June 12, 2021– DN 33 – The Chanting Together – Fourth Recitation – Sets of seven

And I'm going to continue with the sets of seven. There are sets of seven things which have been perfectly proclaimed by the Blessed One. Seven Aryan Treasures: faith, morality, moral shame, moral dread, learning, renunciation, wisdom. So faith here is in relation to having conviction in the Buddha, in what he rediscovered as the Dhamma, and in the Sangha that continues on teaching and studying and providing wisdom based on that Dhamma. Morality has to do with the five precepts at the very basic, but it's essentially keeping one's precepts and maintaining them and being virtuous.

Moral shame, which is translated from hiri, that's really, the last time I discussed this, is the moral compass. Once you are established in the five precepts, or any amount of precepts that you have, but the five basic precepts, then your mind is purified by that. And there is a moral compass, a conscience, that essentially keeps the mind away from trying to commit mentally, verbally, or physically any immoral actions. So it keeps the mind situated and orientated towards maintaining the precepts.

Moral dread, which comes from otapa, is really the understanding of the consequences if one breaks one of the precepts. So because one has continued to cultivate maintaining the precepts and continue to have that commitment to maintaining them, there arises naturally a thought when there is an inclination to break that precept because of certain underlying tendencies or defilements of consciousness or formations that are rooted in the unwholesome roots. When some kind of inclination like that comes about, a thought immediately arises: if one were to do this, what would be the consequence? So it acts like a deterrent from one committing any kind of breaking of the precepts. Learning here is in relation to remembering the Dhamma, in relation to studying the Dhamma, in relation to hearing the Dhamma.

Of course, watching Dhamma talks, having discussions, and essentially rooting one's understanding in that learning. Renunciation here is translated from the word chaga, which really is not the same as nekama. Nekama is a commitment or an intention to let go and abandon any kind of identification with sensory or mental experiences, so it is completely letting go of any underlying attachments or underlying aversion towards any kind of sensual or mental experience. But chaga here is in relation to selflessness, or not expecting something in return. The context chaga is used in is usually when one expresses generosity. The highest generosity, any kind of generosity, is to be able to exercise that generosity without looking for anything in return, without expecting anything in return.

And wisdom here essentially is pranya, which is the understanding of the four noble truths, getting one's view oriented towards right view and ultimately seeing through the reality as it is in the context of dependent origination and the three characteristics. Seven factors of enlightenment: mindfulness, investigation of phenomena, energy, delight, tranquility, collectedness and equanimity. So we've spoken on these enlightenment factors in the past, but just to revisit them: mindfulness here is essentially the bare observation of something, whether it is the arising and passing away of sensations or mental experiences, the arising and passing away of the five aggregates, or seeing how certain thoughts and mindsets arise and pass away. Just essentially observing. So observing, or mindfulness, is the beginning of meditation practice. It's the setting of the intention to pay attention to something, and so the object of one's attention is being observed, is being made mindful of. And then the investigation of phenomena doesn't only mean to reflect and to analyze, but deeper than that, it is the understanding of states as and when they arise. So when you have the mindfulness of, in meditation, loving kindness for example,

you have the discernment that the mind is collected. You have the discernment that the mind has mindfulness of the object of attention, the object of meditation, which is loving kindness. And so that discernment of what it is that the mind is doing or experiencing is really the investigation factor. Energy here is the joyful interest that one takes, but also taking the effort to eliminate any of the hindrances that arise, to let go of them and abandon them. You first of all recognize them and stop them from continuing to flow, letting them go, then experiencing the relief from that by relaxing and tranquilizing formations, and then coming back to a more wholesome object through the smile and returning to the object of meditation

and repeating whenever required. This is really energy or effort. Delight here is translated from piti, which arises from continually staying with your object of meditation. That will naturally arise because the mind is secluded from any sensual pleasures, withdrawn from any sensual pleasures. So that happens in the first jhana. When you smile as well during the six R's process, there is some upliftment of mind. There's the uplifted mind through joy. And the tranquility factor here is a mind that is relaxed, it's open and spacious. So we've discussed before the interconnection between tranquility and joy. Joy can bring about tranquility, and tranquility, the spacious mind after relaxing, can bring about a natural sense of joy. All of these then culminate into collectedness, which is to say a unified mind, a mind that is essentially centered around the object of meditation, not absorbed or super focused on it, but collected enough to be preoccupied with it enough so that there is enough space for the mind to observe if hindrances arise.

So, or if any kind of insight arises. So from that collectedness, with the mind continuing to be collected, there is this natural equanimity that arises. That natural equanimity is essentially seeing reality as it is without being disturbed in either direction, so understanding how reality arises as it is without grabbing onto it with any kind of delight or having aversion towards it, without any kind of ill will. So this is really that equanimity factor. Seven requisites of collectedness, that is to say: right view, right intention, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort and right mindfulness. So after you have had the right view, the mundane right view, of understanding certain components of that right view, having gratitude for birth through one's parents, understanding that there is a causation to action, any good action can return a good action, bad action can return a bad effect, good effect or bad effect. So seeing the law of karma in some way, understanding that causation, understanding that there is the possibility of spontaneous rebirth

and spontaneous generation of bodies, that there is this world and there is another world. So, having the open-mindedness to be able to say that this could be a possibility, and understanding that there are people who have this right view and that they can direct one towards establishing that right view. That then gives rise to seeing and being introduced to the super mundane right view, which is the understanding of the four noble truths. There is first the intellectual understanding of the four noble truths, and as one experiences the attainments there is finally a complete understanding and application of the four noble truths. When one is an arahant, with that right view comes right intention, and that right intention has the three factors, which is, as we earlier discussed, nekama or renunciation, non-ill will, so essentially cultivating a mindset filled with loving kindness and not having an iota of ill will present in the mind, and non-cruelty.

So having compassion and understanding for people, in the way of seeing that all beings experience suffering, and so one doesn't have the intention to add to that suffering through anger or resentment or intention to harm. This translates to right speech: one abstains from false speech, abstains from harsh speech and abusive speech, from gossip and idle chatter. And then one also abstains from wrong action and basically cultivates right action, which is abstaining from harming and killing living beings, abstaining from taking what is not given, and abstaining from sensual misconduct. That includes sexual misconduct, but any kind of misconduct which causes carelessness and heedlessness through any of the experience of the sixth sense basis. And there is also the abstaining from intoxicants that can give rise to heedlessness, so that is implied within right action. To abstain from that. Right livelihood is abstaining from the five types of trade, as we know: abstaining from selling poisons, selling intoxicants, selling weapons

selling meat, and dealing in slavery and human trafficking. Right effort is the four right efforts: first and foremost, preventing unwholesome states from rising, abandoning the already arisen unwholesome states, generating wholesome states, and maintaining those wholesome states through the six R's process. And right mindfulness is understanding how to apply the four foundations of mindfulness: mindfulness of the body, mindfulness of the mind and the consciousness of mind states, mindfulness of sensations, mindfulness of phenomena of the five aggregates, the four noble truths, the understanding and application of seven factors of enlightenment, so on.

And so when all of these come together, there is a mind that is ready for samadhi, ready for collectedness, ready for meditation, dependent upon these factors which all build into each other. Each leads to the other, and ultimately culminates into right collectedness, which then unlocks the right insight and right liberty. Seven wrong practices: here a monk lacks faith, lacks moral shame, lacks moral dread, has little learning, is slack, is unmindful, and lacks wisdom. So here these are the wrong practices for a monastic. Someone who doesn't have faith in the teacher, doesn't have faith in the teachings, and doesn't have faith in their companions in the holy life. Somebody who doesn't have a moral conscience, because they don't continue to follow the five precepts, and who doesn't have any inkling of seeing what kind of consequences there could arise, so they lack the moral dread.

They have little learning, or little interest in learning, so they don't really have a general interest in understanding the Dhamma through talks, through reading and studying and discussion, and so on. Is slack, meaning they're not interested in cultivating right effort so that they can be mindful, so that they can have right collectedness and experience wisdom. So through that slackness there is the person who is unmindful, and therefore they will lack wisdom. And then the counterpoint to that are the seven right practices. Here a monk has faith in the triple gem. They have moral shame, they have that moral compass that is rooted in continuing to maintain the precepts, and moral dread, or understanding the consequences of even inclining towards thinking about breaking a precept. Has much learning, they have a fond interest of understanding the Dhamma through talks, through studying, reading and discussion. Has aroused vigor, that is, they maintain right effort every time. So every time that they see that there is an arising of an unwholesome state, they use a six R's process, they use the right effort to let go of that and experience wholesome states of mind.

has established mindfulness so through that effort they are able to establish mindfulness and because of that and the right collectedness there is the possession of wisdom seven qualities of the true man or the true person here one is a nor of the dhamma of meanings of self of moderation of the right time of groups of persons so here it's relating to one who has perfected uh the dhamma so essentially an arhant and they are the knower of the dhamma they understand dependent origination of meanings they understand the meanings behind the buddha's words meanings behind concepts in the dhamma of self they understand the concept of self-identification

and have completely let go of it, so they have let go of conceit, of moderation. They have very few needs and few wishes, if at all, because they eat in moderation and they only take what is given, so they have no interest in possessing anything. Of the right time, they know what is the right time to speak, when is the right time to give the dhamma, when is the right time to abstain from speaking, and so on and so forth. Of groups, understanding the types of people that are there present, understanding who is part of the sangha and who is part of the lay folk, and of persons, of individual characters, and how to best explain the dhamma to a person dependent upon their inclinations and the different faculties that they possess and the faculties that they have strengthened and the faculties that need strengthening

Seven grounds for commendation. Here a monk is keenly anxious, I think one would say keenly interested, or has a keen interest in, to undertake the training and wants to persist in this, to make a close study of the tama, to get rid of desires, to find solitude, to arouse energy, to develop mindfulness and discrimination, so here one is, and to develop penetrative insight. So one is, these are the seven grounds for commendation, meaning seven grounds for, essentially, giving praise, let's say. And that is because one is interested in doing the training, interested in maintaining the precepts and practicing meditation, and continues to make an effort to do so. They are very interested in the dhamma and the different concepts of the dhamma, and they want to study the deeper aspects of the dhamma. They are interested in getting rid of craving, getting rid of any kind of notion of craving. They are interested in finding a secluded place to find solitude in their mind, to be of a silent mind and to maintain silence

They are keen to arouse energy, to continue to use right effort, continue to use the 6R's process, and to develop mindfulness and discrimination, to develop that ability to be aware in every present moment and to discern what is arising and passing away in every present moment, and from there developing penetrative insight into the lakkhana, into the three characteristics of existence. Seven perceptions: perception of impermanence, of not self, of foulness, of danger, of abandonment, of dispassion and of cessation. So perception of impermanence is to see that there are always things in flux, the arising and passing away of sensations and thoughts, the arising and passing away of different phenomena that is present in one's object of attention or mindfulness

The perception of not self: after having understood that all conditioned things are impermanent, one does not hold on to them, because they are not worth holding on to. They have intrinsic in them, by the very nature of their impermanence, and because of that, not nothing that is conditioned and subject to suffering should be considered to be self. So there is that experience of anatta, the perception of anatta, the emptiness of self in the five aggregates and the sixth sense bases, and the experience of the sixth sense bases, the understanding that there is no self present. It is all just arising and passing away phenomena. Of foulness: so this is the perception of the foulness of the body, understanding the different components of the body inside and out, and seeing or perceiving in mind, contemplating in mind, even going to the charnel grounds where one can see the decay and decomposition of the body, and being able to use that as recollection, as contemplation, to let go of very deep-rooted attachment and craving for sensual pleasures and identification with the body

Of danger, so understanding the drawbacks, understanding the danger of having craving or aversion to something or identifying with anything that is conditioned, because that only leads to further clinging, further being, rebirth, of action, and further dukkha. Of abandonment, so last week we talked about the 6R's process, in which you had the recognition of dukkha, the recognition of something that is unpleasant like a hindrance that is really the dukkha. Then you have the release of your attention from there, and the relax, which is relaxing the trend or tranquilizing the formations rooted in that attention, rooted in that hindrance, letting go, that one experiences that nirodha. So there is that perception of cessation. Then there is the re-smile and the return, and then the repeat. But abandonment here is essentially the abandonment of the origin of suffering, the origin of dukkha. So if you look at it, you will see that in recognizing you are understanding that there is dukkha; in releasing your attention to that hindrance as dukkha, you are releasing the samudaya, the origin of that dukkha; you're releasing the attention which is the cause of that hindrance, the undue unwise

attention that is given, because attention is one of the samudayas. Provided there are four samudayas, but one of them is attention, and if one releases the attention from that, one releases that hindrance. That is the perception of abandonment. Then the experience of nirodha that happens at the relaxed step, then the experience of returning, re-smiling and returning, continues to cultivate the eightfold path, and every time one repeats that, they are cultivating the noble eightfold path or the magga. And from here is the dispassion, so that dispassion arises from equanimity. So that means that when you release your attention, you then relax, there is no attachment to that whole process, there's no aversion towards that whole process. It is just seeing things as they really are without identifying or personalizing with it. Seven powers: faith, energy, moral shame, moral dread, mindfulness, concentration and wisdom

So we understand faith to essentially mean conviction in the teaching, conviction in the Buddha and his rediscovery of the path, conviction in the sangha who continue to cultivate that path and teach others that path. The energy, the persistent effort to continue to maintain the precepts, as well as a persistent effort to continue to let go of unwholesome states and identification and cultivate wholesome states and wisdom. Moral shame, moral dread, we understand as conscience and understanding of consequence. Mindfulness we understand as collectedness and wisdom. Seven stations of consciousness: beings different in body and different in perception, different in body and alike in perception, alike in body and different in perception, alike in body and alike in perception, who have attained to the sphere of infinite space

infinite consciousness and of nothingness. So here the Buddha is talking about the seven stations of consciousness where consciousness can be established. The beings that are different in body and different in perception are essentially humans and animals and some devas within the six, um, six sensuous, uh, heavens, and some beings within the hell realms and the hungry ghosts. So basically that encapsulates all of the beings from the sensuous realm. So the sensual realms, different in body and alike in perception, this is really the brahma realms, because the brahma beings within the brahma realm, which are associated with the first jhana, experience different bodies. There is the mahabrahma, there is the retinue of the brahma, and then the citizens or the assembly people of the brahma realms. So they have different bodies, different likenesses of face and body, but they are alike in perception because they all experience the vitakka, the vichara, the piti and sukha. Alike in body and different in perception, this is in relation to the abhasa realms that are related to the

second jhana. So here all the beings have essentially the same kind of body. The body is made up of light that is basically flickering, and they would look like spheres of light essentially because of the radiance that they have, but they have different perception. There are actually four categories of beings within the abhasa realms. The three that we understand are related to the levels of mastery of the second jhana. There is one which is known, in the translation, as defiled radiance, because there's still an iota of vichara there, there's still an iota of some kind of intention there, and through that thought process. So those are known as the beings who have defiled radiance, so that's how they are different in perception, while the other three, as we understand them, have the perception of joy, great joy and comfort. There is a difference in perception between them and the beings of defiled radiance. Alike in body and alike in perception

So this is in relation to the subakina realms, which are related to the third jhana, and the half of beings which are related to the fourth jhana. They have the same kind of body structure and the same perception, dependent upon the realm that they are in. In the case of the third jhana, they experience sukha, very deep sukha, comfort and happiness and tranquility, and the beings in the behalf Allah experience deep equanimity. Then there are the stations: the beings who have attained to the sphere of infinite space, of infinite consciousness and of nothingness. Neither perception or non-perception is not mentioned here, only because initially there is consciousness present, but the experience is such that it is very subtle, and so the experience is more related to how there is perception nor non-perception. It's neither perception or non-perception

and that's dependent upon the various formations that might be there, and those formations are not fully formed. So that happens in the experience of the ayatana that you experience during meditation, but also for the beings who have it can be birthed in that plane of existence. Seven persons worthy of offerings: the both ways liberated, the wisdom liberated, the body witness, the vision attainer, the faith liberated, the dhamma devotee and the faith devotee. So the both ways liberated is an arahat who has gone through the first four jhanas and the formless jhanas, or the ayatanas, and they have attained arahatship. The wisdom liberated is an arahat who has experienced arahatship and the destruction of the taints through the first four jhanas, so they have gone all the way up to the first four jhanas but not experienced the formless realms. So through wisdom and insight born from the first four jhanas they experience, the body witness is anyone who is up to the level of the anagami

So here it's somebody who has experienced the first four jhanas as well as the four ayatanas and cessation. They've experienced all of that, but they haven't yet destroyed their taints. The reason why it's called body witness is because it's kaya, not the rupa, meaning the physical body. It's kaya, which is the mental body, which is the mental perception, feeling and consciousness that goes through the processes of the four jhanas and the ayatanas, experiences cessation, but has not yet experienced the destruction of the taints. The vision attainer is somebody who has not yet attained the first four jhanas... well, they've attained the first four jhanas, but they haven't attained the formless realms. They are a stream enterer, or they could be a sakadagami or an anagami, but their faculty of wisdom is very sharp, which is to say they experience the Dhamma through study and practice. They have a natural curiosity and interest towards maintaining that vision, maintaining that view.

The faith liberated is essentially one who could be a stream enterer, who could be a sotapanna, who could be a sakadagami, or who could be an anagami, and they have attained the first four jhanas. But they are aware of the understanding of the different principles of the Dhamma, though they haven't gone as deep in understanding the deeper aspects of the Dhamma. They don't really do a lot of studying or reflection in terms of wanting to root their mind within the faculty of wisdom. The faculty of faith is stronger in them. The Dhamma devotee and the faith devotee are essentially like the vision attainer and the faith liberated, but they are the stream enterer. So that's why it's said that when the Dhamma devotee or the faith devotee passes on, if they haven't continued on towards the journey of attainments, they will die as sort upon us, so they will have the attainment of stream entry. The Dhamma devotee is somebody who has essentially entered the stream

walking the path and has great interest and inclination towards understanding the Dhamma on a deeper level. The faith devotee has strong faith and conviction in the Triple Gem and in the path, knowing that this is the way, but they don't necessarily have that much of a keen interest in deepening through study or reflection. But they continue to practice the first four jhanas. So just to understand, you have the both ways liberated, who go through the first four jhanas and the four ayatanas and experience our hardship. The wisdom liberated goes through the first four jhanas and experiences our hardship. The body witness are those from stream enterer all the way up to anagami, who have experienced the eight levels as well as cessation but not yet destroyed the taints. And then the vision attainer and the faith liberated are deferred, by they defer, or their difference between them is really their interest in developing the path through wisdom or their interest in developing the path through the faculty of faith.

And then likewise for the Dhamma devotee and the faith devotee, the difference here is the Dhamma devotee and the faith devotee are stream enterers who, if they don't continue at the passing on of this life, will attain stream winning, so they will attain the fruit of stream entry or the fruit of sotapanna. Seven latent proclivities, or anusaya. So that's really the seven latent tendencies, and these are: the sensuous craving, kamaraga; resentment, or actually more resistance, and resentment, and that is patigha; so that's aversion; views; doubt; conceit; craving for becoming, or bhava raga; and ignorance. So these latent tendencies are latent within the experience of nama-rupa, sixth sense basis and contact, and when they're acted upon in feeling, they then give rise to the activation of these things like sensual craving, aversion, wrong view, inclination towards having doubt, the conceit, which is the I am or the craving for being. So sensuous greed, we understand to be sensual craving, craving for sensory experiences at the level of sensual experiences.

Patigha, which is really aversion or resistance, we understand to be the opposite: trying to push away an experience after it has been experienced. So having craving in the way of aversion towards a painful feeling, and then views, doubt, conceit, bhava raga and ignorance can arise in any of these three levels of feeling, which are either the painful feeling, or the pleasurable feeling, the painful feeling or the neutral feeling. The views here are essentially related to the identification with the body as self, but the identification with the body as self is related to annihilationism, and the identification of a self that is eternal and will continue on after the decay and destruction of the body. The doubt here is doubt in one's practice, doubt in what is right or wrong.

Doubt in what is wholesome and unwholesome, and so on. The conceit is the I am, that sense of I am better than so and so, or I am worse than so and so, or I am equal to so and so. That is the pride, the pride for whatever one identifies with, whether it's one's birth, whether it's one's status in life, whether it's one's occupation, education, gender, whatever it might be. It's that deep-rooted identification with any of the five aggregates and the experience from those five aggregates.

Then the craving for becoming, or bhava raga, is the craving for existence and also the craving for non-existence that is implied in here. So that means the craving for the rupa jhanas or the craving for the formless realms, a craving for continuing to exist, and this is rooted in that conceit that there is this I am and this identification with that self. And then that ignorance is the not understanding and seeing of the four noble truths, so not able to have the mindfulness at the level of feeling to see also the three characteristics. When there is no awareness of the three characteristics in any experience, the mind is liable to enter into craving and further clinging and being and becoming.

If the mind doesn't see that the experience is impermanent and sees it as permanent, or that the experience is intrinsically dukkha, because it is liable to change, and instead sees it as a source of satisfaction, and instead of seeing it as not-self because of the impermanent nature and the inherent dukkha in there, and takes it to be self, that is ignorance, and that gives rise to further experiences of the links of dependent origination that cause further dukkha. Seven fetters, that is the compliance, then resentment, and the same as the latent anusayas. The way I would explain this is more in the understanding that the some samyojana, some samyojana that are mentioned here, are really just a concretization of the anusayas.

So they will give rise to the fetters that we understand in the way of the ten fetters. Here it's talking about seven fetters, but we look at all ten fetters, they are given rise to because of continually activating these different latent tendencies and activating or acting from the defilements of the mind, the upakilesas, and the roots, the unwholesome roots. So these fetters are sort of like chains, so they bind the mind to existence. They might bind the mind to samsara. And they arise through the process of the anusayas, through the process of the proclivities or tendencies.

So once the tendencies are continuing to activate, they all give rise to a certain kind of bhava. And from that bhava is that sort of existence in either a sensual realm, a form realm, or a formless realm. And from that bhava is an identity, or a process of habitual tendencies which are acted upon automatically in mind, speech or body, through mental actions, verbal actions or physical actions, which happens at the level of jati. That jati of action then continues to feed back energy towards the asavas, towards the roots, in the formations, towards the defilements of the consciousnesses that arise, towards the latent tendencies that are there in the nama-rupa and are activated at contact, feeling and perception. So these fetters essentially continue to become stronger and stronger every time there is a birth of action that is rooted in craving, rooted in conceit, bhava and ignorance. Seven rules for the pacification and settlement of disputed questions that have been raised: proceedings face-to-face, recollection, mental derangement, confession, majority verdict, habitual bad character, hovering over with grass.

So this is talking about when some kind of argument arises or some kind of questions are raised, how would one respond? There would be some kind of process of meeting face to face. In this case it could also be just Zoom meetings, in today's modern reality. Recollection, or remembering of something that happened in relation to what is being discussed, and then solving that process in that way. Mental derangement really is somebody who is not fully capable, let's say, or fully able to assess the situation accurately, and they are filled with craving, filled with ignorance and delusion. Confession here is somebody who wants to confess something that they did to somebody else, as a way of essentially committing to retaking the precepts, or committing to not doing that wrong action again. Majority verdict is the process of voting. Habitual bad character: somebody can resolve this through continually acting from that bhava of a bad character, from that power of automatic, automated tendencies, and covering over with grass, so essentially not dealing with it at all, and just covering it over, ignoring it, or just using excuses around it.

These are the sets of seven things which were perfectly proclaimed by the Blessed One, so we should all recite them together for the benefit, welfare and happiness of devas and humans. Questions, comments. Thank you, Delson, for your talk. Earlier on you said that there were four samudayas, four types of causes. What are those four? I never heard that. So it's similar to the four nutriments you have: contact. You have... actually, let me bring up that sutta if I can find it, so I can just read it to you.

So this is from, let's make sure I got it correct, this is from the Samyutta Nikaya 47.42, and it says, for example, what is the origination of the body? With the origination of nutriment there is the origination of the body. With the cessation of nutriment there is the passing away of the body. So essentially the body being fed by nutriment, fed by food, that is what continues to give energy to the body. With the origination of contact there is the origination of feeling. With the cessation of contact there is the passing away of feeling. So feeling being dependent upon contact, so that is the second origin. With the origination of name and form there is the origination of mind. With the cessation of name and form there is the passing away of mind. So I think this is translated from mind here is translated from chitta, but that can be synonymous with vinnana or consciousness. There's that interdependency between name and form, or mentality-materiality, and consciousness. The consciousness gives rise to mentality-materiality, the factors of mentality-materiality which then give rise to further consciousness.

And then the fourth is with the origination of attention, there is the origination of phenomena; with the cessation of attention, there is the passing away of phenomena. So that basically means that whatever you put your energy towards in the way of your attention, that will continue to grow. So if your attention is to the hindrances, then that's going to continue to grow, the hindrances. If your attention is to loving-kindness, you continue to meditate on loving-kindness, then your loving-kindness will continue to grow. So that's how attention works. Whatever you put your attention to, that will continue to grow, that phenomenon. Thank you.

Hi Delson, can you hear me? Hi, I'm just wondering, what's the purpose of understanding the seven stations of consciousness? Is it something to do with rebirth into these different states, the Brahmakayika or Abhassara? Can you elaborate a little bit more? Yeah, so you could see it on that level of macro rebirth, saying that the consciousnesses will establish into that nama-rupa, or nama of that realm. That's the stations of consciousness, meaning station being the nama-rupa or the nama of that being. So at the level of macro rebirth, that can happen when, in the prior death, there are certain formations that arise due to certain practices. So if somebody is inclined towards practicing the first jhana or the second jhana and so on, it will automatically incline to those factors of the jhana and give rise to a consciousness that then establishes itself into, let's say, the Brahma realms or the Abhassara realms and so on. But the other understanding is on the micro level, which is to say that your consciousness gets established

Whenever you are in the first jhana, in the factors of the first jhana and so on, or the second jhana, the third jhana, the fourth jhana, or the formless jhanas. Can you tell us a little bit more about jhanagami? It's mentioned a few times in some of the suttas, but not very detailed. Yeah, so this is going to be, well, depends on how I explain it, but it could be a fairly long explanation. Let's see. So first and foremost, what you have to understand is

Let's say there is a worldling, right? Somebody who hasn't entered the stream, somebody who hasn't entered the path, so somebody who is not a stream-enterer, but they practice the jhanas. They practice the first four jhanas, or they practice the ayatanas. If they continually persist in practicing those jhanas, depending upon their inclination to which jhana that they're practicing and which jhana they have, let's say, mastered to a certain extent, it is possible that when they die, their mind will automatically incline towards those jhanas. Because of that, the formations that arise, dependent upon the mind inclined to the jhana, will have a consciousness that gives rise to a particular realm associated with either one of those jhanas or with the formless realms. But after they are, well, their lifespan is over, whatever thought then arises, they are liable to then take rebirth in a lower existence. It could be a human realm, or it could be in a realm lower than the human existence, or it could be, generally, it will be a human realm because of the certain inclinations.

But the understanding is it will be lower than the realm that they took existence in, took rebirth in. But let's say you have a stream-enterer, or a sakadagami, but in this case a stream-enterer, a sotapanna, who has persistently continued to practice jhanas, persistently continued to practice the ayatanas, or whatever jhana that they have perfected or mastered or have a proclivity towards, automatically their mind inclines towards that jhana at death, and the formations that arise give rise to a new existence. So that new consciousness becomes established in the nama-rupa, or the nama, of the new existence. Now that doesn't mean that they become an anagami, which means that they go into the Pure Abodes. They will go to the realms that are associated with whatever jhana that their mind was in prior to having passed on. But here's the understanding: in the case of the worldling, they had not yet destroyed their first three fetters, that is to say, they have not destroyed their belief in the personality

They have not destroyed the doubt, and they haven't destroyed the attachment to rites and rituals, thinking that these rites and rituals will take them to nibbana. Because of that, they still have those fetters that are liable to bring them back to a lower realm, possibly even to the hell realms. But what happens when you're in jhana, when you are in jhana or any of the ayatanas, all five hindrances are not no longer present, which also includes sensual craving and ill will. Since there is no sensual craving and there is no ill will present, and if a sotapanna has the inclination of going into jhana when they pass on, at that point they have destroyed the first three fetters already, but they have also, there's no longer present in that mind any kind of sensual craving or any kind of aversion. So in that sense they are an anagami when they pass on, and they go to that jhana realm, the realm associated with that jhana. After they pass on, they are not liable to return back to the sensual realms or any realm. Does it make sense?

Your explanation makes sense, much better than reading the sutta, which I can't get around. Delson, can we say, even sotapanna is a jhanagami, or not sotapanna, maybe anagami can also be a jhanagami, right? An anagami can be a jhanagami. But if they have already attained anagami in the realm of the sensual, well, essentially the human realm, there are five ways that they can attain arahatship, essentially, or final nibbana. So there are different types of ways of understanding how they attain parinibbana. They can attain nibbana just before they pass on again. So this is what the Buddha talks about. He talks about the nibbana at the interval, which is essentially before the process of rebirth is complete. There is no fuel for that consciousness to continue on. At the dissolution of the five aggregates they will pass on as arahants, so to speak. They won't pass on to any new realm.

Then there is the second understanding, where there is still some level of conceit still there as they pass on, but as soon as the mind or the consciousness that's newly formed establishes into a Pure Abode, being upon the descent of that consciousness, they will be arahants and they will pass on into parinibbana. The third is that they will still do the same thing, but they will be arahants and there will still be some few left of the five aggregates, in which case they still need to continue on until they pass on into parinibbana. The fourth is with exertion, so they still require further effort. You continue to become an arahant, you attain arahatship. And the fifth is they have to go through the process of the Pure Abodes, or they take a birth in one of the five Pure Abodes, and then from there through effort all the way up to the Akanittha realm, they attain arahatship and attain final parinibbana in about. So it's basically, the difference is how they, what happens at the time of death, right?

What happens at the time of death, meaning what fuel is still remaining? If there's no fuel remaining, then they're liable to just experience nibbana before any rebirth takes place, and so on and so forth. So it's dependent upon how much fuel is left for them to have, for them to have to continue the practice until they attain arahatship. In continuation of fear, same person, if that, yes, anagami or anyone taking the rebirth into the a particular realm is nothing but a conditioned, like a beginner, all he's also facing the conditions

Because he wanted to go to a particular realm, is it not a condition? Condition state, can you please? So for the anagami they still have the five higher fetters, which means they're still craving for some kind of existence. There's still some kind of bhavatanha, not there, so that fuels the motive for another rebirth. But he's going to a particular, means he means he, he's, he's also in some conditional state. Yes, the anagami is still in some kind of conditional state, except for, yeah, thank you. Go ahead. Like a beginner, we are also in some conditions.

Yeah, yeah. In essence, the arahant has no more fuel for rebirth, they've destroyed all the fetters. Yes, but for the anagami, if in the first condition or in the first case they attain nibbana prior to passing on, prior to any kind of rebirth taking place, then they will be extinguished right there and then, there will be final parinibbana right there and then. But if they still have some kind of fuel in the form of conceit, in the form of identification, in the form of craving for existence, craving for the formless realms, and of course ignorance, if they have not fully understood the four noble truths completely, then they're liable to have rebirth one more time in a Pure Abode, for example.

So there's still some fuel in the form of that conceit, there's still some fuel in the form of that craving for existence. So depending upon the other four categories of anagamis, whether they become arahants upon landing, as it's translated, as upon establishing into the new nama-rupa in the Pure Abode, they will have little fuel and get extinguished right there. They will have still some fuel but enough to be able to understand and let go completely and attain arahatship, or they will continue on with some exertion to attain arahatship, and finally they'll have to go through a longer process. So it's dependent upon how much craving for existence still present and how much identification with the process is still present. Thank you.

Listen, just for my reference, in which sutta mentioned these five types? Let me, let me find out, let me see if I can find it right now. They're mentioned in a few suttas, but I can find one particular one. Let's see if I can. So the one that I have here is called the Puri sagati sutta, that's Anguttara Nikaya 7.55, and within that sutta it talks about the five types of rebirth possible, or different states of nibbana possible for the anagami. Thank you, I will, I'll check it out. Welcome.

Hi Delson. Hello. I have a couple of questions regarding the neither perception or non-perception realm. First of all, it's curious that it's not included in the seven stations of consciousness, although you did briefly mention it. So my question there is, is there a disadvantage to being in that realm or practicing neither perception or non-perception because there's no actual consciousness in terms of being able to hear the Dhamma or being able to practice the Dhamma as such? I know Bhante Vimalaramsi also mentioned that maybe there's a body, but they don't actually... they're not like moving around or something like that. I don't remember it exactly. So even when the Buddha was trying to search for his teachers, they had passed on to the formless realms and he couldn't reach them.

so i i have this yeah go ahead yeah i kind of finished it thank you okay um yeah essentially in neither perception or non-perception uh you definitely don't want to take rebirth in a formless realm unless you have entered the stream so in other words uh if you are a sort upana or a sakadagami and your mind is inclined towards any of the foremost realms you are essentially going to become let's say a janagami so even if you do enter neither perception and non-perception after the formations arise they won't arise with any craving present in them they won't arise with any kind of ill will in them but if there's a mindset which does not

which has not entered the stream a mindset which is just of a worldling as they say then whatever intentions arise after neither perception and non-perception will then give rise to new consciousness that's liable for rebirth in the lower realm and it could be a lower realm only because there's nothing higher than neither perception perception so that would be the disadvantage for somebody who is just starting out on the path and has an attachment to that particular formless realm or that particular formless state but unless they have attained nibbana for the first time and experienced stream entry and understood the dharma understood the penerogination it would not make sense for them to have that kind of

Thank you. You had another question, or you had a couple of questions? So yeah, I mean, you answered it. Basically, there's no disadvantage if one has practiced the Dhamma and entered the stream. So that was kind of the question I had, because I'm practicing the homeless, and I was like, okay, should I do that? Yeah, this one I have a funny question. Yes, you have a... what question? Funny question. A funny question. Great, great. So for example, somebody entered into a stream and he's inclined towards formless realms. So there is a disadvantage, I see, that if he goes to some higher realms like Brahma, Riyana, he will last for a long time.

I mean, a very, very long time. But if he is inclined towards non-form... I mean, sorry, the first thing I was mentioning about the formless realms, but if he is inclined towards lower jhanas, he can exit very quickly, right? Yeah, because he has only seven more lives. So in this case, what should we have done? I mean, that is a funny question.

Yeah, and the response I will give to that is: if one has entered the stream and is a sotapanna, go towards attaining sakadagami or anagami and finally arahatship. That should really be the effort taken. Just because we have this understanding of jhanagami doesn't mean that one should just rest and not continue to have any persistent effort. It's more important to continue to develop wisdom, to develop the different faculties, so that you can make an effort towards arahatship. But yeah, I mean, it's sensible. It makes logical sense that if you want to stay here for less time than you would in the formless realms, you would want to then just attain the first jhana, and then from there go to the Brahma realms, because it's not that long compared to the other realms higher than it.

But aside from that, my suggestion would be to always strive for arahatship. Thank you. Thank you, Melissa. I mean to say, because of the fuel available, if it is more, he would have tried here itself. If he's so fast, he would be able to do it without going to other realms. So since the fuel is more here, that's why he is not able to do it here, and in other realms the same trend will continue, I feel. I think you might have cut off a little bit for my earphones. Can you repeat the whole thing that you're saying, so I get a better context of what the question is? Yes.

Because more fuel is there, he is not able to achieve it in the human life itself after going to other realms. How can he go fast? The same trend continues, I think, because of the fuel. I would say that the human existence is the best existence to cultivate and practise and perfect the Dhamma. The reason is because you have all of the faculties present, you have all of the aggregates present, you have, of course, being in an age of a Buddha, which is important, and you have enough of the ability to discern between painful, pleasurable and neutral. Whereas in the Brahma realms or the deva realms, in the Brahma realms especially, in the Avasa realms and the Subakina realms, they're so absorbed and so immersed

in the bliss. They're basically blissed out, so that they don't want to do anything else but just continue to meditate. They don't want to talk to anybody, they don't want to interact with anyone. They're just very happy to be in that blissed-out state, and you're not going to do anything because of that blissed-out state. Whereas in the human realm you have the opportunity to learn different things that can be understood from the context of the Dhamma. You have the ability to understand painful feelings, and therefore understand what are the processes related to those painful feelings, and that can cause the arising of suffering and craving and so on. So the human realm is really like the best. It's the Goldilocks

section of the 31 planes of existence. You have enough of pain to understand it, and you have enough of pleasure in the way of pleasant feeling and pleasant mental feeling to be able to experience jhana and so on, and ultimately have the faculties available to experience arahatship. So that would be my suggestion: try to finish everything within the human realm and try to attain arahatship in the human realm. Thank you very much. I'll hang back. Go ahead. No, I already asked something, so I'll wait.

Okay, I had just a little comment. I'm sure this is wrong view, but it seems a little sad to become an arahant just as, like, in the interval, or something, that you can't enjoy the fruit of arahatship and the wisdom that comes with it. Just some reflection that popped up. Yeah, well, at that point the arahant won't even care, because they've just gone beyond the concept of enjoyment. But you know, that's a good point. I get your point.

Along those lines, I was going to say it would be kind of nice to say, aha, I've made it to stream entry now, I could just kind of chill, you know, let's keep practising, focus on the jhanas, and you know it'll all take care of itself afterwards, you know, no more striving and effort. But remember, the jhanagami is only so far as somebody who makes a persistent effort of continuing to practise samadhi, continuing to practise the jhanas. So if you stop at a certain point and those inclinations and those formations don't have the ability to arise, then you won't really be a jhanagami at that point, because at that point of passing on, when the mind naturally and automatically inclines, it's the formations that arise, and they arise continually through that consistent practice. Yeah. Otherwise, the sotapanna will take rebirth maybe up to seven lifetimes, or they can take rebirth up to three lifetimes, and so on. Right? So there is that motivation to continue

practising samadhi, and in that process if you get into sakadagami, great, and in that process if you get to anagami, great, and then in that process if you get to arahatship, wonderful. So there's just no escape from having to practise. Yes, I had a question about the text. The seven persons worthy of offerings, it was like the both-ways liberated, wisdom liberated, body witness... yeah. Then further on down was like Dhamma devotee, faith devotee. I know you talked about them in terms of

I guess people who were in the arupajhanas, or just the arupajhanas, or both. And this kind of reminded me, though not exactly, but I think in Majjhima Nikaya 142 they talk about people who are worthy of offerings, and they just talk about the seven people, right? So when I saw this I thought, the faith devotee is a person who's on the path, like the sotapanna path, just by faith. A Dhamma devotee is on the sotapanna path by knowledge. The faith-liberated, you know, fruition of sotapanna by faith, vision attainer, fruit, you know. So just, I guess in there, in 142, they talk about path and fruition, path and fruition on each level, and to arahats.

But here you talked about it in terms of jhana. I don't know if there's a way to reconcile them, or if this is really talking about the seven persons worthy of offerings in a whole different way. No, I would say that they are the same. If you're mentioning the same categories of people, like the faith follower, the Dhamma follower, and so on, it's the same.

But I'm trying to give the context of the ones who do attain arahatship who destroy the tints so it like i said the ones who uh have who are liberated both ways essentially means those who've gone through the first four jhanas and the ayatanas and then experienced the destruction of the tints uh the the one liberated by wisdom is one who's just gone through the first four jhanas and then from there obtained arahatship the other three uh below that uh i think the other three or four below that uh that is the body witness uh which is essentially the the body here is not the the rupa as i said the kaya is referring to the mind the mentality that touches each of the jhanas and even cessation but they haven't yet been liberated in the sense they haven't been uh they haven't destroyed the taints they haven't attained arahatship so through that context these are the people who have attained jhanas or the different jhanas and ayatanas

Then you have the one below that, which is the vision attainer. So this is someone, as you said, the one who has attained stream entry, the fruit of stream entry, and is now working towards attaining the next levels, and so on. So you can see it in the context of their attainments in terms of their jhana practice, or where they are in their attainments, or you can see it in the context of path and fruition. But I wanted to provide this context so somebody would be able to understand what it means to be liberated by both ways, and what it really means by body witness. Because some people are confused by that. Like, what does that mean? Does that mean you're experiencing the body, or you're witnessing the elements of the body, and so on? But it's a different context. So there's no conflict there. It's just different angles of looking at the same thing. Okay, and just to confirm, and use the body witness

It's not the physical body. It's our idea of the body in our own minds. Well, it's more like the mind itself, actually. The mental body, you could say. So that's the thing about the translations. When you talk about rupa in Pali, you're talking about the physical body, the four great elements that make up the skeleton and the muscles and everything of the body. When you talk about kaya, kaya can mean different kinds of things, but it's essentially the mind. It's the mental body, or the mind itself, but having touched with the mind, you could say. So the mind, having gone through, having seen the jhanas, having experienced the jhanas, having experienced the ayatanas, having experienced cessation, but not yet attained, not yet destroyed the fetters and the taints, so the body here doesn't mean the physical body or the idea of a mental body. It's just the mind. The mind, having to simplify it, just look at it from the context of the mind touching the factors of the different jhanas and eyes.

Nice. Okay, the wisdom liberated is what again? Sorry, these are all new to me. I wasn't liberated. It's only the first four channels, right? That's right, that's right. Okay, thank you, Delson. Yes, I've got to take off, but it's good to finally see you live. I really enjoyed your talk. I hope to see you next time. Thank you. You as well, take care. Does anybody have any last questions? We'll wait for 30 more seconds. May suffering ones be suffering free and the fear struck fearlessly.

May the grieving shadow grieve and may all beings find relief. May all beings share this merit that we have thus acquired for the acquisitions of all kinds of happiness. May beings inhabiting space and earth, devas and Nagas of mighty power share this merit of ours. May they long protect the Buddha's dispensation. Sadhu, sadhu, sadhu. Thank you, Delson. Thank you, Kuhn. Thank you, Delson.