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Oct 25 2020 - MN105 - To Sunakkhatta - The Power of Letting go

26 October 2020 Talk 1 h 1 min

Lightly edited transcript Filler words and caption errors removed by machine; the meaning is unchanged.

Delson reads and comments on MN105 (Sunakkhatta Sutta), in which the Buddha says some monks who declare final knowledge do so rightly and others overestimate themselves. He argues that each practitioner must judge their own attainments by watching for shifts in reaction and perception, and he explains the stages of awakening through the fetters. He then describes the jhanas and formless attainments as a process of letting go that leads toward cessation and Nibbana, and closes with a short Q&A on entering nibbana from the lower jhanas and on formations.

Key points

  • The Buddha says some monks who declare final knowledge do so rightly and others out of overestimation, so Delson says each practitioner must be their own judge of attainment.
  • Signs of progress are a shift in how you react to situations and whether craving, ill will or the fetters still arise, not a certificate.
  • In the MN105 arrow simile, the arrow is craving and the poisonous humor is ignorance, and a mind intent on Nibbana does not pursue unsuitable objects through the six senses.
  • Delson describes the jhanas as a process where the factors of lower jhanas fall away as you move higher, and the mind lets go on its own when you simply watch it.
  • Each act of letting go is a mundane taste of Nibbana, and daily responses to sensory experience train the same letting go that the deeper practice needs.

Suttas in this talk

Each opens the sutta on SuttaCentral.

Themes

The jhanas · Cessation · Awakening · Dependent origination

Where this talk sits on the path

This talk speaks mostly to Neither-perception-nor-non-perception, and also to Nothingness / equanimity. It follows the thread of Sutta study series.

The path runs from Foundations to Arahant; read at any point along it.

Transcript

Introduction to the Sutta

0:11

Good morning, good afternoon, good evening everyone. Today we're going to be discussing Sunakkhatta Sutta. This is Majjhima Nikaya 105. So let me start. Thus have I heard. On one occasion the Blessed One was living in Vesali, in the Great Wood, in the hall with the peaked roof. Now on that occasion, a number of bhikkhus had declared final knowledge in the presence of the Blessed One, thus: We understand.

0:46

Birth is destroyed. The holy life has been lived. What had to be done has been done. There is no more coming to any state of being. Then Sunakkhatta, son of the Lichavis, went to the Blessed One, and after paying homage to him, he sat down on one side and said to the Blessed One: In the presence of the Blessed One, did they do so rightly, or are there some bhikkhus here who have declared final knowledge because they overestimate themselves?

1:40

When those bhikkhus declared final knowledge in my presence, there were some bhikkhus who declared final knowledge rightly, and there were some who declared final knowledge because they overestimated themselves. Therein, when bhikkhus declare final knowledge rightly, their declaration is true. But when bhikkhus declare final knowledge because they overestimate themselves, the Tathagata thinks: I should teach them the Dhamma. Thus it is in this case, Sunakkhatta, that the Tathagata thinks: I should teach them the Dhamma.

2:16

But some misguided men formulate a question, come to the Tathagata and ask it. The Dhamma? He changes his mind. This is the time, Blessed One. This is the time, Sublime One, for the Blessed One to teach the Dhamma. Having heard it from the Blessed One, the bhikkhus will remember it. Then listen, Sunakkhatta, and attend closely to what I shall say. Yes, venerable sir, Sunakkhatta, son of the Lichavis, replied to the Blessed One. The Blessed One said this: There are, Sunakkhatta, these five chords of sensual pleasure. What are the five?

3:05

Forms cognizable by the eye that are wished for, desired, agreeable, and likable, connected with sensual desire and provocative of lust. Sounds cognizable by the ear, odors cognizable by the nose, flavors cognizable by the tongue, tangibles cognizable by the body that are wished for, desired, agreeable, and likable, connected with sensual desire and provocative of lust. These are the five chords of sensual pleasure.

·

It is possible, Sunakkhatta, that some person here may be intent on worldly material things. When a person is intent on worldly material things, only talk concerning that interests him, and pondering is in line with that, and he associates with that kind of person, and he finds satisfaction in that. But when talk about the imperturbable is going on, he will not listen to it, or give it ear, or exert his mind to understand it. He does not associate with that kind of person, and he does not find satisfaction in that. Suppose a man, some time ago, had been to a village or town, and he were to see another man who had only recently left that village or town. He would ask that man whether the people of that town or village were safe, prosperous, and healthy.

4:43

And that man would tell him whether the people of that village or town were safe, prosperous, and healthy. What do you think, Sunakkhatta? Would that first man listen to him, give him ear, and exert his mind to understand? Yes, Venerable Sir. So too, Sunakkhatta, it is possible that some person here may be intent on worldly material things. When a person is intent on worldly material things, and he does not find satisfaction in that, he should be understood as a person who is intent on worldly material things. It is possible, Sunakkhatta, that some person here may be intent on the imperturbable. When a person is intent on the imperturbable, only talk concerning that interests him, and his thinking and pondering are in line with that, and he associates with that kind of person, and he finds satisfaction in that.

·

But when talk about worldly material things is going on, he will not listen to it, or give it ear, or exert his mind to understand it. He does not associate with that kind of person, satisfaction in that. Just as a yellow leaf that has fallen from its stalk is incapable of becoming green again, so too, Sanakata. When a person is intent on the imperturbable, he has shed the fetter of worldly material things. He should be understood as a person detached from the fetter of worldly material things who is intent on the imperturbable. It is possible, Sunakatha, that some person here may be intent on the base of nothingness. When a person is intent on the base of nothingness, only talk concerning that interests him, and his thinking and pondering are in line with that, and he associates with that kind of person, and he finds satisfaction in that.

·

But when talk about the imperturbable is going on, ear or exert his mind to understand it. He does not associate with that kind of person, and he does not find satisfaction in that. Just as a thick stone that is split in two cannot be joined together again, so too, Sanakata, when a person is intent on the base of nothingness, his fetter of the imperturbable has been split. He should be understood as a person detached from the fetter of the imperturbable. who is intent on the base of nothingness. It is possible, Sanakata, that some person here may be intent on the base of neither perception nor non-perception. When a person is intent on the base of neither perception nor non-perception, only talk concerning that interests him, and his thinking and pondering are in line with that, person, and he finds satisfaction in that.

·

But when talk about the base of nothingness is going on, he will not listen to it or give it ear, or exert his mind to understand it. He does not associate with that kind of person, and he does not find satisfaction in that. Suppose a person has eaten some delicious food and thrown it up. What do you think, Sunakkhatta? Could that man have any desire to eat that food again? Why is that? Because that food is considered repulsive. So too, Sunakkhatta, when a man is intent on the base of neither perception nor non-perception, his fetter of the base of nothingness has been rejected. He should be understood as a person detached from the fetter of the base of nothingness who is intent on the base of neither perception nor non-perception.

·

It is possible, Sunakkhatta, that some person here may be completely intent on Nibbana. When a person is completely intent on Nibbana, only talk concerning that interests him, and his thinking and pondering are in line with that, and he associates with that kind of person, and he finds satisfaction in that. But when talk about the base of neither perception nor non-perception is going on, he will not listen to it or give it ear, or exert his mind to understand it. He does not associate with that kind of person, and he does not find satisfaction in that. Just as a palm tree with its top cut off is incapable of growing again, so too, Sunakkhatta, when a person is completely intent on Nibbana, his fetter of the base of neither perception nor non-perception has been cut off.

10:00

Cut off at the root, made like a palm stump, done away with so that it is no longer subject to future arising. He should be understood as a person detached from the fetter of the base of neither perception nor non-perception, who is completely intent on Nibbana. It is possible, Sunakkhatta, that some bhikkhus here might think thus: Craving has been called an arrow by the recluse. The poisonous humor of ignorance is spread about by desire, lust, and ill will.

·

That arrow of craving has been removed from me. The poisonous humor of ignorance has been expelled. I am one who is completely intent on Nibbana. Since he conceives himself thus, though it is contrary to fact, he might pursue those things that are unsuitable for one completely intent on Nibbana. He might pursue the sight of unsuitable forms with the eye. He might pursue unsuitable sounds with the ear, unsuitable odors with the nose, unsuitable flavors with the tongue, unsuitable tangibles with the body, or unsuitable mind objects with the mind. When he pursues the sight of unsuitable forms with the eye, unsuitable sounds with the ear, unsuitable odors with the nose, unsuitable flavors with the tongue, unsuitable tangibles with the body, unsuitable mind objects with the mind, lust invades his mind.

·

With his mind invaded by lust, he would incur death or deadly suffering. Suppose, Sunakkhatta, a man were wounded by an arrow thickly smeared with poison, and his friends and companions, his kinsmen and relatives, brought a surgeon. Then he would probe for the arrow with the probe. Then he would pull out the arrow and would expel the poisonous humor, leaving a trace of it behind.

·

Thinking that no trace was left behind, he would say: Good man, the arrow has been pulled out from you. The poisonous humor has been expelled with no trace left behind, and it is incapable of harming you. Eat only suitable food. Do not eat unsuitable food, or else the wound may fester. From time to time wash the wound, and from time to time anoint its opening, so that pus and blood do not cover the opening of the wound. Do not walk in the wind and sun, or else dust and dirt may infect the opening of the wound. Take care of your wound, good man, and see to it that the wound heals.

·

The man would think the arrow has been pulled out from me. left behind and it is incapable of harming me he would eat unsuitable food and the wound would separate he would wash the wound from he would not wash the wound from time to time nor would he anoint its opening from time to time and pus and blood would cover the opening of the wound he would walk around in the wind and sun and dust and dirt would infect the opening of the wound he would not take care of his wound nor would he see to it that his wound heals. Then both because he does what is unsuitable and because a trace was left behind when the foul poisonous humor was expelled, the wound would swell and with its swelling he would incur death or deadly suffering.

·

So too, Sunakkhatta, it is possible that some bhikkhu here might think thus: Craving has been called an arrow by the recluse. The poisonous humor of ignorance is spread about by desire, lust, and ill will. That arrow of craving has been removed from me. The poisonous humor of ignorance has been expelled. I am one who is completely intent upon Nibbana. Because he conceives himself thus, though it is contrary to fact, he might pursue things that are unsuitable for one completely intent on Nibbana. With his mind invaded by lust, he would incur death or deadly suffering. For it is death in the discipline of the Noble One, Sunakkhatta, when one abandons the training and reverts to the low life, and it is deadly suffering when one commits defiled offence.

·

It is possible, Sunakkhatta, that some bhikkhu here might think thus: Craving has been called an arrow by the recluse. The poisonous humor of ignorance is spread about by desire, lust, and ill will. That arrow of craving has been removed from me. The poisonous humor of ignorance has been expelled. I am one who is completely intent on Nibbana. Being one who is completely intent on Nibbana, he would not pursue those things that are unsuitable for one completely intent on Nibbana. He would not pursue the sight of unsuitable forms with the eye. He would not pursue unsuitable sounds with the ear, unsuitable odors with the nose, unsuitable flavors with the tongue, unsuitable tangibles with the body, or unsuitable mind objects with the mind.

·

And because he does not pursue the sight of unsuitable forms with the eye, sounds with the ear, unsuitable odors with the nose, unsuitable flavors with the tongue, unsuitable tangibles with the body, or unsuitable mind objects with the mind, lust does not invade his mind. Because his mind is not invaded by lust, he would not incur death or deadly suffering poison, and his friends and companions, his kinsmen and relatives, brought a surgeon. The surgeon would cut around the opening of the wound with a knife. Then he would probe for the arrow with the probe. Then he would pull out the arrow and would expel the poisonous humor without leaving a trace of it behind. Knowing that no trace was left behind, he would say, from you.

·

The poisonous humor has been expelled with no trace left behind, and it is incapable of harming you. Eat only suitable food. Do not eat unsuitable food, or else the wound may separate. From time to time, watch the wound, and from time to time, anoint its opening, so that pus and blood do not cover the opening of the wound, and wind and sun, or else dust and dirt, may infect the opening of the wound. Take care of your wound, good man, and see to it that the wound heals. The man would think: The arrow has been pulled out for me. The poisonous humor has been expelled with no trace left behind, and it is incapable of harming me.

17:50

He would eat only suitable food, and the wound would not suppurate. And from time to time he would wash the wound, and from time to time he would anoint its opening, and pus and blood would not cover the opening of the wound. He would not walk around in the wind and sun, and dust and dirt would not infect the opening of the wound. He would take care of his wound and would see to it that the wound heals. Then, both because he does what is suitable and because no trace was left behind when the foul, poisonous humor was expelled, the wound would heal, and because it had healed and was covered with skin, he would not incur death or deadly suffering.

·

So too, Sunakkhatta, it is possible that some bhikkhus here might think thus: Craving has been called an arrow by the recluse. The poisonous humor of ignorance is spread about by desire, lust, and ill will. pulled out from me. The poisonous humor of ignorance has been expelled. I am one who is completely intent on Nibbana. Being one who is completely intent on Nibbana, he would not pursue those things unsuitable for one completely intent on Nibbana. Because his mind is not invaded by lust, he would not incur death or deadly suffering. Sunakkhatta, I have given this simile in order to convey a meaning. This is the meaning here. Wound is a term for the sixth internal basis.

19:42

Poisonous humor is a term for ignorance. Arrow is a term for craving. Probe is a term for mindfulness. Knife is a term for noble wisdom. Surgeon is a term for the Tathagata, the accomplished one, the fully enlightened one. That bhikkhu, Sunakkhatta, is one who practices restraint in the six bases of contact. Having understood that acquisition is the root of suffering, being acquisition-less, liberated in the destruction of acquisitions, it is not possible that he would direct his body or arouse his mind towards any acquisition. Suppose, Sunakkhatta, there were a bronze cup of beverage possessing a good color, smell, and taste, but it was mixed with poison, and a man who came who wanted to live, not to die, who wanted pleasure and recoiled from pain.

·

What do you think, Sunakkhatta? Would that man drink that cup of beverage knowing, if I drink this, I will incur death or deadly suffering? No, Venerable Sir. is one who practices restraint in the six bases of contact. Having understood that acquisition is the root of suffering, being acquisition-less, liberated in the destruction of acquisitions, it is not possible that he would direct his body or arouse his mind towards any acquisition. live, not to die, who wanted pleasure and recoiled from pain. What do you think, Sunakkhatta, would that man give that deadly poisonous snake his hand or his thumb, knowing if I am bitten by him, I will incur death or deadly suffering? No, Venerable Sir. So too, when a bhikkhu practices restraint in the six bases of contact, and having understood that attachment is the root of suffering,

Judging your own attainment

22:00

is without attachment, liberated by the destruction of attachment. It is not possible that he would direct his body or arouse his mind towards any object of attachment. This is what the Blessed One said. Sunakkhatta, son of the Licchavis, was satisfied and delighted in the Blessed One's words. So this sutta starts off in a very interesting way. The son of the Licchavis, as he's known, Sunakkhatta, hears about certain monks who declare final knowledge, which is to say they declare arahatship with the usual statement, birth is destroyed, there is no more rebirth, and so on and so forth, and he goes to the Blessed One and asks him, are all of these monks who declare final knowledge arahats? And the Buddha says that some are and some aren't. So the first thing to take from this is you have to be your own judge when it comes to your practice. When you attain cessation of perception and feeling, and then you have the nibbana experience, and understand the links of dependent origination as they arise.

24:02

What's important to see after that is, is there a personality shift? You don't get a certificate that says, congratulations, you are now a sotapanna. You have to see for yourself in the days, weeks, and months ahead how you react to situations and how you take them, how you perceive them, and see whether in your mind the fetters are still present or not.

24:41

Likewise, when you have the experience again, in the case of when you enter into sakadagami, you have to then allow the mind to see how it reacts to situations. Perhaps you will see that you have less craving arising, or that when that craving arises, or that ill will arises, it's a small blip in the mind. And before it can completely actualize and take over the mind, you have developed a level of mindfulness to let it go.

25:21

And so you have to see for yourself if this is what is happening. Then at the level of an anagami, see for yourself whether craving and ill will have been completely destroyed. See for yourself if any kind of craving or ill will arises. And then, of course, finally, when you become an arahat, you will know because you have a complete understanding of the Four Noble Truths.

25:52

And by that knowledge of the Four Noble Truths and understanding how to apply them, throughout this time in your daily practice in the meditation as well as life, through that knowledge you see that the taints, the defilements, or what I call the viruses or projections of craving, being, and ignorance, are destroyed, and thereby it topples the rest of the fetters. See in your mind at that point whether there is a craving for being, whether there is a craving for non-being, which in turn means, is there an attachment and identification with the states of mind related to the jhanas or cessation, or any of the samadhi practices within the Buddha's dispensation? And then look and see whether there is any restlessness arising in the mind, whether there is any conceit arising in the mind. Of course, if ignorance has been completely destroyed, you will know, and then you will understand once your entire perception of reality shifts.

27:11

You can no longer project onto reality any kind of filtration system through which you perceive that reality. And that filtration system is made up of all your associations that you have inherited in this lifetime as well as previous lifetimes, and how you perceive those things by taking them personal or not. So the best judge of where you are in your practice and in terms of the attainments is you yourself.

The imperturbable jhanas

27:52

Now the Buddha talks about something known as the imperturbable, mentioned several times in different suttas in the Majjhima Nikaya. It's mentioned in 106 as well. And the imperturbable is basically the fourth jhana onwards. It starts with the fourth jhana, goes into the fifth jhana, goes into the sixth jhana, in which case you have the fourth jhana, the fourth rupa jhana. You have the fifth jhana of infinite space. You have the sixth jhana of infinite consciousness, and then finally nothingness, which is completely different from the imperturbable.

28:38

In the case of the imperturbable, there is still a sense of form, material form, in terms of contact with the body, especially in the fourth jhana. And as you get higher into the fifth jhana, when you expand that loving-kindness in all directions, you start to lose touch with your body and start to enter into the immaterial jhanas, the arupa jhanas, the formless jhanas. And then as you get deeper, you enter into the sixth jhana of infinite consciousness.

29:18

This is the limit of the imperturbable. And the reason being is because the coarser parts of the jhanas associated with these factors disappear at the level of nothingness. And what I mean by that is when you enter into nothingness after having insights into infinite consciousness, and you allow your mind to sink into that nothingness from infinite consciousness, the space between each arising and passing away, and arising and passing away, of an iota of consciousness, your mind is now looking in on itself.

30:09

It's like two mirrors looking at each other. It's a reflection of a reflection. Consciousness is now aware of consciousness. Awareness is aware of awareness, which means that the mind is aware only of mind. Outside of the mind, including internal mental objects or internal thoughts that might be related to your outside world, to memories and associations, to the coarser formations related to this particular lifetime, related to things that happen throughout your day and things that have happened throughout your life, start to dissipate in that nothingness.

31:01

At that level of nothingness, you then take equanimity as your object, in which case you intend the equanimity outward. And just by this pure intention of equanimity is enough, and you just keep watching it. And the mind at this point in time becomes quite refined, but it continues to unravel and it continues to become refined, until where the intention of sending out that equanimity becomes a tense process for the mind.

31:41

At this point in time in nothingness, your mindfulness has been developed quite well and quite significantly. So in that process, your mind is able to automatically 6R. Now, the Buddha talks about different kinds of analogies or similes and metaphors in relation to each of the jhanas and the higher jhanas as you get higher and higher. And what he's referring to is as you get higher into the jhanas, the factors of the lower jhanas start to disappear.

32:22

You can see it for yourself from the first jhana onwards. In the first jhana you have thinking and examining thought, or application of thought, and the bliss and rapture and so on, but then the thinking and the examination of thought disappear in the second jhana, and then the bliss, that intense bliss, starts to subside in the third jhana, and you start to get into equanimity in the fourth jhana. And now you have a steady presence of mind, having had the other factors of the lower jhanas no longer present, signifying factors of those jhanas are no longer present.

33:05

And then when you get into the infinite space, the factors of the four jhanas start to disappear and you are more aware of the perception of infinite space. So in other words, as you get higher and higher into the jhanas, your mind automatically lets go of these factors. You don't have to do anything, let them go. You just have to watch your mind, and the mind will do its job in letting go, because as the feeling that you observe, whether it's loving kindness or compassion or whatever it may be from the brahmaviharas, that particular feeling will start to evolve on its own, and you are seeing firsthand the experience of the impersonal nature of reality and of the jhanas themselves.

34:06

As the feeling evolves from bliss to joy to equanimity in the first four jhanas, the experience you're having, actually, is the factors of those four jhanas. But as you continue to stay with your object, allowing your mind to be undistracted by those factors, it changes into compassion. The quality of that feeling softens into compassion. And that is the base of infinite space. Or in other words, that is the object of meditation in infinite space, where the awareness of metta starts to expand all across boundless space.

34:54

And then that feeling changes, and therefore the factors of the jhana also change into infinite consciousness. As we've talked about before, when you start to expand the limits of space, or really not the limits, but the limits of the periphery of your vision, if you are a visually oriented person, you might start to see a ring of light around your peripheral vision.

35:23

And they might start to shimmer and shine and flicker and all kinds of things, of infinite consciousness. Or, as I said, in terms of the other senses, you'll start to hear flickering or in and out, from your sense of touch, your sense of taste and odors in the nose, and so on and so forth. Or you might start to see a spaciousness in your thoughts.

35:51

Now, when you get into infinite consciousness, you have left the perception of infinite space. Therefore, you don't tend your mind towards the factors of infinite space. It's a natural progression. Such a mind is bent towards infinite consciousness. And then as you start to see your mind, start to observe this infinite consciousness and the frames of reality in terms of the sensory experiences that are arising and passing away, as they start to flicker, and start to expand in terms of the space in between each flickering, you get into nothingness.

36:39

And then when you get into that nothingness, you have lost the perception of infinite consciousness. You have let go of that perception of infinite consciousness. Now, as you deepen your practice in that nothingness, you have a tendency in the mind now to look for that neither perception or non-perception. And when you enter into neither perception or non-perception, it's a matter of letting go of the perception of nothingness.

37:13

It's a matter of letting go of the formations that create that experience of nothingness in that particular jhana. And in letting go of those formations, the mind gets tired of the perception of nothingness, lets go of it and is bent on towards neither perception or non-perception. When then you enter neither perception or non-perception, here is the part where your mind becomes fully refined to the point that it becomes radiant, clear, quiet, tranquil, luminous.

37:52

And it becomes so refined that you take it as an object itself. It is this tranquil mind that rests within itself even further and deeper into itself. And as this happens, you start to enter the factors of neither perception or non-perception, which is to say, you start to have that experience of lucid, deep sleep, and you start to perhaps experience certain subtle formations.

38:25

Now your mind has completely forgotten about nothingness. Completely about infinite consciousness. Your mind is completely forgotten about infinite space. Because it is a natural progression, because you have allowed the time and space for your mind to unravel in this manner, and because it's so fluid and natural, it easily slips into neither perception or non-perception. And slipping into it, you have no attention towards the other factors of the preceding jhanas.

39:04

Now at this point, your mind becomes quite subtle, as I said. And as it becomes subtle, you have certain balancing acts to do, as it were. Now your mind will become so empty of any formations that are arising, because they arise very less frequently or infrequently, that there is only this perception, if you will, of this tranquil mind, but nothing else is being perceived.

39:40

And as you start to deepen your mind into this, and you start to see the subtle formations that are arising, your mind will automatically 6R them, completely let go of them, come back to that tranquil mind. That's the feeling that it's like. And then your mind might slope towards the sleepiness and sluggishness or towards restlessness. And we've talked about this before. You use the balancing factors to come back to a balanced state of tranquil mind. Into Nirodha, the edginess of mind to try to get into Nibbana, it's that craving, that's that edginess, it's that expectation that yes, now I'm going to enter into Nibbana or I'm going to enter into Nirodha, it's that expectation. Now you need to let go of it. You have to become so content with having been in this neither perception or non-perception, and with it, which means stay with the present awareness, the unwavering and steady presence of mind within this eighth jhana, and allow the mind to completely let go.

41:16

In the process of letting go, your mind is intent towards Nibbana. Every time you let go in the 6R process, you experience Nibbana. You relax the craving and tension in the mind and body. You experience a mundane form of Nibbana. It is a clear, quiet mind that is spacious and empty, like the mind, like the sky. It's a cloudless sky. It's completely empty of any craving for those few moments, for those few moments.

41:59

And then, of course, come back to your object to continue to let the mind be steady with that object. But at this point you have refined your mind to such an extent that it will automatically 6R those subtle formations, so all there is left to do is to balance and let go. Make sure your mind still rests within itself, is content with being with itself, not bored. Boredom is a of the mentality and materiality, having been used to overstimulation of the senses of that mentality and materiality.

Cessation of perception and feeling

42:42

And that boredom can translate into sluggishness of mind, the sloth and torpor, or into the restlessness of mind, where it's seeking some kind of external experience. And so that boredom of that mind needs to be let go of and balanced through the Enlightenment factors. And as you do this, and stay with that mind, and continue to let go, continue to tend towards Nibbana by not holding on to any formations, seeing through them and not grasping, your mind will slip into cessation of perception and feeling. Let go. The first thing that happens when you emerge from cessation of perception and feeling is the letting go of the links of dependent origination, which means when the links of dependent origination arise and emerge, your mind automatically de-identifies with it.

43:52

And this is that Nibbana, the contact with the Nibbana element. Your mind does not involve a sense of self in that arising of those links, and it's just a pure seeing, a pure witnessing of the links as they arise, and up to the level of contact. And then you have the Nibbana experience at that point in time, because of the reconditioning of the mind to completely let go of any kind of self-view and the seeing of the fact that all that arises and passes away is impersonal at infinite consciousness.

44:35

And then, coming through that experience of the emergence of cessation of perception and feeling, the mind destroys the fetter of self-view. The mind no longer takes any of this to be personal, no longer takes any aspect of the body or mind, feelings, sensations, or the contents of the mind to be personal. It destroys that sense of self-view. However, there's still more work to be done in the conceit, where there is a subtle projection of sense of self in things that arise and pass away.

45:15

But the other two fetters that are important, that have been destroyed upon stream entry, is the doubt. Is the doubt that this practice will not lead to Nibbana. It's the doubt in oneself, of course, but it's also the doubt in the practice itself, because you have practiced with this path and understood that this path culminates in Nibbana, and you have investigated, experimented, and seen for yourself that this is the true path.

45:53

Because of that, you do not depend upon any other rites or rituals or other elements of practices that are different from the Eightfold Path, that are different from the jhana practice. And so you have destroyed that fetter of depending upon and considering rites and rituals and other practices leading to Nirvana. And then as you then enter into Sakadagami, you then loosen and weaken, cutting away at the chains and fetters of craving and ill will.

46:33

So at the level of the stream enterer and the stream winner, the sotapanna, the relief that is experienced is so great that you just are filled with energy and bliss from that experience. But the relief that you experience itself, breaking of the fetters and having seen this impersonal process of the links of dependent origination. You will then experience that relief again at the level of Sakadagami, and it might not be as forceful as it was, let's say, at the level of Sotapanna. Having said that, you have still made leaps and bounds by weakening those fetters. And of course, at Anagami, when you destroy those fetters, the first five lower fetters, you have basically closed off, first at the level of stream entry, the ability or the potential for the rebirth into lower realms, lower than the humans.

47:54

And then at the level of Anagami, by destroying craving, sensual craving and ill will, you destroy the potential to taking rebirth in any of the sensual realms or any of the brahma realms and have a one-way ticket to the pure abodes. But then if you destroy the higher five fetters and enter into arahatship, you close off the potential for taking birth anywhere, and you completely destroy ignorance, eradicate craving, and completely obliterate and eviscerate the defilements or the projections that lead into the fettering of these into the formations that then project the links of dependent origination tainted by these that will then lead into craving and further suffering and further rebirths.

49:01

So the whole point about this is to understand also what the Buddha talks about in relation to the five physical senses. He talks about the sensual stimulations of the five physical senses and not to take those personal. So how do you know, let's say, when you are intent upon Nibbana, that is intended towards Nibbana? It's when you start to become calmer and your mind tends towards seclusion.

49:43

It seeks seclusion. It inclines towards seclusion. And it becomes dispassionate and disinterested in sensual stimulation. This is translated not only in practical daily life. You start to see that disenchantment with sensory experiences, but within the practice itself, where, when you are in the eighth jhana, you start to become disenchanted with anything that might be arising, subtle or not. And you become disenchanted with everything.

50:19

You completely let go, and that's how you enter into Nibbana. So in every choice that you are provided, how do you act and respond? Do you respond in a way that allows you to let go of the attachment and craving or aversion and ill will towards those sensory experiences? And do you disidentify with them, or not even identify with them, and allow that feeling to arise as it is and then dissipate without your involvement?

51:04

The more you do this in your daily practice, in your daily living, the easier it is for you to let go in the subtler levels of the jhana practice. The easier it is for you to let go of the subtler levels, especially in the eighth jhana. And as you continue to do this, and if your mind is not yet slipping into cessation and having Nibbana experience, you will still find that you have a disinterest in sensory experiences.

51:38

And the mind, in that sense, continues to incline and, in that sense, have the cultivated intention, the chanda, the wholesome desire for Nibbana. This is where the balancing act also takes place, where you want to, of course, have the intention of entering cessation, but then let go of any attachment to that intention by personalizing it and saying that I am going to enter Nibbana or I am going to attain Nibbana or whatever it might be in relation to a personal sense of self.

52:16

The more you let go of the idea that you are the one in jhana or you are the one in a particular state of being, let go of that personalizing in daily living, and start to see from that perspective that everything is impersonal. Of course that experience is solidified and cemented at the level of Sotapanna, where everything is impersonal, and then finally actualized when you destroy the fetter of conceit, where you no longer project any sense of even subtle sense of self onto anything that arises or passes away.

53:04

So it's three things. In the practice, in your meditation practice, have the mindset to continue to let go. Whatever it may be, continue to let go of it through the 6R's process. And let go of the notion of self in the meditation practice. Let go of that idea of an experiencer or the attachment of craving or the aversion of ill will towards whatever is arising, and let go of the identification with the sensory experience.

53:48

Allow your mind to reflect and contemplate on this. Allow your mind that pause, that space, so that when you have that sensory experience, you don't reflexively crave. You don't reflexively avert. You don't reflexively identify with it. So, in essence, it's all about letting go. Letting go of the desire for Nibbana. Letting go for the desire of states of being. And letting go of the identification with any of these states of being. Hi, Delson. Yes. Barat here. Hi, Barat. Many thanks for doing this for us. It's a real blessing. I have a question, a practical question. Yeah. to the jhana states that you mentioned.

55:03

So how important it is to go all the way up to neither perception or non-perception to actually enter into nibbana. Would it be more relevant or is it even relevant to talk about the other jhanas to enter into perception, to enter into nibbana? It's not relevant. inclines towards Nibbana, you will find that either one of two things happens.

55:37

Your mind quickly goes through each of the jhana states because it is in the process of automatically letting go, or in whatever jhana you are, you let go to such an extent that you can experience Nibbana even from the first jhana onwards. That your ability to let go has been so well developed that you are able to let go of all the factors, let go of all the formations right there and then, and neither experience nirodha or the cessation of perception and feeling, and therefore incline towards Nibbana and experience it from the first jhana onwards. There are a few references in the suttas, as far as I understand it, where a being can enter the first jhana and from there incline the mind towards Nibbana.

56:43

So it's not necessary that it needs to be a straight route from the first to the eighth jhana all the way to cessation. It can happen that if a mind is well developed enough to be able to completely let go, cessation can occur even from the first jhana onwards. Thank you, Delson. Wonderful. So this is actually from the last talk that Delson did, for doing this by the way. Um, so last time I've, you know, been trying to study this for a while and understand that you said something about the formations that I had never understood the formations that way before, and I guess I kind of want to check my understanding, but you talked about the color, you know, we learned that for instance, we're a child and someone teaches us this color is blue, this thing.

Formations and perception

58:00

And so we learn all these concepts. And so what I understood from the last talk is that the formations is everything, all these fabrications that we have made about life. Is that a correct understanding of formations? Yes. Formations are essentially what give rise to our perceptions. And so our perceptions or the contact, feeling and perceptions, also are what condition our formations or create new formations.

58:38

So it is, as I would define it, as circles within circles of the links of dependent origination. So while there is this sort of linear flow, which is actually, if you look at it, cyclical, from ignorance, the first link of ignorance, to the twelfth link of suffering, formations to perception, there is this sort of feedback loop that is occurring. And so the way we learn things is through formations, and our learning is activated through the process of creating those formations so that they can be recognized later when we see, for example, the color blue, as I talked about last week. So when you take a look at formations

59:30

There are even subtler formations that are related to previous lifetimes that are not necessarily accessed until you enter certain states of mind. And these formations as well are temporary and impermanent. So it's important to see that while the formations are what actually rule our perception of reality, are what define our perception of reality, they can be reconditioned based on the choices that we're making in every present moment.

1:00:06

So there are formations in relation to learning and memory, and formations related to choices we make that are either rooted in wholesomeness or unwholesomeness, that are rooted in the idea of taking something personal and identifying with it, or rooted in disidentifying and not taking something personal and understanding it through the lens of the three characteristics. Okay. Thank you. I suggest we share merit. May the suffering ones be suffering free, and the fear-struck be fearless. May the grieving shed all grief, and may all beings find relief. May all beings share this merit that we have thus acquired for the acquisition of all kinds of happiness. May beings inhabiting space and earth, devas and nagas of mighty power, share this merit of ours. May they long protect the Buddha's dispensation. Thadu, Thadu, Thadu.