Day-8 QA - Online 10-day Retreat (Nov-17) with Delson Armstrong

Thank you. Greetings. In today's talk, there was a mention of rebirth. I wanted to clarify that I heard correctly. I played it over a few times and I still wasn't really certain, but I think you were saying that the rebirth isn't determined by a choice of a soul or some divine aspect. You were saying that that was not the case. Is that correct? Yeah, that's right. So just to give you a little more detail into that, what I'm saying is, in that regard, consciousness is not something that is permanent. It's not something that's an eternal soul or something like that. Within the Buddhist understanding, consciousness is dependent upon experience, whether that is the contact that arises, the feeling that arises, the perception that arises, or just the understanding of this mentality and materiality, this mind and body. And so if you look at one of the explanations of dependent origination, it is said that consciousness conditions mentality materiality, and having then become established in mentality materiality, consciousness is then conditioned by mentality materiality.

which means that it is conditioned by the sensory experiences that might arise in the way of our five physical senses and our six mental senses. When it comes to the process of rebirth in the Buddhist understanding, what happens is, at the point of dissolution of the body, there are formations that start to... formations are always active. This is one thing we must understand. At this point in time, in this moment, there are different formations arising and passing away, and depending upon what formations arise and pass away, so too will certain consciousnesses arise and pass away, and so on and so forth. So at the point of death, what happens is these consciousnesses, these formations, will create certain emotions, or they will create certain sensory experiences within the mind. So this is all happening at the process of mental contact.

There is the idea that there are bardos, from the Tibetan Buddhist idea of different levels of bardos, intermediary points between this life and the next life. We can take that into account, to the extent that this is all happening in the mind. These are experiences that are happening at the mental level, and so whatever experiences are arising, where there might be memories of this life or another life, or there might be regrets or craving that might arise, if there is craving that attaches to that regret or craving, or that attaches to that imagery, or anything that is produced by those formations through that craving and the intention

to attach to those formations, to those images, a new consciousness is driven forward, which will then link with a new mentality and materiality if it's within the human realm, or a new mentality if it's within the realm of jhanas and so forth. It spontaneously links with it at the point of conception. And then at that point, sorry, there was a disturbance. So at that point, when that consciousness links with that new mentality and materiality, there is then that conception within the human birth, and when that fetus is being developed, at that point there are multiple arisings and passing away of consciousness

in the development of that fetus. And so this is where the being, the bhava, is being created, where you have the accumulation of tendencies brought on by the formations that are carried forward by the first consciousness, if you will, that was rooted in the mentality materiality during conception. So with this understanding, you see that there is in no way an unchanging, everlasting consciousness that transmigrates from life to life and takes rebirth. It is not the same consciousness. It is multiple consciousnesses, even within the womb in a human birth or before a human birth, and then when there is birth, there is a new arising of consciousness, and then the whole thing continues on until, at a certain point, when you become an arahant

when you have the attainment of an arahant, in the case of parinibbana, there is no formation that is arising in which the consciousness... there is a consciousness that will link with that formation and produce rebirth. Even in the case of the life of that arahant, from full awakening onwards, there is no consciousness becoming established into bhava and then creating a new rebirth. It is all dissipating when it arises, and it dissipates without any attachment, without any craving, without any identification. And so this translates to even in parinibbana, where there is the example of Vakkali, who, as an arahant, when he passed away from taking the knife, as it said in that sutta, there was a black smoke around Vakkali's corpse, and the Buddha explained that this black smoke was Mara looking for the consciousness of Vakkali, but unable to find it, because there was no intention driven forward that drove out a new consciousness that could then link with a new rebirth, link with a new mentality materiality, through our new rebirth

and so, because of that, he had extinguished that consciousness right there and then, along with the rest of the five aggregates, at the point of parinibbana. Thank you. I failed to mention earlier that a significant adjustment to my daily living has been that I'm eating naturally less food. I'm not a big eater to begin with, but my appetite is minimal and I'm completely satisfied. That's very good. That's very good. So you're starting to become more aware of your needs of the body, rather than allowing craving for food to determine how much you eat, and just eating as much as the body requires. At least that's how I understand it. Yes. It's easy to overdo it, and I noticed that I can feel that as: okay, I could have left that one thing back on the plate. Okay. I have a blessing. Yes.

When the zygote forms between the fusion of the sperm and the egg, so actually it is the biological component of that. And when does the consciousness and its concomitants enter? Do they enter, or, because in some yogic traditions they have a number of days that they say between these many days, it's pretty much just biological, and then after these many days it will enter? And if they have some calculation over it, is it true? Or what about, because we do accumulate qualities of the parents, right? If this consciousness is not, if it's a continuing one, and it is not actually genetics, maybe a combination of genetics is in one, or is it epigenetics?

So they're confused so much. So one thing you have to understand is, as soon as that consciousness takes links, it happens during the fusion of the sperm and the egg. So consciousness begins right there and then, when there is mother and father, when there is a fertile womb and there is a sperm that then joins with that egg and there is then that creation of life, so to speak. That is where that new consciousness will then establish itself. But at the point of establishing itself, it doesn't continue on. It then dissipates, and a new consciousness arises through that process of conception.

So the idea that it takes a few days and all of that, I know that in certain Buddhist traditions there is the idea that for like 49 days there is no birth happening and there's an intermediary period. It really depends upon what kind of understanding you subscribe to. As far as I know, and I have seen in the Theravada Buddhist tradition and in the suttas, it's always talking about spontaneous rebirth. So the understanding is that the intermediary phases that are happening with relation to, say, a bardo, as I said in the Tibetan tradition, or this intermediary phase between death and the next rebirth, is all happening in the mentality or in the mind of the being.

while they are passing away, just before they pass away, and when I say before they pass away, just before the new consciousness takes root with that formation, and then, you know, is extinct, that body is extinguished, or the four aggregates are extinguished, but that consciousness continues to evolve beyond that body, and with those new formations they then take root in the new mentality materiality at the point when the conception happens. As you were talking about now, in relation to genetics and epigenetics, the formations that are then taken and carried through determine what sort of parents, in terms of the formations, that person or that new being will be introduced to. And so along with that is the genetics of certain dispositions, mentally, emotionally, as well as physically, and that is related to karma. The formations, remember, are carriers of karma, so karma is interwoven within the genetics that the formations take root into, to that particular being. And then the epigenetics in relation to other genes either arising or being switched off, depending upon choices that that new being makes in that life.

So the choices that that being makes determine whether certain genes turn on or off. And so there is always choice involved in that regard, in every single moment. And so it's not a predetermined thing. That being, though they might inherit a certain disease, it could be because of just pure genetics and pure imbalances within the body. But it could also be an element of kamma. As I said, kamma is so intricate that it is always interwoven with all of these different aspects of existence.

So even genetics can be changed to a certain extent based on choices that that being makes. Yeah. So this makes sense. So if this is it, where does the consciousness... wait. In one of Bhikkhu Bodhi's transit lectures that I listened to, he says the consciousness, even during the fusion, it's not there. So do they wait somewhere? Is there a room? Is there a place that they, depending on the mental activities you said, yeah? That waiting place would be... it would be in the mental sphere, if you will. It will be a mental phenomenon in the mentality of the previous life.

Oh, and that depends on the right time, depending on the kamma. Yes, exactly, example. Okay, thank you, thank you so much for that question, Cynthia. I was wanting to ask the same thing actually, and thank you all for your practice that you're doing. I had another question that was related in some ways. How does things like abortion relate to precepts, for example, and does that boil down to... yeah, yeah. Well, you know, if a couple decides that the best thing for them to do would be to get an abortion, how is that going to affect their mindfulness and their ability to walk the path if they are choosing that? It's the necessary steps, you know. I believe that, as some in certain situations, you know, this is the best thing. And yeah, that's personal. But yeah, yeah. So the taking of life in general, taking of life, is breaking the precept intentionally, taking that life. So in that process of abortion, that couple has

intentionally taken away the possibility of that life to continue, so that is definitely breaking a precept that would affect their mindfulness. What they do is their kamma. That is their intention of taking that life, and perhaps that particular fetus, when that consciousness was infused with that fetus. That was their kamma as well, to experience that, and then that will determine their next set of rebirths. So yes, in short, the taking away of that life through abortion is, in general terms, breaking the precept of intentionally killing a being.

It's interesting, though, because if the person's or couple's intention is coming from a good and wholesome place, where they believe it's the best decision for them and, you know, for this being not to come into life, and I find it's also interesting, the idea that it's the consciousness that is to be aborted. Can you expand on that at all? Do you have any kind of thoughts on how the score is being kept, how the strict score is being kept?" Well, it's just a matter of balancing out kamma, right? It's a matter of that individual's personal kamma. You cannot comment on why or how that happened. It's just a matter of understanding that certain causes and conditions cause that event to arise, in terms of the couple and their intention.

If it's rooted in wholesomeness, I could see in no way that if an intention is rooted in wholesomeness, it would allow for the intention of killing the being. So you'd have to give me a little more clarity and detail on how you see that as being wholesome. Well, for one example, maybe it's not a couple. Maybe it's a woman who's been violated, and this violation has brought upon her a pregnancy, and she knows that this child will bring recurring pain into her life, and that she will never be able to love the child, due to the fact that she might see her violator, or whatever, and this could lead to abuse to the child, and just a lot of tormentship to her. This is, purely, a hypothetical example, but it could just be one of many that I could think of where the core belief is from a wholesome place. Right, so she will, and this is again based on your hypothesis, or the hypothetical situation that you're talking about?

The intent of killing is still the intent of killing, so there will be kamma to be played out from there. But if her intention was to prevent the harm of that child further, that's a different thing altogether. That's not to say that she will not, it's not our place to judge that. But at the same time, the act of killing is outright the act of killing, with some intention of killing, right there and then. If you kill with a wholesome intention, as you just said, in the sense that she doesn't want that child to continue to be born and then experience a life that will be tormenting, even so, the act of killing itself is still an unwholesome act.

So there will still be karma played out for that reason. And whatever happens with that being happens with that being. If they are aborted and then they take rebirth in a different place, that is their account. Thank you. I have a question. About the Buddha, it was mentioned as a teacher of devas and humans, but I do know one story.

I don't know if it's rooted in the suttas, where an elephant was pacified by the feeling of metta. So does, in some way, the teaching also extend to other beings? So let's say animals in this case? Yes, the practice of radiating brahmaviharas. Yes, of course. When you send out or radiate the brahmaviharas, there is a sense of not only the well-being of the person sending it out, but there is a sense of well-being for the being that is having that radiation of metta go to them. So it can be animals, it can be devas, it can be nagas, it can be human beings, it can even be beings in the realm of the hungry ghosts or the hell realms. When you send out compassion, for example, when you are sending it in all directions, you can have the intention of sending it off to all the devas, to all the brahmas

to all the realms above as well as below which is to say that you want to send it to the animal realm you want to send it to the hungry ghost realm you want to send it to the beings that are suffering uh in the various hell realms as well i see um can i uh if i just have a follow-up question it does um well i i'm not i don't think it applies to buddhism but uh other traditions do have where a saint might preach to the birds or something does it does this happen at all or um or not

I wouldn't know exactly if it's in the suttas or if it's in the commentarial tradition, where maybe it was preached to, let's say, animals or the birds. As far as I know, when it comes to the tradition, a naga or an animal and such cannot take the going forth and become a monk, for example. But the idea that if there is an animal passing by and listening to a Dhamma talk or a discourse, whether it's by the Buddha or any of the monks or, you know, even in the present time, in my mind it would seem that the discourse itself, while it may not be understandable to the animal, the fact that it is pure, it's coming from purity, which is then a sound that reflects in that being's mentality and materiality, creating certain formations that originated from having listened to that Dhamma. It is quite possible that those formations, if they start to get strengthened through next life to the next life, provide the opportunity to listen more to the Dhamma, whether that animal then becomes a human or whatever it might be.

There is the opportunity for them to develop within the Dhamma. On the other side of that, that animal was an animal for whatever reason, because of its karma, but the fact that it came across being able to listen to a Dhamma talk or its discourse was a fruit of its previous actions. Maybe it did something in a lifetime or eons ago, or whatever it might be, that is now coming to fruition, where they are listening to the discourse. And then that provides them the ability to have more formation strengthened within the Dhamma, or rooted in the Dhamma, which can provide them with a better rebirth, so to speak.

But again, this is not something I would say is rooted in the suttas. It's coming from the understanding of kamma and formations. So I wouldn't know of any instances, whether it's in the Jataka tales or whether it's in the suttas or the commentarial tradition. You'd have to take a look for yourself. - Thank you, thank you. - Just wanted to say, I thought about this before and I wanted to thank you, Delson, because you're helping my dog have a good rebirth. - And so are you, because you're radiating loving kindness. So obviously your best friend is definitely feeling that.

So we'll wait for a couple more minutes to see if there are any questions, maybe a minute. And if not, we can share merit. So let's just wait and see. Well, if I may, once again: it was mentioned, created eons ago. Maybe this is not the right way of viewing it, but is it more karma or kamma that is created at the moment, or at any instance, that is ever coming to fruition? Or is it in sort of a balance? Do you understand what I am trying to convey? Let me make sure I understand correctly. So you're saying that there's some sort of thing that determines when that kamma will come to fruition? Not exactly. I'm trying to ask if there is a certain amount of kamma

and at any point, let's say a certain amount of kamma is being fulfilled, is the kamma created lesser, equal or greater than the kamma being fulfilled? Or is that even... I don't know if that even makes sense in there? All right, let me explain the process of kamma in just one lifetime. Maybe that will give you some clarity on this. When you have ignorance, conditioning formations, you also have the craving, conditioning formations, because that's bettered by craving and hindered by ignorance and a sense of conceit. That's there when those formations then activate a certain consciousness that will then establish itself in a mentality-materiality, at that point, at that sensory experience, at the point of contact. And then feeling, how one perceives that, will then determine whether there will be future craving and future clinging and future becoming or being.

If at that point of being, one lets go of that craving or lets go of the potential for craving to arise, what they are doing is essentially allowing old kamma to arise but no new kamma, or rather, old kamma to come to fruition with no new karma to arise. But if that being were to crave at that sensory experience, where there is a sense of identification with it and there is a sense of craving, whether it is attachment or aversion, that will then produce or condition the link that comes after that, which is the clinging that creates the sense of being, the accumulation of tendencies, which creates more action, which is rooted from that craving, which then actually creates more kamma, new kamma. So the old kamma is all that arises up until the point of your sensory experiences, up until the point of your thoughts and the mind and the experience of the body.

So anything from formations up until contact and feeling is old kamma. How you react to that will determine whether new kamma is produced from that, or the old kamma is worn away and no new kamma is produced. Now, I also said in relation to thoughts. Thoughts are also kamma. So whenever you are doing the meditation practice, whenever the hindrances arise, that is old kamma. How you respond to that and how you interact with it will determine whether new thoughts will arise, which means new kamma arises.

So every time you do the process of right effort and let go of the hindrance and replace it with a wholesome state of mind, in which inevitably activates the seven enlightenment factors, you are producing no new kamma, which means that every time you are in jhana you are not producing any new kamma. You are only dealing with the old kamma by letting go, and then, by extension, effectively going into jhana and the different elevated states of mind. So this is one way of understanding it. To apply that on the macro level: this is kamma that comes to fruition, let's say, in one lifetime, but how one responds to that kamma in that lifetime determines whether that kamma seed continues to produce new kamma seeds or is just destroyed right there or worn away bit by bit. The thing about kamma is not that, as soon as you have the old kamma, it will just dissipate at contact if you don't do anything with it, if you don't produce any new kamma.

That old kamma will be worn bit by bit, meaning it depends upon the strength of that kamma, depending upon the strength of the formations that carries out that kamma. In the same way, when you look at it in your meditation practice, when you have the hindrances arising, sometimes the hindrances will still remain after you have let go of them. They might come back again; that is still old kamma coming into play. So it's not that once you let go of the kamma you let go of it once and for all. It might be let go in stages until it's let go completely. And in some cases, if the kamma is very minor, having let go of it, not personalizing it, not identifying with it, and not craving with that kamma, will just dissipate right there and then. It depends upon the strength of the kamma in relation to the formations and in relation to the reactions of past choices

as well as reactions or responses in the present choices. That clears things up. Thank you. So I would like to request if Bhante Ananda would please share, Mary. May suffering ones be suffering free, and the fear-struck fearless be. May the grieving shed all grief, and may all beings find relief. May all beings share this merit that we have thus acquired for the acquisition of all kinds of happiness. May beings inhabiting space and earth, devas and nagas of mighty powers, share this merit of ours. May they long protect the Buddha's dispensation. Thank you, Delson. Thank you. Good retreat. Thank you.