Lightly edited transcript Filler words and caption errors removed by machine; the meaning is unchanged.
Delson closes a retreat by explaining the Noble Eightfold Path as a way of living, not only a sitting practice. He goes through each factor, from mundane right view and the threefold right intention to right speech (the THINK acronym), right action, right livelihood, the four right efforts (which he links to the 6R's), and right mindfulness and collectedness. The talk ends with a question-and-answer session on sleep, dying and pain medication, the Sigalovada Sutta and parents with adult children.
Key points
- Right view begins with understanding karma: actions have consequences, and intention is what shapes them, so keeping intentions wholesome matters.
- Right intention has three parts (renunciation, non-ill will, non-cruelty), and Delson explains renunciation as letting go of ego and identification, not only of possessions.
- Right speech can be checked with the acronym THINK (timeliness, honesty, intention, necessity, kindness), and noble silence is presented as the best right speech.
- Keeping the precepts is described as the foundation (sila) that supports samadhi, and Delson says the precepts bring benefits such as comfort around others and a clear, malleable mind.
- The four right efforts map onto the 6R's: recognize and release or relax for unwholesome states, smile to generate wholesome states, and return to the object to maintain them.
- Supramundane right view arises at stream entry, and the path is perfected at arahatship with the added factors of right knowledge and right liberation.
Suttas in this talk
Each opens the sutta on SuttaCentral.
Themes
Noble Eightfold Path · Ethics and virtue · The 6R's · Practice in daily life
Where this talk sits on the path
This talk speaks mostly to Foundations. It follows the thread of Daily life / ethics.
The path runs from Foundations to Arahant; read at any point along it.
Transcript
Introduction to the Noble Eightfold Path
So today is the last day. What a relief, huh? So today I want to talk about what do you do in terms of how do you apply the Dhamma and it is exactly what you've been doing on retreat. The mentality should be the same and that is essentially applying the Eightfold Path which is what is today's topic, the Noble Eightfold Path. So what is the Eightfold Path? Right view, right intention, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, and right collectedness. So when we talk about right view there is two levels: mundane and Right View is all about creating a mindset that allows the mind to feel free of suffering. It's certain kinds of views that the mind holds in accordance with the Dhamma that keeps it psychologically uplifted.
Mundane Right View and Karma
First and foremost, what we're talking about is the understanding of karma, that there is cause and conditions that create consequences or there are consequences for our actions. Maybe not immediately, maybe not after a while, but maybe after some point. And so the idea is what we do unto others will happen to us one way or the other. Maybe not in the exact same way, but there is an exchange of karma that goes on.
Based on our intentions. So it's important to keep our intentions wholesome for that reason. Then the other understanding is that there is meaning in giving. There is meaning in what is offered. There is meaning in what is sacrificed. So here we're talking about that there is a benefit generous. And when we talk about generosity, it doesn't just mean money or food or resources and things like that. It also means sharing your smile, sharing your goodwill. That can be generous. Then there's the understanding that there is mother and there is father.
And what this is talking about is that even if we've had terrible in the past, the fact is that they brought us into this world so that we have the capacity and potential to experience Nibbana, and for that we are grateful. Everything else we can see how it goes, but that means we don't necessarily have to be accepting of everything or grateful to them. And for that reason we don't hold on to any kinds of resentment, any kinds of bad memories about them or with them. It might be difficult at times, and for that reason we use forgiveness and other kinds of practices to let go of these things. But if we have gratitude for just the fact that we have come into existence, that is more than enough.
Then it talks about there is this world and the other. Now sometimes that could mean that there is this world in terms of, yeah, there's this plane of existence and the other world, that there are other planes of existence. That's one way to look at it. Another way to look at it is there is this world in the form of the six sense bases and there is the other world in the form of jhanas and meditative attainments. That there is spontaneous rebirth or generation, which means that there is the arising and passing away of consciousnesses happening all the time. So we don't hold on to the idea that there is just one single entity that experiences everything.
It is a series of impersonal causes and conditions that can give rise to the illusion of a stationary permanent self. And finally, that there is or there are teachers and those who have walked the path who can show you that path. And so there is a gratitude for that. There is an acknowledgement of that. There's a reverence for that and so on. So this is all part of the mundane right view that allows the mind to shift towards understanding that our actions have consequences.
Right Intention
If you have that basic understanding, then you can go into right intention. Right intention is threefold. First, it's renunciation. Second, it's non-ill will. And third, it is non-cruelty. When we say renunciation, it could mean, but it's deeper than that, that we let go of our possessions. Things absolutely and but that's a very, very superficial way of looking at it. The deeper understanding is we let go of the ego. We let go of taking things personally. We let go of identifying with things. That is right intention, so everything that we're experiencing we let go of every time we identify with it. Non-ill will is cultivated through the practice of loving-kindness. Ill-will here can mean frustration, aversion, irritation, anger, rage, wrath, whatever it is.
But when we cultivate goodwill, when we cultivate loving-kindness towards ourselves and towards others, we start to reduce that ill-will. The more we have that goodwill, the more we have that kindness. And eventually, when we have perfected loving-kindness, no more ill will arises. And then non-cruelty. What is non-cruelty? What is cruelty? Cruelty is not being able to recognize the suffering in another and then adding to their suffering. Or maybe you do recognize the suffering in another, but you continue to add more to their suffering.
Every time you get in a situation where a person is getting into an argument with you, a person is criticizing you, a person is saying different things about you, maybe spreading rumors about you, causing all kinds of problems in your life. If you react in a way that is defensive, that is, how could they say that about me? How could they say this to me? going to respond and so and so and so, then what you're doing is you're not doing anything different than they are, right? And you're just adding to your suffering and you're adding to their suffering. But if you recognize their suffering, and you recognize that there is suffering in their mind, and you recognize that suffering as your own or related to you, then when you six are and you let go.
And then the intuition arises to allow you to say, I should say this instead of saying that. I should respond instead of reacting. I should not say anything. I should not do anything in this moment. This will de-escalate the situation. This will change the person's perspective. What this means is, this is that eternal law that the Buddha has always talked about: Hatred does not cease by hatred, but by love alone. So whenever you are met with situations which are difficult, instead of adding to them with unwholesome states, the best thing to do is to let go of your attachment to them and cultivate wholesome states and act from there. This is how you change the environment around you.
Right Speech
The world around you. So once you've cultivated right intention, then you can go into right speech. Right speech is abstaining from false speech. Abstaining from harsh speech. Abstaining from gossip. Abstaining from divisive speech, abstaining from unnecessary speech. So what is gossip? Gossip is when you talk about another person who is not in the room, right? And you don't know whether it is to be true or not about them. How do you know you're gossiping about that person? If you're saying whatever it is you're saying about that person in the room, how would you feel talking about them? If it makes you uncomfortable, you're gossiping. You might have heard this statement, right? Gossip ends with the wise mind.
So people around you might be gossiping, and you might see that, and they might ask you something, but you don't say anything. You say, I choose not to discuss this matter. And, obviously, not spreading rumors, and so on. But there's a way of looking at right speech using an acronym, which is THINK. You've heard this before. Think before you speak. So what does THINK stand for? T-H-I-N-K. The T is for timeliness. Is it the right time for what you want to say? Or is it the wrong time?
H is for honesty. Do you know what you're going to say to be truthful or not? And if you don't, you say, I'm not sure what exactly is the story behind this, but this is what I've been told. You don't have to misrepresent or represent falsehoods. So is it true or is it not true? That's H, honesty. I is for intention. What is the intention behind what it is that you want to say? Is it a wholesome intention to unite and to bring peace? Or is it an unwholesome intention to divide and create strife? N is for necessity. Is it necessary for you to say what it is that you want to say? Say what you have to say.
Right Action and the Precepts
And K is for kindness. Can you say it with loving kindness? Now sometimes I'll get this question. What if I have to reprimand someone? What if I have to discipline my children? Sure, but can you do it with loving kindness? You don't have to use speech that is or speech that is abusive or harmful. You can still be stern, you can still be disciplined, but you can do it with loving kindness. Now tied to this is right action. Right action is essentially following the precepts, right? Abstaining from harming and killing living beings. Abstaining from taking what is not given. Abstaining from sexual misconduct.
And I think that's it. Well, it's not really there in the suttas, but it's implied. Now, this is an interesting thing about the fifth precept, as far as I understand it. The fifth precept is a more relatively newer precept. We only had four precepts in the beginning. And then what happened was there was an Arhat who got a little too drunk. And so the Buddha said, okay, no more. And so now we abstain from any kind of drinking. But that also includes other intoxicants, right? But that is implied when we talk about right mindfulness. When we talk about sexual misconduct or sensual misconduct, sensual misconduct is essentially misconduct related to the obsession over the obtaining of sensual pleasures.
And we get so obsessed that in the pursuit of those sensual pleasures, we break other precepts. So here, what we do is we look at whether our mind is craving towards something or our mind says this is useful for us. And if it's craving, we let go and still see, is it actually useful for us? Sexual misconduct is essentially having nothing to do with relationships in terms of what kind of relationship you can have. It can be any kind of relationship in terms of it could be heterosexual, it could be homosexual, polyamorous, it doesn't matter. What it's talking about is do not cheat on your partner or partners. That's it. When we talk about taking what is not given, now, when we say taking what is not given, abstaining from stealing, at the very superficial level, that means we do not, you know, take the physical possessions of others.
If we want to borrow it, we ask for permission. But beyond that, it's also about not taking credit where credit is not due. Not taking away the attention from someone when the spotlight is on them. Not taking too much of a person's time. So being respectful of all of these things are also part of that. When you do this, you reduce and eliminate, I should say, restlessness in the mind. Of course, we know, abstaining from killing and harming living beings. So that reduces and ultimately eliminates ill will. And obviously, abstaining from sensual and sexual misconduct reduces and eliminates any kind of sensual craving.
When we abstain from falsehoods, from speaking false speech, we reduce and ultimately eliminate all kinds of doubt. When we do not indulge in intoxicants, we let go of, reduce and eliminate any kind of sloth and torpor. Intoxicants also means that we don't overindulge on other things. We don't overdo it with other things. You know, when we are reading a good book, sometimes we get so engrossed in the book that we're taking a whole day reading the book. How do you feel at the end of it? You feel tired and exhausted. Or the latest show is on Netflix, right? And you binge watch the whole weekend. How do you feel at the end of it?
Yeah, that's sloth and torpor. So these, right intention, right speech, right action, or I should say right speech, right action, right livelihood, they have to do with sila, keeping the bedrock, the foundation. And there is great power in keeping the precepts. So what I mean by that is, when you continue to keep precepts, it has a certain kind of faculty that it brings up in the mind. For example, when you abstain from killing and harming living beings with intention, then your intention becomes so purified that people around you, beings around you, don't feel uncomfortable. They don't have bad vibes from you. They feel comfortable around you. They feel drawn to you. There's a certain kind of magnetism that you imbue in the mind.
And this happens as you continue to keep that precept. When you abstain from taking what is not given, more is given to you. You notice that everything that you require is always provided for. You're not always seeking things out. What you need in the exact moment is provided in the exact moment. Whatever it is. When you keep the precept of abstaining from sensual and sexual misconduct, your mind becomes exceptionally clear, exceptionally collected.
And when you keep the precept of not speaking falsehoods, Siddhi. And what that means is whatever it is that you say will happen. And finally, when you abstain from indulging in intoxicants, not only is your mind exceptionally clear and collected, but it's malleable. Wherever you put your mind to, immediately it goes there. No resistance in the mind. So these are some of the benefits of keeping the precepts, the power of the precepts. So when we talk about right livelihood, that is essentially having a job or a career or a business that does not deal in harming others or harming yourself. So that's in business, you know, for lay people, that means not dealing in business, human trafficking, which can deal in the selling of poisons, in the selling of weapons, in the selling of intoxicants, not dealing with the killing of animals, and things like that.
Right Effort and Samadhi
So that's right livelihood. And then once you have that, you have the sila. Now you're ready to go into samadhi. And that samadhi includes the right effort, right mindfulness. Right effort. We all know what that is, right? Six R's, or the four R's. What are the four right efforts? Preventing the arising of unarisen, unwholesome states. You do that by recognizing. As soon as you recognize an unwholesome state, you prevent the entire flow from continuing. Right there and then, you just stop that whole flow. The first right effort. The second right effort is to abandon already arisen unwholesome states. So presently a hindrance is there. You release, relax. The third right effort is to generate a wholesome state. You do that through the smile. And then the fourth right effort is to maintain that wholesome state. You do that through returning back to your object and staying with it.
These are the four right efforts that you've been doing constantly. This, along with right mindfulness, are the equipment for right collectedness. So right mindfulness is what? Seeing body as body, mind as mind, feeling as feeling, mind phenomena as mind phenomena. Not having any attachment to them. It's how the mind's attention moves in relation to these experiences. So mindfulness is not about just when you're brushing your teeth, you know you're brushing your teeth and allowing your mind to go here and there. Mindfulness is about: fine, you're brushing your teeth, but where is your mind in relation to that? When you're eating your food and tasting it, where is your mind in relation to that? Once you have that, then your mind becomes collected.
Now your mind becomes attentive. Now you get into right collectedness. So in order for you to have right collectedness, you need the other seven preceding factors of the Eightfold Path. And now you get into experiencing meditative attainments. You get into the first jhana, the second jhana, the third jhana, the fourth jhana, the ayatanas. You've been doing all throughout this time, and this is what you continue to do. So the Eightfold Path is actually more of a lifestyle. It's more of a way of being, a way of living that can be done anytime, in any moment. Every time you do the 6R's and you let go, you are invariably
applying and living and cultivating the Eightfold Path. Because as I said, it's through right effort you go from wrong view to right view, wrong intention to right intention, wrong speech to right speech, wrong action to right action, wrong livelihood to right livelihood, wrong mindfulness to right mindfulness, wrong collectedness to right collectedness. So you might notice your intention is, oh, I want to hold on to this. You recognize that, you release, relax, return, right? You re-smile, return. You return to the right intention. You see, your mind wants to say this about a person that's unwholesome. You recognize that, you release, relax, re-smile, return, and use wholesome speech, or don't say anything at all. That's the best right speech, is noble silence.
Supramundane Right View
So this is how you do it. And so you keep doing this until you have an experience. And then you have what's known as supramundane right view. Supramundane right view happens at the level of stream entry, where you start to understand the Four Noble Truths. First, you understand suffering. You abandon the causes and conditions for suffering. You experience and realize the cessation of suffering, and you cultivate the path leading to the cessation of suffering until that becomes completely perfected. And then you open up the supramundane path, the rest of the supramundane path: the right intention, which is now inclining mind towards Nibbana. The right speech, which is intuitive speech, knowing what to say, when to say, whether to say it or not.
Not using intuition. Right action, which is all ultimately automatic. You don't break any precepts. Right livelihood: your mind is geared towards creating benefit for people, not causing harm to people, to beings. Right effort starts to become more and more automatic. Right mindfulness becomes more and more sharp, and right collectedness becomes much easier. And then, once you've perfected the path, you enter into arahatship. And guess what? You've unlocked two more bonuses. And now you have the tenfold path for the arahant. That is Sammanana, which is right knowledge, and Sammavimutti, which is right liberation.
Right knowledge is what? The complete understanding of the Four Noble Truths, yes, and of dependent origination. Being able to see dependent origination in every single way: forward, reverse, backwards, sideways, upside down, inside out. Being able to see it in every single way. So the knowledge that arises, and that knowledge liberates. What is that liberation? Knowing that you are liberated, which means no more suffering, no more samsara. And the mind now unlocks the ability to go into Nibbana whenever it wants. You can just incline your mind towards Nibbana, let go of all causes and conditions, boom, you hit Nibbana. Pretty cool skill to have, right? So this is quite possible for everyone, if they continue to perfect the path, if they continue to apply the path.
Taking Care of the Dhamma
So one of the things Bhante Vimalaramsi would say is, if you take care of the Dhamma, the Dhamma will take care of you. And what that means is, if you keep the precepts, continue meditating, if you continue to cultivate insights, you will be protected. You will be protected from unwholesome states of mind. You'll be protected from situations that can cause you to break precepts, and you'll be protected, on a larger scale, from situations that can cause harm to you. Your intuition starts to increase, and that is the perfection of the path: to go from the thinking mind to the intuitive mind, go from trying to analyze everything to allowing intuition to show you the path, allowing intuition to guide you through samsara. Are there any questions?
Questions on Cessation and Rest
Yes, and actually the Buddha had talked about this. He said, I do meditation for two reasons. One is because it's a pleasant abiding. It creates relaxation in the body. You've been walking for a long time through a journey or whatever, down rest in meditation. And the second is out of compassion, to inspire future generations, so being an example for others. This is why. Would he always be in cessation? No, he could choose to be in the first jhana for one day. He can choose to be in the second jhana the next day. Actually, there's a sutta where Ananda asks Sariputta, he says, oh, wow, your faculties are very clear, you're beaming. What's going on?
And Sariputta says, well, I've just been in the first jhana all day long. Or I've been in the second jhana all day long, and so on, until cessation. And he says, my mind just inclines towards that because there is no more conceit to prevent me from going from one state to the other. It just happens immediately. But they can go to cessation whenever they want, and they can touch Nibbana whenever they want. Why would they go into cessation? Because it's absolute rest for the mind and body. In cessation, as I said, there's no more incoming traffic of the sensory data. It's absolutely clear, absolutely still. So a lot of rest in that.
Typically, how long do you stay in this cessation? Seven days, they say in the suttas. They say after seven days you die, but so far no one has tried it. It can be five seconds, a second. Any other questions? So is there a way that we can connect the practice to, for example, falling asleep? Or just sleep in general, in some sense? No, just sleep. Just sleep. Because then what happens is, okay, now you try to become very mindful of what's going on, and then your mind becomes overly energetic, and then you can't sleep. And what if the process of falling asleep is already very energetic, or agitated, for example, in my case?
You should probably go for a walk. Get that energy reduced. Read a book, watch a show, and fall asleep. It's all about really using the energy in such a way that it doesn't create too much in the mind. You want to sleep in a way that your mind is balanced. If there's too much energy, then you can try tranquilizing, relaxing, but maybe that actually uplifts the mind to such an extent that it becomes brighter, right? But until you're able to see what's going on in every stage of sleep, which is not necessary but it can happen, it's better to exercise that energy in some way so that the mind and body feel tired enough to actually go into sleep. Thank you. Yes, I forgot to ask in the interview, maybe it's a good question.
When you are in quiet mind, you said that mind will throw to you many, many things. So how can I make the difference between insights or just activity in the mind? Because I know there are insights. Yeah. When you let time to settle that insights? After the meditation? After the meditation. Not right there and then. Because that's the thing. When you go back into...
So after you come out of the meditation and you go back into what happened right after the meditation, then certain things will pop up in your mind, either things that you have to let go of, the 6R's, or certain insights that you can write down and explore. So don't stop meditation. Have the insights and then continue. Yeah. Let it flow, let it flow. After that, at the end, do a replay. Yeah, okay. The disenchantment, is that a gradual process, like the whole process, as a result of developing equanimity in the mind? But secondly, the disenchantment arises when you've sort of had enough. And you can't have enough unless you've actually had enough.
Absorbing Energy and Music
That's not gradual. Right. Yeah. Yes. In this metta meditation, we have to do a lot of radiation work, to do all by ourselves. We radiate to ourselves, to six directions, and we give forgiveness. And it never goes the other way, like taking sunshine to be uplifted, take a tree. Or like as a beginner, there are so many people radiating in six directions, loving kindness, so I have a leg just sit in the middle, get it from six directions, I'm done. Why don't we do it the other way round? I think that's a great idea. Yeah, just sit out in nature and sort of absorb the energy of the environment around you. Yes, getting absorbed and feeling happy about it and having an exchange. Okay, so you take it in, and then you hearing music, or even visiting a concert, is a very strong experience. There's a lot of contact, there's a lot of emotions, sometimes aggressive, but also all kinds of other feelings.
What about doing this in relation to the meditation practice? Yeah. So I think one of the precepts is abstaining from listening to music and dancing, for whatever reason. But the idea is that you don't want to create too much agitation in the body and in the mind. But when you go out into the lay life, you know, to go here and there, and you might go for a concert, those are moments for you to exercise your equanimity, see how well you can stand the music, see how well you can just be there and not allow the mind to become enamored by it. Easier said than done, because some music is really great, but at the same time, see if you can enjoy the music without getting too attached to the emotions that come up. But why is this a precept to not sing or not dance?
This is primarily a precept from monastics, because I think it would be cool to see some dancing monastics, but... But back in the day, it might not have been great optics, let's say. A lot of the precepts that are there, sometimes, especially now, as we understand it, for the monks, it's 227. And for Bhikkhunis, it's 311 precepts. Thank goodness you're only having to follow eight.
So a lot of the precepts that arose in the Vinaya was due to some situation that happened, and to create a certain kind of sanctity to the Sangha, create some kind of perception of the Sangha as being collected and not doing things that other lay people would do. So to create a certain distinction between the monastic Sangha and the lay Sangha. Dancing and singing was more related to, back in the day of the time of the Buddha in ancient India, more related to what's known as Kama. So in ancient India, you had four pursuits. You had Dharma, Artha, Kama, Moksha. So Dharma meant education in this context. Artha meant to accumulate wealth. Kama meant pleasure, the seeking of pleasure.
And Moksha was towards enlightenment, towards awakening. So Kama would include things like enjoying music, enjoying dancing, enjoying plays, enjoying concerts, things like that. And so it was not appropriate for monastics to do that, because their pursuit is the pursuit of awakening. But after you come off a retreat, dance all you want. Sing all you want. Listen to music all you want. You guys are lay people. That's okay.
Letting Go of Adult Children
Yeah. I just want to get gentle advice from you regarding how to deal with children in terms of attachment, and how do you let go and be there for them all the time? Are you talking about adult children? Yeah, like university children, be independent, right? At that time they're adults and they want to do their own thing. And I think it's difficult for parents to sometimes be okay with that, and you have to learn to adjust and be okay with that. And so, you know, there's a sutta, which is Digha Nikaya 31, the Sigalovada Sutta, which is the advice to lay people. I would encourage you all to read it, because it's great advice.
It has advice about how you manage your money, for example. It has advice on what your responsibilities are as a parent to your child, and your responsibilities to a parent. As a parent to a child, your responsibility is that you bring them up in a way that is noble, in a way where they're keeping precepts and they're ready to go into society and be contributors to society. To that extent, that is your responsibility. After that, you focus on yourself. You focus on your own meditation, you focus on whatever it is. So he talks about all the responsibilities that different people have to each other: a parent to a child, a child to a parent, employees to employers, employers to employees, and, you know, husband to wife, wife to husband, or whatever it might be. So from there, what he says is essentially that's the responsibility of a parent. Beyond that, you know, the attachment of a parent to a child, you have to just understand now they have their own lives, and you have to let go of that.
I think it's easier said than done for most parents, but eventually parents also grow up and realize that, yeah, I can't stay attached to my children anymore. They are more dependent on you than we were with our parents. So I think that's the issue, of things we're having to, like, kick them out of the house. Yes. Yeah, it's we millennials, you know. I'm a millennial too. Parents' house till I was, what, 23, 24, and even now I don't really have a place of my own. I go back to my mother's. So I'm probably the wrong person to ask. So far she hasn't kicked me out of the house. So I think it's about inculcating the understanding of life for your child, that after a while you have to become more responsible for yourself and towards others.
And maybe it takes time for children. Back in the time of ancient India, it's not like after you were 18 you had to leave the house. You were still in the family unit, let's say. It was usually after you get married that you leave the house. But aside from that, it's about developing a career so that you have a life of your own, and now it's time for you to do that. And sometimes what's required is sternness from the parent, right? And that could be different things. That could be, maybe, charging rent. No, I'm serious. Then they're motivated to say, okay, all right, I've got to go find a job now. Yes. So I would like to ask you about the meditation experience I had today.
Experience of Cessation in Nature
I wasn't doing so much formal meditation, but I was outside in the garden and walking, and it was very, my mind was quiet. And then I sat down on a park bench and I was just watching stuff as it was happening. And then at some point I kind of opened my eyes and I was just looking at what was in front of me, and I had this impression that it wasn't one thing I was looking at, but it was coming and going all the time. And at some point it started to slow down, and it felt almost like you're driving the car and you're going off the gas and the engine starts to stutter. Is that, and then I was like, oh wow, what's happening? Yeah. But is that what it could feel like when mind moves towards cessation? Yes, yes, things start to slow down, and sometimes they'll slow down to a point where everything just halts. It's like the mind is frozen. So that can happen too. Okay. You have a question?
Questions on Pain and Medication
Yes. So when a person is in the process of dying, and there can be anxiety and pain, of course, and if you then use morphine, which eases the pain and eases the anxiety, but they dull the mind, so would that be beneficial? Obviously it keeps away aversion. Yeah, but how to... Yes. I think you'll have different answers for this question depending upon a teacher, I would say, but for me I would say that if you are reducing the pain, the bodily pain of a person, using morphine, then that's better because they won't be so anxious. And yes, they might be dull, but in that process you can send them loving kindness, you can speak loving and kind words, see if you can try to uplift them if it's possible.
So I don't see anything wrong with using painkillers and morphine at that stage of life. Just to add, Bhante Vimalaramsi, I heard him say in a talk that he doesn't even advise taking a normal painkiller like aspirin, because that would affect the meditation so intensely. So if one of us has headaches or some sort of pain, would you recommend painkillers? Or would you not? Depends on what it is. Because if you can see that the headache is happening because your mind is trying too hard, and you relax and you tranquilize and it goes away, that's one thing. If you have a migraine, for example, what are you going to do with that?
You can't relax that. So you'll have to use something in order to ease the pain. Completely fine by my book. At the time of the Buddha, the Buddha had a lot of back pain. What did he do? Yes, he could go into the fourth jhana and reduce that pain. But he took medication. He took different kinds of suggestions by his physician, Jivaka. And so there's nothing against using medication in the suttas. In fact, one of the requisites for a monastic is medicine. Absolutely okay. Just depends on what kind of medication and what kind of effect it has. So you need to see for yourself if it's causing too much dullness in the mind. Maybe you reduce the dosage and see what works for you.
Closing and Sharing Merit
Any other questions? Before we share some merit, I just want to say thank you to each and every one of you for attending this retreat. It has been quite a pleasure to interview all of you. Christian for organizing the retreat and Venerable Bassa for helping out with the morning precepts, giving her own wisdom and helping with the interviews. Let's share some merit. Thank you. May suffering ones be suffering free and the fear struck fearless be. May the grieving shed all grief and may all beings find relief. May all beings share this merit that we have thus acquired for the acquisition of all kinds of happiness. May beings inhabiting space and earth, devas and nagas of mighty power share this merit of ours. May they long protect the Buddha's dispensation. Sadhu, Sadhu, Sadhu. Thank you.