Deerpark Retreat Day 3 MN 111 The Buddha's Map: through the Jhanas to Nibbana w/Delson Armstrong

One by one, as they occurred. Blessed I heard on one occasion, the Blessed One was living at Savatthi in Jeta's Grove, and not the Pindika's Park. There he addressed the bhikkhus thus, bhikkhus, an herbal survey of mine. The Blessed One said this, Because Sariputta is wise, Sariputta has great wisdom, Sariputta has wide wisdom, Sariputta has joyous wisdom, Sariputta has quick wisdom, Sariputta has keen wisdom, Sariputta has penetrative wisdom.

During half a month, Sariputta gained insight into states one by one as they occurred. Now Sariputta's insight into states one by one as they occurred was this. So here the Buddha is praising Sariputta for his wisdom. Sariputta has been known to be the one who was very keen with his wisdom. He was very penetrative with his understanding of the Dhamma. If you look at Digha Nikaya number 32 and 33, or 33 and 34, you will see that Sariputta lays out the entire Dhamma one by one in different numerical categories.

So his understanding of the Dhamma is great like the ocean. And that is why he is one of the Buddha's chief disciples. The other chief disciple is Moggallana, Maha Moggallana, who was an adept at psychic faculties. So Sariputta was more, let's say, head-centered, whereas Moggallana was more heart-centered, more intuitive. So to speak. So here the Buddha is praising Sariputta's wisdom. And when he talks about the different kinds of wisdom that he has, he says he has great wisdom, wise wisdom, joyous wisdom, quick wisdom, keen wisdom, penetrative wisdom. This is all pointing to the same thing. This wisdom, when he says wise or wisdom, he's referring to the understanding of dependent origination.

And therefore also pointing to the understanding of the four noble truths. Here, bhikkhus, quite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unwholesome states, Sariputta entered upon and abided in the first jhana, which is accompanied by applied and sustained thought, with rapture and pleasure born of seclusion. So now we're talking about the first jhana. What is part of the first jhana? First and foremost, quite secluded from sensual pleasures.

This means that the mind is secluded from any sensory activity. It's not paying attention to any kind of sensory activity. First of all, when you sit down to meditate, generally speaking, you close your eyes. So you shut off any kind of sensory experience through vision. And as you bring or establish mindfulness before you, that is to say you relax the mind and body and come to the intention of bringing up loving-kindness, you are here with the mind. Sensual pleasures have to do with pleasures related to the eyes, the ears, the nose, the tongue, and the body. These are the five cords of sensual stimulation, as the Buddha calls them. And sensual pleasures that we experience through these five physical sense spaces are one kind of pleasure.

But now the Buddha is talking about a different kind of pleasure. The only way you can let go of your attachment to certain pleasures is to understand them, acknowledge them, and then replace them with a pleasure that is greater. In other words, there was this great scientist named R. Buckminster Fuller. And he said, you never fight the existing reality, or you never replace the existing reality by fighting it. You put a new model in its place so that the old one becomes obsolete.

So, when you have greater mental pleasure, then the sensual pleasure seems weak, seems uninteresting. And so, the purpose of jhana is multifaceted. There's different ways of understanding jhana. But primarily, you are getting into jhana because you are letting go of the grosser sense pleasures. So when you still your mind, you collect your mind around an intention of bringing up loving-kindness. You are now with the mind.

Secluded from unwholesome states. What are unwholesome states? The five hindrances. So to be in a jhanic state of mind, there are two components, generally speaking. And this is the way I will explain it. And this is the way I have understood and experienced it. A jhanic state is void of any kind of hindrance, and it has the presence of the seven enlightenment factors in varying degrees. That's the basis for any jhanic state. No hindrance present, and the presence of enlightenment factors.

And you'll see why I say this as we progress through the jhanas. And so this is accompanied by applied and sustained thought. That's the vitakka and vicara, thinking and examining thought. In this tradition, the way we interpret this is when you intentionalize bringing up a feeling of loving-kindness, that is the applied thought. And when you put your mind or rest your awareness on that feeling, that is the sustained thought.

With rapture and pleasure born of seclusion, this is very important to understand. When you let go of the hindrance in your mind, for that moment your mind feels relief. And in that relief there is happiness. And this is the rapture, the piti, and the sukha. That sukha is comfort in the body. Your body feels very comfortable and stable. Born of seclusion, which means born of having let go of the hindrances.

Through the non-presence of the five hindrances, the mind feels relief. Therefore, it starts to experience joy. Therefore, it starts to experience happiness and comfort in the mind and body. And the states in the first jhana: the applied thought, the sustained thought, the rapture, the pleasure, and the unification of mind, ekaggata. The unification of mind. Generally speaking, ekaggata is translated as single-pointedness or one-pointedness of mind. I would look at this as being a unified mindset. And the way I would explain that is the same analogy as I used before, which is the mind, its attention is not scattered.

Its attention is together, unified, towards one object. But that doesn't mean that necessarily it becomes so focused and so concentrated that it suppresses everything else in that process. The mind orbits or stays with the theme of loving-kindness all throughout the meditation. The attention revolves around the feeling of loving-kindness. Or another way to put it is the awareness is imbued with loving-kindness. The awareness rests in that feeling of loving-kindness. The contact, feeling, perception, volition, and mind. The zeal, decision, energy, mindfulness, equanimity, and attention.

The contact, feeling, perception, volition, and mind. Here I'll see attention as well. These constitute mind. Mind is only known by its factors. When we look at dependent origination, we look at one of the links of dependent origination, which is nama-rupa. Rupa is the physical form, the body, which is made up of the four great elements, or the states of matter. And nama is made up of the mental factors of contact, feeling, perception, intention, and attention. So what is the contact here? That we're experiencing. This is contact with mind and the mind object, which is loving-kindness. The feeling, which is the actual feeling of loving-kindness. The perception, which is perceiving that the mind is experiencing loving-kindness. The intention. The attention begins when you have the intention to stay with the feeling of loving-kindness, or to bring up and then stay with the feeling of loving-kindness.

And the attention. The attention here is the spotlight on which the loving-kindness is. When the spotlight goes away towards something else, which is a distraction, that's when you use the 6R's. That's when you recognize you're distracted. You release your attention from that. You relax the tightness and tension in mind and body. Re-smile. Return back to your object of meditation. Now the spotlight is gently brought back to the feeling of loving-kindness. That is your attention. Zeal. The zeal here is the chanda, the wholesome inclination of mind. The wholesome inclination of mind starts when you want to have loving-kindness in your heart. When your mind inclines towards letting go. When your mind inclines towards nidana.

This is the chanda that we talk about. The decision, the decision here is adhimokkha, resolving yourself to sitting down and meditating. Energy, here we're talking about having the balanced energy, not too much, not too little. Too much energy and you will feel a lot of restlessness arising. Too little and you will start to feel dullness of mind.

And so that balance of energy is brought up by right effort, through the six hours. Mindfulness, that is the sati. Remembering to stay observant of your object of meditation. In this sense, when you are meditating, what you're actually doing, or what you will be doing as you start to progress through this practice, is you are actually watching mind meditating.

You are not the meditator. You are watching the mind meditate. This is metacognition. Equanimity. This equanimity, this upekkha that we speak of, that is seeing things as they actually are without getting affected by what it is you are seeing or experiencing. So there is a level of this passion that arises through this equanimity. And there is a level of distance from the observer and the object of observation, so to speak. And as I said, attention. So here the mind that we speak of is really consciousness.

Your awareness of what is arising and passing away. So the awareness is one thing. And the awareness flows through where the attention is put. So in other words, the spotlight goes in one direction. And so now the awareness through that attention goes to that loving-kindness. So your mind becomes imbued with that loving-kindness. These are the different states that Sariputta was able to distinguish and delineate in this particular jhana. And he does that for every single jhana as he progresses.

That's not the goal here. You don't have to do that. But it allows you to see what it is that you are experiencing. As you progress and become better with jhanas, your attention becomes clearer. You yourself will be able to see these different states arising and passing away. And this is where we talk about the samatha and vipassana coming together. The samatha aspect is the factors of the jhana present in the mind, and the vipassana aspect is what Sariputta experiences now. It says, These states were defined by him one by one as they arose, or as they occurred.

Known to him those states arose, knowing they were present, knowing they disappeared. What is he seeing here? He is seeing the impermanent nature of the different factors involved in that jhana. So he's not getting tied up in that experience. He is seeing for himself that this jhana itself is impermanent and therefore should not be held on to if it changes, if anything happens. Therefore, it says, He understood thus, so indeed these states, not having been, come into being. Having been, they vanish. Regarding those states, he abided unattracted, unpropelled, independent, detached, free, disassociated, with a mind rid of barriers.

He didn't get caught up in the experience of the jhana. He didn't get caught up in whether he was experiencing jhana or not. He was just observing, like a movie. This is how your practice will be. You're just watching how the different states arise, with the loving kindness as your object, being the anchor for your mind, being the anchor for your mind's attention.

And so you are just glued to your seat, watching what the latest episode is in this series of your mind. Watching the movie go by. That's it. And in doing so, you remain disassociated, and you remain detached, independent, with the mind rid of barriers. He understood there is an escape beyond, and with the cultivation of that attainment, he confirmed that there is. There is another way to understand jhana here. Jhanas, I propose, are levels of cessation.

We experience Nirodha, which is the cessation of suffering altogether. But on the way to it, you experience certain jhanas. And these jhanas cease coarser and coarser experiences, automatically, progressively, naturally. So as you progress through these stages of insight, facilitated by the jhana, you start to see your subtler and deeper layers of the mind, as the coarser layer starts to cease, because your tension goes from one layer to the deeper layer.

The other thing to understand with jhana is that, you think about it this way: the feeling of loving kindness, or whatever your object of meditation might be, whether it's radiating the brahmaviharas, whether it's quiet mind, whatever it might be, that's the conversation. Let's say you are sitting in a room somewhere, and you're having a conversation. So you, the observer, are watching the object in meditation. This is your conversation.

Maybe you are in a restaurant, or maybe you're somewhere where there is ambient noise. Maybe there's music playing, there's chattering going on here and there. Now, if you put your attention on the ambient noise, you lose awareness of what the other person is saying. In the same way, these different factors that are present in the mind are just the background of the mind. The jhana is just the background, letting you know where you are on your path, in your quest for the jhana. But if you pay attention to the ambient noise, or you pay attention to the factors of the jhana, you're not going to be paying attention to the loving kindness. And now your mind becomes distracted by this or that.

There can be a tendency for the mind to mistake the joy factor of the jhana for the metta. Or the happiness factor, or whatever it might be. And by doing so, a person feels like the metta has disappeared, because they have mistaken the joy for the metta. The joy will invariably disappear as you progress. So don't mistake the factor of the jhana for the object of meditation.

Again, bhikkhus, with the spilling of applied and sustained thought, one enters and abides in the second jhana, which has self-confidence and singleness of mind without applied and sustained thought, with rapture and pleasure born of collectedness. So now, when you get to the second jhana, you are no longer having any applied and sustained thought. The thinking and examining thought disappear. That doesn't mean that there won't be background thoughts, but there won't be any more intentionalizing of bringing up the feeling of loving kindness. Once the awareness rests on the loving kindness, this is what is meant: when the mind lets go of what brought up the loving kindness and stays with just the loving kindness. So now the initial intentionalizing

of bringing up through phrasing, bringing up through memories, bringing up through gratitude, whatever it is that works for you. All of that is let go of, and now you just stay with the loving kindness. And once you stay with the loving kindness, there is this smoothness that happens. The mind just continues with that feeling of loving kindness. And this is where self-confidence arises. Now the mind is established in staying with the loving kindness. It feels confident.

There is no more doubt that it is actually in meditation at this point. Singleness of mind. Again, this is part of that ekaggata, singleness of mind. The mind now doesn't have anything else going on except for staying with that feeling of loving kindness. There is no presence of any more disturbing thoughts. No more presence, even in the background, that starts to dissipate. There might be little wisps here and there, but that's no big deal.

Those little wisps come and go, but if you pay attention to them, that's where the trouble is. If you allow them to just go on by and stay with the feeling, everything will be fine. With rapture and pleasure born of collectedness. Look at the difference here. In the first case, the first jhana, was rapture and pleasure born of seclusion. The second jhana is rapture and pleasure born of collectedness.

The difference here is, in the first case, the rapture, the joy, the happiness that arises is because of the relief from not having the five hindrances in the mind. In the second case, it's because the mind has become more focused, more collected, more confident in its practice. And the states in the second jhana, the self-confidence, the rapture, the pleasure and the unification of mind, the contact, feeling, perception, intention, and mind, the zeal, decision, energy, mindfulness, equanimity, and attention, these states were defined by him one by one as they occurred. Known to him those states arose, known they were present, known they disappeared, and with the cultivation of that attainment, he confirmed that there is an escape beyond this.

Again, because with the fading away as well, the rapture, he abided in equanimity, and mindful and fully aware, still feeling pleasure with the body, he entered upon and abided in the third jhana, on account of which the noble ones announced, He has a pleasant abiding who has equanimity and is mindful. So as you progress from the second to the third jhana, what you will notice is that joy. Now that joy can arise in various degrees. That joy can manifest as heat in the body. That joy can manifest as heat or warmth in the hands. That joy can manifest as inhalation in the heart. That joy can manifest as vibration in the body. That joy can manifest as tingling in the body, or just a sense of well-being.

Different degrees of joy. But those will all start to dissipate and quiet down and calm down. And what you will be left with is tranquility. In the third jhana, there is an experience there, which is the pleasure with the body, which is where you feel either the body is very much rooted in the earth, and so quite grounded and heavy, or you feel that the body is very light and floating. Sometimes you will feel like parts of the body disappear. Sometimes you feel like you're only up in the head, and the complete body from the neck down has gone. Different degrees. Sometimes you'll feel like the feeling of loving kindness has expanded. It's starting to radiate.

It's starting to go beyond just the body and fill up around your body like an aura. So these are the different things that can happen in the third jhana. And so you have greater equanimity and mindfulness here. So there is a greater degree of clarity in the mind. That self-confidence then translates into greater clarity of mind. There is a quality of spaciousness in the mind. There's a quality of pristine awareness in the mind. And the mind is just with the loving kindness and nothing else. Very quiet, very still. For the most part. Again, don't get disturbed if you see thoughts in the background. It's fine. It's okay. The mind is not always going to be as quiet as you think it's going to be.

Whatever experience you're having, just experience it, allow it to be there. But don't try to judge what it is, don't try to analyze what it is, don't try to hold on to the experience. No matter how good it feels, all these experiences are volitionally produced. They are dependently arisen, and therefore liable to pass away. Don't hold on to them. They will go away.

When you get into the fourth jhana, the feeling of loving kindness starts to expand up into the head. By this time, you stop feeling the body. You might feel it a little bit, but now you're up in the head. Now you are almost fully in just the mind. And oftentimes you know you're in the fourth jhana, or Venagomathananda, and I will know you are in the fourth jhana by the way you speak and by the way you enter the room.

It's all good. Everything is fine. Everything is very balanced. People speak in a very even tone of manner. It's just very chill and relaxed. There's absolute equanimity in the mind. They don't care about anything. It doesn't matter what's going on. Did they miss their lunch? No big deal. It's raining outside? No big deal. It's all good, you know? They're just completely relaxed, tranquil, and equanimous. And the purity of mindfulness due to equanimity. What's happening as you progress through the jhanas is you're actually cycling through the enlightenment factors, and they start to gain momentum and strength. There is a way to understand the enlightenment factors in a couple of ways. They are linear, that is to say: mindfulness leads to investigation of states, which leads to energy, which leads to joy, which leads to tranquility, which leads to collectiveness, which leads to equanimity.

But they also cycle through as you progress through the jhanas. And so by the time you are in the fourth jhana, the mindfulness is so clear, so crisp, due to that equanimity. In other words, when you're cycling through, you have mindfulness, investigation of states, energy, joy, tranquility, collectiveness, equanimity, which then informs the next cycle of mindfulness, investigation of states, energy, joy, tranquility, collectiveness, and equanimity, which continues to further strengthen that mindfulness. So by this time in the fourth jhana, the purity of mindfulness due to equanimity means that the mindfulness is completely stable.

You are able to stay with your object of meditation for longer periods of time. Initially, there is instability. Maybe you're staying with the object for 10 seconds. Later, you're staying there for 30 seconds. Later, you're staying there for about 45 seconds, about a minute, two minutes, three minutes, four minutes, five minutes at a time, and so on.

There are only these four jhanas. Now, from here on out, you are experiencing the ayatanas. These are the base of experiences. These are the dimensions or planes of experience that are rooted in the fourth jhana. They are spheres of experience that are rooted in the fourth jhana. So here, what is happening? When your mind, when the loving kindness reaches up to the head, Kerala, Meta-nanda, and I will give you a certain kind of practice to give. This is a practice you do only in one or two sits. After that, we will change your meditation into what's known as the Six Directions. And the Six Directions means that you send out a feeling of loving-kindness universally, indiscriminately, to all living beings in every direction.

As you're doing this, you are no longer in the body. The mind feels expansive, starts to expand. And so you surmount the perception of form with non-attention to perceptions of diversity. No longer paying attention to what's going on with the body or the senses. That doesn't mean that they're closed off. All it means is your attention is very much rooted in what is happening in the mind.

If a fly is buzzing around, you might still hear it distinctly. If it comes and lands on your hand, you might feel it very faintly. So that means the disappearance of perceptions of sensory impact. So when I talk about jhanas being levels of cessation, here's what we're talking about. The first jhana, what ceases? The hindrances. The second jhana, what ceases?

The thinking and examining thought. The third jhana, what ceases? The joy factor. The fourth jhana, what ceases? The happiness and pleasure related to the body. Now, what is commonly known as the 5th jhana, but really infinite space, what ceases? It's the perception of form. Now you are in your mind. You have the idea that you don't have a body. Now you're completely in the mind. You are in this vast spaciousness which arises.

This edgeless space, boundless space. This is the awareness that space is infinite. Because as you send out the feeling of loving kindness in all directions, they keep going for as long as you can keep them going with your intention. Beyond the earth, beyond the solar system, beyond the galaxy, beyond the universe and other universes, it just keeps expanding. And so you have this awareness that space is infinite. But that is not the object, remember.

He understood thus that there is an escape beyond this. And with the cultivation of that attainment, he confirmed that there is. Again, bhikkhus, by completely surmounting the base of infinite space, aware that consciousness is infinite, Sariputta entered upon and abided in the base of infinite consciousness. Now when you get into infinite space, that feeling of loving kindness, the metta that you experience, that you're radiating, starts to soften up and it gradually turns into karuna, compassion. That karuna is tied to the experience of infinite space. Now you feel compassion for all living beings.

You wish the end of suffering for all living beings. You recognize the suffering in your own self, in your own mind, and therefore understand the suffering in other beings. Sometimes when you have this experience you'll have a flash of insight that might arise. A person comes into your mental field that might need your help. And obviously now you're on retreat. But if you do this off retreat, you might find more often than not that you get a sense that this person needs your help. And you might call them up. Or they might call you up and say, Hey, I'm in this situation, I need your help. Or you call them up and they say, I was just thinking about you.

So it has happened in people's experience when they do radiate compassion and experience this infinitude of space that they have a connection with other living beings. And then you get into what's known as infinite consciousness. And here that feeling of compassion, which was soft, starts to become empathetic joy. There's a different quality of joy here. A very subtle happiness.

You know, the celebration of beings being happy, enjoying the fact that some beings are experiencing relief from suffering. It feels like relief in your own mind. There is a sense of relief and joy in your mind. This is empathetic joy, mudita, which is tied to the experience of infinite consciousness. Now here, generally, the idea is when you see or perceive that consciousness is infinite, the general idea has been that the awareness expands to the limits of infinite space and then that becomes the awareness.

But what we are talking about here goes a little bit deeper than that, which is, yes, you see that fluid awareness for some time, but then you start to see what that awareness is actually made up of. In the same way you would see a ray of light as one ray of light, but rarely it's made up of quintillions and quintillions of individual photons, the same way the fluidity of consciousness is made up by iotas of individual arising and passing away of sensory consciousnesses.

And the way you would experience this if you were experiencing eye consciousness, you might experience a ring of light in the periphery of your vision, or you might experience flickering behind your eyelids. If you're a musician and your ears are more refined, you might experience flickering in the ears, you might experience the tap-tap-tap in the ears. Some people have phantom smells, some people have tingling in the tongue or phantom tastes that arise. Some people have tingling in their face, vibration in their body. And so this is the arising and passing away of infinite consciousnesses. Some people are able to see the gaps between thoughts. And it just doesn't have to happen that it happens in the sitting meditation.

It has happened where people are just walking around and suddenly they see the individual frames of reality slowing down. When you used to see a film which had actual film, a movie which had actual film, and if you slowed it down, you could start to see the individual film in that reel, the individual frames in that film reel, and you start to see things slow down. It has happened that people experience this. You might see the flags waving in the air and suddenly they just slow down. Or you might see people moving if they're under some kind of strobe light and you see every other second movement of their being.

So this is also part of infinite consciousness. You might start to hear something in the distance and you hear every other sound wave happening or arising. And so it slows down and you're perceiving the experience. What you are seeing is the arising and passing away of individual contact, internally in the mind, in relation to that sense field.

Now what happens is, as you see the arising and passing away of sensory consciousnesses, let's say you're seeing it through your eyes, and you're seeing the flicker, eventually you see the gaps in between each flicker, and those gaps start to widen, or if you see that ring of light, that ring of light starts to dissipate and there is nothing present, no thing present, or you hear the flickering in the ears or whatever it might be, and you start to notice the gap in between the arising passimuli of each of these experiences, and these gaps start to widen more and more and more until they become part of your mental field. And this is the perception of no-thingness.

There is nothing present in the mind. The mind becomes disinterested in any kind of experience altogether. The reason is because as you see the arising and passing away of consciousnesses, you experience for yourself, firsthand, the three characteristics. That is to say, you see for yourself the impermanent nature of experience. And thereby, as you start to see the arising and passing away, what happens? It becomes tiresome for your mind. Your mind says, okay, I've seen enough. That's the suffering. And then you realize that there's actually no controller over here. It is arising and passing away dependent upon causes and conditions. And thereby you experience anatta. So the perception of anicca leads to the perception of dukkha.

The perception of dukkha leads to the perception of anatta. The perception of anatta leads to the perception of equanimity. And now this equanimity becomes your object which you continue to radiate. All throughout, you've been radiating compassion through infinite space, empathetic joy through infinite consciousness. Now, equanimity through nothingness. Now, as you radiate that equanimity, your mind becomes quieter and quieter and quieter.

Until what happens is your mind decides that it doesn't feel like it wants to radiate anymore. So the analogy I use is you have a pebble that you drop into the surface of the lake and the ripples continue on until they stop. And you keep doing that until your mind says no more. And now mind just wants to rest in itself.

People describe this experience as being asleep but awake at the same time. It is like a lucid, deep sleep. Nothing much going on. Initially, they might experience some kind of lucid green, so to speak, some kind of disconnected thoughts that arise, some kinds of patterns and shapes and colors and disconnected thoughts, as if they have memories from a life they never lived. And so sometimes people will access past lives through this particular jhana. But those are all distractions. Understand them to be just the quality of this particular 8th jhana. The reason it's called neither perception nor non-perception is because there is no full recognition of what's going on. Perception here is the recognizing of what is arising.

Feeling is the experiencing. The recognition of that experience is perception. Perception is rooted in memory. When you were a child, let's say, or a child goes to a stove fire and puts their hand on top of that fire. They feel the heat, and they feel it burning. Now that experience is there, rooted in their mind. The next time they approach fire, they're aware that it can be hurtful, so I'd better be cautious. That awareness or that knowing is perception that is rooted in the memory of this experience. So when you see this as the color red, you know it because when you were in kindergarten, you learned what the color red was, or a blue, or that this is a tree, or what type of tree this is.

This is a bird, what type of bird this is. This is all perception. So in need of perception or non-perception, the thoughts that arise, these are what I call proto-thoughts, the sankaras, or samskaras. They give rise to certain kinds of patterns, certain kinds of sheaths, certain kinds of colors, certain kinds of thoughts, but they don't fully form into a fully perceived thought. Therefore, it is neither perception nor non-perception.

And then there are layers to this quiet mind. As you get deeper and deeper, you start to see that the mind becomes utterly still. And it can remain in that stillness for a long period of time. 30, 40, 50, 60 minutes at a time. An hour and a half at a time. Two hours at a time, three hours at a time. Not a single thought in the mind. Not a single thought. Just awareness. Just the luminosity of the mind.

Now here's what's the interesting thing. It says he emerged mindful from that attainment. In other words, when he was in need of perception or non-perception, you couldn't fully identify the different things that were going on because that would be full perception. So anytime you are in quiet mind in neither perception or non-perception, and now you start to see something, know that you are no longer in neither perception nor non-perception because you have fully recognized what it is that you're experiencing. So you will relax, let go, come back to quiet mind, let the mind relax further into that field of neither perception nor non-perception.

But he emerged mindful from that state. So when you come out of that experience, what you do is what he does here. Having done so, he contemplated the states that had passed, ceased, and changed. So for a couple of minutes, after you come out of that experience, you review what happened in the mind. And allow whatever comes up, patterns, pictures, shapes, whatever it is. And whatever comes up, use the 6R's. You just let go. Thus, indeed, these states, not having come into being, having been, they vanish. Regarding those states, he abided unattracted, unrepelled, independent, detached, free, dissociated, with a mind free of barriers. He understood there is an escape beyond.

It happens gradually. Your mind becomes less interested in itself, and the awareness doesn't take anything as an object. And so the analogy here is you point a flashlight out into the sky. And that light continues beaming up into space, but doesn't land on it, assuming that there's nothing there. There's no asteroid, no planet, no moon, nothing for the light to land upon. And it just keeps going, keeps going, keeps going.

But eventually, the fuel of that flashlight, the batteries, they run out. This is because the mind just keeps observing but nothing in particular. And when it observes nothing in particular and just keeps observing this objectless awareness, no sankharas arise. And because there is no fuel for your mind's attention to hold on to, the batteries run out and the mind switches off. There is a cessation of perception, feeling, and consciousness. You don't know you are in that state until you come out of that state. When you come out of that state, certain things happen, and when those certain things happen, you experience wisdom, or a level of wisdom. You see for yourself how dependent origination arises. You get a preview into how the four noble truths work, and if you completely understand it, like Sariputta, the taints are destroyed by his seeing with wisdom, meaning he became an arahant.

He emerged mindful from that attainment. Having done so, he recalled the states that had passed, ceased, and changed thus. So having come out of that state of cessation, of perception, feeling, and consciousness, he saw certain things come up. I'm not going to tell you what those things are. You have to tell me when you have that experience.

But whatever those things are, whatever it is that you see, is the seeing of wisdom. Seeing for yourself how this whole process of dependent origination works. We'll go a little deeper into this in the last few days of what actually happens. Because what's happening is that the mind is becoming deconditioned through these processes of jhana and ayatanas. Eventually becoming unconditioned.

and touching the nibbana element. We're going to go deeper into that later, but this is what happens. And so he reviews what happened, and having reviewed it, he says, having done so, he recalled the states that had passed, ceased, and changed, thus. So indeed, these states, not having come into being, having been, they vanish. Regarding those states, he abided unattracted, unrepelled, independent, detached, free, dissociated, with a mind free of barriers. He understood there is no more escape beyond, because he has touched the vinnana dhatu. He has touched the vinnana element. And with the cultivation of that attainment, he confirmed that there is not. Bhikkhus, rightly speaking, it is to be said of anyone, he has attained mastery and perfection in noble virtue, in sila.

He has attained mastery and perfection in noble concentration, in samadhi. He has attained mastery and perfection in noble wisdom, in panna. He has attained mastery and perfection in noble deliverance, in vimutti. It is, O Sariputta, indeed, that, rightly speaking, this should be said. Bhikkhus, rightly speaking, the word to be said of anyone is: He is the son of the Blessed One, born of his breast, born of his mouth, born of the Dhamma, created by the Dhamma, an heir in the Dhamma, not an heir in material things. It is of Sariputta, indeed, that, rightly speaking, it should be said. Bhikkhus, the matchless wheel of the Dhamma, set rolling by the Tathagata, is kept rolling rightly by Sariputta. That is what the Blessed One said.

The bhikkhus were satisfied and delighted in the Blessed One's words. Any questions? This sutta actually talks about the process of the jhanas, but doesn't actually mention what object that's had that are used. Exactly. You can use any object, really, for the purposes of this practice, when you're using brahmaviharas. So let's go back to the sutta that you mentioned yesterday, which is metta sahagata. So we were having a discussion comparing and contrasting this with that a few weeks back.

I have this question that I want people to ask you. It might be useful to the community. Yeah. It says that compassion has the limit as the environment. So, the question I have was, is it possible to use compassion for the lower jhanas? Yes, absolutely. It's possible to use metta, compassion, mudita, or empathetic joy, and upekkha, as an object of meditation, beginning from the first jhana onwards.

Absolutely no problem with that. Thanks. Do you have a question? My question is related to jhana 8.5. Yeah. So, at what point one decides that you need to take the signless concentration? Only through practice can you do it. You kind of just stumble upon it initially, where the mind becomes tired of itself and it kind of just dissolves and there's just awareness of nothing in particular.

For you to be able to see that is to be able to understand that even this object is volitionally produced. And so you let go of quiet mind as well. That's the way. We're going to be talking about a sutta that discusses this in maybe three or four days. Another question is it after a quiet mind or is it after me the perception and non-perception by signless connecting? It is after me the perception and non-perception. Before full cessation.

The last sankhara to go in that signless concentration of mind is the process of identification. That sense of I am. That's why a lot of people, when they're about to experience the cessation of perception, feeling, and consciousness, feel a certain kind of dread, feel a certain kind of anxiety. Not always, but sometimes they will. And that's the last vestiges of the self wanting to hold on. And it manifests those. You can hear your heart rate, you can hear your own blood. All of these things happen, and it's just trying to hold on.

So the last sankhara to go for full cessation is that conceit, that sense of I. Thank you. As you said, in the third stage of jhana, the mind goes out of the body. And if the mind doesn't find his body again, then is it not dangerous to do that? It's more of a perception. It's not like the mind actually leaves the body as such. It's just that the perception of forms is no longer felt. In the third jhana, actually, you're still feeling the body. Meaning the body feels very heavy or the body feels very light.

That's what's happening. Does it happen? I have heard that we should do these types of serious meditation under somebody's supervision so that it's not dangerous that we can come back into our body. One of the things you have to understand with our tradition is the jhanas that we experience. A lot of times, the jhanas can be very, very intense. But in our tradition, the jhanas are actually just, like I said, they're just the background part of the mind. So, they're actually quite calm, quite soft in their approach. As of yet, I haven't heard of anyone having any kind of experience where they feel like they can't come back to their body or something like that.

So can we learn these types of meditation with you or here? You want to leave the body? No, but what's going to happen is you will progress through these stages and the way I might have described it might sound dramatic in your mind, but when you actually experience them, they're quite subtle and quite safe. And in the interviews, as you talk about progress, as you talk about your experiences, that's why I went better than that, and I asked anything special happening in your meditation. We're looking out for certain things, certain parameters, certain signposts, for us to know where you are on the path. You might even just skip your mind like you didn't even realize you were on the third jhana, because it was just so subtle.

The attention to what's going on, that's why I would recommend for everyone is to, after you come out of your meditation, just do a little review process and write down what you were experiencing in that moment so that it's fresh and so that you can bring it into the and discuss it. You will be experiencing and learning these states but they will be natural and progressive and, they won't be something that's haphazard. Slow and steady is basically. Thank you so much. Thank you. I would think that if an individual would see past lives, they would think, oh, my consciousness just moves from all these past lives to past lives, and I'm just going to keep on reincarnating.

Whereas in reality, it's just how can they have the conviction that this is that and not the incarnation? They'll not believe the experience of seeing past lives itself. In other words, they will see the consciousness flickering out and a new consciousness coming up, and then a new life began. There's a certain state in between one life and the next life in which the consciousness burns out or flickers out, and then a new one arises. They'll see it for themselves, how the formations, the sankharas, arise dependent upon what happens in the last point or the last thought, and how that's transferred into the new consciousness. They'll see it for themselves. Thank you. Just picking on what he said.

So I guess what he means is, where is the concept of soul coming to picture when people review their past lives and say, in certain traditions, and where else we see this as individual consciousness arising in the past world. Actually, in Digha Nikaya number one, the Brahma Jala Sutta, which is all about the different types of wrong view, 62 different types of wrong view, it actually talks about some people who go through past lives and then mistake that as being the soul, mistake that as being the self, and so on and so forth. But the key here is the understanding in the experience of infinite consciousness when you see for yourself the arising and passing away of sensory consciousness.

Through that, you kind of enlarge that experience and realize that that consciousness is not just through sensory consciousnesses, but rebirth-linking consciousnesses from one life to the next life. So you see it for yourself. It's like a fractal. From the smallest iota on microscopic level to the largest macro level, from one life to the next. This is how it happens. Unless the Buddha tells us the concept of anatta, we won't be able to see this. And I think one of the suttas goes on to say that at the cycle of a Buddha, we'll be able to see maybe 100,000 lives ago, and a Buddha can see even more than that. Whereas, contrasting with other ascetics, they will see it as a candle flame, something smaller in terms of vision. I don't really remember exactly what it goes in there.

It's not also about just the number of lives that you see, because you can see 100,000, you can see 200,000 and all of that. But like you said, the insight into anatta, the understanding that this is actually impersonal. And that's why I say when you look into past lives, your attention is not really on the life or the subject of each of these lives, but the karmic strength that arises and passes away, dependent upon causes and conditions that is rolled forward by the gears of dependent origination. So you're actually seeing how dependent origination arises

and then happens in every moment of each of these lives. And thereby, you're able to see with your own knowledge and vision. But actually, this is our impermanent, not in-person process. Lots of questions. Can you tell a little bit more about the difference between meta, feeling, and joy, and pity. And also another question, in perception or non-perception, these proto-thoughts that you are talking about sounds a lot to me like hypnagogic state. The whole process looks like you are falling asleep, consciously. At some point, no more hypnagogic thoughts, only he has dreamless sleep, conscious, mindful. In the first case, the joy and the metta. The joy is actually very much tied to a higher kind of vibration.

It just feels more exciting. It has a certain kind of energy to it. The metta, too, in relation to compassion. But the metta is definitely softer than the feeling of pity, feeling of the joy factor of jhana. It is like a bubbling, exactly, it's effervescent, but the metta is it's stable, it's like, you know, it keeps going. Now with the either perception or non-perception with the proto-thoughts, yes, it is very much likened to the hypnagogic state. Absolutely, and so what you're experiencing is the dreaming and all of these different things, and then finally the clarity of mind where it's a conscious dreamless deep sleep. Yes, that's in other traditions they call it. Would you please just repeat, in all the different jhanas, the different cessations that occur in the first one, the hindrances, and the next one?

So in the first jhana, the hindrances cease. In the second jhana, the thinking and examining thought ceases. In the third jhana, the joy ceases. In the fourth jhana, the sukkha ceases. That's the pleasure of the body. In infinite space, the relation to the body ceases. In infinite consciousness, the perception of infinite space ceases. In nothingness, the perception of infinite consciousness ceases. In neither perception or non-perception, the perception of no-thingness ceases. and then in cessation of perception of the unconsciousness, all of that ceases. We will go into further depth about what actually also ceases, because Anadhi will preview. I mean, in the case of the first jhana, the sensory attachments start to cease, and then verbal formations start to cease by the time of the second jhana.

And then bodily formations, that is, the verbal sankharas, and the bodily sankharas cease at the fourth jhana, and in the mental sankharas, it's ceased completely in the cessation of perception, feeling, and consciousness. Can you give some examples of what are bodily sankharas? Related to the breath. The breath becomes almost imperceptible, related to bodily movement. Obviously, you sit still, so nothing is going on, but it's more about your connection to the body. You'll feel less and less of the mind itself.

And then to go back with this question here, in your experience as you, with your sleep, if I remember correctly what you shared in the past, can you maintain your consciousness throughout, your awareness throughout sleep? Are these stages of jhana literally the same or very similar to what you experience as the body shuts down and goes into different stages of sleep? So when I experience, for example, the dream state, there are no dreams there. It's just this luminosity that's there, and then when you're going to deep sleep, even that luminosity phase, there's just the awareness of awareness. It's very similar to the experience of the jhanas. So you go three. There's more questions in this.

Yeah, go ahead. So how long should that cessation be to be considered a jhana? It could happen in seconds or longer? You mean, when you say cessation, like... The cessation of those hindrances... Going away? Yes. For a long period of time, and that's relative. It could be anywhere from a minute to ten minutes. So in ten minutes, you would consider that you are, for example, in the first jhana? Like I said, it's relative. It's depending upon what other factors are present. It's not just the cessation of certain experiences, but also the presence of the other factors of the subsequent jhana. So in the case of the first jhana, it's not just the non-presence of hindrances and the presence of enlightenment factors, but also the presence of joy and the presence of unification of mind and so on, the other factors that we talked about.

Likewise for the second, third, and fourth. My question is too basic. I'm sorry if I'm digressing from the current discussion. Can you tell us more about forgiveness meditation? Today, Venerable Vethananda told me about it. It helped me a lot. And what is there in Buddha's literature about forgiveness meditation? Thank you. Since you mentioned Venigal Mepananda. Yeah, so the way to think about forgiveness meditation is that you're basically training your mind to let go of the past so that you can be completely content in the present.

So many of us have had difficult scenarios where we're either treated badly by others or we treat others in a way that we regret later. And then that sticks to the conscience somehow. The conscience says, I shouldn't have done that. And that can make it difficult to generate the feeling of metta. And it can create some blocks in the practice that prevent it from going deeper.

So it's a practice that we prescribe to people who are initially having some trouble bringing up the metta or if there's just some kind of a feeling of a blockage. But really it's something that everyone should try, I think, at some point. Our teacher, Bhante Namoram, sleeped at this for two years, two years straight. It wasn't the only practice he was doing, but he said there was always more to forgive. And I found the same thing when I go back to it. Sometimes there's deeper layers of forgiveness that need to happen. So it's a very powerful practice, and it's one of the only two practices that are taught in the Theravada tradition. And there's kind of a funny story where a group of Russian Theravada practitioners,

they couldn't figure out what forgiveness meant because there's no word in Russian for it. And so that might tell us something about the parent politics. But they were looking for a word that might mean something similar, and they realized that acceptance is kind of the same. And that's another way to think about it, is you're accepting what may have happened. You're accepting yourself the way that you are. You're accepting any decisions you made in the past and just coming to terms with them, becoming at peace with whatever happened.

So, yeah, again, it's a really, it's a self-exploration. And the key with this practice is not to get caught up in the story of whatever happened. You know, that's therapy and that might have its own uses, but this is really more about letting go of whatever it is. Just releasing it from the mind so that it doesn't stick around anymore.

And I guess the last thing I'll say is that one way to know, at least initially, that the forgiveness practice has really worked well for you is that if you repeat a phrase like, I'm a good person, and you really feel like, yeah, that's true. I am a good person. Then you can feel like completely at ease with yourself, that you really deserve the love and kindness, that you deserve to be happy. So I hope that answered your question. I don't know if you have anything else. So the last part about that, which was, is there any reference by the book that I've got? Oh yeah, so I mean it's really a form of

it's a form of loving kindness. It's a form of self-compassion. Those are kind of, those are other words for it. And the other thing I'd say is that I think our modern societies need more of this just because of our kind of upbringings and our culture. So, while the Buddha didn't specifically discuss forgiveness in those words, as far as I'm aware, you know, it's aligned with his entire message and teaching of loving kindness and compassion. I think also, if I'm not mistaken, when the sangha comes together, they have that whole process of confessing and then there's a process of forgiveness as well. So yeah, that's a really good point. Let's see if I can get the Pali right, but there's also a phrase that you would repeat to a teacher as a monk.

You'd say, And it's basically saying, forgive me, teacher, because I've, you know, for any deeds of body, speech or mind that I've done that are improper. And with Bhante Vimalaramsi, I would actually do that with him every morning for a long period of time. We'd meet in the mornings and each of us confess to each other about that.

Also, when it comes to forgiveness, it's a great antidote for bitterness and resentment. And it can actually lead to certain insights, which is first and foremost that what another person did to you is their karma. It has nothing to do with you as a war. Whatever it is that they did is out of their own suffering. So you come to this level of mature understanding as you go through that process of forgiveness. And so you leave that to them, because if you react in such a way that then you become mixed in with that karma, then that's not needed. But then if you understand that everybody's responsible for their own actions,

has nothing to do with you, then you can start to accept it and let go. Some people have said, I don't feel comfortable forgiving someone because I feel like it's condoning what they did. But forgiveness isn't that, it's just saying you accept the apology you're never going to get. You're releasing your own mind. You're doing yourself a favor. And also recognizing that everyone's trying their best to be happy, no matter how confused their attempts might be.

Yeah, there's a question. I just wanted to understand, in my understanding, the jhanas are, of course, they're states of mind, and the mind is getting sourced out. And full-fledged shamatha is lower than the first jhana, and in order to get full-fledged shamatha from what I have learned from my teachers, you need to be able to stay with your object of meditation at least for four hours uninterrupted. So given that shamatha is lower than the first jhana, when you are saying that you know, through this process, through this retreat, this is not the question anybody's practice and experience here, but just to clarify, you know, I'm not talking about the duration for which the first jhana would last, but just for us to be clear, at least from your system, what level of mind you were talking about just with the first jhana. So that's my first question. I have others but they're different. So I, I, I think this might be related to access concentration, maybe that's what it's known as in certain traditions.

The idea is that you come to a point where your mind becomes very, very concentrated, and then you go through a process of these jhanas. So there you're doing it, but then you come out of that jhana and then you go through a process of insight, if I'm not mistaken about that. But here what we're talking about is that these jhanas are not exactly the same experiences we're talking about from other traditions. They're just facilitators for deeper insights to arise. So the jhanas themselves are not the goal, as it were. So maybe our definition of jhana would be different from what you know majority of people would say is jhana. Here what we're saying is it's more of a state of mind that you allow, you cultivate, for the allowing of insights, here, please. But there must be some prerequisite of what it means to enter the first jhana. Yeah, it means first and foremost no hindrances in the mind, and that your mind becomes collected, and that you experience these different factors.

That's how we've been proposing. Yeah, also, I'll just add, there's an interesting sutta called the Finger Snap Sutta. The Buddha says, whoever has a mind of loving kindness for even a finger snap is said to be not devoid of jhana. So there's a lot of, this is like an age-old debate. I wonder if it's Alan Wallace. I know there's others who have various levels of very strict definitions of jhana, but that's the concentration jhana or hard jhana versus the aware jhanas, which is in this tradition. And the aware jhana is yoga, the samaton of the pastime. Can I ask my second question, please? I also wanted to know that in the Tibetan tradition specifically, they highly discourage the state of neither perception nor non-perception, saying that actually while the mind does get subtler, it makes your mind extremely dull.

And not only that you can stay in it for a few hours, you can stay in it for lifetimes. And rebirth in the animal realm. This is a very famous debate between Kamala, Sheetan, and Hashan. So just want to know your audience on that. Thanks. I don't think I'm qualified to actually comment on that. Again, I think that's an either perception or non-perception experience in the concentration jhanas. So can you make a distinction between what you mean is a concentration jhana versus an awareness jhana? Do you remember the spectrum I went through the other day, the spectrum of awareness? So in a concentration jhana, you're solely focused on one piece of input to the exclusion of all else.

Whereas in the aware jhana, your mind's collected, and you're fully there, but you're still able, as the sutta that Dustin just read, you're able to, you're leaving enough room for different things to come into the mind, like the factors that Sariputu was aware of as they occurred. And so that allows your mind to be open enough to get insights. And when it comes to neither perception or non-perception, Sometimes in the sutras, it does say that one goes through, for example, in Majinikai 52, it talks about how you go through the first four jhanas, you experience the different pramogiharas, and then you go into the experiences of the infinite space, infinite consciousness, and nothingness. And he calls these 11 doorways to Nibbam, or the 11 paths to Nibbam, the 11 doors.

So he excludes either perception or non-perception, maybe for that reason. But either perception or non-perception happens in a way that is, it might not last for a long time either. And it could last for a long time, but even if it does, the dullness that is experienced would be the Satham Purpur. There is a difference here. When you do experience the neither perception or non-perception with this practice, there's an alertness there. There's a brightness there. And there's an awareness there.

As for you could stay in it for lifetimes or, I don't know, you said it leads you to the animal realms. I don't know what exactly it is that you had said, but I haven't heard about that before, so that's what I'm saying. I can't really answer to that. Two questions. One is, to what level does one-pointed concentration take you? It can take you through all of these jhanas, but the quality of the experience of these jhanas is different compared to not one point in concentration. In other words, with one point in concentration you can be in that jhana to such an extent that it's to the exclusion of all other experiences.

If that person is even in the first jhana and has one point in concentration you will not be able to shake them out of that experience. So the degrees of concentration would be different. The degrees of absorption in which the mind becomes fully encompassed by these factors would differ. To achieve all these jhanas, do you need a retreat or your daily sittings can also achieve something? With your daily sittings also. The ones that we're talking about, you can still experience outside of retreat. I was wondering about this part in the suttas when the Buddha finished their ascetic practices and he remembers when he was a little boy and spontaneously entered the first jhana. In that kind of jhana, he thought, well, maybe this is the path to Nibbana.

and he got confirmation from, I don't know where, but they have confirmation. This kind of jhana, like the Buddha experienced when he was young, is like a different jhana that the Buddha learned when he was training from the jhanas that they were teaching at that time in India. So I was wondering if the twin aware genres are more inspired by this more spontaneous, open awareness genres, and maybe the later genres, full absorption, the commentary, and all that. They are really more going to the side of the genres than they actually would have rejected. Yeah, the story, I think, is that he did go through all the way to nothingness with Alara Kalama and then with the other person, Ramaputta.

He said that, I don't know the way to it, but I have not experienced it for myself, he tells the Bodhisattva. And he goes from either perception or non-perception. But he realizes for himself that this is not the way leading to it. And then he remembers in his mind when he was under the rose apple tree that he was in a very pleasant inviting. And he says, perhaps this is the way to Nibbana. And from there he starts through that process. As to whether that could be a different kind of jhana, we can't really comment on that, right? Because there's only that much of that story and then actually he goes through the fourth jhana and then from the fourth jhana he experiences the threefold knowledge.

So from the fourth jhana he goes into his past lives, he goes into the arising and passing away of living beings, seeing their karma or how karma works and then attains the destruction of the third knowledge and thereby then attains the Dhamma. So there's a debate about which jhana is better or what is this jhana, what is that jhana. I try to stay away from that and just see what is effective. If it works for you, then do that.

Hi, I just wanted to know, so these jhanas, after one achieves a certain jhana, let's say four or five. Based on non-practice, based on certain actions of the areas, do people downgrade and come down to a jhana which was something that they had already achieved earlier? How does it work? So the way to understand these jhanas is that you need consistent practice with it. But it's like muscle memory. When you go back into it, you continue doing it.

But the jhanas are predicated, or the jhanas which constitute samadhi, are predicated upon sila: continuing to keep your sila. What you will notice is if you do break sila, it becomes more difficult for your mind to be collected. And obviously by that, you aren't able to get into that channel as you were before. You can still do it, but it might take you more effort and more time.

In this retreat, we are continuously practicing meditation and all. My practical question is, when we will go back to our work, being a doctor in my profession, mine is a very hectic schedule and a very erratic sleep pattern. How can we continue the practice when we go back to our daily schedules? You have to have some kind of consistent practice where you can practice at least for an hour a day. If you can build yourself to where you can practice sitting for an hour a day, you can take one hour out of the day and commit that towards practicing. It doesn't matter what time that is, but just do that. And then towards at some point in the week where you do have time, a lot of time on your hands.

Maybe it could be once a month or maybe it could be once every two weeks. You could have a self-retreat and just dedicate yourself to doing the practice and having a retreat where you commit maybe four or five, six hours of that day towards the practice. This practice is actually very cumulative in its approach, which means that as you keep doing it more and more, it starts to build momentum.

And because it builds momentum, you start to have deeper insights and you start to have deeper experiences. So that's why there is an emphasis on consistent practice. But that has to be according to your schedule. The question which I have is not related to the discussion, but what would you think is, what usually works better? Is it walking meditation or sitting meditation? I have had varying degrees of luck with both. I felt that during the day, today, walking was a lot more effective than sitting. But what would you recommend? Is that what is the tough time to have? I think sitting meditation should always be given a little more importance than walking meditation.

Walking meditation, like I said before, allows you to be able to experience the loving kindness or whatever the object is, and allows you to experience it in whatever it is you're doing. That's the purpose of the walking meditation. The sitting meditation is here you are with your mind and nothing else, and now you're dealing with the hindrances, you're dealing with all the different attachments and things that arise in the mind, and learning how to let them go. It doesn't mean that you can't do that in walking meditation. But it's just, you can do it easier while you're doing sitting meditation.

I mean, you explain it like a gradual process of how to get there, like shutting down different levels of cessation to go there. But I mean, there are these cases, like sudden awakening cases, that don't follow, or don't seem to follow, that pattern. I mean, I remember there was one book that was describing cases of sudden awakening. There were people, like, getting into a public pass or having a kind of awakening experience. I don't know if it's the same as the Nirodha you're describing or if it's different. What's going on in those cases? What do you think? So, I've heard of cases where people have done this practice and maybe not experienced Nirodha, but while maybe just washing the dishes, all of a sudden they have this sudden awakening.

Or they're walking and then suddenly the mind just goes blank and there's like a blackout for a moment, and then they have an awakening. Or they're in the dining hall and they're just eating their food. But I think I would say that all of these are still dependent upon the momentum of previous practice, some kind of practice. So it could be a karmic ripening, let's say, of previous practices that were done before. Yes, definitely. In one of the suttas that the Buddha talks about, actually, it could be the Buddha Ananda, he talks about there are four ways leading to awakening. One is one gets into samatha, which then leads to vipassana.

Another is where one has vipassana, which then leads to samatha. And third is where samatha and vipassana are yoked together. And the fourth is the mind becomes agitated about the Dhamma, and then suddenly experiences it. So different causes and conditions, different factors can lead to it. Agitated about the Dhamma? Yeah, there's restlessness. And suddenly the mind becomes calm and it experiences the time. Is that the end of listening to Ananda talk? Yeah, it can happen with listening to Ananda talk. But I'm also reminded of Ananda's example, where he was supposed to go to the first council and only Ananda was going to be at the council. And he was pacing back and forth and figuring out what he could do.

and then just before his head could fill him, boom, he became an arahant. And he came into that council with style. He was floating in the air, levitating. At least that's the story I heard. This following up on the doctor's question says that going back home, to the normal life again. Consistency is where cumulative is where you can basically go ahead and achieve something more. Is there besides that, for instance, the kind of food that you eat, like here in the tree, you recommend not having solid food after noon, right? Similarly, is there any other recommendation that you have in terms of diet or any other areas of daily life? I think with diet, it's debatable also because it depends upon a person's constitution.

It depends upon what they're used to, what kind of food they're used to eating. And you can experiment with that and see what works for you. But that's the thing, right? First of all, don't get so bogged down upon what would make it better. What can do this or that. That's just all different factors that might have some kind of an effect. Always remember, it comes back to the quality of your intentions, quality of your mind. And that's not always just depending upon the food you eat, but depending upon what you do in terms of walking or not walking or this or that. What time of day you meditate, what time of day you go to sleep.

All of these things, you know, they have some effect, but you try to optimize it or you try to make a perfect schedule or whatever it is, but that's just another kind of craving for existence. That's just getting caught up in identity with what the process should be or how it should be. And by the way, guys, we still have a few days before the retreat ends. I don't know why you guys are talking about what do I do after the retreat. I'm a bit confused. In the twin system, is there the union of samatha and vipassana required at any stage? It happens automatically. In a sense, what's happening is, like I said, the jhanas here are just the background of the mind.

And so the insights that arise are not like you have to intentionally go and analyze what's going on. If you have a mind that's just observing what's going on, then the insights will naturally arise. So the samatha and vipassana that we talk about, like the twin, the words of twin, tranquil, wisdom, insight, meditation, really what it's referring to is samatha vipassana. So it's the tranquility aspect, which is the samatha. And then the vipassana, which is the insight and wisdom that arises. So what I'm trying to understand is, how do you define shamatha in your system?

Because at some point you are talking about the union of shamatha and vipassana. Basically a mind that is tranquil. A mind that experiences tranquility. What does that mean? A calm mind. A serene mind. A mind void of any kind of distractions. And so how does one achieve that state? Through the 6R's, by letting go. I see. Because it seems very unclear in the sense of, you know, when does shamatha and vipassana arrive, what is shamatha? So it's very, for me, it's confusing. So I'm just wondering if you can give more clarity.

Sure, yeah, I'll give it a shot. Shamatha is a collected, calm mind. And so if you're in jhana and there's no distractions, your mind's collected, but that doesn't mean it has to be one-pointed. Because you're aware of everything that's happening in that kind of bubble of awareness, you're able to gain insights. So vipassana means to see through. So you're kind of seeing how your mind works. Because the mind is collected in this bubble without any distractions, it's stable enough that you can see kind of the micro-moments. You can see that origination as it's happening.

I guess one analogy, too, is you're basically settling all this sediment. If you think about a murky pond or something, all that sediment is settled, and the water is clear enough that you can actually have insight into how the process works. So would it be fair to say that from the first jhana onwards, in this system, one has union of shamatha and vipassana? Yes. In this way? Yes. Okay, thanks. So you're not like getting to a certain jhana and then emerging and doing vipassana. The insight can happen, or they do happen in every jhana. For example, even just the insight in the third jhana, that the joy, the piti, is a little bit uncomfortable, there's a little dukkha in it, and then that subsides, and now there's more of just a tranquil sukkha.

That is an insight in itself as you're letting go of these different levels of cessation. That is also part of the vipassana. I am okay. My question is related to forgiveness meditation. They would get into some kind of calm state of mind, because they don't really experience the joy factor necessarily, they only experience the calm collectiveness, but they are also experiencing thinking and examining thought because they're using the words of I forgive you, whatever the phrases might be. You come to a point where they're accepting whatever has happened and letting you go, so it's not necessary that they are in the first because there's no joy there. I want to say thank you. Yesterday he shared a good quote. I can't take credit for that, by the way.

I also thank you. After talking to you, my meditation was much, much better than 100%. Thank you so much. Retreat time, let's talk about nirvana. Each one of us here, we've come to this 10-day retreat to experience relief. I just have a practical question about this. We're sleeping less, we are meditating most of the time. Is it possible to mistake, say, a moment of sleepiness or just falling asleep for a few seconds? Yeah. Oh, yeah, definitely. So how would one differentiate this moment of sleepiness or just going to sleep while being meditated? So I don't want to put too much emphasis on what happens in post-nirodha because I don't want to influence your minds.

But there's a level of lucidity. There's a level of energy. There's a level of joy that happens post-cessation. Whereas if you're asleep or you come out of that sleep, you feel groggy and tired. So it's important to recognize that. And, yeah, I mean, the post-nirodha experience is, you will know it, you will know it for sure, without a doubt, because it is, it will be something like you've never experienced before, let's just say. I have a quick question. One was used to that jhanas are in the periphery. So what is the reason to make metta and say mudita? Or is there a specific reason in this tradition?

So the metta is just the first in the four brahmaviharas. Like I was saying earlier, you could take buddha, you could take compassion, you could take equanimity as your object and then just stay with that. But here what we're doing is actually we're taking the metta and we're sending it to a spiritual friend and then we're sending it to other categories of people, which, by the way, is found in the Vesuri Mata. That's just the way Bhante Vimalaramsi has structured it.

There have been times where people just start with radiating equanimity, for example, but that's just depending upon where their mind is or how their mindset is. But for the general audience or the general participants, we first start off with sending that to yourself and your spiritual friend. And then accordingly, as we understand where our mind is with the interviews, then we can actually tweak your practice individually. Also, one of the things that you said was to enjoy the practice, and I want to read that in addition to what you said in the first orientation about one of the two hindrances that you see. One of them is non-acceptance. So is acceptance of whatever is happening kind of tied into this, enjoying the practice?

How does that kind of work? So they're aversion that you're talking about, they're non-acceptance, so yeah, accepting things as they actually are. That's the equanimity factor of this. The enjoyment is just basically treating it like a game. Don't be so technical. I'm telling everybody, don't be so technical. Don't just treat it like more of an art form rather than some kind of technical engineering thing that you have to do, because when you're going through these jhanas you also start to realize that these jhanas actually kind of overlap. You can't necessarily tell you're here or you're there or whatever it might be. So treat it like a game. This is what I was saying before, have fun with it. I still don't see a lot of people smiling whenever I see them. They're all very morose

probably thinking about this or that. You really want to have fun. Come back to your inner child, just relax, have fun with it. Laugh if you can. Make jokes, really have fun, enjoy yourself. That's what I mean when I say enjoy yourself. The more your mind becomes light, the easier it is for you to just take things impersonally. And the more you do that, the easier it is for you to recognize insights when they happen. And then when hindrances do arise, you don't take them personally. You don't get so caught up in that. So laughing at yourself is a big one. Laughing at the mind. The monkey mind, right? Just laughing at that and allowing it to be that.

And just saying, oh, there's the mind again. It's doing its tricks. And then when you make it fun, when you take away the sting of the hindrance by identifying with it, then it's much easier for you to deal with it. And then you're reconditioning the mind to be able to deal with difficult situations in the same way. If you're dealing with a situation where there's conflict, you can start to see in your own mind and recognize where anger might arise or resistance might arise. And then you can let go of it and have a much clearer mind, which means then you can respond in a way that actually alleviates the situation rather than escalates it.

So the whole practice is not about getting into jhana. That's not the practice here. One of our organizers, when I was in San Francisco, he said that. He said, this is not a jhana retreat. This is a nibbana retreat. This is about letting go of suffering. So jhanas help facilitate that in one way or the other. But what you're doing here in this retreat is you're teaching yourself how your mind works.

You're teaching yourself where it is that you have certain kinds of resistance. Where it is that you have certain kinds of attachment. And you're using tools like smiling, like laughing, like loving kindness, like compassion, like forgiveness. So that in daily situations where you are caught up in daily life and you are met with situations that are difficult, you can deal with them in such a way that it doesn't add to your karmic strength, but actually starts to let go.

It doesn't add to that repository of continual karma. But actually you're able to see it for what it is, take a pause, relax, and then respond. Like I said yesterday, respond with wisdom and compassion, respond with intuition. This is the other aspect of this whole retreat: you are getting in touch with your intuition. What is intuition? It is that mind that is beyond the thinking mind. It is that mind that doesn't use or depend upon previous causes and conditions to come up with an answer.

It's a mind that is always in the realm of insight. Intuition is that mind that always experiences those eureka moments. So you are able to then, it guides you, right? That's the right view of the samaditi, which we'll go over in the next few days, which guides you in knowing what is right and what is wrong, and what is perfect for the situation and what would not be perfect for the situation.

What would be most beneficial for everyone concerned. So by seeing your mind and by understanding it, and by letting go of the hindrances, by letting go of attachments, by letting go of the sources of the attachment and aversion, you're clarifying your mind. And by bringing up these innate qualities of loving kindness and compassion and so on, you're coming back to that, to use certain terminology, the Buddha nature, which is part of that whole intuitive mind, being able to know what is required for every single moment. And it will always be perfect, whatever it might be. So, I really like the task point which you said about the fact that this is not a general. To be very honest, I think although I did manage to understand most of what you spoke about, I think for me to have a grasp about it, I'll have to read up about it at leisure. But I just had a question, sorry if it was very silly, but what is the degree of success that most people have had with the jhana technique in terms of going through all these jhanas and going all the way to Nibbana?

Like, in the sense, are there folks in the present day right now who have managed to do that? What do you think? Success rate is pretty good. Yeah. Pretty good. Is this a question to motivate you to know that, okay, this is... Yeah, I know. Well, I'll tell you what. A lot of people, they experience a lot of letting go of suffering, first and foremost.

A lot of people have greater insight into the Dhamma. So, a lot of times, whatever discourses that we're giving you, whatever talks that are happening, they might sound very complicated initially, and they might have a lot of words and a lot of different explanations. But that's okay. Even if you don't understand what's being said, that's okay. Your practice will start to inform you of the same things that I'm talking about right now.

A lot of times people will go into the suttas and they'll read it, and it's like this maze of words, and it's just like this language that needs to be decoded. You know, it's very cryptic in the way that it's understood. I mean, even this word, neither perception or non-perception. You listen to people talking like, oh, today I was in nothingness. What about you? I was in neither perception or non-perception. What are you talking about?

Right? Or I was in infinite space, in infinite consciousness. So, you go into the suttas and you read that, and it's like, what are they talking about? But once you start to experience it for yourself, you go back to the suttas, and you're able to really understand. So that's one of the things that happens. A lot of people read one sutta, they're not able to understand it. And then through their own practice and through their own experience, they go back to that sutta, and it's like the experience has decoded that language.

So that's another benefit. Another thing is, people are just more uplifted, much happier. That's what we have in this. People are able to crack jokes when times are difficult and are able to just see things in a way that doesn't stress them out. Now, if you want to talk about people who have experienced different kinds of levels of awakening, that could be debatable, because there have been people who have said they've achieved this or they've achieved that. But even if they told you that they've achieved this, or even if I told you that there are people who have achieved this, what difference does it make to you? You wouldn't really know, you know?

Even those people wouldn't really know until they actually experience life fully, go through different situations, and are able to see how their mind interprets those situations and how it reacts to them. So one of the things you will see for yourself, that people have seen for themselves, is how things that used to bother them don't bother them anymore. Their relationships with people in their family or in their circle of friends, where they get irritated by people's certain idiosyncrasies, now they don't get bothered as much. You know, they get less interested in things that waste time in their life, and they get more interested in things that are beneficial for their time. So these are some of the benefits.

Yeah, absolutely. I'd just like to add that I think I've been trying to do the meditation for a while now, and I think that for the while that I was trying it, and until this retreat, I really benefited a lot from it. And since I came here it has gone up a lot higher than I was watching what I was doing. So, you know, I mean, it has, like, especially in the last one day, thanks to Venerable Metta and the US, I think it has been a phenomenal change. I'm happy to hear that. Yeah. So, is there any comment on doing jhana as you fall asleep, or before you fall asleep?

Because before I'm going into nothingness, right before I'm, or while I'm in bed, and then I just kind of wake up like 30 minutes later and I'm still in nothingness. Yeah. And then it seems like maybe that's not the best way to try to fall asleep. Yeah, probably not. I mean, you can experiment, and you can go through each jhana, and you might find that you can't sleep. A lot of people, when they go through these experiences, find that they're unable to fall asleep because their mind is just so attentive to what's going on. Just before they fall asleep, they notice all of these different micro-thoughts going on. So it might not be the best thing for sleep.

I just have one comment. When I was reading about the jhanas, I was looking through the different names, and I saw infinite space. I was like, oh, that sounds pretty cool. Then infinite consciousness, I was like, oh, that sounds even cooler. Then the next one was nothing, but it sounded like, well, it's just stuck there. Any last questions?