May 29, 2021– DN 33 – The Chanting Together – Second Recitation

Good morning, good afternoon, good evening everyone. I hope you're all doing well. I'm going to continue with the sets of five from this translation of the Digha Nikaya number 33, Sangiti Sutta, and this is a translation, I believe, by Bhikkhu Bodhi as well as Maurice Walshe. So let's get started. These are sets of five things perfectly proclaimed: five aggregates, body, feelings, perceptions, mental formations, consciousness. Five aggregates of grasping, that's the punch, upadana khandha. It's the same body, feelings, perceptions, mental formations and consciousness. So as we understand the five aggregates, that is to say form, rupa, and that has to do with the four great elements. We already understand that the understanding of the four great elements in ancient India corresponds with the states of matter as we understand it in modern science, that make up the different components of the body in different ways: solid, liquid, air and fire or plasma. And feelings are essentially in relation to vedana, vedana being an experience of the five physical senses or the mind, and these are sensations upon which there is a pleasant experience.

An unpleasant experience or a neutral experience, and the understanding of that experience being pleasant, unpleasant or neutral is perception. But perception goes deeper than that. Perception also deals with the memory of the mind in terms of what one has learned in the past. So as soon as you see something or you see someone, you have a certain perception about that person or thing based on your previous memories of them. And mental formations really are in relation to sankhara, and that is the abhisankhara. Sankharas that are karmic in nature, sankharas that are influenced and conditioned by ignorance, and these are fettered formations, which is to say that they have craving, conceit, and ignorance in them.

Consciousness here is really cognition, or the bare awareness of an experience, whether it is a sensory experience or mental experience. Now, going back to formations: when the mind is free of all the taints, then the five aggregates are still present, but the formations there are going to be arising because of contact. So contact always gives rise to the formations, no matter if it is influenced by ignorance or not, but this time the formations will be seen as impersonal, seen as impermanent, and seen as not worth holding on to. So these five aggregates also correspond with the mentality and materiality, with nama-rupa, materiality with form. You have contact also with form, because contact can only arise dependent upon the sixth sense basis, which are also made up of form, which are made up of some kind of matter. Now the healing perception formations and consciousness correspond to the mentality, the factors of mentality, as well. So contact with the form, or the body; feeling with the feeling aggregate; perception with the perception aggregate; intention with the formations aggregate; and attention with the consciousness aggregate. So intention here is in relation to you

making contact with something, meaning the sixth sense basis makes contact with something, it arouses some kind of formation, and that formation can give rise to some kind of intention. If that intention is fettered by craving, meaning the formations that give rise to that intention are fettered by craving and hindered by ignorance, it will then correspond to some action that can lead to craving, clinging and being. But if the intention is something that is seen as impersonal, then the formations that arise won't give rise to the potentials for craving, clinging and being. Consciousness or cognition is corresponding to attention at the level of contact. When you have the form and the eye, for example, when the photons bounce off the form and hit the receptors in the eye, it creates, or it manifests, the eye consciousness, and this eye consciousness is really attention. It's only when you see something and pay attention to it that there is contact. It's not just bare sensory impact, but it also has to have that attention present. So if any of these processes in mentality, materiality or the five aggregates

have clinging to them have the nature of clinging or subject to clinging that is where the problem is that is what needs to be understood and what is that clinging this clinging or this uh upadana is essentially related to the desire or craving or clinging that arises in relation to any of these five aggregates that happens when you think of any of these five aggregates as permanent and any of these experiences of the five aggregates as being personal as soon as you identify with them then there is a possibility for further craving and a possibility for further clinging and so on so what needs to be understood is the impersonal nature of all the five aggregates and the impersonal nature of all the links of dependent origination up until feeling because it's at the process of feeling when you see it as it really is which is arising because of causes and conditions and therefore impermanent you let go of any identity identification with it and see it as personal and therefore it will not cause further craving or suffering

Then there are the five strands of sense desire: a sight seen by the eye, a sound heard by the ear, a smell smelled by the nose, a flavor tasted by the tongue, a tangible object felt by the body, as being desirable, attractive, nice, charming, associated with lust and arousing passion. So this is in relation to craving. Craving arises dependent upon the experience of the sixth sense basis, but here it's in relation to the physical craving, the physical craving arising dependent upon the five physical senses. So as we just discussed earlier with regards to the aggregates, if you take the feeling as personal, if you identify with it, then you will take that feeling as I, me, myself, take it as I am this feeling. And when you do that, you experience the pleasure in that feeling and you take that pleasure in that feeling as yourself.

Or you take that pain in the feeling as yourself, or the neutral feeling as yourself. In all cases there is the potential for craving to arise from that. So these five strands of sense desire are so-called because they are dependent upon the eye seeing something that is pleasurable, the ear hearing something that is pleasurable, the nose smelling something pleasurable, the taste buds enjoying something that is of scrumptious flavor, the body feeling something that is pleasurable, with skin or to the body in total. So if you notice this and you let go using the 6R's process, then these senses and the experience that's happening dependent upon these senses won't provide any craving, won't provide any pain or inherent suffering, because you don't cause yourself to identify with them.

Five post-mortem destinies: hell, animal, rebirth in the realm of hungry ghosts, human, and the deva world. So these five destinations: you have the hell realms, you have the animal realm, you have the hungry ghost realm, you have the human realm, and you have the deva realms. These are the five realms that make up the kamadhatu, that is to say the sphere of sensual pleasures or sensual experiences. In these realms there is a potential to experience pain or pleasure, depending upon what realm it is. The hell realm has basically the rebirth into a hell realm is dependent specifically on the impurity of hatred, if one acts out of hatred and habitually

acts out of hatred habitually, has violence towards others in speech and especially in action, if one keeps grudges, if one abuses another through words or through actions, and of course if one kills habitually, and kills even one time. In fact, the assured destination of hell in the next rebirth is dependent upon five different actions. The five different actions that are factors for this are: killing intentionally, killing one's own mother or father, killing an arahant, drawing the blood of a Buddha, or getting in the way of a Buddha, as we've seen with another person in another sutta where they didn't give way to the Buddha and immediately they were drawn into the Avici hell; or somebody creating a schism in the Sangha. These are five requisites for immediate rebirth, meaning the next very next rebirth will be in hell, and these are all dependent upon hatred, all dependent upon aversion and ill will. The animal rebirth is dependent upon

specifically the mental impurity of ignorance or delusion. It's where the mind indulges in all kinds of sensual pleasures and basically dulls the mind. It's where the mind will crave for all kinds of sensual pleasures: intoxicants, drugs, alcohol, sex, food and so on. Because of that, the mind becomes animalistic in nature, and such a mind also has wrong view, just like a person destined for the hell realms will have wrong view as well. The realm of the hungry ghosts is dependent upon the craving mindset, the greed mindset, that is to say someone who is always craving for things and acts out of that craving, acts out of jealousy, acts out of grudges, acts out of stinginess. If somebody is not generous with their smile, generous with their words, generous with their kindness, doesn't express kindness, doesn't keep the precepts and so on, they are liable to be born into the hungry ghost realms. If one causes pain to another, or through one's words causes pain to another, one is subject to the realm of the hungry ghosts.

In the hell realms and in the animal realms there's very little one can do. In fact, it's only when the karma is exhausted and there is some good karma available that there's potential for rebirth in a higher realm, or back to the human realm. In the case of the hungry ghosts, they have very little recourse, except for relatives from past lives dedicating merit to them, or dedicating merit in general, so being generous, sharing with the monastic community, and basically being kind and loving and compassionate and so on, and dedicating that merit to all beings. The relatives who are in the ghost realms will basically have that merit, and that adds to their good kamma. So in that sense they have that potential of coming out of that realm. And of course, when that kamma of the health of the hungry ghost realm is exhausted, they will take rebirth in the higher realm.

Before I get into the human realm, the deva realm has different kinds of levels. It's very diverse, just like the animal realm, in terms of the kinds of beings that are there. But essentially, the way to the deva realms is to maintain the precepts, is to be generous, is to be kind, is to create situations of harmony, is to resolve conflicts, is to share with the community at large and for the welfare of society. It's to always be truthful, to always see how you can share your resources with others for their benefit. Of course, serving and helping the monastic community in any way you can. And essentially, there is no meditation practice that leads to the deva world. It is more primarily related to the world of the brahmas and so on. But with the deva world, it's basically the different realms where the devas experience the pleasure. They are essentially

enjoying all kinds of sensual pleasures. So there's very little recourse for them to really learn the Dhamma. The majority of them will be more interested in just having fun and a good time there, and then are liable to come back to the human realm. Or in case they are able to help others in their process of following the Dhamma, then they make good merit in that way, and they make good kamma, and that adds to that storage, that storehouse of kamma for them. So their life, they can then just keep manifesting, keep having rebirth in the deva realms. But as we see, all of these realms are conditioned and they are impermanent, and so they will have inherent dukkha in them. They don't lead to nibbana, and they don't lead to the end of kamma and rebirth. And then the human realm is the most special realm, because in the human realm you have both pleasure and pain.

But the human realm gives you the ability, especially now, where we are at this point in time, and being able to be around the time of the Buddha's dispensation where his influence is still there. We have the suttas here, we have the teachings, we have the techniques, we have the knowledge, and the ability to apply that knowledge and transform it into wisdom. So the rarity of a human life is just immeasurable in that sense, and the ability for one to be in a human life in a world system where a Buddha has taken rebirth is also just completely unfathomable. So it's important to understand that. And if someone really understood that, they would keep their precepts, obviously, but more importantly they would dedicate their time and their efforts as much as possible to meditation, as much as possible to attaining nibbana, because it is a very precious thing, and

the disadvantage with the lower realms is that there's only pain there, there's only suffering there, there's not a lot of recourse to do something good, whereas in the deva realms there's a lot of pleasures and there's a lot of distractions, and so no one is really interested that much in letting go of those pleasures. But in the human realm there's a bit of a balance, even though it seems like a lot of lives are different measurements of good and bad and pleasurable and painful. But ultimately, this is the time in the human realm to really take advantage of all of the Dhamma, cultivate the path, and attain nibbana and full awakening. So these are the five different destinations, five kinds of begrudging. So begrudging, I think we should understand the Pali of this, which is macchariya, and that really doesn't mean like holding a grudge or being begrudging someone in that sense, but it's more about stinginess.

it's not sharing, it's not being of a generous mindset. And so, five kinds of stinginess: as to one's dwelling place, as to one's house or as to one's shelter; families; gains; beauty; and Dhamma. The families here can be, in the Pali understanding, one's relatives, stinginess in terms of sharing the goodness with one's relatives, or in the sense of the Sangha, sharing with the Dhamma community at large, the family of Dhamma followers and Dhamma practitioners. The gains are in relation to, of course, monetary gains or other resources, but also gains in terms of one's own merit, being able to share that with another person, whatever resources that they have. Beauty, I would not say that's the right translation, because vanna here can be from the Sanskrit varna, which is status, one's place in society, so to speak. So using the influence that one has in society for

the development of one's path and development of the Dhamma for others and the Dhamma itself. Being stingy with the Dhamma, that seems like an oxymoron, because why would you want to be stingy with the Dhamma if you really understood the Dhamma and if you really practiced the Dhamma? You would want to be generous all the time, and you would be open to sharing the Dhamma with those who are interested, those who ask questions. It wouldn't make sense to hold on to that and keep it like some secret jewel, not to be shared with others. Five hindrances: sensuality, ill will, sloth and torpor, worry and flurry or restlessness, and skeptical doubt. So we already understand these hindrances when they arise in jhana practice, in our meditation practice. Whenever these hindrances arise, we know what to do with them. It is to use right effort, is to use the 6R's: recognize that there is a hindrance present, let go of that hindrance by releasing your attention away from that, and relaxing the mind and the body, or just the mind if one is in the formless realm, for example

and letting go of that craving, experiencing joy in the form of the smile. So coming back to the smile, and returning to one's object of meditation, and thus coming back into jhana. You know you are in jhana whenever none of these hindrances are present. If a hindrance is present, then you are no longer in jhana. And this is a good opportunity to explain how these 6R's in that sense are also fulfilling the Four Noble Truths. You can look at it in your jhana practice, in your meditation practice, as: here is a hindrance. That is the first Noble Truth of dukkha, that this hindrance is present. You have recognized it. You release your attention away from it, and you relax it by relaxing the tension. You abandon the second Noble Truth of tanha, whatever arises in the way of identifying with the hindrance, trying to push it away, trying to do something with it. You abandon that relaxed attention, then you experience nirodha, which is, in that relaxed step, you have this tranquility of mind, this mundane nibbana, which is the cessation of the cessation

of suffering. So you experience for that time being the third Noble Truth, and then you return to your object and you repeat that process whenever you need to. And that process is an encapsulation of the entire path, because every time you apply the 6R's you are essentially fulfilling the fourth Noble Truth of the path of magga. The five lower fetters: personality belief, that is psychiatry, doubt, attachment to rites and rituals, sensuality, and ill will. So we understand this also, but briefly. Personality belief, or sakkaya ditthi, is the belief in a personal self. It's the idea that there is some kind of self present, whether it's in the body or it is the body, or whether it's one of the five khandhas or it is within the five aggregates, and so on. You let go of the idea of a personality

let go of the idea of a permanent, all-pervading personality on an intellectual level when you enter the stream. So when you become a sotapanna you let go of that. You let go of doubt in the practice because you have seen it for yourself. You have respect and reverence because of that. You have conviction and faith in the Buddha, in the Dhamma, and in the Sangha, so you make the effort to continue, and there is no longer any doubt. Attachment to rites and rituals really is attachment to the idea that something other than the path

will lead you to nibbana. But now that you have seen it for yourself and attained nibbana and attained stream entry, you'll let go of any attachments to that. By letting go of the first three fetters you completely close off the destinations of the hell realm, the animal realm and the hungry ghost realm. So a stream enterer can only take rebirth in the human realm or higher than that. Then sensuality and ill will: that is really craving and aversion, craving to sensual desires, craving to sensual experiences and pleasures, and so on, and having aversion towards any kind of sensual or mental experience. In the case of a sakadagami, they have very minimum of this, and they might notice it and immediately use the 6R's process to let that go. In the case of the anagami, they don't have that present at all. They have completely eradicated the fetter of craving and ill will. Five higher fetters: craving for the world of form, that is rupa raga; craving for the formless realm, or arupa raga; conceit, or mana; restlessness; and ignorance

so when you destroy these five fetters you become an arahat now this craving for the world of form the craving for the formless realm and the restlessness are actually dependent upon the mana dependent upon the conceit because there is an i am present in the world of form in the sense of the form jars in the sense of the rupa janas there's an attachment there so even for the anagami they still have conceit present and there is the sense of i am practicing i am in this jhana the craving for the formless realm is in relation to the ayatanas the aruba janas that is to say infinite space infinite consciousness nothingness and neither perception and non-perception so these are dependent again on the i am on that sense of conceit on that fetter of conceit

the restlessness also is dependent upon conceit, because there is this agitation that happens in the mind that one identifies with. You will notice that in the meditation, at some point in the beginning, the mind is sort of still moving around in some places before it actually starts to become collected. In the case of the arahant there is no movement of mind. A more extreme form of that restlessness would be actual agitation of the mind, which is dependent upon this I am, that there's something going on, this sense of me. When you let go of conceit, that is to say let go of complete identification with the five aggregates and the sixth sense base, you cut off that underlying tendency towards conceit, cut off that fetter, then the craving for the rupa jhana, the craving for the arupa jhana, and the restlessness go.

When you see this process of the Four Noble Truths in every moment, when you have that experience of the Four Noble Truths in all of the links of dependent origination, when they arise and cease, and you see all of this as an impersonal process, you understand the four noble truths completely, which means you have completely understood the first noble truth of suffering. You've completely abandoned all sorts of craving, including craving for existence and craving for non-existence. You have completely let go of the bhava, the bhavatanha. You have let go of the taint or the defilement of being. You have let go completely of that ignorance, because you have abandoned that craving, abandoning the second noble truth of craving. You have come to the realization and the experience of nirodha, of cessation of suffering. By doing so, and how you've done so, rather, is through the noble eightfold path, through following the path completely and developing and cultivating it. You have fulfilled the parameters of the four noble truths, and therefore there is no more ignorance present.

Five rules of training: refraining from taking life, taking what is not given, sexual misconduct, lying speech, strong drink and sloth-producing drugs. So this we understand to be the taking of the five precepts, which is to say that every time you take the five precepts you are following these rules of training, which is to refrain from these things, five impossible things. An arahant is incapable of deliberately taking the life of a living being, taking what is not given so as to constitute theft, sexual intercourse, telling a deliberate lie, storing up goods for sensual indulgence as he once did formerly in the household life. These are the five things an arahant is incapable of doing. An arahant is incapable of five kinds of loss: loss of relatives, wealth, health, morality and right view, or view. In this case, no beings fall into an evil state, a happy state, after death because of loss of relatives, wealth or health, but beings do fall into such states by loss of morality and right view. So as we understand

When we lose the possessions that we have in this life, when we lose relatives or parents or siblings or any family member or friends, or we lose in our health, there is that loss, but it is nothing compared to falling into a state where we don't have morality and we have wrong view, because that leads to the lower realms. Five kinds of gains: gain of relatives, wealth, health, morality and right view. No beings arise in a happy heavenly state after death because of the gain of relatives, wealth or health.

But beings are reborn in such states because of gains in morality and right view. So in other words, in this life, when we have a new family member in the form of a birth, when we have new relationships arise through different connections, new friendships built, when we have new wealth gained and better health, and so on, that's all wonderful. That's a wonderful aspect of life, but ultimately it is impermanent and dependent upon causes and conditions, so they are liable to fade away at some point or another. But having the right view, having stream entry and establishing the right view, understanding it and developing one's morality, it helps one to gain better things. Ultimately, having stream entry, having that morality and right view, means that you have a one-way ticket to full awakening, to arahatship, and that is worth more than anything in samsara. It's the one-way ticket out of samsara. Five dangers to the immoral through lapsing from morality

So this is in sutta 16, verse 1.23. I'm going to go to that now. I have this bookmark. Let me make sure I have the right one. Let's see. Here we go. Then the blessed one addressed the lay followers of Atali Gama, householders. There are these five perils to one of bad morality, of failure in morality. What are they? In the first place, oh, this is in reference to what I just said. Hold on, let me make sure I got this right. Let me go to the sutta of manually. Thank you. Okay, there we go.

Okay, got it. Then the Lord addressed the lay followers of Patali Gama, that's the one, householders. There are these five perils to one of bad morality, of failure in morality. What are they? In the first place, he suffers great loss of property through neglect, neglecting his affairs. In the second place, he gets a bad reputation for immorality and misconduct. In the third place, whatever assembly he approaches, whether of khattiyas, brahmins, householders or ascetics, he does so diffidently and shyly. In the fourth place, he dies confused. So in other words, by a failure to have morality, and having one of bad morality, it can cause a detriment to one's reputation. It can cause great loss in one's wealth. It can cause this sense of shame in society, and of course confusion, which is to say one is of wrong view, and it could lead one to a bad destination.

And then, as it says, in the fifth place, after death, at the breaking up of the body, he arises in an evil state, in an evil state, a bad fate and suffering and hell. These are the five perils to one of bad morality. And householders, there are these five advantages to one of good morality and of success in morality. What are they? In the first place, through careful attention to his affairs, he gains much wealth. In the second place, he gains a good reputation for morality and good conduct. In the third place, whatever assembly he approaches, whether of khattiyas, brahmins, householders or ascetics, he does so with confidence and assurance. In the fourth place, he dies unconfused. In the fifth place, after death, at the breaking up of the body, he arises in a good place, a heavenly world. These are the five advantages to one of good morality and of success in morality.

So I'm going to go back. Yeah, those are the five disadvantages or dangers and the five benefits. Five points to be borne in mind by a monk wishing to rebuke another: I will speak at the proper time, not the wrong time. I will state the truth, not what is false. I will speak gently, not roughly. I will speak for his good, not for his harm. I will speak with love in my heart, not with enmity.

So this is not just for monastics, but it can be for anybody. If they feel like they want to approach somebody in a conversation about something, they have to consider these five things. And the acronym THINK will probably be a good mnemonic device for that. T-H-I-N-K, think before speaking, which is to say: is it timely or not? H, is it honest or dishonest? I, what is the intention in what you're going to say, in terms of your intention to cause harm or your intention to uplift a person, whatever your intention is, and is it necessary for the benefit of the people you're going to talk to? And K, is what you're going to say imbued with loving kindness? Are the words you're going to be speaking rooted in kindness, rooted in gentleness? Five factors of endeavors

Here a monk has faith, trusting in the enlightenment of the Tathagata: thus this blessed Lord is an arahant, a fully enlightened Buddha. So there is conviction, there is faith, not only in the Buddha but in the Dhamma and in the Sangha. They have good health, suffer little distress or sickness, have good digestion that is neither too cool nor too hot but of a middling temperature suitable for exertion. So taking care of oneself in terms of making sure one is in good health: whenever one practices meditation, whenever one makes the effort to practice meditation, one has to take into account these things. Are you in a healthy state of body? Is the body tired or is it energetic? Is it restless? Is the food you have eaten causing any kind of distress in the body, or is it suitable for you to eat for the purposes of having a mind and body that is at ease? Is the temperature in your room good? Is it cool or is it too hot? Whatever works for you, whatever is suitable.

And he is not fraudulent or deceitful, showing himself as he really is to his teachers or to the wise among his companions in the holy life. That is to say, being upfront with whatever it is, in terms of, for example, when you go on retreat, being obviously truthful and honest and upfront about whatever it is that you're experiencing, so that the teacher can provide you the relevant information that is required for you to apply, so that you can make changes to your practice. So you're upfront with that. You're not holding on to anything, or you're not withholding anything, for whatever reason it might be. Just be open, upfront and honest. He keeps his energy constantly stirred up for abandoning unwholesome states and arousing wholesome states, and is steadfast, firm in advancing and persisting in wholesome states. So these are the four right efforts.

And these are also the 6R's. Basically, he keeps his energy stirred up for abandoning unwholesome states. How do you abandon that? You basically prevent any arisen wholesome states from arising by recognizing whatever it is. You release your attention away from it. You relax and abandon the unwholesome state. You re-smile, so you're generating joy, you're generating a wholesome state, and then you maintain that, so you persist in that wholesome state by returning to your object of meditation. He is one endowed with

endowed with wisdom concerning rising and cessation, with the Aryan penetration that leads to the complete destruction of suffering. So that is to say, one is endowed with the understanding of impermanence, the understanding of dukkha, and the understanding of the impersonal nature of reality. So endowed with this wisdom that completely leads one to completely letting go of all conditioned reality, and thereby attaining nibbana, and letting go of any identification of the process, thereafter leads one to the destruction of all the taints and the fetters, and thereby attaining arahantship. In the five pure abodes, Aviha, unworried, clearly visible, clear sighted and peerless. So the five pure abodes are associated with the realm or the plane of existence of the anagami. So when one lets go of the sensual craving and the aversion or ill will fetters, then they completely let go of the five lower fetters. Once they do that, they become an anagami, and if they don't progress into arahantship in that same life, then they will take rebirth in one of these five pure abodes.

And they are associated with the faculties, so that's another understanding of the five pure abodes. Aviha, unworried, clearly visible, clear-sighted and peerless, these are the five. And aviha has to do with the understanding of... I just slipped there. It's the understanding of the energy, the understanding of collectedness, of mindfulness and of wisdom. So there's the fifth one that I'm missing. If someone can help me out with that, if they know it. But essentially those are the states that are associated with these five pure abodes: five kinds of non-returner. The less than half timer, the more than half timer, the gainer without exertion, the gainer with exertion, he who goes upstream to the highest. So in other words, when one goes to the realms of the non-returner, the less than half timer essentially takes rebirth and immediately will enter arahatship or

less than half the time of having been there, they will attain arahatship, or they will spend more time than half and then attain arahatship. The gainer without exertion, which is they don't make any exertion and they just let go, and there is the entry into arahatship. The gainer with exertion, making the effort and then attaining arahatship. He who goes upstream to the highest. So this is one who goes through the different realms of the pure abodes and attains arahatship in that way. And so now, going back to the abodes, we have faith, energy, mindfulness, collectedness and wisdom. Thank you very much for that. So essentially that means that aviha is related to faith, that is conviction in the Buddha, the Dhamma and the Sangha. The energy, or the effort that one makes, that is related to the realm of the unworried. Mindfulness with clearly visible

collectedness with clear-sighted, and wisdom or insight with the peerless. Thank you for that. Five mental blockages. Here a monk has doubts and hesitations about the teacher, is dissatisfied and cannot settle in his mind. Thus his mind is not inclined towards ardor, devotion, persistence and effort. He has doubt and hesitations about the Dhamma, about the Sangha, about training. He is angry and displeased with his fellows in the holy life. He feels depressed and negative towards them. Thus his mind is not inclined towards ardor, devotion, persistence and effort.

Essentially, one needs to have some form of an open mind towards the Buddha, the Dhamma and the Sangha. You have to have that faith that is generated by having that open mind before you continue on the path. If you have any kind of doubt, that is going to lead nowhere. He is angry and displeased with his fellows in the holy life. He feels depressed and negative towards them. So there's no reason to do that. That can arise out of jealousy, that can arise out of some kind of contempt, arise by some kind of one-upmanship, or whatever it might be. And for whatever reason, then that mind will not progress because of that. So you have to have and cultivate loving kindness. You have to cultivate compassion, cultivate mudita.

When somebody else attains a jhana, it is a time to be happy and celebrate that. When somebody has an attainment, it is a wonderful thing, and it is a time to celebrate and be happy for that person. In doing so you are developing mudita. So this is the way you let go of these things. First is to have the open mind in the beginning of the practice, and when you see that, you develop the conviction in the practice, in the Buddha, in the Sangha. You cultivate loving kindness, you cultivate compassion and mudita, and of course you make the effort to incline your mind. And so then you have the ardor, devotion, persistence and effort. Five mental bondages. Here a monk has not got rid of the passion, desire, love, thirst, fever, craving for sensual desires.

Thus his mind is not inclined towards ardor, persistence and effort. He has craving for the body or physical objects, or having eaten as much as his belly will hold. He abandons himself to the pleasure of lying down, of contact, of sloth and torpor, or he practices the holy life for the sake of becoming a member of some body of devas, thinking, by means of these rites or this discipline, this austerity or this holy life, I shall become one of the devas, great or small. Thus his mind is not inclined towards ardor, devotion, persistence and effort. So in other words, you're talking about craving for sensual desires. If you continue to indulge in that, you're not going to be able to understand the path, understand the Dhamma. You have to look at it and let it go through the six R's process. For the body, for physical objects, again the pleasures that arise from the body, identifying with the body, identifying with contact with physical objects, all of this, one lets go of identifying with, let's go of the craving for it, let's go of the taste for food. Just eat

whatever is suitable for your needs, and that's enough. You eat too much, you'll find that the body becomes slack, it becomes tired and you want to take a nap in the afternoon, and because of that there arises sloth and torpor. So be controlled in how you eat, be controlled in what you eat. You have to experiment and see what works best for you, but essentially you want to prevent sloth and torpor from arising. He practices the holy life for the sake of becoming a member of somebody of deva. So this is the wrong kind of thinking. The idea is not to just be a member of the Sangha, or to be part of the monastic community, or to practice this because you want to just attain the brahma realms or the deva realms or whatever it might be. The intention here should be full awakening. Intention here should be Nibbana. Five faculties: the eye, the faculty of eye, your nose, tongue, body. Five more faculties: pleasant bodily feeling, pain, gladness, sadness, indifferent feeling. Five more faculties: faith, energy, mindfulness, concentration and wisdom. Five elements making for deliverance.

Here, when a monk considers sense desires, his mind does not leap forward and take satisfaction in them, fix on them or make free with them. But when he considers renunciation, it does leap forward, takes satisfaction in it, fixes on it and makes free with it, and he gets this thought: well set, well developed, well raised up, well freed and disconnected from sense desires. And thus he is freed from the corruptions, the vexations and fevers that arise from sense desires, and he does not feel that sensual feeling. This is called the deliverance from sense desires. And the same applies to ill will, cruelty, forms and personality. So let's break that down. Five elements making for deliverance. Here one considers the sense desires, or the ill will, or the cruelty, or forms, or personality.

And his mind does not leap forward and take satisfaction in them, fix on them or make free with them. So in other words, he does not identify with them. He doesn't identify with the sense desire, identify with the ill will, identify with the cruelty, identify with any kind of form, or with, in that sense, the body, or with the personality, the sense of self. He lets go of identifying with that, let's go of that conceit, or that 'I am'. And he does. But when he considers renunciation, the renunciation here is nekkhamma, essentially is renouncing any sense of identification or connection with the sensual pleasures, connection with the five aggregates, connection with the persistence of personality, connection with any kind of mental state that arises. Just completely disidentifying with it, but specifically

it's sensual pleasures in that context, because renunciation is part of right intention, that is that nekkhamma. So when it does leap forward, whatever it is, the sense experience or whatever it might be, and the mind leaps forward to it and takes satisfaction in it, so it enjoys it, it has the experience, understands it, fixes on it and then makes free with it, and he gets this thought: well said, well developed, well raised up, well freed and disconnected from sense desires. So if you have the intention of renouncing, the intention of renunciation, then even while enjoying or even while experiencing that, you notice it, use the six R's and disidentify with that process by disconnecting with that. And by disidentifying you then are freed from the corruptions, freed from vexations and fevers.

So when it comes to ill will, when it comes to aversion, you replace that with loving kindness. When it comes to the cruelty, you replace that with compassion. When it comes to identifying with forms, understanding it with wisdom, seeing the impermanence of that, seeing the impersonal nature of that, and not holding on to it. And the same with personality or personality view. Whenever you identify with some sense of feeling or perception or cognition or intention, notice that and use a six R's process to let it go. Five bases of deliverance. Here the teacher or respected fellow disciple teaches a monk Dhamma, and as he receives the teaching he gains a grasp of both the spirit and the letter of the teaching. At this, joy arises in him, and from this joy, delight, and by this delight his senses are calmed. He feels happiness as a result, and with this happiness his mind is established.

So in other words, when you have the teaching, when somebody teaches you the practice, somebody teaches you meditation or the jhana practice, the six R's process, you understand it. You go back to the suttas, you understand the letter of the teaching as well as the practicalities, the spirit of that and how to apply it, the meaning behind that informed by the practice. And as you keep doing that, there is this joy that arises, which is the pamojja, this experience of, you're really enjoying this process. You see some kind of development happening, you see some kind of improvement happening, and you take delight in that. And from there arises that piti, that joy, that rapture. And from there the tranquility arises, which is to say you have a tranquilizing of formations, where you're no longer identified with the senses, because you see how this Dhamma can lead you away from identifying with the senses and lead to an experience of the jhanas in which you have the joy, in which you have the rapture, you have the sukha and that happiness and that tranquility.

With that sukha the mind becomes collected, and so the mind is established. He has not heard it thus, but in the course of teaching Dhamma to others he has learned it by heart as he has heard it. So somebody who is teaching the Dhamma teaches themselves. Take the case of Kemaka in the Kemaka Sutta. Just briefly, in that sutta he says that he is not an arahant, and that's the reason why: because he understands that there is still conceit present in him. But then, as he teaches the Dhamma, as he's giving the discourse on the five aggregates and letting go of the underlying tendency to conceit for them,

he becomes an arahant. He frees his mind completely, as well as the minds of others. Or, as he is chanting the Dhamma, which is to say chanting the Pali text or whatever it might be, one then experiences different factors: the faith and so on, the joy, the tranquility, and the happiness and the collectedness. Or when he applies his mind to the Dhamma, thinks and ponders over it, and focuses attention on it. So, in other words, when you think about certain concepts of the Dhamma and you reflect on them to the point that it doesn't cause you restlessness. So that's important to note: you can continue to reflect and analyze till the mind becomes very restless, but there's no point in doing that. Just understand it in terms of your intuition: applying the mind to a concept, and then waiting for the mind to see how it understands that concept, instead of actively thinking about it and identifying with that thinking process. And so the mind collects its attention around that and has some kind of insight. Or when he has properly grasped some

So these five perceptions arise actually at the level of infinite consciousness. When you see the arising and passing away of consciousness, you are seeing right there and then impermanence. When you start to see it and it starts to get tiresome, you're seeing it right there and then, and the suffering and the pain of seeing this. When you see that there is no controller here, you see that that also is impersonal, that there is no underlying self in this process.

Because of that you completely abandon it, and you come to this level of equanimity which leads to dispassion, that you experience later on through the process of the eighth jhana and so on. So this can also happen when you're just reflecting, or just seeing the arising and passing away of feeling, of sensations, arising and passing away of any of the five aggregates. You notice it, you observe it, you don't think about it or reflect on it; you notice it in the moment as it arises and passes away. By doing so you get a deep understanding of impermanence, and you understand that there's no worth in holding on to it. You see the dukkha, and seeing that, you then understand that there is no self present in any of the five aggregates, and so you see the impersonal nature of conditioned reality. Because of that you abandon any craving for it, abandon any identification with it, and there arises this dispassion for it. From that dispassion then comes that liberation, that understanding, that nibbana experience, and then the understanding that there was a nibbana experience.

And so there is a review process where one sees if one becomes an arahant, that the taints are completely destroyed and what had to be done has been done; where it is destroyed there is no more being. These are the sets of five things which were perfectly proclaimed by the Blessed One. Does anybody have any questions or comments? Yes, if I may. You said that if there is no hindrance present one is in jhana, could that mean that a worldling always has some form of hindrance present, because they don't experience jhanas, so they have hindrances basically 24/7?

In some form or another. Yeah, they would have it. They have a mind that is either having some kind of desire for something, some craving for existence, craving for sensual pleasures. They might have restlessness present, or they might have sloth and torpor present. They might have doubt present, or they might just have ill will in the form of annoyance or irritation. So one who is a worldling is always pulled to and fro by these different hindrances. So a person who does attain jhana is free from them for the duration of that jhana. Now, as one starts to become acquainted with the Dhamma and actually starts to cultivate the different perfections, the parameters, like having generosity, having loving kindness, having equanimity, and so on, they start to let go of these hindrances, and they start to cultivate a mind that is more suitable for meditation, and then they can experience jhana.

So the reason, of course, as you know, the hindrances arise because they don't really take the moral precepts, or they have no real inclination to do so. But as soon as you commit to taking the precepts, you start to have the opportunity to follow those precepts. Then the mind gets calmer and calmer and is more prone towards jhana. Thank you. And maybe as a follow-up question: when does one produce bright kamma? When keeping the precepts, is there a permanent background of wanting to keep them, or is it only produced when there is a decision to be made that entails either breaking or keeping the precepts? Is it like a permanent thing, or only when choices and intention come into play, so to speak? Yeah, that's the thing about the kamma, because it can arise where

as soon as you make the intention there is that good kamma, there is that wholesome state of mind. But also, by taking the choice and making the choice of applying the precepts, meaning maintaining them, also produces the good kamma, the bright kamma. So it can be the same, and the effect of that can be seen at another point in time. It can happen right immediately, or it can happen at a subsequent time. So it can't be said exactly when, and whether it's permanent or not, because kamma itself is impermanent, as you know. So you will feel the effects of it in some way or another, whether it's just an uplifted mind throughout the day or, if you deepen your practice, a mind that is prone towards jhana. Thank you.

Hi, Delson. It's a little bit of a follow-up to Sal's questions. Like, something, there must be a linkage between the three poisons and these hindrances. So, yeah, poisons as, like, anger. I mean, I only know in Pali lobha, dosa and moha, right? So most of the time, as a normal person, it's like we are living in, with the delusions, so, which is, my understanding is that can be translating to sloth and torpor and restlessness as an equivalent of the delusion. Is mine, how can I translate that, right? You're on the right track, continue. I think that's all I can go for now. Well, let's explore it, think about it, reflect on yes. Yeah, right, so you're saying now sloth and torpor and doubt

yeah, in relation to delusion, right? What about the other two? Now, the other two, of course, it's your wanting, right? That would be the lobha. It's the greed, and in the aversion, it's related to it. But as you practice, what I'm trying to clarify in my mind is, as you practice more and more, at least the other two poisons are very noticeable. You can get it. However, this delusion is harder to, because, like you,

unless the mindfulness comes in and rescues it, it's hard to notice. So, but when you are mindful, then you are not so much of a jhana, you are not in the jhana, but although you can experience that these are not really present, or can you say that in that time you are absolutely, maybe, in first jhana or so, right? It's this, it's yourself, you don't have these three poisons present in you. So since you were making that connection, I'll just clarify for everyone so that they understand. So delusion isn't related to that sloth and torpor and doubt as you said. The greed, which is the lobha, I think that's the one that you're referring to, so that is the sensual craving, the craving, and the restlessness that's present there. Then the hatred, which is dosa, which is the

ill will, the aversion. So the craving, meaning the wanting of that, is related to the greed, and the restlessness is related to the greed, but the ill will is rooted in hatred, is rooted in that anger and hatred. So that's the understanding. Now, to the extent that somebody who hasn't practiced or has no knowledge of this, they're always in some way or another rooted in one of these three. And how do you identify when you are, let's say, in delusion, or the mind isn't doing it is definitely using mindfulness?

And it's definitely understanding it through the attention rooted in reality. So coming back, you're seeing everything that is conditioned as impermanent. So any experience, like right now as I'm speaking to you, you're hearing my voice, that is impermanent. Every moment of that is impermanent; it gives rise to another moment, and so on and so forth. It is dependent upon different causes and conditions: first, my formations to express, where there's an intention to speak, then that gives rise to the interpretation in the mind, and then the actual speech, and that gives rise to you hearing it and how you interpret it, and so on and so forth. You're starting to break down the process in that way. You have to use attention rooted in reality to see it that way and not hold on to anything. This is very important. So that dukkha aspect arises when someone holds on to and identifies it, when someone has that sense of not understanding anatta. So in anything that is happening, just observe it without any attachment, observe it without any projection.

When you do that, then there won't be any delusion present, because that observation is true mindfulness. It's a very simple and effective and easy mindfulness, so you make the intention to just watch things as they are without any involvement. Thank you, that's all I have. A question? Yes. I'm not having a question. How long? Sorry, put that to deliver this. I think it was a long time. My question is about the personality view that is laid off as part of the first three fetters, and the difference between the conceits

which is laid off at a final fruition. Could you explain the difference between the two? Yes. So one is actually an intellectual understanding, and the other is the experiential understanding, just to put it simply. Now, on that, I will say that the personality view, or the belief in a personal self, is basically taking any of these five aggregates as self, or identifying with any of them as a personal self. There are in total 20 different kinds of personal self view, which is the five aggregates divided by the four kinds of view. So there is the understanding that they are equated with the five aggregates, that the five aggregates are within them, or they arise from the five aggregates, or they are separate from the five aggregates. There's that self, that sense of self, but this is eradicated, especially when you start to see the impersonal nature of things, in the sixth jhana, in infinite consciousness, seeing the impersonal nature. When you have the nibbana experience, you realize that there was no self that experienced it. In fact, you had that

nirodha experience, the cessation of complete identity, the cessation of suffering, in that nirodha experience. And then when it came up, the experience of post-cessation, you saw that there was no self there. It all arose, and a self was superimposed by the mind that identifies. So from there you have the understanding that there is no underlying self, there's no cosmic soul or impermanent self there. But because the mind has been habituated to equating things as I, and the world as me, and you as I am, and I exist, and so you exist, and so on and so forth, having this sense of I am better than someone, or I am lower than someone, or an equal to someone, all of that is the I am. I am is that conceit. That conceit comes from the word mana, which is to measure. So even though you know that there is no personal self there, there is this habitual tendency to continue to act in a way that as if you are a self

So even though you have let go of the views that any of the five aggregates are self or related to self, there's still behavior there rooted in that kind of thinking, in that kind of understanding. So when you let go of that, and you disidentify, no longer identify with any of those processes, then you let go of conceit. You can still use the words like I, me, and mine, and so on, but you're not really going to say it because you actually believe it, in the sense that you experience it in that way. You say it for conventional purposes, in terms of identifying that, you know, my name is so and so, to somebody when you're introducing yourself, and so on and so on. But you don't really have any more that belief in that personal self, and that experience rooted in that belief of personal self. So, coming back to my initial statement with that explanation, the sakkaya ditthi is an intellectual letting go, letting go of the intellectual understanding, which means that you no longer can subscribe to the idea of a soul

subscribe to the idea of a permanent self. The other side is experiencing that fully and understanding it, and then letting that go, and then finally acting or behaving in a way that is no longer rooted in conceit. Does anybody have any other questions? Hi, Delson. Just following up on the experiential experience and the intellectual understanding of conceit, I would like to understand further. Is it possibly not on a meditation level, but in the journey of life or searching or full experiences, that there is the course level on insights of the three characteristics, which is not on a momentary level but on an understanding level? That we can see there are a lot of people who have been

possibly going through different journeys that they have. They have kind of that possible, but it's not continuous, so I am... it's not a continuous lifting of that concept as you have explained, that habitual, the habitual inbuilt concept is always working with our inheritance. So I would like you to explain a little bit, because we have seen a lot of very... what is this, they were aware or enlightened, or I mean, from history, from different knowledge that passed on, even not from the Buddhist Dhamma but from books, from other people who have their insights of understanding. How does that process work for, instead of meditation? I understand our prep meditation process, correct me if I'm not right, that helps us to move from the causal level to a momentary level. But how do we see that process going? How do we able to

find it in daily life, that understanding into my step of, a more able to, because it's so very often we are lost. So, yeah, in daily life. So you have to understand, go ahead. All right, yes, please. I'm done, I'm finished with my expression. So you have to understand that there is this concept of enlightenment or awakening in other traditions, of course, and other traditions talk about this idea of understanding that they are not the ego, they are not the personal self. But then they also identify more often than not with certain kinds of cosmic ideas, like, you know, in certain traditions they have the idea of a brahman, which is basically like a super consciousness that is one and the same with the entire universe. There's still an idea present that I am one with the universe. Or even if they don't have that idea, they understand they still have some kind of identification with

the process, and whatever their practice is, there will still be conceit, and there will still be some kind of understanding of identification with one or more of the five aggregates still present. So the uniqueness of the Dhamma is that it's looking at it from all angles. If you go back to the Brahmajala Sutta, I think that's DN 1, Digha Nikaya 1, but that goes through the different types of views that arise, dependent on people's experiences

and some people attach to a perception of an experience, some people attach to a feeling of an experience, some people attach to the intention, and so on and so forth, and they create all kinds of views related to that. These are all the different wrong views, because they lead to identifying, and they lead to further rebirth, not only in every moment, because they act from that sense of understanding and therefore continue to create habitual patterns, continue to create situations for themselves, instead of letting go and abandoning all views. I think abandoning all self-views. So that's one understanding. Secondly, the understanding that the five aggregates are not self, the understanding on the intellectual level, but there's also that doubt, and there's also the attachment to the rites and rituals that have to be let go of, to consider one to be a stream enterer, to be a sotapanna. So in that sense the path is essentially starting with the faith in the Buddha, faith in the Dhamma, faith in Sangha

with that openness of mind, and saying, let me try this. That faith further develops into conviction, into seeing this as something that can work for yourself. And then when you start looking at the path and realize that this is the path that can lead to nirvana through your own experience, then that destroys that third fetter of rites and attachment to rites and rituals. The thing about it is, stream entry can happen even if you don't have a cessation experience, right? It can happen when you just understand

that intellectual seeing of no self present, no permanent self present in any of the five aggregates, but it is steeped, or it is situated, or it is rooted in the experience or practice of the Dhamma, which means you continue to follow the precepts, you continue to have right intention, you continue to have right mindfulness, you continue to meditate, and thereby all of this leads to the fruition of the experience of seeing not self in things, seeing not self in conditioned reality. And how do you do this in daily life? That's the other question that you have. You have to see it as an opportunity in every moment

where, let's say, you're conversing with somebody, you're listening to my voice right now. Every moment, have the awareness and the attention. See this as an impersonal process: who is listening, who is the one speaking, who is the one interpreting, how is this process arising, is there self present there, or is it happening because of causes and conditions? But in that process, don't identify with the thinking, and then further analyze and reflect. Rather, just observe with that question in mind, and wait for the mind to bring up the answers in relation to seeing that this is an impersonal process. Does that make sense? Yes, yes, certainly, yes, yeah. Just... we're taking every chance of watching, again, observing, not that was the habitual tendency that we get ourselves in there already while we are in any experience. Now it's the practice of, again, the practice of observation that we have to always be able to apply, instead of already indulged in it or getting into the situation

Yeah, that's definitely better, practice for daily activities. That's, yeah, my question was to that understanding of that experience of that conceit. In there, has to the experience of that conceit that certainly is experiencing after the activities of the reflection, but during it, if we are able to step back, that means that we are lifting that conceit, we are, we are, which we are slowly moving away from it. Is that what we will be, what we are doing, and what we will be? How does that experiential

Experience that is my question, of that conceit being, really, not all the time on our hunt, but at certain points of the time that we are able to see it is right there and we are out of there. How can you give an example of how that experience would be in that sense? Yeah, I'm not expecting, like, the whole... do you understand my question? Sorry. Yes, yes, I understand. So that experience of no conceit, you want to know what that feels like, what is the experience like? That's basically what you want to know? Yes. So when you have a conversation with somebody, when you are listening to somebody, whatever activity it is, but let's use the example of having a conversation. And when you're conversing with someone, usually what's happening in one who has conceit is that they're not fully listening, because when the person is speaking the mind starts to create all kinds of concepts around what is being spoken, and immediately is thinking of a response to what is being said rather than fully listening. This conceptualization

this process of looking for an answer to what is being said, or looking for a response to what is being said, is where the conceit is rooted. Meaning it's where the sense of 'I am' says, so I need to project onto this my ideas of what is being said, or I need to respond with my ideas of how I feel about this or how I think about this. But if there is no conceit, you fully listen without making any kind of judgments, any kind of associations, any kind of proliferation around what is being heard. Now expand that to all experience, whether you're seeing something, whether you're tasting something, whether you're smelling something, or whether a thought arises in the mind. That thought is not yours, it arose, but there's no further proliferation in that thought. That is the non-proliferation

which is another attribute of nibbana. So whenever there's no sense of launching into projecting all of these ideas around something, around an experience, that is where there is no conceit. Does that make sense? Yeah, yes, yes, certainly. Yes. Well, thank you. Yeah, it gives me a better, like, better depth into that understanding. Well, thank you, thank you very much. You're welcome. Wait a few more seconds, see if anybody has any last questions. Actually, yes, because this strikes a chord with me, what you just explained to Helen, because I often drop in the mode, so to speak, of seeing things impersonally, but I've noticed that

it seems like when there are no thoughts, no proliferation, exactly like you said, present, then in some way it is more difficult for me to grasp what is being said. I'm not sure why that is or how I should deal with it, because there are no thoughts, no associations, no concepts. I'm just purely listening, but that makes it more difficult to retain what is being said by the other person, somehow, and I don't understand why. So there I would say that one needs to just try to pay more attention to what is being said, rather than trying to come up with an answer, trying to pay attention through coming up with an answer.

So when there's no projections, there's no associations, there's no thoughts, you're hearing somebody speak, what happens then? Well, what I'm trying to say is that I just hear the words. It's like the meaning of the words is starting to disappear. So I do hear the words, but there are no associations or concepts, so it makes it harder for me to really understand what is being said, because it starts to change into a flow of words. Yeah

Yeah, so there you have to come back to the interpretation of the words and allow the mind to come up with how it responds to it. So it's about not identifying with the thinking process that might arise after listening to the words also. So even while you're listening, if there's nothing going on, give it some time, give it a few moments, to a few seconds, to just let the mind go back to what was said. If you're able to... I mean, they can come to a point where you're listening to the words and you completely forget what the person might have said, but more often than not you can probably just listen to what they said without adding anything on to it, just purely listening to the words, waiting a few moments, and then allowing the mind to come up with the response to whatever it is that is being said, if it's a question or if they're wondering something, or whatever it might be.

So essentially what happens is, because there are no associations and there are no concepts and things like that, you are actually fully listening. But the difference here is, it seems like it's slowed down in terms of what you want to respond with, because there's a little bit of a pause, a little bit of a gap, whereas if you had associations, you had an answer already when you're listening to what's being said. Like even half a second before the person finishes their sentence, you immediately know what you're going to respond with. That's all well and good, but in that process it causes conceit. It causes the mind to proliferate further. But if you take that pause and stay

stay more aware of that pause and wait for a response to come, because a response will come. It's not like the sound comes and there's nothing there, unless you go into a meditative state and you're no longer listening at all. But you just allow the mind to interpret what's happening on its own, so to speak, and you will get some kind of response to express. Okay, yes, that makes sense. So it might also be that I just enter into a deep meditative state, that I'm not really

dealing with the other person anymore, but I'm just going into quiet mind or something. Yeah. Okay, thank you, that makes sense. I will work with that. Thank you. Yeah, that's the same thing I have, same questions I have in my mind lately. I noticed that a lot, especially in the Dhamma talk times, trying to listen to the Dhamma talk, but after a while I just can't think about the wording, the meaning, and everything behind it. All you do is hearing it, disappearing. It's just that, that's it. So I guess it's just more and more understanding of why this feather is very hard to

you know um i don't want to say get rid of but that's what yes i'm not very pretty but you want to definitely get rid of it i mean you want to have the cultivated intention of getting rid of it but it reminds me again back to the malunkia putta sutta or the bhaiya sutta goes back to that same thing right in the hearing right there is only the heard so there's no self or sense of here or present so whatever is happening just in that sense you need to have let's say for lack of a better word trust in the sense faculties that they will be able to express the way that they're supposed to express there might be times when you get into a meditative state while you're doing the dishes or you're driving a car or you're on um you know you're writing an email or whatever it might be you get into a meditative meditative state and somehow your mind is able to do whatever it needs to do without you having to be there for it to do it

There are two sides to that. There is the unawareness, where everything is on autopilot, but there is the relaxing of control, the relaxing of the sense of control, and quote-unquote trusting in the process and observing. So that observing without the observer, just watching without the involved. I mean, this is getting into some really kind of nuances and subtleties, but I just hope you're able to grasp what is being said here. Essentially what I'm saying is, observing without any involvement really means seeing and experiencing what is being experienced, and that's it, just having the experience, and that's it. Now, of course, for practical purposes, when it comes to listening to words and things like that, then there is some attention needed, where you wait for a response the mind comes up with, and then you express it. So it's always dependent upon the situation, but on a general scope of things, what I'm saying is just the experience and nothing else. That is where it's void of any conceit.

Thank you. Hi Delson, I just have one question regarding the Digha Nikaya, when you mentioned the 62 wrong views. It is just the way I see it. If there is a wrong view, probably in everyday life or worldly, there's a lot of wrong view even before practicing the path, and hopefully less after that. But with any wrong view, I think with the mind, when you try to expand it, you're able to recognize the tension that the wrong view can cause because of the hindrance, right? Because when you interact with other people, if you have a wrong view about something, it's usually come up. I'm not sure if I understand, right? It's hard to describe. No, you're on the right track.

No, it makes a lot of sense what you're saying, because going back to the practical aspect of that, when some kind of wrong view arises, in the way of identifying with some kind of process, there is still that subtle tension that you can recognize. So that tension is the form of craving or identification or aversion or whatever it might be, taking something personal. There it manifests in that kind of tension. Thank you. I didn't want to interrupt. Did you have more to say? Oh no, no, no. Um, yeah, I think that's it. I think that makes a lot more sense, because a lot of our practice when we apply it to daily life, I start to notice, you know, like, if there is tension coming up, there there must be a sort of self-identification or a sort of wrong view that I have.

Essentially, coming back to that, coming back to the basics of seeing any tension, seeing any kind of discomfort or anything in the way of pain or some kind of symptom that causes the mind to hold on to it, hold on to the experience. So, going back to that same explanation: before the experience itself is just the experience. So, having any kind of attachment to it, any kind of involvement or personalizing it, is where one needs to see if that's happening. If that's what's happening, where one is saying, "Okay, this experience is affecting me," or "I am experiencing it," instead of seeing it just as an experience, just as a pure experience, and nothing more, nothing added to it, nothing taken away from it, just the experience. As soon as you have that eye in relation to that experience...

Then you know that there's conceived present, so identify that, recognize that, let that go. Let's share some merit. May suffering ones be suffering free, and the fear-struck be fearless. May the grieving shed our grief, and may all beings find relief. May all beings share this merit that we have thus acquired for the acquisitions of all kinds of happiness. May beings inhabiting space and earth, Devas and Nagas of mighty power, share this merit of ours. May they long protect the Buddha's dispensation.