Deerpark Retreat Day 6 'Mental Proliferation' & Guided Meditation w/Delson Armstrong

I am going to go over two suttas. The first sutta is going to be about mental food. And the second sutta, it will be like a guided meditation. So when I tell you to, close your eyes, and then we'll go over that sutta. So the first sutta is Majjhima Nikaya 18, the Honeyball Sutta. Madhupindika Sutta. Thus have I heard. On one occasion the Blessed One was living in the Sakyan country at Kapilavatthu in Nigrodha's park.

Then, when it was morning, the Blessed One, dressed and taking his bowl and outer robe, went into Kapilavatthu for alms. When he had wandered for alms in Kapilavatthu and had returned from his alms round, after his meal he went to the great wood, for the day's abiding, the day's abiding meaning meditating for the rest of the day.

And entering the great wood, he sat down at the root of a bilva sapling for the day's abiding. Dandapani the Sakyan, while walking and wandering for exercise, also went to the great wood. And when he had entered the great wood, he went to the bilva sapling where the Blessed One was, and exchanged greetings with him. When this courteous and amiable talk was finished, he stood at one side leaning on his stick and asked the Blessed One, what does the recluse assert? What does he proclaim? Dandapani was the Buddha's, I believe, maternal uncle.

And he had a bit of a chip on his shoulder against the Buddha, because he had married his daughter. And obviously after leaving and so on, he didn't really like what the Buddha had done. More than that, Dandapani was also someone who did not subscribe to the Dhamma. He was always challenging the Buddha. He subscribed to other views.

So here Dandapani was trying to get the Buddha into a debate, and the Buddha says, what I teach and what I assert is basically not to quarrel with anyone. And the reason is, because the perceptions no more underlie that brahmin. Now when he says brahmin here, he's referring to an arahant, one who is fully awakened, who abides detached from sensual pleasures, no longer is interested in sensual pleasures, no longer is affected by sensual pleasures.

Without perplexity, no more doubt about the Buddha, Dhamma, Sangha, no more doubt about what is wholesome and unwholesome. Shorn of worry, no more restlessness and remorse. Free from craving for any kind of being, no more craving for jhana, craving for formless realms, craving for existence, craving for non-existence. In other words, all fetters are gone in such a being, in such a life. When this was said, Dandapani the Sakyan shook his head, wagged his tongue, and raised his eyebrows until his forehead was puckered in three lines.

Didn't like that answer, did he? Then he departed, leaning on his stick. Then, when it was evening, the Blessed One rose from meditation and went into Nigrodha's park, where he sat down on a seat made ready for him and told the bhikkhus what had taken place. Then a certain bhikkhu asked the Blessed One, but Venerable Sir, how does the Blessed One proclaim his teaching in such a way that he does not quarrel with anyone in this world, with its gods, its maras, and its brahmas, in this generation with its recluses and brahmins?

If nothing is found there to delight in, so again, whatever experience we're having, if you see everything as being impermanent and impersonal, then the mind automatically doesn't hold on to it. It just sees it for what it actually is. That self-conceit, that little I, that's there always in the mind, is not present to compare: that this feels good to me, or that this feels bad to me, that this is painful to me, or this is pleasurable to me. Instead, there is the observation, the mindfulness that says, or the awareness that says, this is pleasant, this is unpleasant.

Just tweaking that a little is also a good exercise in your mind. Divorce the I from the experience. Whatever is pleasant, whatever is unpleasant, whatever is neutral, in your mind, wherever there is the notion, this is pleasurable to me, this is unpleasant to me, this is me, or this is neutral in my mind. You can switch the language and say, here is a pleasant feeling. Here is an unpleasant feeling. Here is a neutral feeling. Just that little switch as an exercise can show you how it changes, how the mindset is based on having the I, and based on just seeing things as they actually are.

So if nothing is found there to delight in, that is to say, how does one delight in it? How does one welcome and hold on to something? There needs to be an I. There needs to be a me there to hold on to something. If that is gone, then that is the end of the underlying tendency to lust, to aversion, to views, to doubt, to conceit, to desire for being, and to ignorance. These are the underlying tendencies that bridge feeling to full-blown craving in the line of dependent origination.

If the mind doesn't have that self-concept, doesn't superimpose an I on an experience, which happens almost automatically in most minds, they see something and they immediately compare it to how does it affect me, how does it affect that sense of me. But if you just let go of that and see things as they are, then those underlying tendencies don't arise.

So what are these underlying tendencies? In the case of a pleasant feeling, the underlying tendency towards wanting that, towards owning that, towards possessing that, arises, towards holding on to it so that it doesn't slip away, because it feels good to the me. That happens when there's a pleasant experience. In an unpleasant experience, the underlying tendency towards aversion arises.

This is painful to me. Get it away from me. Push it away. I don't like this. The underlying tendency to ignorance can be present in the pleasant feeling, the unpleasant feeling, and the neutral feeling. So these first two underlying tendencies, to craving and to aversion, respectively, are for or underlying pleasant feeling and unpleasant feeling. But the rest of those underlying tendencies can underlie any quality of feeling: pleasant, unpleasant, or neutral.

The underlying tendency to views, having a wrong view about this or that. Primarily saying that this feeling is me, mine, myself. Having the idea that this feeling is permanent, and views about it. Or even in general having opinions about the experience. That's the mind that always notes what's going on. That's the part of the mind that always judges what's going on.

If you notice the mind is starting to judge what's going on, let that go. Come back to the mind that's quiet and just quietly observing everything. The underlying tendency to doubt. Doubt about what? Doubt about what is wholesome and unwholesome. It can lead to confusion. Not about what the pleasant experience is or what the experience is in general, but in relation to: is this beneficial for the mind's development or not? So doubt, not in the Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha, but doubt in relation to what is wholesome and unwholesome. The underlying tendency to conceit, right, that is primarily saying, this is me, this is mine, this is myself. That's dependent upon having self-view.

Taking one or more of the experiences, or one or more of the six sense bases, or one or more of the five aggregates, or one or more of the contacts, the feelings, the perceptions, the intentions, taking the I, consciousness, your consciousness, nose consciousness, tongue consciousness, body consciousness, mind consciousness, as this is mine, this is me, this is myself. The underlying tendency to desire for being.

You see a pleasant experience, or you have a pleasant experience, and you say, I want this to continue. I hope this never ends. Or if it's a painful feeling, you say, I hope this goes away. The desire to be this or to be that, to be away from that, or to be more of that, to possess more of that.

And then the underlying tendency to ignorance, lack of mindfulness, lack of awareness of the experience, which leads to ignoring the four noble truths, or rather, not understanding the three characteristics of this experience. And so when all of this ends, when that self-concept is not present to judge what is going on in relation to an experience, then that is the end of resorting to rods and weapons, or quarrels, brawls, disputes, recrimination, malicious words, and false speech. They cease without remainder. Why?

Think about when you are in an argument. Or think about when somebody abuses you. When somebody shouts at you. What immediately happens? There's that sense of I. How dare they speak to me like that? Don't they know who I am? There's that intrinsic sense of I there. It feels hurt. It feels criticized. It feels just done. So when that I is gone, when that sense of self-concept is gone, how does it go? Using right effort. Somebody abuses you, somebody shouts at you. Before you react with the I, take a couple of seconds. Easier said than done, I know, but it's practice.

Take a couple of seconds to recognize the proliferation of the I coming up and trying to defend its view, defend who it thinks it is. Defend the personality. Defend that ego. Notice that happening. Relax. Let go of the ego. And then you respond. And that response will be rooted in wisdom and compassion. When somebody shouts at you, when somebody has conflict with you, they expect you to react in kind.

The fact that you don't, and you take that couple seconds pause, confuses them. Maybe they don't know it in the beginning, but it kind of confuses them in that way. This person is not returning my abuses. This person is not fighting back what's going on here. And then in their own mind, they're like, oh, I must have said something back. Maybe I should take that back.

So taking that two, three second pause allows the other person the opportunity to reflect on what they said. Not having to react to what you're going to say or what you would say. And so this is the end of brawls and quarrels. This is how you start to make peace. That is what the Blessed One said. Having said this, the Sublime One rose from his seat and went into his dwelling. Then soon, after the Blessed One had gone, the bhikkhus considered, Now, friends, the Blessed One has risen from his seat and gone into his dwelling after giving a summary in brief, without expanding the detailed meaning. Now who will expound this in detail? Then they considered, his wise companions in the holy life.

He is capable of expounding with detailed meaning. Suppose we went to him and asked him the meaning of this. Then the bhikkhus went to the Venerable Maha Kachana and exchanged greetings with him. When this courteous and admirable talk was finished, they sat down to one side and told him what had taken place, adding, let the Venerable Maha Kachana expound it to us. The Venerable Maha Kachana replied, It is as though a man needing heartwood, seeking heartwood, wandering in search of heartwood, thought that heartwood should be sought for among the branches and leaves of a great tree standing possessed of heartwood, after he had passed over the root and the trunk. And so it is with you, Venerable Sirs, that you think that I should be asked about the meaning of this, after you passed the Blessed One by, when you were face to face with the Teacher, for knowing the Blessed One knows, seeing He sees, He is vision, He is knowledge, He is the Tama, He is the Holy One, He is the Sayer, the Proclaimer, the Elucidator of meaning, the Giver of the Deathless, the Lord of the Tama, the Tathagata.

That was the time when you should have asked the Blessed One the meaning. As he told you, so you should have remembered it. Surely, Friend Kachana, knowing the Blessed One knows, he sees. He is vision, he is knowledge, he is the Dhamma, he is the Holy One. He is the Sayer, the Proclaimer, the Elucidator of Meaning, the Giver of the Deathless, the Lord of the Tama, the Tathagata. That was the time when we should have asked the Blessed One the meaning. As he told us so, we should have remembered it. The Venerable Maha Kachana is praised by the Teacher and esteemed by his wise companions in the holy life. The Venerable Maha Kachana is capable of expounding the detailed meaning of the summary given in brief by the Blessed One without expounding the detailed meaning.

Let the Venerable Maha Kachana expound it without finding it troublesome. The Maha Kachana was known to do these kinds of things. He was the one who expounded brief statements by the Buddha, and then expanded on what that was. Oftentimes you'll see in different suttas where the Buddha is saying something, and then he leaves his seat and retires for the day, and then they ask Maha Kachana to expound it, to elaborate on it. And he always spoke in terms of consciousness.

With what one has mentally proliferated as the source, perceptions and notions born of mental proliferation beset one with respect to past, future, present forms cognizable through the. So let's unpack that. First he says, what is contact? Contact is made up of three components. The sense-based, the object of the sense-based, and the sense-based consciousness. The sense-based consciousness arises dependent upon the joining of the eye and form, let's say, when it's eye consciousness. Eye contact.

If, like I said yesterday, the eye is non-functional, then there is no meeting of the eye and form, and therefore no eye consciousness, and there cannot be any contact. But if everything is functional, one can experience there is the sense-based object, and the meeting of the three is the awareness of the sense-based. Then there is contact. That's the initial spark between the sense-based and the sense-based object.

From there, there is feeling. Feeling means the seeing, the hearing, the smelling, the tasting, the touching, the thinking. This is what feeling is. Any kind of experience to be felt and sensed is feeling, vedana. What one feels, that one perceives. Tied to feeling is perception. Perception is rooted in memory. Perception is the recognition aspect of the mind, of what it experienced before. When you have seen the color red before and learned what the name of that color is, the next time you see it, you see it, meaning you experience it, and then you perceive it as red. When you learn a certain kind of language, you cognize and learn that language, right? You start to understand that language, you experience the sound waves, start to make sense of that language.

Whenever somebody speaks that language, you recognize that that's what that language is, and that's what they're saying. That recognition aspect of that is perception. So perception is always tied to feeling. These two are intertwined. In fact, there are three that are intertwined together, which we'll talk about in a couple of days. But that is feeling, perception, and consciousness. What one feels, that one perceives. What one perceives, that one cognizes.

What one cognizes, that one experiences. What one experiences, that one perceives. These three run around each other. Feeling, perception, consciousness. What one perceives, what one recognizes, in terms of that experience, one thinks about. What is this thinking about? Judging. Thinking in relation to a sense of I, me, myself. Contemplating. Analyzing. Weighing the options. Is this beneficial for me or not beneficial for me? Comparing. I learned it this way, but I remember some time back, about this in a different way. All of these different pondering and thinking.

What one thinks about that, one mentally proliferates. There is the potential for proliferation, which is the craving, the identification, rooting the identification in that experience, clinging to it with that sense of I, and then becoming that person who thinks about it, rooting the self in it, and from there, acting. With what one mentally proliferates as the source, with what one craves, claims, and becomes as the source, perceptions and notions born of mental proliferation beset the person with respect to past, future, and present forms. Craving, clinging and becoming.

Meaning views and opinions and ideas and concepts born through that process of craving, clinging and becoming. Beset one with respect to the past, future and present forms. The comparison. I experience this now and there is a comparison from the past. Or there is a looking into the future: continue on into the future or not? Or how will I feel when this leaves me?

A few days ago people were asking, what do we do off retreat? Thinking already about what's going to happen at the end of the retreat. Nothing wrong with it, but understand the thought processes that can lead to craving and suffering. And so likewise, dependent upon the ear and sounds, dependent on the nose and odors, dependent on the tongue and flavors, dependent on the body and tangibles, dependent on the mind and mind objects, these sense-based consciousnesses arise. The meaning of the three, the sense-based, the sense-based object, and the sense-consciousness is contact with consciousness. Contact as condition, there is feeling. What one feels, that one perceives. What one perceives, that one thinks about. What one thinks about, that one mentally proliferates.

With what one has mentally proliferated as the source, perceptions and notions born of mental proliferation beset a man with respect to past, future, and present sense objects cognizable through that sense space. Now listen to this. He goes even deeper. When there is the eye, a form, and eye consciousness, it is possible to point out the manifestation of contact.

In other words, you need a functional eye. Like I said earlier, you need a functional eye. You need the form. If I close my eyes, my eye is functional. But I don't see anything beyond my eyelids. There's no form then. So when there is form, there is rupa, there is color, there is form and color. And the eye makes contact with that. When there is that, there is eye consciousness. When there are these three, it is possible to denote the contact. In other words, it's possible to recognize where there is contact.

When there is a manifestation of contact, it is possible to point out the manifestation of feeling, naturally. When there is contact, the touch, the contact, then you can also have the feeling dependent upon that contact. You can denote and see where the feeling is, the experience right here and now. Your ears are functional. The sound waves are touching your ears. There is consciousness and awareness of that, and now there is an experience of hearing my voice. Therefore, you can notice or recognize the contact between the sound waves in the ear and the ear consciousness. And then you can also denote the experience of hearing.

When there is a manifestation of feeling, it is possible to point out the manifestation of perception. Through sound, you can recognize what I'm saying, in what language and what words I'm using. Perception. When there is a manifestation of perception, it is possible to point out the manifestation of thinking. You see, you feel and perceive. Everyone feels and perceives, even our hearts, even fully awakened ones feel and perceive, and even think and reflect, but the way they think and reflect does not relate to a sense of I. That's where the crux is. Noticing how the mind is experiencing something in relation to an I. Noticing if there is a superimposition of a personal self to that experience.

When there is a manifestation of thinking, it is possible to point out the manifestation of besetment by perceptions and notions born of mental proliferation. Likewise for the other sense basis. In other words, at each of these points, it's possible to use right effort to let go. If you see that your mind is thinking about this or that in relation to the past, present, future, or in relation to the I, to the me, you can recognize it. It's possible to point it out. Recognizing that there is that I there and letting it go.

So this requires clear awareness. This requires absolutely pristine mindfulness, doing, how the mind is taking in experiences. Is there that tiny little self-concept still present in everything that the mind is thinking about in relation to an experience? And if there is, you can sit through it. You can recognize, oh, I'm starting to take this personally. You relax that. Let go of that. Relax it. Come back to just the witness, back to the awareness of what is happening.

Change the wording in your mind if you have to, from "I am experiencing this" or "this is, I feel this pain" to "this is painful. This is a painful experience." Just even that little thing can help you separate the sense of self from the experience. Now he goes even further. He says, when there is no eye, form and no eye consciousness, it is impossible to point out the manifestation of contact. When there is no manifestation of contact, it is impossible to point out the manifestation of feeling.

When there is no manifestation of feeling, it is impossible to point out the manifestation of perception. When there is no manifestation of perception, it is impossible to point out the manifestation of thinking. When there is no manifestation of thinking, it is impossible to point out the manifestation of besetment by perceptions and notions born of mental proliferation. There are a few ways of understanding this. He refers to this in reference to the eye, in reference to the ear, the nose, the tongue, the body and the mind and its objects and their subsequent consciousnesses or their respective consciousnesses.

In the cessation of perception, feeling, and consciousness, there is no more experience of eye consciousness, ear consciousness, nose consciousness, body consciousness, tongue consciousness, mind consciousness. Therefore, even if the sense organs are there, but there is no awareness of that, there can be no contact which can give rise to further feeling, perception, and so on. Think about it this way. When there is contact with a hindrance, the mind recognizes that hindrance, and it can choose to continue to think about that hindrance, continue to reflect on that hindrance, continue to add and superimpose the sense of I to that hindrance, or, recognizing the experience of the hindrance, the trajectory of the mind's focus by using right effort, now there is no more thinking about that.

Now there is no more perception of that. Now there is no mental proliferation about that. So whatever experience you're having, painful, pleasant, neutral, through the sense basis or the mind, if you see craving in relation to it, if you see the mind identifying with it, there is still a possibility of letting go and loosening up that identification, using right effort. And that is dependent upon sharp and clear mindfulness.

The sharpening of mindfulness is through right effort. Right effort leads to right mindfulness. Right mindfulness leads to right collectedness. These three constitute samadhi. Every time the mindfulness is gone, you come back to life, come back to the 6R's, and regain your mindfulness and be able to let go and experience a more collected mind. Friends, when the Blessed One rose from his seat and went into his dwelling after giving a summary in brief without expounding the detailed meaning, that is, bhikkhus, as to the source through which perceptions and notions born of mental proliferation beset men with rods and weapons, of quarrels, brawls, disputes, recrimination, malicious words, and false speech. Here, these evil, unwholesome states cease without remainder.

I understand the detailed meaning of this summary to be thus. Now, friends, if you wish, go to the Blessed One and ask Him about the meaning of this. As the Blessed One explains it to you, so you should remember it. The Venerable Mahakaccana is wise among speakers. Maha Kaccana has great wisdom. In other words, he has attained, he knows right view. He sees through dependent origination. If you had asked me the meaning of this, I would have explained it to you in the same way that Maha Kaccana has explained it. Such is the meaning of this, and so you should remember it. When this was said, the Venerable Ananda said to the Blessed One, Venerable Sir, just as if a man exhausted by hunger and weakness came upon a honeyball, wherever he would taste it, he would find a sweet, delectable flavor.

So too, Venerable Sir, any able-minded bhikkhu, wherever he might scrutinize with wisdom the meaning of this discourse on the Dhamma, would find satisfaction and confidence of mind. Venerable Sir, what is the name of this discourse on the Dhamma? That, Ananda, you may remember this discourse on the Dhamma as the Honeyball Discourse. You know, when he calls it Honeyball, it makes me think of Gulab Jam. This is the Gulab Jam discourse. That is what the Blessed One said. The Venerable Ananda was satisfied and delighted in the Blessed One's words. We're going to go through the next sutta, so hold your questions, because this is a continuation of this whole process. Now we're going to guide you through this process in somewhat of a meditation through this sutta.

This sutta is Majjhima Nikaya 143, Anathapindikovada Sutta. The advice to Anathapindika. Thus have I heard. On one occasion the Blessed One was living at Savatthi in Jeta's Grove, Anathapindika's park. Now on that occasion the householder Anathapindika was afflicted, suffering and gravely ill. Then he addressed a certain man thus, "Come, good man, go to the Blessed One, pay homage in my name with your head at his feet, and say, 'Venerable Sir, the householder Anathapindika is afflicted, suffering and gravely ill.' He pays homage with his head at the Blessed One's feet. Then go to the Venerable Sariputta. Pay homage in my name with your head at his feet, and say, 'Venerable Sir, the householder Anathapindika is afflicted, suffering and gravely ill.'

He pays homage with his head at the Venerable Sariputta's feet. Then say, 'It would be good, Venerable Sir, if the Venerable Sariputta would come to the residence of the householder, Anathapindika, out of compassion.' Yes, sir, the man replied, and he went to the Blessed One. And after paying homage to the Blessed One, he sat down at one side and delivered his message. Then he went to the Venerable Sariputta, and after paying homage to the Venerable Sariputta, he delivered his message, saying, 'It would be good, Venerable Sir, if the Venerable Sariputta would come to the residence of the householder, Anathapindika, out of compassion.' The Venerable Sariputta consented in silence. Then the Venerable Sariputta, dressed and taking his bowl and outer robe, went to the residence of the householder Anathapindika with the Venerable Ananda as his attendant.

I am not getting well. Just as if a skilled butcher or his apprentice were to carve up an ox's belly with a sharp butcher's knife, so too violent winds are carving up my belly. I am not getting well. poles. So too, there is a violent burning in my body. I am not getting well. I am not comfortable. My painful feelings are increasing, not subsiding. Their increase and not their subsiding is apparent. Now, take a moment, relax, and just close your eyes and listen to the rest of the sutta. I will be reading what Sariputta is saying. Then I will be elaborating on it. Let my words just guide you through the process. to the nose, and my consciousness will not cling to the nose, be dependent on the nose.

I will not cling to the tongue, and my consciousness will not be dependent on the tongue. I will not cling to the body, and my consciousness will not be dependent on the body. I will not cling to the mind, and my consciousness will not be dependent on the mind. In other words, cling to the sense basis. I see the sense basis for what they actually are.

These sense basis are not me, not mine, not myself. My consciousness, my awareness is not tied to these sense basis. My consciousness resides independent of these sense basis. I will not cling to forms and my dependent on forms. I will not cling to sounds, and my consciousness will not be dependent on sounds. I will not cling to odors, and my consciousness will not be dependent on odors. I will not cling to flavors, and my consciousness will not be dependent on flavors. I will not cling to tangibles, and my consciousness will not be dependent on tangibles. I will not cling to mind objects, and my consciousness will not be dependent on mind objects. Everything that is an object of the sense basis, sights, sounds, smells, tastes, tangibles, mind objects, thoughts, all of that I do not see as me, mine, or myself.

objects. And the awareness of these sense objects are not dependent upon them. The awareness is not tied to them. The awareness is independent of them. They are aware, the awareness is aware of these sense-based objects. And because they are just aware, they are not the sense-based objects. The awareness of something does not mean that you are I will not cling to I-consciousness, and my consciousness will not be dependent on I-consciousness. I will not cling to your consciousness, and my consciousness will not be dependent on your consciousness. I will not cling to nose-consciousness, and my consciousness will not be dependent on nose-consciousness. on tongue consciousness. I will not cling to body consciousness, and my consciousness will not be dependent upon body consciousness.

I will not cling to mind consciousness, and my consciousness will not be dependent on mind consciousness. Even the awareness of the sense-based experiences, that awareness is not me, not mine, not myself. That awareness arises dependent upon the sense base and the sense-based object. See the awareness of the awareness of these sense-based objects and see that they are not tied to the sense-based objects. They are not tied to the awarenesses of each of these sense-based objects. They are independent of this awareness.

The fact that you can be aware of this contact shows that that contact is not you. That contact is not me, mine, or myself. I will not cling to feeling born of eye contact, and my consciousness will not be dependent on feeling born of eye contact. I will not cling to feeling born of ear contact, and my consciousness will not be dependent on feeling born of ear contact. I will not cling to feeling born of nose contact, and my consciousness will not be dependent on the feeling born of nose contact. I will not cling to feeling born of tongue contact, and my consciousness will not be dependent on the feeling born of tongue contact. I will not cling to the feeling born of body contact, and my consciousness will not be dependent on the feeling born of body contact.

The awareness of the experience itself. Now you're aware that that experience is not me, not mine, not myself. The fact that you can see this shows that your awareness is independent of these experiences themselves. When you hear my voice, that is dependent upon contact with the voice in your ears and your consciousness. Dependent upon that, there is the experience of the sound.

Because you are aware of that, you know that this is not me, not mine, not myself. I will not cling to material form, and my consciousness will not be dependent upon material form. dependent on feeling. I will not cling to perception and my consciousness will not be dependent upon perception. I will not cling to formations and my consciousness will not be dependent on formations. I will not cling to consciousness and my consciousness will not be dependent on consciousness.

Your material form, the body, is made up of the four great states of matter, the four great elements, that has nothing to do with you, has nothing to do with me, mine, or myself. The awareness of this body also has nothing to do with me, mine, or myself. All experiences that you are having, all feeling that you are having and experiencing, that is dependent upon causes and conditions, not dependent upon a me, mine, or myself.

The awareness of that itself also is not tied to it. It is independent of the experience. All perceptions, all concepts, all views, all opinions that you have in mind, they arose dependent upon previous circumstances, previous situations, having nothing to do with the me, mine, or myself. And your awareness of them shows to the mind that it has nothing to do with the me, mine, or myself. And intentions that you had in the past, they arose dependent upon contact with the outside world. The choices and decisions that were made, they arose dependent upon the choices that were presented, having nothing to do with the me, mine, or myself. And the awareness of this is independent from that.

The awareness of awareness itself, the fact that you can see the awareness, can experience the awareness, shows that that awareness also is not you, is not me, not mine, not myself. Anything that can be observed is not me, not mine, not myself. And if you can observe the observer as well, that observer is not me, not mine, not myself. The observer is dependent on the observation and the object of observation.

Seeing this, let go of any notions of me, my, or myself to that observation and the process of the observer, of nothingness, and my consciousness will not be dependent on the base of nothingness. I will not cling to the base of neither perception nor non-perception, and my consciousness will not be dependent on the base of neither perception nor non-perception. In other words, even the meditation itself is a process of observing, whether it's the jhanic factors, whether it's the loving kindness, whether it's the spiritual friend, the intention to radiate loving-kindness, radiate compassion, radiate equanimity, radiate joy, whether it's the experience of infinite space, infinite consciousness, nothingness, neither perception or non-perception. All this is observed, and that which can be observed and experienced is not me, not mine, not myself.

I will not cling to this world, and my consciousness will not be dependent on this world. I will not cling to the world beyond, and my consciousness will not be dependent on the world beyond. I will not cling to what is seen, heard, sensed, caught, encountered, sought after, and examined by the mind, and my consciousness will not be dependent on that. In other words, in the seeing, there is only the seeing. In the hearing, there is only the process of hearing. Of thinking. In the cognizing, there is only the process of cognizing. In the perceiving, there is only the process of perceiving. See this, and see that the eye is not present in it. There is only an impersonal process of thinking, feeling, perceiving, seeing, tasting, hearing, touching, and processing.

The consciousness that is aware of this process, that too is dependent upon these experiences. Dependent upon the air element. I will not cling to the space element, and my consciousness will not be dependent upon the space element. I will not cling to the consciousness element, and my consciousness will not be dependent on the consciousness element. These elements, the earth element, the water element, the air element, the fire element, the space element, the consciousness element. The water element has to do with the liquidity of the body. The blood, the sweat, the tears, all of the liquid aspects of the body. They arise dependent upon bodily causes and conditions. There is no control from the sense of me, mine, or myself.

Element, when you think about the fire element, the heat in the body, that is only dependent upon bodily causes and conditions reacting to external circumstances. The air element, the winds going through the body, the breathing in and out, that is not even controlled either. Even the conscious inhalation and exhalation, that is dependent upon bodily causes and conditions.

See it to be not me, mine, not myself. The space element of the body, the different spaces in the body, the ear canal, the nostrils and so on, the mouth, all of that is just space, nothing to do with the me, mine or myself. The consciousness element, that is the mind itself and the factors of the mind, the contact, feeling, perception, intention, attention, that has nothing to do with the me, mine or myself. And the consciousness that resides dependent upon the mind, that too, because of the fact that it is dependent upon it, is not me, not mine, not myself.

Thus you should train. When this was said, the householder Anathapindika wept and shed tears. Then the venerable Sariputta asked him, Are you foundering, householder? Are you sinking? I am not sinking. But although I have waited long upon the teacher and bhikkhus worthy of esteem, never before have I heard such a talk on the Dhamma. Such talk on the Dhamma, householder, is not given to lay people clothed in white. Such talk on the Dhamma is given to those who have gone forth. This does not mean that this is a secret teaching. All Sariputta is saying is that this teaching is given to those who have renounced the world, who are busy in their own duties and activities, so primarily it's not given well. Then, venerable Sariputta, let such talk on the Dhamma be given to lay people clothed in white. There are clansmen with little dust in their eyes who are wasting away through not hearing such talk on the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma. Then, after having given the householder and departed.

Soon after they had left, the householder Anathapindika died and reappeared in the Tusita heaven. Then, when the night was well advanced, Anathapindika, now a young god of beautiful appearance, went to the Blessed One, illuminating the whole of Jeta's grove. After paying homage to the Blessed One, he stood at one side and addressed the Blessed One in stanzas. The king of Dhamma, the founder of all happiness, by action, knowledge and Dhamma, by virtue and noble way of life. By these are mortals purified, not by lineage or wealth, by action, by intention, by knowledge, by wisdom, by the Dhamma, by keeping the precepts and following the Eightfold Path. This is how the mind is purified. Therefore, a wise person who sees what truly leads to his own good should investigate and understand the Dhamma and purify himself with it.

Sariputta has reached the peak in virtue, that is sila, peace, samadhi, and wisdom's ways, panna. Any bhikkhu who has gone beyond at best can only equal him. That is what the young god Anathapindika said, and the teacher approved. When the young god Anathapindika, thinking the teacher has approved of him, paid homage to the Blessed One, keeping him on his right, he vanished at once. When the night had ended, the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus: last night, when the night was well advanced, there came to me a certain young god of beautiful appearance who illuminated the whole of Jeta's grove. After paying homage to me, he sat down on one side and addressed me in stanzas.

Then the young god, thinking the teacher has approved of me, paid homage to me and, keeping me on his right, vanished at once. When this was said, the venerable Ananda said to the Blessed One, Surely, venerable sir, that young god was Anathapindika. For the householder Anathapindika had perfect confidence in the venerable Sariputta. Good, good, Ananda. As far as reasoning goes, you have drawn the right conclusion. The young god was Anathapindika, no one else. This is what the Blessed One said. The venerable Ananda was satisfied and delighted in the Blessed One's words.

Any questions? Sutta number? 143. I just think that I missed something very basic, but that sentence with which you are ending each of those barriers, that the awareness of this is what would make you realize that this is not self-reporting. I think I'm missing a lot of words in that. I didn't exactly get that. dependent upon these things. In other words, the awareness of this is separate from the object of awareness. I didn't get this at all. In other words, now you are seeing anything that you can perceive, anything that you can experience, that is not you.

Am I you? You can see. So therefore, whatever it is you're experiencing, even your thoughts, is not me, not mine, not myself. This is the way to understand it. The consciousness will not be dependent upon that. Meaning, there will be no inclination to add a me, mine, or myself to that experience. The awareness of an experience does not mean that the awareness is the experience.

And so he says, He could, Ananda. But how, Bhante, could he obtain such a state of concentration? Here, Ananda, a bhikkhu is percipient thus. This is peaceful. This is sublime. That is the stilling of all formations. The stilling of all activities. The relinquishing of all acquisitions. The letting go of me, my, myself. The destruction of craving. No craving, aversion or identification, the dispassion, complete detachment from all experience, cessation. In this way, Ananda, that a bhikkhu could obtain such a state of concentration that he would not be percipient of earth in relation to earth, of water in relation to water, of the base of infinite space in relation to the base of infinite space, of the base of infinite consciousness in relation to the base of infinite consciousness, of the base of nothingness in relation to the base of nothingness, of the base of neither perception nor non-perception in relation to the base of neither perception nor non-perception, of this world in relation to this world, of the other world in relation to the other world, but he would still be percipient.

That is where the mind makes contact with the unconditioned. This process of letting go of the me, my, myself, in relation to all things, leads the mind to the perception or the experience of the unconditioned. So what Sariputta was doing is, Anathapindika, being on his deathbed, he led him to the process of going towards nibbana. So you are disengaging the mind from all experience.

And actually it's the same as what I said yesterday. Having the experience fully without the superposition of the Adam. That's it. This is Anguttara Nikaya 10.6. This is a request for further clarification. The structure that you have really put is the contact, and then there's the feeling, and then the perception. I heard saying that all perception is from the memory. I request you to further. And then the second part of the question is that from the perception, thinking arises. And from thinking, the mental proliferation. So the difference between the thinking and the mental proliferation, what could be that? Because to me, thinking itself is proliferation. Because one is thinking on the particular. So when I said that perception is rooted in memory, what I'm saying is that perception is that which labels an experience.

The knowing of what the quality of the experience is. Even knowing that the feeling is pleasant, unpleasant, or neutral. That is perceiving the quality of the feeling, of the experience. So perception is that which names what it is that you are experiencing. That's why I threw it in memory. The first time you experience something, there is the cognizing of what that experience is. of a little kid at the stove fire, right? He puts his hand on top of the fire. He's cognizing the heat in that. He's cognizing pain in that. And there's the experience of the pain. And now he perceives there is pain. He knows what pain feels like. The next time he approaches a stove fire, he already has a perception that that fire is hot.

That fire can burn you. And so he is cautious, dependent upon that perception. Now, all beings, in terms of whether they are fully awakened or not, or whatever it might be, they all have this process of contact, feeling and perception. The difference between one who is fully awakened, let's say, and one who is still on the path, there can still arise the notion of thinking about that. That is, you perceive it, which is, in terms of perception, doesn't mean to add an opinion about it. About what that thing is in relation to the I. So now that stove fire that the person approaches, they say, they're cautious about it, but they can have anxiety about it and say, that stove fire is painful to me, and I don't like that stove fire, or have opinions about what that stove is, or whatever it might be.

This is the thinking process. The thinking process then can give rise to full-blown craving, which is, I don't like that, or I like it, or I am it. And then that can give rise to clinging, creating more further associations about that feeling, about that experience. That clinging and association can give rise to a certain habitual tendency from which the mind reacts. So the processes of craving, clinging, and becoming are the mental proliferation. The spark of thinking, the initial spark of judging what that experience is based on the I, the me, the myself, that catapults this whole process of mental proliferation. Thank you. about concentration. I'm wanting to kind of unpack methodology and looking at concentration versus other TWIM and how that all fits or how that all helps.

Well, since day one, what we've been talking about is metacognition as opposed to cognition of metha. What we're saying is the cognition of cognition. When you are meditating, you are having the attitude, or you should start to develop the attitude, or the perception, of mind observing the process of meditation. So you're detaching a sense of I, me, or mine, to the meditation, whatever the object is.

Initially, in the beginning, when you start this practice, there's a tendency to say, I am the one who's experiencing this process. bringing up the metta and so on. But if you step back and just watch the mind doing the process, then everything flows much easier. So how does TWIM, how does sending loving-kindness cut through all that and assist? It doesn't matter what the object is, that's what I'm saying. TWIM here is basically using right effort. So you could use breathing as a practice, you could use as super practices, you could use charnogram practices, you could use anything as your object in meditation. The object is just allowing the mind to become clearer, to become more cultivated.

And so would you also use the word concentration? You could call it concentration, that's fine. But usually, sometimes the word concentration notes the idea that I have to make an effort to focus. Like I have to really become so one-pointed. That's why we try to use the word collectedness. Because the mind is collected around some kind of knowledge. It stays centered. It stays centered if you want.

So I'm thinking more of walking from point A to point B versus being on the cushion and then noting what is coming to mind. Oh, anxiety. Oh. So then noting that this is anger or noting that this is anxiety is just the first start. We're taking that step further using right effort and noting, oh, here is anger and letting your attention go away from that anger. Relaxing the craving or the identification with that anger, and then generating something wholesome to replace that. This is right now. The crux of the relax step is that in a lot of other practices, you're creating a meditator to control experience.

Like, I have to focus on that. And that creates someone who's focusing. Or I have to note things and label them. And there's a way of doing that effectively with right effort. But often, the way it's taught, people don't take it that way. And then they create this kind of focuser or this meditator who has to kind of break apart their experience. And with the TWIM practice, there's an emphasis on an open awareness and a relaxation that allows you to observe the mind as it is without adding anything to it.

So that allows you to see dependent origination and have things unfold on their own without getting involved in trying to fix or fixate. Would it be correct to say, to him is a tougher practice? That's a comparing mind. One question. What is the name of the consciousness that doesn't depend on consciousness? What is the name of the mind that makes contact with the nibbana element? Is it chitta, is it vijnana, is it humano? Is it like a kana, conditioned, impermanent consciousness or mind can contact the unconditioned? Nibbana, is that possible? Where is that going? That consciousness is also dependent on the experience that the consciousness is having. It's not some underlying consciousness that pervades and sees everything.

So, when we say that that consciousness is not dependent upon the experience, what we're saying is, we're not tying the consciousness as self, in relation to that experience. That consciousness arises dependent upon the arising of the experience and passes in dependence to the passing of that experience. I'm going to go deeper into this in another sutta because what they talk about there is the life faculty.

This is known as the Jivit Indriya in Sanskrit. And the other Savani and the Dhammasangani, this is the Abhidhamma, it says that that Jivit Indriya has the nature of ceaselessly watching, but it arises and passes away dependent upon whatever the experience is. So some people call that the Dhamma Chakri, that is the eye of the Dhamma, the eye of wisdom. But that too arises dependent upon the experience of wisdom. So you call it the Nibbana. Nibbana is contact with the Nibbana element, but there's no awareness of the experience of Nibbana. You only know the qualities pertaining to the post-Nibbana experience.

Because the contact with Nibbana, and I'm going to talk about this further, but the contact with Nibbana is said to be empty of self. It's said to be signless. It's said to be undirected. That contact with the Nibbana element gives rise to an experience which then the mind becomes aware of and mistakes as Nibbana. The feeling of joy and relief that arises, that is dependent upon the empty, signless, If there is no I, me, myself, how does memory and recollection work? with the mind and the brain being able to take and store that information. The superimposition of the I into the memory says that this memory belongs to me. This memory is part of myself.

But that is happening because of causes and conditions, namely the processes in the brain that allow it to take and store that memory. Your memory changes all the time, by the way. I'll tell you why. You might have a different quality of mind. And you will look at that same memory. But somehow that memory has a different quality.

So it's not tied to some underlying permanent I, me, or myself. How can you follow instructions, for example, in a state of meditation when you are trying to get rid of the I? How do you follow the instructions that were kind of stored in that sense of I? I have to do this. But you know, that's the thing. There's no I doing it.

You see, the I, the me, the myself has been so ingrained that the mind feels like it is the me that has to do it. But if you just relax into it and just observe the processes happening, you will realize that there's no you adding to the process. The process is happening. There's no controller in that process. The process is arising and happening dependent upon the causes and conditions. So, receiving the instructions, for example, that is my voice reaching your ears, that is the sound waves making contact with the ears, your consciousness arising, contact and the experience of listening, but in that listening there is only listening. But the mind has a tendency to say I am listening. Thank you. It's like the orchestra. The orchestra doesn't need a director. They play alone. They don't need any director. They know how to play and they play perfectly without a director. You know, you mentioned yesterday, experience everything fully without adding an I.

It definitely broadens the spectrum of experience. It enabled, using the right effort, getting rid of the notion of why. Say, taking a cold shower, for example, that can be a very strong sense of, I don't like this. So it really helps. But let me categorize it into two aspects. Let's say there's a passive experience. Suddenly one can step into that space and be a bit more diverse with the sense behind me. But let's say I'm choosing between one cup of tea and two cups of tea. I have to do something. So here's a problem: I can't think and make this way or the other.

There's no right or wrong. The only solution I see here in this type of active modes of interacting with the world is to have something. There seems to be no other way you can solve this problem by thinking or by examining or analyzing. There will always be so many branches to the experience. So carrying this mindset is difficult. That's probably the reason why you said it's a preview. I can't carry it throughout the day. Maybe in certain experiences it's fine to do that. So my second question leans more towards what do we do when there's an active component to our tasks in everyday life, while we're doing stuff. And there could be very levels of something as well. I could be aware of the feeling and still identify with not being aware of the contact, and so on. You know, the world in which we live in is becoming more and more immersive.

In 2011-12 I asked this question to a monk and I was sitting in front of a keyboard. I was asking him, how do I maintain my sati and typing? It seems to be tough. But now there's no keyboard. The smartphone is more at the level of contact. There's already a lot of stuff happening and by the time you realize maybe you've done something. That's the reason why I was delayed with a retreat. I expressed two buttons. Continue, continue, and here's my flight rescape. You know what I mean. This is going to become an epidemic of destruction when we move to the metaverse. I don't know if you're aware of that. As opposed to the metta.

Yes. Yes, yes. Yes, absolutely. So, you know, it's going to be even more difficult. You would need such high degree and sharpness of sati and sampajanya to even have any progress in the Dhamma. You know, in a retreat, it takes a couple of days to get into the strange things, if you will. Yeah, we go back and then we might have that after effect for a week or two. But then how do we maintain this? That's the core of all this. Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, you know, we talk about today's world where there is hyper-stimulation from all different avenues. And you can still be relaxing into that whole process. You brought up the idea of choice. To choose between one or the other. How does that happen? The choice is dependent upon the choices that are presented. And then you relax into it and you realize what is it that the mind actually is going towards. Where is the attention inclining towards? There's no craving in there as such. It's more of where is the inclination. The idea of decision-making and choices, there comes a point, and I know this is again, this is a preview of what happens, but the more you develop your awareness, the more you develop your mindfulness, there comes a point where you access what would be called, or what could be called, the intuitive mind.

That mind, like oftentimes you will see in the suttas, the Buddha is meditating, and he's going on his alms round, and then they'll say, and it occurred to him, or it says, a thought occurred to me, that I should go visit this place, or I should go down for a walk here. And then that intuition leads him there, and then the Dhamma talk happens, and discourse, and so on. So intuition, intuitive mind, is the mind that is always experiencing insight.

It is independent of the past, independent of past experiences. It can take past experiences, what it already understands, but that decision is not going to be dependent upon all of that. It is like, you ask the mind a question. And if you have a decision to make, or you have some kind of activity that you are considering, or you have a blockage in your meditation, something is blocking you from further going. And this is for all of you. You can use this even now in the retreat.

You can ask the mind the question, what is it that's blocking my meditation, for example? And then just don't think about it. Don't analyze. Don't reflect. Just walk away from that question. Ask the mind a question. You've planted the seed. And then the intuition will come to you like a eureka moment and say, this is what is blocking the mind. And as soon as you realize that, you can let that go. Go back to your meditation and you see your meditation become even clearer. The reason I'm bringing this into the picture is because that is what is going to be required in today's world. The intuitive mind. That is predicated upon slowing things down. You don't have to be at the same pace that the world is at, which is just going faster and faster and faster, which leads to negligence, which then will lead to all kinds of problems.

Maybe you accidentally break a preset. That's accidentally. But it can cause you to get upset. It can cause you to get irritated. You get frustrated. So when you come down, when you sit down to do any kind of work, the establishing of mindfulness before you should be there. That is, slow things down. Get in touch with what is going on in the mind. If there is something going on that's destructive to the mind, use the 6R's. Let go. And then do the work like a meditation. Make the work the object of meditation. Center the mind around the task, and every time you notice the mind thinking about this or that, rein it in, bring it back, using right effort, until you finish the task.

Then relax, ask the mind what else needs to be done, and it will guide you. So, you know, in a sense what you're saying is, life happens. Live with it, but don't try to live with it. Right. Life happens whether you want it or not. The resistance to that flow of life is where the suffering is. But total and radical acceptance of everything as it is allows you to flow with it.

So, you know, when you say flow with it, to me, it's like a battle between the path factors and the defilements. So this flow is what you're saying as, you know, here are all these tools available to you. The enlightening factors, sati, sampajanya, and, you know, the stars. The eightfold path, so on and so forth. There will be battles, but the more we resist that battle, we are going to be engaged to a point where, you know, there's going to be wars now. Yes. So, you know, there's this idea of Mara, this being who I've come to respect a lot, because, you know, I've been practicing for a decade, I know how difficult this path is.

At the same time, it happens. So when we are talking about Mara, you mentioned this today. To what extent does he actually be an impediment to the path? There are all these anecdotes about whispering things into people's ears, and what not. And he sends the doorway, very sad, and somebody becomes enlightened. So what are all these... So the hint is in the suttas themselves. Go back to the suttas and see how they dealt with Mara.

I see you, Mara. I recognize you. As soon as you recognize it, he stops. Same with the ignorance. Same with any defilement. I recognize you. That's the first step. Having equanimity. Not being affected by it. That comes through releasing attention from that. There's no reverse of quality in releasing. It's just, I see you. I accept it. I acknowledge it. And now I let you go, whatever life throws at us.

We can turn that into a flower? Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Whatever is coming to you, the reason why it seems like it's life throwing stuff at you is because there's a you that life is throwing at. In other words, the resistance comes from taking it personally, taking it seriously. Got it. But the moment you back off and just relax, that sense of I, then that turns into a problem. Thanks. From what we were talking about, decision making, will it be fair to say, or will it be too simplistic, if I say that I just distinguish or discriminate what is wholesome and what is not wholesome, and then decide upon it? That's the first step, absolutely.

And like I said, how do you denote what is wholesome and what is unwholesome? No, I mean, you know what the wholesome factors are, but I mean in terms of the quality, if it's wholesome or unwholesome. And wholesome for me, wholesome for others, wholesome for everybody. Exactly. And the majority of them. It cannot be also for everybody. Exactly. But it doesn't cause damage to you or to another. My question is kind of an extension of Farad's question. Yeah. I deal with work where I need to do problem solving with computers. Most of the time I spend on problem solving, and it needs continuous thinking, and I can't even stop in between. If somebody interrupts me, I need to start from the beginning.

My mode of thinking is by default: when I see something, I don't smile first, I think. That is kind of, if I want to smile, I need to consciously remind myself to smile. To be honest, during my work I will be so focused I can't even give attention to something else. In fact, I will become a bit restless if somebody disturbs me.

So, in the professions where thinking is kind of predominant, and we meet, it's kind of highly respected as well in the profession. Autopilot in my Buddha's teaching? The answer was just in your question itself. You just said, I have to consciously wait and then smile and then go through that process. Unless I consciously do it. Actually, I would say you're probably even more respected for doing that. Just quickly thinking about something, as opposed to being very meticulous and diligent and taking your time with it, which gives or results in a better product, let's say, in your field.

So making that conscious effort to always take... it's just a matter of two or three seconds, you guys. Don't you have two or three seconds to just wait and relax? Really, it is a matter of that. And then getting too focused on something. This is the reason why we don't have a practice where we become too focused. Because then when there is a distraction, it causes like a jolt. And this is why we use the 6R's to gently bring it back. We don't jolt back into this whole process. So there you have to be able to just relax into the experience. Even when people talk about, they've been in the flow of something.

Like somebody who's very creative and they're doing something in the flow of it, they're doing that process. How does their mind actually feel after being in that flow state? It actually feels very dumb. It's like, I'm done now, I can't do anything else, because they become so focused into it. But if your mind takes that pause and just relaxes, then everything almost becomes just like a play. That's where it is, right? The reason why people take things seriously, the reason why people take things personally, is because there's something tied to it that affects that mean. Affects me. If I don't do this, I won't be able to feed myself and my family, for example. And you're so engaged in it for that sake.

But if you let go of all of that, then your priorities come into place and you do things from your intuition, rather than, I have to do it because this will lead to this, because this will lead to that, and so on. That's just karmic action. That's unfolding. But if you start with the intuitive mind, then you're doing things in terms of letting go of any kind of attachment to any kind of action. It's just, that is true flow of action. Effortless action. And it's all predicated upon what you just said. Taking that conscious step. And that's predicated upon spending those two, three seconds to relax.

Be aware of what your thoughts are. and then you can have whatever it is that you do. Thank you. I was just curious about the perception part of the dependency linking. Someone who has dementia or Alzheimer's. Yeah. I can tell you from not experience with people who have dementia but having observed people who have dementia. They still have perception. There's still some memory there. It's just their perception of the world is different.

Because the core memories somewhere are still there. From them, but they forget about certain things, like relationships they have with people or their children and things like that. But there's still perception going on. Is it difficult to progress in meditation as we age? I don't think so. Not necessarily. You can make the effort whenever you can make the effort. It's never too late.

This statement, anything that we can perceive and experience is not me or myself. It sounds so nice, but the mind still really is like, well, I know this is me, I can see myself, this is me. So I guess Nirvana is going to blow my mind because... One practical one that I've asked you before, and still is, is pain. So in Anathapindika he talks about all the different things, and you can experience this pain being one of them. Obviously, so here, in this modern world, we're conditioned to sit in things that cost money, but the body has been sitting like this for tens of millions of years, and yet most of us have great difficulty sitting for several hours. So

I've had a few times every so often I have it where I'm sitting and the pain comes up and I'm able to to let go of the attachment this story of pain and let it go and it goes it disappears or it goes into the background but I haven't really captured that so it's it's not a it's not an everyday occurrence can you speak more on the yes, okay, like the mind says don't identify or whatever, but it just feels like it's screaming and it's right there. Yes. Right.

But again, going back to where he was talking about Mara, that pain screaming at you is Mara detracting you from your object in meditation, and just recognizing it in that moment and then letting go. Now, the pain that you experience most probably is not physical. Most probably is meditation pain. And that meditation pain is rooted in restlessness.

When you take restlessness and you go to the most extreme of restlessness, it can manifest as pain. Which means the mind is having too much effort going on. Just like pulling back a little bit, letting go of any kind of need to do an effort and relaxing into it, the pain will go. And then it happens again. There's restlessness again because the mind is becoming too focused.

And then you do the same process and you relax. So that pain starts to dissipate. If it's meditation pain, that pain will dissipate. The reason why people don't want to sit for a long period of time is overstimulation, and because now there's no stimulation in the mind, the mind is like, I need something, I need something to be distracted by. So it causes itself pain. So it's also just a manifestation of boredom as well. And so with the restlessness, would we then cultivate tranquility? And cultivating tranquility, like in the practical aspect: I'm sitting, I'm sitting, I recognize restlessness, I can counteract it with tranquility. So I just actively reduce my... relax more, pull back your attention, don't be so focused. Last question.

He's an expert in sleep, or I consider him to be an expert in sleep. Yoga Nidra. You can look up, there's some good guided ones on YouTube or different podcasts. I like one that's by Jayasara, Seminary Jayasara. But yeah, because meditation can be actually stimulating. I mean, you want to have some level of focus there. And so doing that right before bed probably isn't a good idea if you're trying to drift right off. But some kind of progressive relaxation or yoga nidra, which is similar to that, can be really helpful.

Thank you. And basically watch your breath. In fact, I had a bad habit of trying to regulate my breath itself, and I was just trying to know what's the best way around trying to let go of any old practice habits that I had. Like in the sense, is it better if I just back off and do nothing for a while? I find that when I try to give loving kindness, I try doing it along with the frequency of my breath, which I need to do. Would you have any recommendations around that? Yeah, this is why we don't do Anapanasati, because a lot of bad habits are, I wouldn't say bad habits, I would say a lot of habits are ingrained with regards to Anapanasati.

For example, trying to regulate the breath and going into Pranayama, basically. So you could just stay with a smile, and that won't happen, anything attached to the breath, for example. But if you can just bring up the feeling and then just stay with the feeling and become aware of that, then you'll realize that it has nothing to do with the breath. And the problem is there's still a need to control. You see? There's still a need to control. If the medley goes away, you feel like, oh, something's going on. I need to bring that up again.

But it goes away. So what? You have to be willing to say, to allow things to be as they are. So this is the test for the mind, for everybody here. Being able to be okay with hindrances coming. Being able to be okay with the metta going or maybe changing into something else. If you hold on to it, then you're not going to have progress in the meditation.

So with regards to the breath and regulating it with the metta or using it to regulate the metta, the need to control anything and just watch things as they are and I'm glad you have to see what this might follow which I think is what you're saying yeah but based on our interviews I think value somewhere else in your practice so that I don't know if you're able to if you're actually using the fact to regulate that process of lady but if you are doing that I would say just watch the process of don't force you from me. Restlessness. It does happen very often that I just have a thought about what I want to do a month from now and it gives me a good idea which I can actually implement.

But very often it's also the case that I'm just restless. I think I probably have to, the answer is that I just need to have a better collectedness so that I can tell the difference. Do you have any thoughts on that? Yeah, first of all, any thoughts that arise, like thinking about the future, thinking about the past, if you see that the mind is starting to plan ahead and starting to plan, okay, this is what we're going to do a month from now and all of these things, you can just laugh at it.

Don't take the mind so seriously. And there's nothing good or bad about the thoughts coming or going. Don't put any value to what it is. It's just thoughts. That's all. If you laugh at your mind, there's so many things, for everyone, there's so many things you can laugh about for your mind. The mind comes up with all kinds of things about, I wonder if this happens, and what if that happens, and it goes into this, and it goes into that. And what if I fall in love with that person, and what if this happens, and we get married. All of these things like that, or maybe I'll get a promotion here, and oh no, but what if, he says that?

All of these thoughts that come up, it's just the mind. You seem to think, or I'm not saying you in particular, but the you, the sense of the I, seems to think that this has an effect on me. And by then engaging with that I, that's where the trouble begins. But if you just observe the thought as it is, just a thought, then you can laugh at it and say, is just a thought. It's no big deal.

You have that attitude of making thoughts no big deal, and they won't have any of that. Thank you. Do you want to add anything to that? I think it's all been said. Six-armed observed. Six-armed observed. May all beings share this merit that we have thus acquired for the acquisition of all kinds of happiness. space and earth, and give us and now as a mighty power, share the spin of others. May they long protect up with us this initiation.