stories that Buddha is walking on the path going somewhere. And one, extremely common lady, a woman along with her husband, is going passing by and she happens to see the Buddha and she says, ah, he's my son, he's my son. A lay person. I don't know whether she's a stream-enterer or at what stage she's at; that's not known, but she's an ordinary lady. Now, can an ordinary person, and then Buddha told, seems to have told somebody, no, no, in one life, right, she was my mother, right, now
Past Lives and Iddhis
An ordinary person like her can also remember and identify somebody who was her son in a previous birth? Oh, absolutely. So being able to see past lives doesn't mean that you have to be enlightened. It doesn't mean you have to be a stream-enterer. It doesn't mean you have to do anything. Even other traditions, if you're not following the Buddhist path, you can still go into seeing your past lives. It's still quite possible. Of the siddhis, one of the iddhis that is possible, one of the powers or faculties that is available to anybody if they want to try.
So in Buddhism, is there any special type of meditation or effort that one has to make to get to that siddhis? Yes. Complete mastery of the fourth jhana, and then from that fourth jhana, directing your mind towards the cultivation of one of those powers. Thank you very much. I was searching for this answer for the last few years. Thank you very much. If one practices the trim, even in next life, it will help him to help him. It can. It's possible. But try to just end this life itself.
Grief and Funeral Rites
Just had a thought. I had a bit of proliferating questions myself. So, end of the talk today. So first question is, it's stemming from yesterday, but you mentioned to not express immediate grief when one loved one passes away. What's the reasoning behind that? Because, you know, in general, at least in India, when people are actually consoling people, they say things like, it hurts the soul of the departed and so on.
So, but what's the... and it could be mentioned somewhere in scriptures, or it could just be a way to... because the consciousness is there, being present, is aware of that, and it can create agitation there, some confusion of what's going on. It's better to, that's what I'm saying, it's better to chant mantras or suttas or do something that keeps the mind uplifted. And this is also from Bhante Vimalaramsi's experience when he was younger, much younger. He would go to different hospices. There was one hospice he would go to, which was managed by his mom, and he would go from person to person, and even if they're Christian, even if they're Muslim, even if they're Hindu, he would read from their particular scripture and make them uplifted, so that being uplifted they have the opportunity for a better rebirth. That's what he did. So that's the idea: by being in a grief
Acting out of grief while that body is there, or while that consciousness might still be there, can create agitation for that being. And here's another tip. When you yourselves die, and you see the light at the end of the tunnel, before you go into the light at the end of the tunnel, try to look around you.
That's all I'll say. So you also mentioned about the 18 to 72 hours window. So should then we avoid any expression of grief for that whole duration? Yes. If yes, then do you know of any mention in Hindu scripture? Because I'm asking because I have a lot of aging people in my vicinity and I just want to know how I can convince other people to follow this kind of a thing to absolute level. The only thing you can really do at that point is comfort the person. And that's okay, comforting the person. And try to make them think about the good things that person has done, the person who's deceased. And that'll start making them uplifted.
And by doing that, then even the deceased, if they're around, will hear that and keep uplifted. That makes sense. One more question on this. You mentioned not to do any rituals in that window. So should we not move the body at all? Yeah, this was asked by another person in an interview and they said, if the body is burned, does that have an effect on the consciousness? No. The consciousness is separate from the body. So even if you decide you want to bury the body or cremate the body or whatever, it's fine.
Life Support and Karma
But just make sure that you do it in a way that is peaceful and without much, you know, no loud crying and so on. Okay. One last question. So, when a person is on a ventilator, first we don't know what's the state of the mind, whether it wants to fight to stay back or whether it is ready to let go, and we are causing suffering by extending their lifetime. Know that. Yeah. But the bigger question is, if one decides to pull up the plug out of compassion, in their mind the intention is compassion, but even with the intention of compassion they are, in a way, killing. So what is the impact on their karma? That's one. And second, so if I am the decision maker but the plug is pulled by, of course, a hospital staff, how is it impacting? Okay, so I think the way to look at it is when we talk about things like life support, I would say that's a process of trying to prolong that life beyond its time of death, let's say.
That's one way of looking at it. I would see nothing wrong with ending life support. Before that, if you try to do euthanasia, then it's definitely killing. That life support, you're not really doing anything. This was a question asked by somebody to Bante where they had a lot of guilt that their father was under life support, and she felt like maybe she had done something that was unwholesome, and Bante said no, because life support is to keep that life going, but if the life is naturally ready to go and taking out those equipment that prolongs that life, then all you're doing is allowing that body or that being to continue that natural process of going away. So it has no karmic effect, even if the mind stream is not ready to let go, that you allow the mind to do. Okay, so it won't impact one's karma. Okay, thank you. Thank you so much. Yeah, sir, actually I, I did not remember the seizing of faculties like
Seizing of the Faculties
When one goes dead, what are the... I do not remember the sequence of seizing of faculty. Can you repeat, sir? Okay. So when we talk about the seizing of faculties, you're talking about the sixth sense basis, right? Yeah. So the way you look at it, the first thing that ceases is the sense of smell, right? And then what ceases is the sense of taste. Then what ceases is the sense of sight. Then what ceases is the sense of touch.
Then what ceases is the sense of hearing. And finally, the mind. Thank you, sir. This is beyond that. It's the mind at the level of mind. The person should be mindful at that time. Absolutely. That's it. If you have mindfulness, there won't be any cravings. The reason why should one look around? I told you, I'll tell you and that's all I'll say. That's all I'll say. Just remember that when you're dying. Yes, yes, yes. We should look around like this. Something which relates to what Madam had just asked. She said there's nothing wrong in removing the life support when you're technically prolonging. Because you're only technically prolonging the life. Right. What happens to the person whose duty is to execute the people with life sentence?
Yeah, it's terrible karma. What is there? Is it their karma or they are made to do this by somebody else? Even if they're made to do it, they have the choice to say, I don't want to do this. So it's still bad karma. So that livelihood is actually... Terrible one. Yeah. Wrong livelihood. Thank you. So the question is, we talked about letting go of life support that has no unwholesome karma. What about executioners? That's the bad karma. Okay, that's it.
Sharing Merit
Let's share some merit. May suffering ones be suffering free and the fears struck fearless be. May the grieving shed all grief and may all beings find relief. May all beings share this merit that we have thus acquired for the acquisition of all kinds of happiness. May beings inhabiting space and earth, devas and nagas of mighty power share this merit of ours. May they long protect the Buddha's dispensation.