MN 20 Removal of Distracting Thoughts- Do you Destroy or Torture your Wandering Mind?

Here we are in Majjhima Nikaya 20, Vitakkasanthana Sutta, the removal of distracting thoughts. Thus have I heard. On one occasion, the Blessed One was living at Savatthi in Jetta's Grove, Anathapindika's Park. There he addressed the bhikkhus thus: "Bhikkhus." "Venerable sir," they replied. The Blessed One said this: "Bhikkhus, when a bhikkhu is pursuing the higher mind, from time to time he should give attention to five signs. What are the five?" Whenever he says something like the higher training or the higher mind, he's really referring to the training that is the practice of meditation, the practice of cultivating wholesome thoughts, the practice of letting go of unwholesome thoughts, and the practice of cultivating enough samadhi so that the mind can experience wisdom for itself.

"With the abandoning of them, his mind becomes steadied, internally quieted, brought to singleness and collected, just as a skilled carpenter or his apprentice might knock out, remove and extract a coarse peg by means of a fine one, too. So too, when a bhikkhu gives attention to some other sign connected with what is wholesome, his mind becomes steadied, internally quieted, brought to singleness and collected." So let's look at what we're talking about here.

So when somebody gives attention to some sign, here we're talking about an object. Whenever we see the word sign, it's referring to nimitta, and here in the practice of meditation, we have two kinds of meditation: we have a meditation with object and a meditation without object. So here we're saying that when the object of the mind, the object of one's attention, leads to unwholesome states that are connected with desire or greed, hate or hatred, and delusion, then he should give attention to some other sign connected with what is wholesome.

So how does one do this? If you think about the way the Dhamma is structured, the way the Eightfold Path is structured, there is a quote, and I might have given you this quote before, but it's worth repeating. It's a quote by R. Buckminster Fuller, and he said: "You never change the existing reality by fighting it, but instead you put a new model in its place so that the old one becomes obsolete." So if we keep attending to the unwholesome state or the unwholesome sign, what will happen?

It will keep growing. It will keep flourishing. But if we see it for what it is, and instead of reacting, suppressing, fighting or resisting, which are all ways to continue to fuel that unwholesome state because it feeds on our attention, instead of doing all of that, we let go of it. We essentially 6R it. We utilise right effort, and we replace it with something that is wholesome.

So in the case of desire or greed, we find something that is wholesome. Now, the commentaries would say we find a way to let go of the object of desire by finding it to be impermanent, or finding the foulness associated with that particular object of desire. But it could be as simple as redirecting the mind to something more entertaining. When I say entertaining, I mean something that's more interesting to the mind, like the smile, like loving kindness, like something that the mind can stay with in equanimity, for example.

And obviously, when we talk about hatred, the wholesome state that replaces that is loving kindness or compassion. And with delusion, what is delusion? It's the misperception of that which is impermanent as permanent, that which is suffering as happiness, that which is not me, not mine, not myself, as me, mine, or myself. So how do we let go of delusion?

By realising in that moment the impermanence of this experience, because that leads to realising, "Ah, I'm holding on to something that is not worth holding on to," and we let go of it. By default, we always cultivate something wholesome in the form of loving kindness, because that is our practice when we're dealing with the Brahma Viharas. If you were doing Anapanasati, the object would be Anapanasati, that is, the breathing, the in-breath and the out-breath, in the right way, in accordance with the suttas. None of that nonsense where you're supposed to be paying attention to the place below your nose, or paying attention to the rising of the belly and all that stuff. No, it's the way in which the suttas would talk about it. So we're abandoning those things, those signs connected with the unwholesome, and we are bringing to attention, directing our mind, the attention to the sign that is connected with the wholesome, and therefore, as he says, the mind becomes steadied internally. It has ekaggata composure,

a mind that is unified, a mind that is collected, a mind that has sukha or ease. And then the second part of this: he says, if while he is giving attention to some other sign connected with what is wholesome there still arises in him evil, unwholesome thoughts connected with desire, with hate, with delusion, then he should examine the danger in those thoughts, thus: These thoughts are unwholesome. They are reprehensible.

They result in suffering. When he examines the danger in those thoughts, then any evil, unwholesome thoughts connected with desire, with hate, and with delusion are abandoned in him. With the abandoning of them, his mind becomes steadied, internally quieted, brought to singleness and collected, just as a man or a woman, young, youthful and full of ornaments, would be horrified, humiliated and disgusted if the carcass of a snake or a dog or a human being were hung around his or her neck. So too, when a bhikkhu examines the danger in those thoughts, his mind becomes steadied, internally quieted, brought to singleness and collected. Sometimes the Buddha's similes are very, very interesting. So here the Buddha is saying: we come to the wholesome state of mind, and yet the unwholesome states persist.

They egg us on. And why do they do that? Well, because we've been heeding them for far too long. We have seen, at some point or at some level, a kind of comfort, a laxity, a complacency, where we are okay with those unwholesome states. We are used to them. Look at the world we are in. Everywhere we go there's just fear and anxiety and anger and hatred and resistance, and "oh, he's better than her" and "she's better than him," us versus them, all of these things. So how is it not likely that we would not experience wholesome states? Right? How is it likely that we would experience anything that is positive? In other words, we look at the danger of that. And when we say danger, we're saying we're looking at: every time I pay attention to this state that is full of greed, or associated with hatred, or leading to taking things personally, what happens? All of you here,

you've been hearing this week after week after week, one way or the other, the understanding of the three characteristics. You've all attended retreats at some point where we talk about dependent origination, where we talk about the danger of having heedlessness, the danger of the lack of mindfulness in every given moment, where a sensation arises, a thought arises, an experience arises, and when we take it personally, what happens? Craving arises. Clinging can arise. Being can arise, and the birth of action that leads to suffering can arise.

Therefore, by just seeing the danger: "I'm taking this personally. I'm getting obsessed with whatever it is that seems to be causing me more greed. I'm getting more upset with that which seems to be causing me more aversion. I'm identifying further with that which is actually just causing more delusion." Just because I'm taking it personally, what if I were to see where this leads? That's the thing: we don't develop enough disenchantment. We don't develop enough spiritual urgency in the meditation itself, especially on retreat. Now, I just finished a retreat here in Austria,

and I've been telling people for the last two, three, four days that unless you are tired of those same thoughts, or similar kinds of thoughts, where your mind is getting enamoured by them, getting caught up in them, unless you see through them and become tired of them, that is to say, you say, "Okay, I realise this leads, these thought loops lead to the same place, right, which is just more and more thoughts, and ultimately more and more suffering."

If I can truly understand this and see this, then I stop engaging with those states. I become dispassionate towards them. I have no reaction to them. My mind is in the space of non-reactivity. And so here's the simile that the Buddha uses: just as if someone who were youthful and beautiful and fond of ornaments would be horrified and humiliated and disgusted if the carcass of a snake or a dog or a human being were hung around his or her neck, right? So you're horrified. You see, "Oh my gosh, that doesn't lead to any good place. I don't like that," right? I don't like it, not in terms of aversion, but in terms of disenchantment.

You realise, "Oh, this is not a good place to be in." So you let it go. Then he says, if while he is examining the danger in those thoughts there still arise in him evil, unwholesome states connected with desire, with hate, and with delusion, then he should try to forget those thoughts and should not give attention to them. When he tries to forget those thoughts and does not give attention to them, then any evil, unwholesome states or thoughts connected with desire, with hate, and with delusion are abandoned in him and subside.

And this is where, you know, he found this when he was working with kids. He said that when the kids would get into a heated discussion, or would get flustered, or would get irritated, or whatever it is, there was a white dog around. So he would say, "Oh, look at that white dog over there," and the kids would look at that, and they would forget about what they were fighting about. He realized it works with other people too. And obviously the white dog can represent whatever it is. So somebody would be upset about something, and in order to calm them down he would say, "Oh, oh, look, look what's on TV. Oh, the new show that we want to watch is on," and the person's mind goes there. It sounds very simple. It sounds very simplistic.

but it is the case you know you bring attention to something else if it can't bring something to something on you can't bring something from unwholesome to wholesome bring it to something that is not unwholesome maybe it's not fully wholesome but it's something where you could oh okay let me think about this maybe i'll count from one to ten or maybe i'll just focus on my breath or maybe i'll do this or the other right that's how you forget whatever unwholesome states are present in the case of six r's it's already built in you recognize the unwholesome states you release your attention from those states you relax right when you relax that feels wholesome or it could just feel neutral and then you bring something wholesome in the form of a smile

The 6R's are going to fulfill everything that we're talking about here in this sutta. Really, the sutta should be, "Okay, when this happens, six R's. When this happens, six R's. When this happens, six R's." I could save a lot of time just now by telling you guys, okay, all you have to do is six R's. But what's the fun in that, right? "If, while he is trying to forget those thoughts and is not giving attention to them, there still arise in him evil, unwholesome states connected with desire, with hate, and with delusion, delusion."

"Just as a man walking fast might consider, why am I walking fast? What if I walk slowly? And he would walk slowly. Then he might consider, why am I walking slowly? What if I stand? And he would stand. Then he might consider, why am I standing? What if I sit? And he would sit. Then he might consider, why am I sitting? What if I lie down? And he would lie down. By doing so, he would substitute for each grosser posture one that was subtler. So too, when one gives attention to stilling the thought formation of those thoughts, his mind becomes steadied internally, quieted, brought to singleness, and collected." This is very interesting.

I think we should look at the note of what this says here. This is called vitakka sankhara santhana, or santha, yeah, santha. So here the commentary understands sankhara as condition, cause, or root, and takes a compound to mean stopping the cause of the thought. This is accomplished by inquiring: when an unwholesome thought has arisen, what is its cause? What is the cause of its cause? Such an inquiry brings about a slackening and eventually the cessation of the flow of unwholesome thought. Interesting. So looking at the conditionality and causality of thought right here, Bhante would say, who is thinking these thoughts?

Who is experiencing distraction? Who is feeling flustered? It's a very interesting one, because when you do that and you ask that, your mind tries to find the answer. And what happens is you don't really have an answer. Your mind ceases, the thought form ceases. So what we're looking at is, what is the origin of that thought? Oh, here my mind is experiencing a lot of distractions. My mind goes through a process of going through the same forms of distractions. Well, what is the cause and condition for these thoughts? Where are they coming from?

How are they arising? Okay, there is this cause. What is the cause of that? You see, when you do this your mind starts to slow down. You know, this is why the analogy is there. The person is walking fast, they say, let me walk slow. They're walking slow, they say, let me just stop. They stop, and they say, let me sit down. They say, okay, maybe I should lie down. So it's like, okay, what is the cause of this? Okay, what is the cause? So now your mind starts to become looser, slackening. Right? And as a result, you become less interested in the thought itself, and you're able to redirect your attention to that particular wholesome state.

"When, with his teeth clenched and his tongue pressed against the roof of his mouth, he beats down, constrains, and crushes mind with mind, then any evil, unwholesome thoughts connected with desire, with hate, and with delusion are abandoned in him and subside. With the abandoning of them, his mind becomes steadied, internally quieted, brought to singleness, and collected. Just as a strong man might seize a weaker man by the head or shoulders and beat him down, constrain him, and crush him, so too, when with his teeth clenched and his tongue pressed against the roof of his mouth, one beats down, constrains, and crushes mind with mind, his mind becomes steadied internally, quieted, brought to singleness, and collected."

What does this actually mean, right? Could we really say that the Buddha was talking about, okay guys, I want you to try very hard in this moment to just suppress the hell out of that thought, right? We're going to push our thoughts down. I don't think this is what it's saying here. I know it sounds like that's what he's saying here, because in other suttas you will see where the Buddha says he tried that process and he saw that it didn't work for him, where he clenched his teeth, you know, he pressed his tongue against the roof of his mouth, he crushed mind with mind.

Now, one way to explain this away is actually when you place your tongue against the roof of your mouth, you don't have to press it. But when you keep it there, there is an energetic circuit that's built. And as a result, you become calmer. Your mind becomes calmer. But let's see what the notes say here. He should crush the unwholesome state of mind with a wholesome state of mind. That's all the commentary says.

He should crush the unwholesome state of mind with a wholesome state of mind. So here, what he's saying, I don't think he's saying we have to suppress, right? Because look at the way the progression is going: he's saying, okay, if this doesn't work, then you slow down and you do this. If this doesn't work, you slow down and you do this, or you distract, so-called distract, the mind with something else so it forgets about the unwholesome state. Or you look at the cause of what arose before this thought arose, and your mind starts to let go of that. Now, even if that's not working and the unwholesome states continue, what is the best course of action here? The more you resist, what's going to happen? The more it's going to persist. Just as you push a beach ball down under the surface of the water and you let go of it, what's going to happen? It's going to come back with full force, with the same force. So what do we do? What do we mean by crushing mind with mind? Could it just mean that we just stop?

We let go. I think the use of the word crush is too, too violent, it's too harsh. It could just be that we're saying, well, if this is not working and we can't see the cause of this thought, or that doesn't help to slow down the thoughts, then let's just stop. Let's just stop in that moment. Sometimes you have to see the mind isn't going to cooperate. I think that would be a better way of looking at this.

You just stop. You take a break and go do something else. It's the same case of forgetting that thought. Many times people would do this. They would crush mind with mind. And Bhante would say, I think it's time for you to take a break and go take a walk. Go spend some time in nature, go to the lake and spend some time there. And because their mind was doing something else, their mind in that sense was crushed by a wholesome state of mind. Their unwholesome mind was distracted and crushed by a wholesome state of mind. And then when they would come back, he would say, how was your meditation? And they would ask, what do you mean?

And that's what it was. You were meditating because your mind was loose. Understand that you can't do something by suppressing and crushing. I'm spending more time here because this is a sutta that could be very misunderstood, and this does not jive with the rest of what the Buddha has talked about, which is tranquilizing formations, tranquilizing the body, coming to a state of ease. If you look at the Upanisa Sutta, Samyutta Nikaya 12.23, or you look at Anguttara Nikaya 10.1, 10.2, 10.3, 10.4, 10.5.

In there, nothing about suppression comes up. It's all about letting go, experiencing joy, experiencing tranquility, experiencing ease of mind, experiencing equanimity, experiencing collectedness and equanimity. It's always starting with letting go. The moment we take something personal, we will try to crush it. Okay. Hey, Delson. Yes. So let me quote you from Sutta 36, section 20. I thought, suppose with my teeth clenched and my tongue pressed, exact same thing.

But it's followed by, and the sweat ran from my armpits. But although tireless energy was aroused in me and unremitting mindfulness was established, my body was overwrought and uncalmed because I was exhausted by the painful striving. But such a painful feeling that arose in me did not invade my mind and remain. Who knows where this thing came from? I mean, as Bhante said, it's just suspect. This whole thing is in here. If you look at the rest of the suttas, you might want to even use some kind of an AI platform to look at and analyze this. To what extent does the Buddha really talk about this, compared to his usual instructions of letting go and tranquilizing? It is so out of character of the suttas. Okay, great. You crush mind with mind, and now my mind no longer is with that particular object

or with that unwholesome state, but to what cost? I mean, the Buddha right here just says in 36, my body was overwrought, such that I was tired, such that my body was overwrought with painful feeling. That doesn't sound like sukha to me. That doesn't sound like comfort and ease, which is the usual path to awakening. It's almost as though it says, oh, this doesn't work, and then it says, yeah, well, whatever, but it didn't. I still got rid of that painful feeling. Yeah, yeah. It's just not... it's confusing. But to everyone else, just don't do it. Please don't do it, don't do it. Yes. If you feel like you need to do it, take a break. Go for a walk. Get some fresh air. So, bhikkhus, when a bhikkhu is giving attention to some sign, and owing to that sign there arise in him evil unwholesome thoughts connected with desire, with hate, and with delusion, then when he gives attention to some other sign connected with what is wholesome

any such evil unwholesome thoughts are abandoned in him and subside, and with the abandoning of them his mind becomes steadied, internally quieted, brought to singleness and collected. When he examines the danger in those thoughts, when he tries to forget those thoughts and does not give attention to them, when he gives attention to stilling the thought formation of those thoughts, again, ignore this last part. When with his teeth clenched and his tongue pressed against the roof of his mouth he beats down constraints and crushes mind with mind, any such evil unwholesome thoughts are abandoned in him and his mind becomes steadied, internally quieted, brought to singleness and collected. This bhikkhu is then called a master of the courses of thought.

He will think whatever thought he wishes to think, and he will not think any thought that he does not wish to think. Interesting. I think you will find that as your mind gets more and more collected, when you notice, oh, this is not something I really want to go down, in terms of thoughts, you can just abandon it right there and think about something else. How amazing is that? It sounds so simple, but try it, and you're going to see that's going to be difficult unless you have the higher training in the mind, unless you have samadhi. People in their daily lives

are surrounded by thoughts. Their world is their thoughts, made up by their thoughts and controlled by their thoughts. So to become a master of the courses of thought is to choose not to think about this thing, to choose not to go down this path of thinking, and to replace it with something else. Amazing. Such a person, he says, has severed craving, flung off the fetters, and with the complete penetration of conceit he has made an end of suffering. So such a person, if they can do that, eventually lets go of conceit and therefore becomes an arahant. That is what the Blessed One said. The bhikkhus were satisfied and delighted in the Blessed One's words.

Any questions or any comments? Oh, there's a lot of busy chatting going on in the chat box here. Let's see. There are some negative repetitive thoughts that come back over and over and over and have been coming back for decades. Hard to distract, replace, relax. They're super persistent. Six hours good, and you can make progress, but it's a slow progress. And so David says, yeah, perhaps use forgiveness practice on those. I think that's good advice, because what you have to look at is what are the causes of those thoughts, what is the root of that. Maybe it's resentment, maybe it's guilt, maybe it's something, whatever it might be. Yeah, that's a good way of looking at it. Forgiveness is just a special kind of 6R's. Yeah. What is the Pali word for crush? Maybe mistranslation. Yeah, we should find out. We'll find out and see what. Maybe there might be some key over there. Okay. David, question, yes. Hi Delson, thanks. Thank you. I like the haircut and the beard. It's a good look for you. Thank you.

i not uh uh it's interesting maybe make a a comment about crushing it um in shishin uh zen practice they it's mind gathering like you've been talking about and it's um crushing crushing a sit is there a value in uh i mean it's going to be paradoxical what i'm saying but is there a value in experiencing that tension i mean really pushing it hard and arriving at the point where you're exhausted. I like the word exhaustion. There's something in terms of energetically, you exhaust the mind and then something can pop. So that's when relaxation follows a tension state. I mean, if we're just going to be very logical around it, there's tension and then relax.

But the relaxation is not anything the meditator is going to do. It just occurs. It happens. So is it possible that what the Buddha is talking about, in terms of crushing it and pushing it, is to get to a point, attention state, where the relaxation comes because you're just exhausted? It's like working out. So I'm speaking of it practically and energetically. What do you think about that? Yeah, I'm hearing what you're saying, and what comes to mind about this is

It's a kind of disenchantment that seems to set in, actually, and I'm not saying that we need to do that, because what's going to happen is that's what life is actually already. So we strive, we do something, and then we feel tension, and then we feel a relief afterwards. And what are we doing? We're becoming the Pavlovian meditation dog. It's like, we equate striving and tension with release and relief and relaxation. Whereas if we can replace that process from the get-go with relaxing, because you think about it from this angle: when craving arises, what is it actually doing when craving or aversion or identification arise?

It's actually bringing up in the nervous system the fight or flight, and so we already feel that tension. And so in order to let go of that tension, we fight, or we get angry at someone, or we flee. We have aversion towards it, or we fight in terms of pursuing something that we want, or we do the other ones, fawning, or whatever else the rest of that is. But my point is that action then results in some kind of relief. So then what happens is, oh, for me to have relief I need to do this, which is I need to crave more or I need to have more aversion. So the path here is relaxing before all of that can set in.

And I think, if we continue to tranquilize and we see those persistent thoughts coming and coming and coming, which happens in meditation, there does come a point where disenchantment does set in. And it's like, oh, how many times am I going to allow this thing to happen? How many times am I going to be like, looking at this thing? How many times am I going to try to hold a wholesome thought and then get flustered by an unwholesome thought? How many times am I going to resist or get attracted to something or whatever it is? And that's when the disenchantment sets. And it's like, it's like, what, I quit, I give up.

And I think that's what we're really talking about here. I give up all effort completely, because any effort now is creating more resistance from those distractions. So I give up. And then giving up, my mind automatically tranquilizes. And it's like, the attention is automatically redirected somewhere else. Yeah, and it's interesting, because what you're saying, relaxation, I know Zochun constantly emphasizes recognition, now relax. I mean, it's like, but just to find a point to the energetics around it, it's like everything you're saying I agree with, but there's a risk of getting too cognitive around it. Meaning, yes, there's an awareness, but the energetics, like the woman or man, why did I assume it was a woman?

But the constant thoughts that they're having, that they've had for years of their practice, it's like really settling into that experience. Notice the experience, the tension, and just developing awareness around it so that, like you said, it'll pop on its own. It's not like you're doing anything, changing a thought, even getting disenchanted. Disenchantment happens when, again, that word exhaustion, I love it. It's like you're just exhausted. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you. Really, I just sneaked off to see what Thanissaro Bhikkhu said, and the choice of mind was replaced by awareness.

So I haven't had time to really contemplate that, but it's a little bit different. It almost implies a going into or an investigation. Yeah, yeah, I could see that happening, where, if I'm riffing off of what you're saying and just thinking out loud here, it sounds like what could happen is just by being aware, having, like, resting an awareness, you just see that thought and the thought kind of just gets reabsorbed in the awareness. It's just, oh, okay, rather than us trying to do something with it. Awareness is a good word, actually. That is a good softer feeling. Uh, Shang one. Yeah, thank you, Darcy, for the wonderful dharma talk. I have a question. You said the tongue pressed against the roof of the mouth, it will lead to the enthusiasm and the peace. My question is, do you recommend doing this in daily life or even meditation?

Oh, I talked about that in terms of another practice where somebody rests their tongue to the roof of their mouth and it creates some kind of a circuit, an energy circuit, that allows for a more balanced body and a balanced mind. But I don't think it's something you need to consciously do when you actually are automatically relaxed. The mind automatically just relaxes to the roof of the mouth if you just pay attention to that. So it's not something I would say you need to do or you have to practice.

Okay, thank you. I just want to take a moment to thank David for allowing me to join the online retreat again. I really appreciate your kindness and support. Thank you. Okay, anyone else? If there's nothing else we can share on the chat, but I replied, David, but apparently replying is hidden. So the question: how to know if this sutta is not original, and what will be our stand as a TWIM meditator to something uncertain like this?

I don't know. I don't know. I can't tell you, because everybody will have their own idea of whether this is a later edition or it's something else. All I can say is that, having read a lot of other suttas, this part seems very uncharacteristic of many of the words the Buddha has spoken, where the journey is about letting go and abandoning unwholesome states. Experiencing pamojja, which is relief and gladness. Experiencing piti, which is joy. Experiencing passambhaya, which is the process of tranquilizing.

Experiencing sukha, which is comfort and ease in the mind and the body. Experiencing collectedness as a result of that. So when I look at that sutta and many other suttas like that, and I compare it with this particular thing, it's almost like the Buddha is saying, as like a last resort, look, if you really feel like you need to do something, then do this. But you're not going to, because he also says it in 36. You're not going to feel good about it, right? But I think the stand of TWIM as a

When we say TWIM, you know, we keep talking about TWIM as if it's some school or something. Really, all TWIM is, is samatha and vipassana. So samatha and vipassana are yoked together, which is all based in the suttas. And if we're going to look at the suttas, then we're going to see that the majority of suttas talk about relaxing and tranquilizing and letting go. I think that should speak for itself.

So in the meantime, I asked the TWIMbot to figure out what is the poly for this, and it's gone ahead and done it. And here it is in the chat. So I asked the question, does this match the poly? Does the English match the poly? Yeah. And it seems to say that it does. Okay. So if you look at it, maybe you're better interpreting this. Let's see if the chat... Okay. Did you post? Did you paste it in the chat? Oh, maybe I didn't send it. No? No, there it goes. With the mind, one should restrain, press down, crush, and overpower the mind. Chetasa chitam is with the mind, okay. Abhiniganaya is restrain, hold down, or subdue.

Abhinipileya is press, squeeze, and crush. Abhinipileya is afflict, torment. Torment. That is so. Okay. Wow. So crush mind with mind is textually defensible, particularly for Abhinipileya. But it abbreviates a sequence of three verbs. The passage also says to clench the teeth and press the tongue against the roof of the mouth, of the palate. Followed by the simile of a strong man. Okay, yeah. Context matters. This is the fifth and final method for removing a stubborn unwholesome thought, after four progressively gentler methods have failed. It is an emergency measure, not a general instruction for meditation or a definition of jhana. Mind with mind here mostly naturally means employing deliberate wholesome mental effort to overpower an entrenched unwholesome train of thought, not positing two separate minds.

Okay. I think this is good to know about the context here. When all else fails, you do that, but that's like an emergency thing. And I still don't think anything qualifies as that. I don't think anything that we deal with really qualifies with that. It's easier to just go for a walk, call it a day, eat some ice cream, and come back later.

Yeah, well, I'll tell you, Bhante, every now and then there would be a student who'd go and say, well, I just keep thinking about this. And Bhante would say, finally, in frustration, he says, just stop it. Cut it out. And it was like, oh, oh, okay. It shakes him off. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So not crushing anything, but yeah, just stop it, wake up. Wake up. You startle the mind, basically. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Hello. Yeah. There's a question: historically, has there been a sect that practices only what is in the suttas, or did the Vaibhashikas dominate until recently? Um, there's the Sautrantikas, who are the ones who only follow the suttas, and then you have those who follow also the Abhidhamma in addition to the suttas. But the Sautrantikas, I think, for the most part are no longer around. We just have the Theravadins, and what we see as modern day Theravada. You are sure in your mind who is the one? It's like Captain Phillips: I am the captain now. David.

Yeah. Just one point that was made in listening to y'all. It's like, it almost seems like an obsessive thought, and being trained as a therapist, psychoanalyst, it's like, Carl Jung says, if you resist, it shall persist. So it's like this obsessive thought. Maybe again, approach it with the more gentle sort of... the woman said awareness, yeah, open awareness, mahamudra. It's like, ah, okay, let it be there. Again, don't attach, cling. I mean, that's the whole point. Don't turn away. That's the teaching, and just notice mindfully it's there, and to the sense that you can open again, open awareness, open to it. And even if it doesn't pass, I'm saying this as an analyst, it's like, oh, the obsessive thought won't pass. It's not that, it's that you allow it to be there until energetically, on its own, it transmutes.

Yeah, yeah, and I see what you're saying, and it's more like, I'm contextualizing in the suttas, for example, what you're saying, which is, if you think about, like, the Bhayabherava sutta, which is, I think, MN 4, which we've probably already done, I might be mistaken, but it's where the Buddha, as a bodhisattva, going into the forest, and it's like he finds that there's fear in him, and he just stays there until the fear subsides, and so he's just aware of that passing. So it's like the thought loses its steam, it loses its energy when you're in that space. Yeah, cool.

Anyone else? If not, we can share some merit. Okay. May suffering ones be suffering free, and the fear struck fearless. May the grieving shed all grief, and may all beings find relief. May all beings share this merit that we have thus acquired, for the acquisition of all kinds of happiness. May beings inhabiting space and earth, devas and nagas of mighty power, share this merit of ours. May they long protect the Buddha's dispensation. Thank you, everyone. I will see you next week. Have a good week. Take care. Thank you.