April 24 2021 - MN 4 - Fear & Dread - Letting Go of Hindrances Leads to the Natural Freedom of Mind

I'd like to hand over to you, please. Thank you, Koon. Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, everyone. I hope you're doing well. Today I'm going to be reading Majjhima Nikaya number four, and this is a translation by Bhikkhu Bodhi. It is called Bhayabherava Sutta, Fear and Dread. That's if I heard, on one occasion the Blessed One was living at Savatthi in Jeta's Grove, Anathapindika's Park. Then the brahmin Janusoni went to the Blessed One and exchanged greetings with him. When this courteous and amiable talk was finished, he sat down at one side and said: Master Gotama, when clansmen have gone forth from home life into homelessness out of faith in Master Gotama, do they have Master Gotama for their leader, their helper and their guide? And do these people follow the example of Master Gotama?

Right out of the gate, we can notice that this brahmin, Janusoni, who according to the commentary seems like it's just a title for him, goes to the Blessed One and exchanges greetings with him and calls him Master Gotama. That is still a sign of respect, but not the reverence one would have if one understood who one was speaking to, in reference to the Tathagata, in reference to the Buddha. So he considered Gotama, in this case the Blessed One, to be just another brahmin teacher who taught around that time as a shramana, in Sanskrit, or samana in Pali. That's why during the Buddha's time there were five or six different schools of wanderers, which included the people, or the bhikkhus and bhikkhunis, who followed the Buddha's teachings. There were others. So he considered him to be just another one of those wandering monks or wandering teachers or sages who taught and had gone from the home life into homelessness.

There are thoughts of going into the countryside, going into the forest for hiking and for seclusion and for rest and solitude. Here both the brahmin Janusoni and the Blessed One, the Buddha, are talking about how these places can be hard to endure, and seclusion would be hard to practise, and that it would be hard, or difficult, to enjoy solitude. And the reason being is because of a mind that is not collected, as the Buddha will talk about. So he's going to go through different hindrances and different places like the forest and so on. But one can also contemplate and think about this in the modern world, especially now. During the time of the pandemic, since the beginning of 2020 onwards, different countries and different places in the world have experienced different circumstances of curfews and lockdowns and such.

of people are unable to follow some kind of a routine, unable to follow a sense of quote-unquote normalcy in their lives. And of course we see in the media talking about mental health and so on, and this is one reason it's interesting, because on the flip side of that, someone who is a meditator, someone who is acquainted with the Dhamma, someone who is acquainted with this practice, would probably find this a solace, because it's a great time. It's a lot of time to spend in deep meditation and reflection, deep study of the suttas and watching Dhamma talks and so on and so forth. So it's a matter of perspective.

And so the jungle thicket, the forest, could just be another way of understanding it, in modern terms, of being in solitude, solitude during a lockdown. But if a mind is not collected, it can be aggravating and cause a lot of restlessness and other hindrances, as the Buddha is going to discuss. Before my enlightenment, while I was still only an unenlightened Bodhisatta, I too considered thus: remote jungle thicket resting places in the forest are hard to endure; the jungles must rob a bhikkhu of his mind if he has no collectedness. I considered thus: whenever recluses or brahmins unpurified in bodily conduct resort to remote jungle thicket resting places in the forest, then, owing to the defect of their unpurified bodily conduct, these good recluses and brahmins evoke unwholesome fear and dread. Not resorting to remote jungle thicket resting places in the forest unpurified in bodily conduct, I am purified in bodily conduct. I resort to remote jungle thicket resting places in the forest as one of the noble ones with bodily conduct purified. Seeing in myself this purity of bodily conduct, I found great solace in dwelling in the forest. So here the Buddha is

talking about conduct in terms of following precepts. And it's interesting, he says, I resort to remote jungle thicket resting places in the forest as one of the noble ones with bodily conduct purified. Up until his enlightenment there were no noble ones within the context of Dhamma, so he's obviously referring to himself as a bodhisattva, but also previous enlightened beings and so on, Buddhas and other arahants before his own enlightenment. Of course, the consideration is, how would he know? So it's quite possible, instead, that he's thinking about, or he's considering for himself, that a noble one first and foremost is somebody who follows the precepts, somebody who has good bodily conduct, and so that is starting to become like a noble one in the sense that's in line with, at the very least, stream entry. So then he says: I consider thus, whatever recluses or brahmins unpurified in verbal conduct, unpurified in mental conduct, unpurified in livelihood, resort to remote jungle thicket resting places in the forest, they evoke unwholesome fear and dread. But I am purified

Mind, in mental conduct purified, in verbal conduct purified, in livelihood, and I resort to remote jungle thicket resting places in the forest as one of the noble ones with verbal conduct, mental conduct and livelihood purified. Seeing in myself this purity of livelihood, I found great solace in dwelling in the forest. So here the Buddha again refers to conduct. He refers to livelihood. He refers to essentially maintaining the precepts, because when one does not maintain the precepts, there are potentials in the mind or hindrances to arise in the form of fear or aversion, in the form of dread or aversion, in the form of craving and lust, and so on, as we'll see as he talks about in this next section. And so really what he's referring to here is

conduct in the sense of right intention, which is mental conduct, right speech, which is verbal conduct, and right action, which is physical conduct, and then of course right livelihood. So then he says I considered thus. So it's abbreviated here, but he's talking about recluses or brahmins who are covetous and full of lust. They evoke fear and dread when they go into the forest, and it's because of their lust, which is the craving for different experiences or craving through different experiences, and wanting more of that. But the Bodhisatta here says that I am uncovetous, I am not full of lust, and therefore he finds solace in the forest. Then there are those who have a mind of ill will and intention of hate.

So their intention isn't right. They have wrong intention. So first and foremost, they're covetous and full of lust, which means that they don't have nekkhamma. They don't have the renunciation, which is the non-identification with sensual or sensory and mental experiences. And of course, then they have ill will and intentions of hate, which is the opposite of having non-ill will, non-cruelty. But I have a mind of loving kindness. So here loving kindness is the diametrical opposite, or the diametrical antidote, for ill will and for a mind filled with hate. So he has developed loving kindness, and instead of those who have developed ill will and hate and find fear and dread in the forest, he has developed loving kindness and found solace in the forest. So there are those who are overcome by sloth and torpor, another hindrance, but he is without sloth and torpor because his mind is energized. He has attention and he has enthusiasm, and therefore, rather than those who are overcome by that which can cause delusions in the mind. If at any time you have noticed when you are in sloth and torpor, the mind gets dreamy and hazy and sleepy

and sometimes these dreams come in and out, and they almost seem real. So if you go into the forest at night and you meditate and you have sloth and torpor, it's quite possible that you could start to hallucinate, not only within your meditation but wherever you're going. And that reminds me of a time when I had a chance to go to the Himalayas. This was when I was on a school field trip to the Himalayas when I was 14.

I had a chance to go, and we were going to set up camp near the river. And we had come very late into the night, and a lot of people were scared, including myself, because we had to cross through the forest into this encampment. And we were scared of animals and all kinds of things. And it was very interesting, because while we were walking I saw to my right something that actually, in the beginning, shocked me, and it was a wanderer who was meditating. And a thought occurred to me that this person here, in the middle of the forest, in whatever time of the night it is, is meditating and at peace, and that immediately sort of allayed any fear and dread in myself. So it was an interesting experience to have.

So it can happen that when you are in the thick of night in the forest and you have certain thoughts that dominate, of fear, of aversion, of lust and craving, it can cause you to see things that are not there, cause you to project into things that are not there. So this is a good lesson to understand, in terms of seeing that this can happen anywhere if the mind is filled with hindrances. If the mind is filled with ill will, with aversion and fear, that can be projected onto any situation that is arising, and you might misinterpret the situation. More often than not you probably will misinterpret the situation, and the expressions on people's faces, the tone of their voices, and so on and so forth, and it can cause further aggravation, pain and suffering. But in relation to sloth and torpor, there was another story similar to it. A few days later that same wanderer decided to rest on one of the hammocks near the encampment by the river.

Somebody was very tired and going off to sleep, and then they saw this person, and they got so frightened because they were still in that sleepiness. So they thought it was some kind of animal or something. But then later in the morning, that same wanderer came into the encampment to apologize that this person got scared, and explained to them that he was just taking a nap. So sloth and torpor can do those kinds of things, can make you misperceive situations.

It's like that analogy of seeing the rope in the darkness and mistaking it for a snake. When you actually see it for what it is, all that fear and dread goes away. In the same way, when you recognize hindrances for what they are, they immediately stop in that recognition, and then you let them go by taking your attention away from them and then coming back to the present through the perception of mind and body and relaxing it. With restlessness and unpeacefulness in mind, and they have fear and dread, of course, restlessness and mental energy can cause this if there is improper attention given to it, which means if one's mind fixates over it, it can cause anxiety, it can cause fear and dread. But if a mind is tranquil, if one recognizes that there is restlessness there and lets go of that restlessness and relaxes the mind, the mind is tranquil and it won't bring up anxiety.

It won't bring up fear and dread. And then he says, others may be uncertain and doubting. So this is the hindrance of doubt. And this doubt can be in terms of one's own practice, in terms of one's own abilities and capacities and so on. And so if there's doubt in one's own ability to be able to practice the six R's correctly, one's own ability to practice loving-kindness meditation correctly, or whatever it might be, that can further create restlessness, that can further create anxiety, that can further create a lot of disturbances in the mind. But for one, as the Buddha says, who has gone beyond doubt, there's only tranquility. And that is understood by using the four right efforts, by using the six R's to recognize that and let that go. Others are given to self-praise and disparagement of others. I am not given to self-praise and disparagement of others. So this is the conceit that arises, where the mind identifies, whenever someone celebrates one's good qualities, and identifies with it, and also celebrates when the is such that one seems higher than the other and the other is disparaged.

This is a symptom of conceit, and this is a manifestation of that taint of being, of identifying with a concept of sense of self, which causes one to have pride and arrogance and so on. But here the Buddha says the Bodhisattva at that time says, I am not given to self-praise and disparagement of others, therefore I find solace in the forest. But if there's somebody who is conceited and who has all of this self-praise and so on, it can cause restlessness to arise again. It can cause craving for existence and craving for non-existence. It can cause craving for different states of mind, and that can give rise again to anxiety, fear and dread. And of course it says, others are subject to alarm and terror; I am free from trepidation. So this is understood to be that if somebody's mind is essentially outward bound and is not collected,

at the slightest noise in the forest the mind can become restless, and they can start to proliferate. You know, what was that noise? Or is there someone there? Was it an animal or what is it? So that's the mind that is not collected. That's a mind that is basically disarrayed and dispersed in different directions and not unified. But in this case, when the mind is collected, you are free from engaging with the noise outside. So whether that's in the forest or whether that's you meditating in your room, or whatever it might be, if you hear a car outside or if you hear an alarm or whatever it might be, your mind is unified in such a way that even if it hears that noise, it doesn't get shaken, and just understands it and continues on with the practice. Others would be desirous of gain, honor and renown. So this is again having that lust for satisfying that concept of self, satisfying the ego. And here he says, I have few wishes. So such wishes are not present in the mind that is collected.

But because of these different wishes, this causes craving, this causes more energy in the mind, and it is prone to fear and dread. But if you have a mind that has few wishes, if you have a mind that is content, it will be tranquil and it will be naturally collected because of that. Others are lazy and wanting in energy. So in this case, this refers back to sloth and torpor. They don't really make the effort to come out of that laziness. One way to come out of sloth and torpor is to recognize it and then balance it, as we know it, by using more energy, using more attention, using more joyful interest, enthusiasm

and investigation, in so far as noticing what's happening. As soon as you do that, you are placing more attention, and that starts to unify the mind further, causing the mind to become more collected and balanced in the end. So here the Bodhisattva says, I am energetic and not lazy, which means he is using the four right efforts in a way that causes the mind to continue to be collected. Others might be mindful, unmindful and not fully aware. I am established in mindfulness. So unmindful and not fully aware here, because the mind is not collected, it's not diligent, it's not paying attention to what is happening right before it, in the way of the sensory experiences, in the way of mental experiences, in the way of sensations, and what's happening in the body, in the way of mindsets and moods and so on. Instead the mind is so dispersed. It becomes very restless because of that and is unable to come back to a more collected state of awareness. In this case the mind is like a

prism. Or rather, the mind's attention is like the light that goes through that prism and creates the different kinds of colors. It's dispersed everywhere, it refracts, instead of being concentrated. In this case, concentrated doesn't mean absorbed, but just means that the attention doesn't go from one place to another and become dispersed in such a way as to cause more restlessness, and to cause further pain and suffering and fear and dread. Rather, the mind becomes collected because it is mindful in the moments as they arise and pass away, of what is happening in terms of the mind's responses to the outside world, the mind's responses to the internal happenings of the mind and body. Because of this, one can notice if there is fear and dread arising, and recognize it, let it go, and come back to a more balanced mindful state, rather than having the mind be dispersed, which causes the mind to then tend towards craving or tend towards aversion, which will cause further fear and dread. Other recluses would be unconcentrating and would strain minds. So this is again going back to: their minds are not too unified.

But he says, I am possessed of collectedness. And then he says, I consider thus: whatever recluses or brahmins, devoid of wisdom, drivelers, resort to remote jungle thicket resting places in the forest, then owing to the defect of their being devoid of wisdom and drivelers, these good recluses and brahmins evoke unwholesome fear and dread. But I do not resort to remote jungle thicket resting places in the forest devoid of wisdom, a driveler. I am possessed of wisdom. I resort to remote jungle thicket resting places in the forest as one of the nobles, once possessed of wisdom, seeing in myself this possession of wisdom, I found great solace in dwelling in the forest. So this wisdom here, usually we understand wisdom to be the understanding of dependent origination, but here it can be understood to be that the mind is getting some inclination or inkling of what is impermanent

and what is impermanent being the cause of suffering, or creating suffering, and that which is impermanent and creating suffering is not to be considered to be self. So the mind is starting to incline towards that, and then whatever is arising and passing away is therefore impermanent, and so causing suffering and subject to dissolution, and therefore should not be considered to be self. So this is the kind of inkling of wisdom that the Bodhisattva is probably developing, whereas other recluses are not seeing that there is some inclination towards that. I consider thus: there are the especially auspicious nights, the 15th and the 8th of the fortnight. Now, what if on such nights as these I were to dwell in such awe-inspiring, horrifying abodes as orchard shrines, woodland shrines and tree shrines? Perhaps I might encounter that fear and dread. And later on, that such, on such specially auspicious nights as the 14th, the 15th and the 8th of the fortnight, in such awe-inspiring, horrifying abodes as orchard shrines, woodland shrines and tree shrines

And while I dwelt there, a wild animal would come up to me, or a peacock would knock off a branch, or the wind would rustle the leaves. I thought, what now? If this is the fear and dread coming, I thought, why do I dwell always expecting fear and dread? What if I subdue that fear and dread while keeping the same posture that I am in when it comes upon me? This is very interesting. So the Buddha is talking about going to certain places that can naturally cause, for a mind that is disturbed or a mind that is uninclined towards meditation, to be horrified of these places. It can be places like cemeteries or charnel grounds, or places like that, where people have a natural inclination of fear towards them.

And that really arises because of stories about it and things like that, or somebody has had an experience and tells stories about it, and so on and so forth. But whatever is the case, it's the darkness, and being in such places and all of that, that can cause the anxiety and fear to arise. For example, here's some kind of tree branch snapping or something falling, or whatever it is, and then it starts to proliferate. That causes a lot more pain and suffering, rather than just noticing that and then allowing the mindfulness to recognize it, let go of any fear or anxiety arising from it, and come back to the present moment in whatever posture one is in. And one can see the arising fear, and then of course in recognizing the passing away of that fear and dread as well. 'While I walked, the fear and dread came upon me. I neither stood nor sat nor lay down till I had subdued that fear and dread.' So basically

he made sure that in every posture, whatever it was that fear that arose, he subdued it by recognizing it, letting it go, and seeing it for what it is: a delusion, really. Taking something that might not be the case outside and being amplified as something that is not the case, because of that fear and dread. And letting that fear and dread pass away through mindfulness, recognition, and using the right efforts of letting go, and coming to a more balanced and unified mind. 'While I stood, the fear and dread came upon me. I neither walked nor sat nor lay down till I had subdued that fear and dread. While I sat, the fear and dread came upon me.'

I neither walked nor stood nor laid down till I had subdued that fear and dread. While I lay down, the fear and dread came upon me. I neither walked nor stood nor sat down till I had subdued that fear and dread. There are Brahmins, some recluses and Brahmins, who perceive day when it is night and night when it is day.

Is an abiding in delusion, but I perceive night when it is night and day when it is day. So this is an interesting statement, because there's a statement like this in the Bhagavad-Gita. In that it says that the sage perceives day while all others perceive night, and perceives night while all others perceive day. And it's meant to be understood as withdrawing the senses and then absorbing the mind in seeing that the senses are temporary, in seeing that the senses are illusory, are illusions. So it's an interesting statement. But in this case here, the Buddha is talking about, if one is to do that and withdraw the senses away, one is only suppressing the hindrances. One is only pushing the mind down, and it causes further delusion. But here you see it for what it is. You see reality for what it is. You see that there is this experience of the senses arising, whether it's through the eye faculty, through the ear faculty, the nose, the tongue, the skin, or through the mind itself.

And you just see it as it is, without trying to suppress it, without trying to project onto it and say that this is an illusion, and so on and so forth. That's not going to help you. You have to see it, acknowledge it, and understand it for what it is. That is seeing reality as it is, which is to say that you are seeing reality as it is, so you're using proper attention, attention rooted in reality, and not suppressing it. And so when you do, then you can recognize when the craving arises. But if you suppress the mind, it can cause the mind to have further craving. When that suppression is lifted, all those hindrances arise again because of that pressure of suppression. Rightly speaking, word to be said of anyone is: a being not subject to delusion has appeared in the world for the welfare and happiness of many, out of compassion for the world, for the good, welfare and happiness of gods and humans. It is of me indeed that rightly speaking this should be said.

Tireless energy was aroused in me, and unremitting mindfulness was established. My body was tranquil and untroubled, my mind concentrated or collected and unified. But if you look at this, he's talking about the factors of enlightenment, tireless energy and enthusiasm. So he started to use the four right efforts, started to use the process of the 6R's to bring the mind back to understanding what is happening in relation to the four foundations of mindfulness. So unremitting mindfulness was established, and through that there was tranquility, and so the mind was concentrated or collected and unified, and thus there arose the factors of the jhanas. As we'll see, from unwholesome states I entered upon and abided in the first jhana, which is accompanied by applied and sustained thought, with rapture and pleasure born of seclusion. So now, with these factors starting to come into play, the mind becomes more collected and does not disperse itself around whatever sensory experiences are happening. The rapture or the pleasure or the joy that arises, the piti and the sukha, are born from within, born from the state of the mind itself, rather than depending upon the sensory experiences.

With the stilling of applied and sustained thought, I entered upon and abided in the second jhana, which has self-confidence and singleness of mind. So that self-confidence is that the mind is basically no longer filled with any doubts. It's assured that it is in jhana. It's knowing that it is in jhana, it's aware that it is experiencing the factors of the jhana, and it is experiencing collectedness and singleness of mind. That collected, unified mind, unified attention, without applied and sustained thought. So now the initial application of thought, and the sustenance of that, which is to say the initial application of bringing up a wholesome state through an image, through verbalization, or whatever it might be, and then continuing to put one's attention there, drops away, and the mind just rests in the feeling of loving kindness that was brought on, for example, because of those verbalizations.

And so there is rapture and pleasure, or piti and sukha, that is the joy and ease and comfort born of collectedness. Now the mind becomes further collected. The mind becomes silent. There is that noble silence, because there is no more verbalization going on, because the mind has that self-confidence and is pretty much resting on this feeling. There is this continual attention being sent, in the sense of one's attention being directed towards that feeling, just by resting, not really absorbing, not pushing or pulling, and so on, just observing and watching. And that causes the arising of piti and sukha. Then, with the fading away as well of rapture, the fading away of the piti, the energetic joy, I abided in equanimity, mindful and fully aware. So now equanimity arises, which is a mind that's more balanced. There's a further quietude that's experienced in this third jhana, still feeling pleasure with the body. So there's still the sense of comfort, there's still some experience of sensory impact with the body. I entered upon and abided in the third jhana, on account of which noble ones announce, 'He has a pleasant abiding, who has equanimity and is mindful.'

with the abandoning of pleasure and pain and with the previous disappearance of joy and grief that is to say now the concepts of duality of pleasure and pain good and bad and so on and so forth are let go of completely and the mind is just very content in itself it feels very balanced and very calm and collected it doesn't have anything that it's looking towards whether it's the disappearance of the the uh pithy or the sukkah or any other arising of further concentrated or collectiveness or further equanimity it's just watching it's continually observing without disturbance without distraction i entered an upon and i entered upon and abided in the fort jana which has neither pain nor pleasure so now all there is is that purity of mindfulness that observation of the object due to equanimity so this equanimity this balanced mind further accentuates the collectiveness of mind collected mind was dust purified right unblemished bit of imperfection malleable wieldy steady and attained to imperturbability

I directed it to the knowledge of the recollection of past lives. But here the Buddha is going into the threefold knowledge. He's describing the threefold knowledge, with the base of the fourth jhana being there, so one's mind traverses through the first four jhanas, and from there develops psychic faculties, or develops them into threefold knowledge, and so on. And so he says, 'I directed it to the knowledge of the recollection of past lives. I recollected my manifold past lives: that is, one birth, two births, three births, four births, five births, ten births, twenty births, thirty births, forty births, fifty births, a hundred births, a thousand births, a hundred thousand births, many eons of world contraction, many eons of world expansion, many eons of world contraction and expansion.'

'There I was, so named, of such a clan, with such an appearance. Such was my nutriment, such my experience of pleasure and pain, such my life term. And passing away from there, I reappeared elsewhere. And there too, I was so named, of such a clan, with such an appearance. Such was my nutriment, such my experience of pleasure and pain, and such my life term. And passing away from there, I reappeared here.' Thus, with their aspects and particulars, I recollected my many, my manifold, past lives. So here the Buddha is going through the different lifetimes of experiences, and this is done through traversing those choices in reverse order, seeing how they were made, and then how the previous set of choices were made, and so on, until one recognizes and sees the different past lives. And what one is starting to see is the chain of dependent origination that arises through this process of the different lifetimes. 'This was the first true knowledge attained by me in the first watch of the night.'

But these worthy beings who were well-conducted in body, speech, and mind, not revilers of noble ones, right in their views, giving effect to right view in their actions, of the body after death have reappeared in a good destination, even in the heavenly world. So what he is seeing is kamma: certain inclinations of the mind give rise to certain actions and speech, which give rise to certain effects, and ultimately this compounds and strengthens certain formations in different beings, and that inclination is carried forward through craving, through inclining the mind towards whatever one is seeing, in the way of those stronger formations, which gives rise to rebirth in a different realm or a different sphere of existence, that is either wholesome or unwholesome, dependent and based upon those actions and choices, whether they were unwholesome or wholesome. Human, I saw beings passing away and reappearing, inferior and superior, fair and ugly, fortunate and unfortunate, and I understood how beings pass on according to their actions. This is the understanding of rebirth and karma within the context of dependent origination. This was the second true knowledge attained by me in the middle watch of the night.

And then seeing how that arises, through going back using yoniso manasikara, using attention rooted in reality, to trace back what is the cause of this suffering, and one sees that as craving. When one experiences and sees that as craving, the cessation of suffering is due to the cessation of craving, which means one lets go of craving and sees that there is no more further rebirth, and so on, and therefore no more further suffering. And so one experiences that by using the Eightfold Path. Then he goes further and sees the taints themselves, having this interconnection, this pendulous interconnection from the taints to the links of dependent origination. In this case, the taint of sensory craving arising because one continues to identify with the sensory experiences, and craves for it and clings towards it.

is in relation to clinging to that sense of self, clinging to that being, and acting from that. And of course ignorance is not seeing how to let go of this, not first and foremost seeing that there is suffering, seeing how this arose, and letting go of that, to come to the experience of nirodha, the cessation of suffering. When one doesn't see that, that further strengthens and further deepens the mind, but when one sees this and lets go of it, it leads to the destruction of the taints. When I knew and saw thus, my mind was liberated from the taint of sensual desire, from the taint of being, and from the taint of ignorance. When it was liberated, there came the knowledge: it is liberated. So first there is the seeing, there is the mind dropping the taints, so to speak, the taints being dropped. That's the liberation. That's the relief that is experienced.

When one breaks the fetters, but then finally and ultimately, when one dissolves the taints, when the taints are destroyed, then there is the knowledge of that. There came the knowledge that the mind is liberated. So it's the mind that is looking back and reflecting, reviews, and sees as it is, the knowledge of destruction. And so then he declares: I directly knew birth is destroyed. The birth cannot arise anymore because there are no supporting foundations for it existing in the mind anymore. The holy life has been lived. He had wandered around through the forest in different places and finally come to the conclusion of the four noble truths. What had to be done has been done. There is no more coming to any state of being, because there is no more craving. There is no more clinging; because there is no more clinging, there won't be any more inclination towards formations that can give rise to rebirth, linking consciousness that can give rise to a new state of being.

I see a pleasant abiding for myself here and now, which is to say that he finds a comfort in being able to go and meditate in the forest and experience the different kinds of samadhi. And I have compassion for future generations, which means he's leading by example, that others might take to his actions and do the same and follow in his footsteps. Indeed, it is because Master Gotama is an accomplished one, a fully enlightened one, that he has compassion for future generations. Magnificent, Master Gotama! Magnificent, Master Gotama! Master Gotama has made the Dhamma in many ways, as though he were turning upright what had been overthrown, revealing what was hidden, showing the way to one who was lost, or holding up a lamp in the dark for those with eyesight to see forms. I go to Master Gotama for refuge, and to the Dhamma, and to the Sangha of bhikkhus. From today, let Master Gotama remember me as a lay follower who has gone to him for refuge for life. Questions or comments?

Thank you, Delson, for your talk. I have a quick question. Three knowledges, is he like, or would someone be improving their meditation too? And the reason I'm asking is, someone goes to the first jhana, thinking and evaluation, then they move to the second jhana, and that falls away, there's silence. Then you move to the third jhana, and something else falls away.

So as someone goes through these knowledges, seeing things and past lives and all that, are they gaining new knowledges, or are they improving their meditation, or these all three knowledges on the same plane? Yeah, there is a further deepening of the understanding of karma and rebirth, the understanding of dependent origination. So the fourth jhana really is the foundation for what we consider, for example, to be the fifth, sixth, seventh, and eighth jhana. You can say it to be an extension of that. We call it arupa jhanas, we call it ayatanas, or whatever it may be, but it always starts from the experience of fourth jhana onwards. So it's just a foundation, and the mind inclines towards these knowledges by just watching. So it's a different kind of meditation process, but what arises from that, of course, as you see, is a further deepening of wisdom, which is the insight, the let's say real-time insight, and seeing of dependent origination through the process of rebirth, through the process of karma, and ultimately

coming back to the mind and seeing it in the mind itself and letting go of the taints related to those different links that we talked about. That's like another way to learn the lesson of dependent origination and letting go. Yes, yes, exactly. Thank you. You're welcome. Those who enter into the fourth jhana, they must be having these three or four knowledges if they want to gain them? Does it mean that everyone who has entered into the fourth jhana can gain those three or four knowledges, or must it be possible? It is possible for someone who has attained the fourth jhana, which means attained already some level of development and mastery over all of the genres.

So it's a matter of first having that, and then being able to incline the mind towards the threefold knowledge. It's a different kind of technique, let's say, because when we look at the Visuddhi Magga, it goes through each of the different jhanas, the form jhanas and the formless jhanas, and here the understanding is then there is cessation of perception and feeling. And then from there, one is seeing the links in the mind itself as they arise and pass away. So the effect of that is the same in terms of the effect of threefold knowledge. It's just two different pathways, let's say. So there's a possibility for someone who is inclined for that. But I would recommend that for someone who has gotten some level or some degree of mastery in the jhanas already.

Continuing to that question: So is it a different kind of meditation? And I don't see any place in the suttas like saying you have to do this, this, this to end colleges. Is it like intentionally made it a secret, or why? Yeah, I always wonder whenever I hear this one. It must be possible. Whoever is entering into jhana, they should be able to attain this. And there is no, no guidelines written in suttas stated by the Buddha. Yeah. What is your opinion?

So I'll tell you one thing. The first two knowledges can be attained by even a non-Dhamma practitioner, which is to say that you can go through understanding your past lives, even through absorption-based concentration, right? Because, let's say you use the example of the Yoga Sutras, there is a way to understand how to go through past lives, there's a way to understand how to see the different beings arising and passing away. But here the difference really is that the third part of that threefold knowledge is what distinguishes between what another practitioner might do and what one would do in this case, because the context is different. So even if you see dependent origination in the first and second, it's only deepened when you have the experience within the mind itself, here and now, in relation to seeing how the taints give rise to ignorance and so on and so forth, and then seeing the cessation of that. So that's really the distinguishing factor. That third-fold knowledge is very important to be able to completely

fulfill the journey of this whole process. Thank you. But in terms of technique, right, I know you're asking about technique. Yeah, it's not really discussed within the suttas as far as I have come across it, but there is indication of it in, for example, the Visuddhi Magga. It does talk about it. As I said, the Yoga Sutras talk about it and so on, but as one sees it, it has to be understood that it should not be done through absorption-based concentration essentially, because it is through seeing it through an open awareness, concentration or collectedness rather, that the threefold knowledge is able to be perceived. Otherwise you won't really be able to perceive anything, because the mind is suppressing everything and it's become so collected it's not really able to clearly see what is arising and passing away.

So if you want, you can go to the Visuddhi Magga and try it for yourself and see what happens. But there are instructions for when you go into the for China. All you're doing really is first and foremost going back to a memory or going back to a certain choice you made in the past, and you start to rewind, like when you rewind a tape or something, and you start to see the different choices that were made in previous choices and so on. And then it starts to get even faster, and you start to see certain themes, and you see what you're seeing is rebirth. What rebirth, again, I always talk about, is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result. So every time you go into different lifetimes, you're experiencing a similar set of circumstances until you learn your lesson, so to speak. The lesson being letting go of the attachment, letting go of the aversion, disidentifying with what is happening, and coming to wisdom. But if you don't understand or if you don't see that, then

one will have to continue to experience a similar set of circumstances that are dependent upon those formations. So you're going through these different formations, looking at it and realizing that you have experienced something similar to this in your own lifetime. But the difference now is with this wisdom, you won't act in the same way in that moment. You'll make a different choice and start to let go of the formations that are fettered now. Then when it comes to the other element of seeing the arising and passing away of beings, the psychic faculty of the divine eye, being able to then see the other realms and so forth, this can arise when you have the fourth jhana. So it's a natural progression from the first full knowledge into the second full knowledge. Then you come back to, let's say, this mind and body. You come back to understanding this mind and being able to then see dependent origination in the same way you would after cessation of perception and feeling. That's up to you.

You can try and see. It's best when you have some mastery of the fourth jhana first. And that means, and when I say mastery, that basically means the ability to come in and out of jhana at a certain intentionalized time period. So that means you make determinations. You can go into the first jhana for five minutes and four seconds exactly and come out of it. You can go from the first jhana to the fourth jhana, bypassing the second and third jhana. You can go to the fourth jhana for only five seconds and come out of it. If you're able to do all of this, then you're ready to go and try the threefold knowledge.

Thank you. Thank you, Delson. I have some, I got some idea on this one now, but I don't know. I am not saying that I will attempt it, but yeah. Thanks for giving this. I have a question of listening to the two earlier questions. I think still we have the fear and dread and did not go to the jungle in seclusion, and still we are in samsara.

That is why we are not seeing what he said, the earlier questioner, what he said, that may be the reason why we can't think. Please explain. Can you clarify your question? Yeah, the first part of this is only fear and dread, and people are not entering the in seclusion to the thickest jungle, and still we have the fear and dread. That's why we are not able to see the second and third knowledges, or first knowledge even. Is it correct? Well, yeah, that's a good explanation, actually. If you think about it, you can now internalize this understanding and see that the forest is also the forest of the mind. When you look at the word, the word nir, the word nirvana, right? It means also, it's got so many different meanings. This is wonderful about that word.

Vana in Sanskrit also can mean forest, and nir is no forest. There's no more fear and dread of the forest. There's no more the thicket of views and delusion, and so on and so forth. So it's coming out of the forest of craving, coming out of the forest of the hindrances and the fetters, and so on. So that is a very good point that you're bringing, which is you need to let go of the hindrances in order then to be able to come to a mind of seclusion. You then be able to go into the first, the second, the third, the fourth jhana, and then be able to experience the threefold knowledge, and specifically the fourth jhana, because there is the equanimity there. It has the balance of mind, because the things you might see in the first and second-fold knowledge can also cause some kind of imbalance in the mind. So that equanimity of the fourth jhana is very important. Thank you.

Any other questions? We'll wait for a few more seconds. Let's share some merit. May suffering ones be suffering free, and the fear-struck fearless, being. May the grieving shed all grief, and may all beings find relief. May all beings share this merit that we have thus acquired, for the acquisitions of all kinds of happiness. May beings inhabiting space and earth, devas and nagas of mighty power, share this merit of ours. May they long protect the Buddha's dispensation. Sadhu, sadhu, sadhu. Thank you, Delson. Thank you, Delson.