Day 7 Dependent Origination Pt 2, BUDDHA PĀDA INSTITUTE, Kalimpong- Delson Armstrong

So yesterday we spoke about dependent origination, and we spoke about the links that have to do with the construction of new karma. So karma is action, karma is activity, karma is intention, and everything from craving to clinging to becoming leads to the birth of new action, and that leads to suffering, to dukkha. We also spoke about feeling. Feeling is part of old karma. So when the Buddha has talked about karma in different suttas, he's talked about old karma and new karma. Old karma is everything that you inherit in every given moment as an experience to be felt and made contact with. This is how the Buddha describes it. So anything that you see, anything that you hear, anything that you smell, taste, touch, or think in the mind is old karma, to be inherited, experienced, and made contact with.

What you choose to do with it will determine whether you have craving towards it, that is to say you identify with it, or whether you cling to it, or whether you become this series of choices from which you act in every given moment. Or, you can use right effort to recognize, anytime the mind is identifying with it, to relax and let go, and bring up a wholesome object, or stay in that equanimity towards that experience.

So now we'll talk about contact, which is a potential. Contact enables the process of feeling to arise. Yesterday we said feeling is anything that you can experience in this world, and is to be perceived as pleasant, unpleasant, or neutral. And so tied to feeling is perception. Perception is the ability to recognize what it is that you're seeing, based and dependent upon what you have learned in your memory, like seeing the color red, hearing a particular music, or tasting a particular flavor, recognizing what it is you're tasting, what it is that you're hearing, what it is that you are seeing. But in order for this to happen, you need what is known as contact. So the Sanskrit for that is Sparsha, or Phassa in Pali.

So what does that mean when we say contact? Contact is the initial trigger point upon which an experience can arise. There are three things that constitute a part of contact. One is the sense base itself. The second is the sense base object. And the third is the corresponding sense-based consciousness, dependent upon the two. So an example of this would be: the eye is the sense base. The color red is the sense base object.

When the photons bounce off of that and hit the retina, there is a corresponding eye consciousness. These three make up the process of eye contact. The ear is the sense base. Hearing Beethoven's Fifth Symphony, or the sound of Beethoven's Fifth Symphony, is the sense base object. When the notes vibrate in the air and make contact with the ear, there is a corresponding ear consciousness.

These three constitute ear contact, right? The smell of chocolate is the sense base object. The nose is the sense base. When the odour molecules make contact with the olfactory bulbs, then at that point there is contact, and dependent upon that, there is the sense-based consciousness, that is nose consciousness, that arises. These three constitute nose contact. There is chocolate cake, and there is the tongue. The tongue is the sense base. Chocolate cake, or the flavour of tasting chocolate cake, the flavour of chocolate, is the sense base object. When it touches the taste buds, there is a corresponding sense-based consciousness that arises. The tongue consciousness, the awareness of that taste, arises. These three constitute tongue contact. The body, external, the skin, let's say, of the body, is the sense base object.

The breeze that's flowing is the sense base object. This is the sense base object, the breeze. When the breeze touches the skin and makes contact, there is a corresponding skin or body consciousness that arises. These three constitute body contact. When there's the mind, that is the sense base, right? When there is a thought, when there is an intention, when there is a feeling of loving-kindness, when there is a hindrance, when there is anything that's happening in the mind, that is the sense base object, that is mind object. When that makes contact with the mind, there arises a corresponding mind consciousness. These three constitute mind contact.

Eye contact gives rise to seeing. Ear contact gives rise to hearing. Nose contact gives rise to smelling. Tongue contact gives rise to tasting. Body contact gives rise to touching, to feeling. And mind contact gives rise to experiencing in the mind, to thinking, to reflecting, to intentionalising, to analysing, whatever you want to call it. So if these three components of any of these contacts were not present, then there cannot be contact.

And the most important, arguably, if you look at it, is really the sense-based consciousness that arises dependent upon the two. So if the eye was damaged, even if the photons are hitting the retina, there can be no corresponding eye consciousness. If the ear base was damaged, and there are vibrations in the air, and it's not being picked up, there can be no corresponding ear consciousness.

If you have COVID, and you lose your sense of smell, even though there's amazing food being cooked, none of that is able to make contact with your nose, and you're not able to have nose contact. Somehow you lose your ability to taste. And if you taste something that's very scrumptious, but there's no possibility of you actually making contact with it, there's no tongue consciousness that arises. If you lose feeling at some point in your arm, and the breeze goes past that, if that sense base is damaged, or there is no corresponding sense base consciousness, there won't be any contact there.

So you need these three in order for some kind of contact to arise. And then when this contact arises, there is a feeling. Now, I mentioned yesterday an interesting scenario where you're watching a movie. You're sitting in the movie theatre and you're watching a movie, and suddenly you see somebody there, and you think back to the last time you saw them in a movie, or it reminds you of a particular situation in your life.

Now your eyes are seeing the film, but your mind is going somewhere else. You're thinking about something else. And then 30 seconds later, something else shows up on the screen, like, wait, what happened? I just missed the last 30 seconds of what I was seeing. My eyes were glued to the screen, but I couldn't make sense of what I just saw in the last 30 seconds. Why is that? Because there was no corresponding eye consciousness there. The eyes were making contact with the screen, but your attention was where your attention was, on what you were remembering, what you were contemplating. Which means that even though the eyes are functional, and the ears are functional to hear what's going on with the dialogue and everything, you're paying attention to what's happening in your mind. And so there is a corresponding mind consciousness that arises, dependent upon the thinking or the thought in the mind.

So what that means is, where your attention goes, there consciousness flows. If I tell you right now to pay attention to this cup, all of your eyes are making contact with this cup, and there is a corresponding eye consciousness that arises. But now I say, pay attention to that statue behind me. Now there is no consciousness that arises dependent upon seeing the cup. There is a consciousness that is arising dependent upon seeing the statue.

So the awareness, the consciousness that we talk about, is dependent upon where your attention is. That is why, when a hindrance arises, your attention goes to the hindrance. It makes absolutely no sense to keep observing that hindrance, to keep observing that pain. What are you going to do by doing that? All you're doing is that your attention is fueling that further hindrance to your eyes, fueling for that pain to continue, and moreover, the aversion to that pain. But what do we do with right effort? We recognize our attention is on a hindrance. That our attention was deviated by that hindrance.

We recognize that. We relax any tightness and tension. And in relaxing, our attention goes away from that hindrance and comes to the mind and body. And then to the smile. Now our attention is on the smile. And then back to our object of meditation. So the corresponding consciousness dependent upon the attention to that hindrance has ceased. And what has arisen is a corresponding awareness dependent upon making contact with loving-kindness, or quiet mind, or radiating equanimity, whatever the object of meditation is. This is to be understood when we say contact. It's not merely that the eye makes connection with whatever is seen, or the ears and so on and so forth. It needs a corresponding awareness, and that is dependent upon where your attention goes.

Your attention is the spotlight on stage. It's the spotlight that shines a light on an object, on a person, on stage. The direction in which that spotlight goes is determined by intention, where you choose to pay attention. So in every given moment you are given a choice: do I pay attention to the wholesome, or do I pay attention to the unwholesome? If my mind is paying attention to the unwholesome, then there is a corresponding consciousness dependent upon that, and also tainted by that. And by being tainted by that, when the feeling arises, there is already an underlying tendency. So if I have a mindset that is rooted in craving and I have an experience, my tendency will be to grab onto that experience, not to want to let it go, and then further cling, and become, and then birth of action.

So how does this contact arise? What is this contact dependent upon? The six sense bases, right? Because we talked about how contact is constituted by these three: the sense base, the sense base object, and the sense base consciousness. So what are the six sense bases? The eyes, the ears, the nose, the tongue, the body, and the mind.

So when we say the eyes, what does that mean? It's this instrument of the eyes. Everything that's part of this eye, whatever components are part of that eye, is the eye base. Same with the ear. Whatever constitutes the different components of the ear constitutes the ear base. Likewise with the nose. Likewise with the tongue. Likewise with the body. Now when we talk about the body, it's a huge thing. It includes the skin. It includes the nervous system. It includes our organs. It includes our skeleton. It includes everything. And so for us to experience contact with the body, it's not just external contact, but it's also internal contact. That's why you have a stomach pain. It's not external, it's internal.

There's still contact being made where you experience a stomach pain, or you experience a headache, a sinus headache, for example, or whatever the corresponding pain is. But this sixth sense base is what makes up your world. The sixth sense base is what makes up the matrix of what it is that you experience. You are imprisoned by the sixth sense bases. You cannot escape the sixth sense bases in the sense that you cannot make your eyes see something beyond what it is capable of seeing.

Likewise with the ears. At a younger age, you're able to hear more frequencies than you can as you grow, because your ears become less sensitive to that, and you lose the ability to hear certain kinds of frequency. This is the process of impermanence. It changes. Things always change. And so the sense bases are always changing. At a certain point, they grow to development.

In the case of the infant, the infant might not be able to see much indeed. For the first few weeks it usually has its eyes closed, it's not seeing much, and when it does have its eyes open it's able to see only a blur of little bit of color and form, if at all. Eventually it starts to make out what's what it's seeing, and eventually it starts to be able to recognize what it is. The same with the other sixth sense bases. They grow to full development, and after a certain age, they start to decline.

This is part of the aging process. There's nothing you can do about it. You can take vitamins, you can take supplements, you could do different kinds of surgery or whatever, but eventually the organs will start to decline. So the six sense bases, they are important now. In the case of humans, we have these sense bases, and we can only see certain levels on the electromagnetic spectrum, so we can only see certain kinds of color. We can only hear certain kinds of vibration, we can smell certain kinds of odors. We can taste certain kinds of tastes. We have the different kinds of flavors, sweet and salty, umami, bitter, whatever it is. We can only feel certain kinds of vibration.

But there are other animals out there who are able to see in ultraviolet that we can't. They're able to hear at longer distances. You think about a dog. A dog's entire world is determined by what it smells and hears. Most animals like that, like a dog or like a mouse, for example, you notice that the way their facial structure is, the nose is very much dominant, and so their world is defined by the matrix of smells. That's how they're able to see or experience reality for them. So reality is, in that sense, subjective, dependent upon how we experience through the sixth sense spaces.

Now, what happens, what gives rise to those sixth sense spaces? It's known as mentality-materiality. Nama-rupa. So mentality is one thing and materiality is another. Name and form. Mind and body. Let's take the simpler approach and understand what body is first. What form is? Rupa. Form is constituted by the four great elements. Earth, water, air, and fire. So that is the solid state of matter, that is the liquid state of matter, that's the gaseous state of matter, and the heat and temperature in the body, that represents the fire element.

So this is what constitutes the body. But the body also makes up the sense bases themselves. In other words, the eye, the ears, the components of the ears, the components of the nose, the tongue, and the body, and even the mind, which is dependent upon the brain to function. They're all made up of solid mass. They're all made up of some or some different degrees, varying degrees, of the four great elements of the states of matter.

So if we didn't have materiality, we wouldn't have the physical sense bases, which act as receivers of the signal that's out there in the world in the form of vibration. That is what the world is beyond the sixth sense bases. It's all just vibration, different varying degrees of vibration. Ultimately, that is what karma is. Everything that we experience is different kinds of vibration.

So in the absolute sense of the world, it is all different kinds of vibrations interacting with one another to create an experience, to create what we consider to be an identity. So this body is made up of vibrations. The sixth sense spaces are made up of vibrations. Everything that you're experiencing is made up of vibrations. What you do out in the world is made up of vibrations, creates vibrations. And so the world is just a pool of differing kinds of vibrations that are happening. And they intersect with one another, they meet with one another, and there certain things happen.

But we interpret all those vibrations as color and form. We interpret those vibrations as sounds, as smells, as tastes, as internal and external pains and pleasure, as thoughts and ideas and concepts and rationalizations. So even the body made up of the four great elements are vibrations. Now, mind, what is mind? What is nama? Mind is made up of five different components. Contact, feeling, perception, intention, and attention.

So contact and feeling, we already talked about that, right? But here what we're talking about is that they are instruments for the purposes of the process of contact to arise, for the purposes of feeling to arise. In the same way that our brain has different kinds of lobes that interpret data, there is, in this sense, the contact instrument, the contact aspect of the mind as a faculty, the feeling aspect of mind as a faculty, the perception aspect of mind as a faculty, through which the process of contact can be made, through which the process of feeling can be experienced, through which the process of perception can be understood.

So the link of contact is the process. The link of feeling and the corresponding perception tied to that feeling is the process, is the experience. But the contact, feeling, and perception in mind, in mentality, is the faculty, is the instrument, right, through which these processes can happen. Then we have intention. Intention is the faculty through which formations can function. If you want to know the quality of your formations, the sankharas understand what your intentions are. So intention here is translated from the word chetana. Here it's really meaning to incline, where the mind inclines. So there is an intention for me to walk from here to the end of the hall. Now that's my intention, that is the faculty of intention. Then I have volition. I decide to move my feet, to walk.

This action happens because of bodily sankharas that allow me to do that. So intention is through which sankharas or formations flow. Attention is dependent upon where we put our intention, and it is through which consciousness flows. So in other words, nama-rupa is essentially the five aggregates. Rupa, form, is the body, is the form aggregate. Through contact, there is feeling, and that is the feeling aggregate. There's perception, that's the perception aggregate. There's intention through which the formations aggregate flows, and there is attention through which the consciousness aggregate flows.

Now, there is an interdependence between name and form and what is known as vinnana. Vinnana means divided knowledge. Why? Because it is consciousness or cognition that is divided by the sixth sense basis. There is the eye consciousness, there is the ear consciousness, there is the nose consciousness, there is the tongue consciousness, there is the body consciousness, and there is the mind consciousness.

But in order for consciousness to flow, it requires nama-rupa. But in order for nama-rupa to function, it requires consciousness. This is where the interdependency is, the vortex of consciousness and mentality-materiality. On a larger scale, when we talk about from lifetime to lifetime, let's simplify it to say from one human birth to the next human birth, what happens is, in one human birth, at the end of that life, as I said, there can be a life review process. And if the inclinations have been, let's say, wholesome, the intentions have been wholesome, then there's a corresponding sankhara that arises dependent upon wanting more of that. Then a consciousness arises dependent upon that. This is known as the patisandhi vinnana.

This is the rebirth-linking consciousness. That consciousness goes out from that body and immediately makes contact with a new nama-rupa. So for life to form, a new human life to form, you need three things. You need to have the mother, that is to say you need to have the ovum, the egg. You need to have the father, that is to say you need to have the sperm. And you need to have the gandhabba, which is the corresponding consciousness from a previous existence.

When these three come together, then life generates. So what is the nama-rupa in this case? The nama-rupa is the ovum and the sperm coming together to create the genetic material that is the best suited for that consciousness to descend into. So that consciousness transfers all of the karmic potentials from that life and even previous lives, and that karma makes an immediate and exact match with the genetic material and the different kinds of gene expressions that are potentially available for that karma to continue.

So that consciousness transfers all the karma and formations into the new nama-rupa, and so at that point life emerges. Then there is the growth of that nama-rupa and the corresponding arising and passing away of various consciousnesses that come and go in the womb. The first consciousness that arises is the patisandhi, the rebirth-linking. As soon as that karma is installed in the new genetic matter, that consciousness ceases and another consciousness arises and passes away, dependent upon what's happening with the fetus. Then eventually that fetus develops into the embryo, and so on. Then after nine or ten months the baby is born. After the baby is born it continues. So now the consciousness arises and passes away dependent upon what the baby is experiencing through the eyes, the ears, the nose, the tongue, the body, and the mind. So this is another way of understanding the dependency or interdependency between consciousness and nama-rupa. In order for that nama-rupa to continue, it requires the gandhabba. It requires that consciousness.

And in order for that consciousness to land and actually function, it requires nama-rupa. So let's say in the case of the procreation of a new human, there is the ovum and there is the sperm, but if there is no corresponding gandhabba, then there is no birth, there is no conception. Now, does that mean it is always required that you need to have that in the womb of the mother? No. What about IVF? It's the same principle. Even in IVF, some IVF procedures can be very successful and some not, and that is dependent upon whether the corresponding consciousness is available for there to be conception.

Now this consciousness, or these consciousnesses, are dependent upon what's known as sankharas, formations. Sankharas. What does that mean? Sankharas means to cook up, to prepare, to percolate, to create, to fabricate. So there are three kinds of main sankharas. There's mental, there's verbal, and there's bodily or physical. When we talk about mental sankharas, they enable you to be able to feel and perceive through any of the six sense spaces. When we talk about verbal sankharas, they allow you to reflect and think about what it is that you're experiencing, which can allow you to break out into speech.

So when you think about something, when you make a conscious effort to think about something, you're engaging the verbal sankharas, the verbal formations. When you breathe in and breathe out, when you walk around, you're engaging the bodily sankharas that allow this process to happen. So these sankharas are also carriers of karma. These sankharas can be likened to synapses in the brain, which when you're born, you are born with a bunch of synapses.

A lot. But as you continue to function in this world, the choices that you make start to prune out those synapses that you're not using. The same way, the choices you make in this world start to strengthen certain kinds of formations while weakening other kinds of formations. And, as being carriers of karma, they can also be likened to genetic expression; that is to say, your behavior and your environment will determine the expression of certain genes, and so certain formations, certain sankharas, will arise dependent on what's happening in the environment and dependent upon how you're behaving in that environment. So if sankharas are rooted in greed, hatred, and delusion, if sankharas are rooted in any kind of craving, conceit, or ignorance, then there is an inclination to make a choice that further strengthens the next arising of sankharas to be further rooted in greed, hatred, and delusion.

So if there is some kind of sankhara that arises that is dependent upon that, then the corresponding consciousness might be tainted, might be stained by one or more of the 16 upakilesas. These upakilesas can be jealousy, greed, hatred, stinginess. It can be contempt. It can be conceit, it can be pride, it can be any number of different kinds of things. This staining, that corresponding consciousness, can then determine the kind of contact that arises and the underlying tendency in the feeling that might arise, causing you to further crave or have aversion towards, cling, and then have habitual tendency towards, from which you act.

But there's always a choice in every moment. Not everything is determined. There is a choice that is dependent upon new information, like the Dhamma, new information like taking the precepts, new information like knowing what is the difference between wholesome and unwholesome. And as that new information is further absorbed and further acted upon, then new synapses grow, new expressions of the genes arise that is dependent upon choices you make. It might be more difficult to choose the wholesome over the unwholesome, but the more you do that, the next corresponding arising of a sankhara will be rooted in that wholesome choice, and you will be weakening any kind of craving, any kind of conceit, any kind of ignorance in that sankhara.

Now, these sankharas, these karmic formations, are dependent upon ignorance, avijja, or vidya. What is avijja? Avijja is not knowing the four noble truths. Now there are different levels of ignorance. There is the ignorance which is you don't know anything about the four noble truths because you never learned about them, right? Can you be blamed for that? No, not necessarily. However, when you start to know about the four noble truths, let's take away the four noble truths. What about knowing the difference between what is good and bad?

You start to learn that. And now the ignorance, there is the lack of mindfulness of what is good and what is bad in every moment. Now, when we talk about the four noble truths, you've learned a little bit of it, let's say, intellectually, and you understand it, and maybe you've even done some practice, right? And you've applied right effort. But now the ignorance is lack of mindfulness, not being able to apply that mindfulness in every given moment to notice what is happening in the mind, how it is reacting and responding to situations, where it's inclining towards. Is it inclining towards greed, hatred, and delusion? Or is it inclining towards the elimination of greed, hatred, and delusion?

So the more mindful you become at the level of feeling, at whatever it is that you're experiencing, the more you're whittling away, the more you're carving out ignorance, bit by bit by bit. The more you see reality as being impermanent, not liable to cause permanent happiness, or liable to at some point cause suffering, and therefore not to be seen as me, mine, or myself, the more you're able to notice reality in this way, the more you whittle away, carve out those links of ignorance.

And eventually that ignorance goes away completely, and it goes away completely when you become an arahant. So what about in the case of an arahant, what is functioning and what is not functioning? Before we continue with that, you also have to understand that there is an undercurrent to these links of dependent origination that are dependent upon and facilitated by what are known as asavas. These are the taints. There's the taint of sensual desire, the taint of existence or the desire for existence, and the taint of ignorance itself. What is the taint of sensual desire? The taint of sensual desire means that it

First of all, let me explain what these taints are, because these taints are what cause further rebirth from one life to the next, continually. So long as these taints are present, they will continue to give rise to further becoming and further birth. So one of the ways I describe the taints is that they are actually viruses.

In the original text of the Mind Without Craving book, in the first draft, I called taints viruses. But this was during the pandemic, and so my editors looked at it and they said, are you really sure you want to call it viruses? Yes, I am. But they changed it. They called them, and then we said, let's call them projections, because they project out this karmic force of sensual desire, or this craving for existence, or this ignorance. But in essence they are viruses. They're viruses in the sense that they infect the mind, they infect the operating system, and if the operating system is infected it cannot function properly. So when we talk about the karmic taint of sensual desire, it is facilitated, it happens, every time we act upon some kind of sensual desire.

And it projects out this momentum of continually wanting more of that sensual experience. Whenever we have craving for existence, whenever we identify with an experience, whenever we identify with this mind and body, it is strengthening that virus of craving for existence. Every time we have lack of mindfulness and our mindfulness slips, then it is adding to the taint or virus of ignorance. So what is the antidote? What is the antivirus? What is the vaccine to prevent the arising of these taints? Ultimately the basis is mindfulness, because if ignorance is dependent upon the three taints, the three taints are interdependent with ignorance.

Every time we have lack of mindfulness, it leads to the mind identifying with an experience. The fact that it identifies with it gives rise to conceit, or comes from conceit. And every time that happens and we have sensual desire, it feeds back into the taint of sensual desire. It feeds back into the taint of desire for existence, some kind of craving for a certain kind of existence. Every time we don't apply right effort, every time we forget to notice what's happening, we're adding to that. So every time we are mindful we are letting go of that taint of ignorance, but the taint of sensual desire goes away completely when you become an anagami, and the taint of craving for existence and the taint of ignorance itself go away completely when you become an arahant. So now when you do become an arahant, do the links of dependent origination function the same way, or do they function differently?

They function differently. Now, because there are no taints fueling any further ignorance, ignorance is now replaced with intuition. That intuition is dependent upon having established right view, the full knowledge, vision, and experience of the four noble truths. Then any formations that arise will be pure. Why? Because they are no longer filled with the impurities of greed, hatred, and delusion. There is no craving, there is no conceit, there is no ignorance, there are no wrong views that the karmic formations facilitate the arising of. So how do these formations arise in the arahant? Whenever there is contact with the outside world through the six sense bases, there is a corresponding formation that arises dependent upon that, and those formations, their job is to just carry forward any karma, any intention, any action from a previous action. In other words, old karma, the effects of previous actions that were taken prior to full awakening.

To be then experienced through the process of consciousness, nama-rupa, six sense bases, to be made contact with and then experienced at the level of feeling and perception. However, because there is no more ignorance, because the taints are completely destroyed, and because there's no craving, conceit, wrong view, or ignorance, there won't be any underlying tendency in that feeling.

There won't be any underlying tendency towards craving, there won't be any underlying tendency towards aversion, there won't be any underlying tendency towards ignorance, towards conceit, towards existence, towards views, towards doubts. That experience will be just the experience. In other words, in the seeing there is only the seen, in the hearing there is only the heard, in the sensing there's only the sensed, in the cognizing there is only the cognized. Because there is no identification in that, and no identification before that, no identification after that, there is no suffering for the arahant, because no ingredients of craving, clinging, and becoming are present for the birth of further karma to arise, for new karma to arise. So any suffering that does arise in the arahant is essentially a result of previous actions prior to full awakening. So until that happens, you have to keep recognizing anytime the mind identifies with any of these processes, and keep letting go, keep letting go, keep letting go.

As you do that, you let go of the links of craving, let go of the links of clinging, let go of the link of becoming, you let go of the taints of sensual desire, of craving for existence, of ignorance. You let go of ignorance altogether and you have experienced full awakening when you understand it in this way, not just intellectually. The term dependent origination is not to be studied in the sense of memorized only. It's to be understood in everyday experience. It's to be recognized: here is the contact, here is the feeling, here is the perception. Oh, here's the mind craving. Let me let go of that. If you can't recognize the craving, oh, here's the mind rationalizing why I'm craving, in the form of clinging, and let go of that. If you can't notice that, oh, here is the mind starting to arise, habitual tendencies in the form of choices and the sense of self, before I take an action that can cause further suffering. Let me let go of that, so that in letting go of that I apply the four noble truths. I apply the Eightfold Path.

And from that Eightfold Path, my intuition arises to be able to make the correct, the most effective and efficient speech or action that doesn't produce further karma. That is rooted in right intention. That is rooted in right speech. That is rooted in right action. And because it doesn't produce any further karma, I don't experience any further suffering. This is the way to understand it. If you see it in this way, if you're able to recognize and let go, then you will start to have a better understanding of the Four Noble Truths. And you will be that much closer to the complete destruction of the taints and experience full awakening.

Any questions? Thank you for the talk, Delson. You said just now, you mentioned someone who is not an arahat has to be very mindful in order to not create those negative emotions or karmas or whatever. Question being: does that mean that we stop creating karmas if we are mindful and we are not an arahat, yes, or is it just the positive karmas that we end up creating which propels us into a good... So the way to understand it is, if you have mindfulness, you are letting go of any old karma first and foremost. You're preventing the arising of new karma from coming to be, because you don't have any craving there. So mindfulness is the gatekeeper between feeling and craving.

Now, when you replace it with a wholesome intention, is that going to create new karma? It can create better circumstances. Absolutely. Why? Because there's still an identification with that wholesome. In the case of an arahat, even though they're producing wholesome actions, because there is no identification there, it won't fuel a further karmic stream that causes further rebirth. But even if we are mindful, right, there still a sense of I. There's still a sense of identification. Then there will still be further renewal of karma.

But then there's still mindfulness, but there's still sense of I. So what is this mindfulness? Is this mindfulness mindfulness of no I, or is this some other kind of mindfulness? So this mindfulness is first and foremost recognizing when unwholesome states arise, whenever unwholesome states arise, or just being aware of whatever is happening in that moment. But in order for you to go beyond just producing good karma, let's say, you have to be mindful without any sense of taking what is being experienced as personal. The moment you notice the mind is saying, this experience is mine, and you let go of that, then you won't produce further karma. So it is the identification process at the very base of that, which is determined by ignorance.

which is conditioned by ignorance, because there's still ignorance there, right? You're saying this is mine. You're saying this is me. You're saying I am experiencing this. As soon as that's there, then that means there's not a full understanding of the Four Noble Truths. In other words, there's not a full letting go of all conditions for suffering to arise. But then if I'm mindful and not associating with something all the time, that essentially means I'm gonna, I'm an arahat. That's right, that's right. So what you're saying is if you're mindful all the time, then we are an arahat anyway? Yes, absolutely. You know, there's a sutta where somebody asks a question to Sariputta: what is the start of the path, how do you start this process, what is the practice for somebody beginning on the path? And he says mindfulness. Then he says, okay, what about for a sotapanna, a stream enterer, what is their practice? Mindfulness. Okay, fine, but what about a sakadagami, a once-returner? Mindfulness. Okay, what about an anagami? Mindfulness. But what about an arahat? An arahat doesn't need to practice

mindfulness so you come to a point where you're applying mindfulness all the time right without the sense of i without with letting go of that i and just being aware all times to the point that that becomes your default way of living so you're reconditioning the mind from going to being distracted all the time to being attentive and aware and non-identifying all the time.

Can I ask another question? Unrelated. You talked about consciousness going from one life to another life. And yesterday you said there is no I. Today I'm saying one consciousness goes from one life to another life. So what is this consciousness that goes from one life to another life if there is no I? It's an energy. It's an energy that is determined by sankharas.

So one of the last statements of the Buddha before he passed on into parinibbana was he said all states are impermanent. And really, if you go back to the Pali, what it says is all sankharas are impermanent. So what that means is he's trying to point out, saying, don't even take the sankharas as the I. The sankharas are like the coding for the software.

And then the next installment, right? Let's say you have to upgrade the software. So certain kinds of codes will come into play for the upgrading of that software. In the same way, when it goes from one life to the next life, there is a consciousness that arises based on any craving, based on any kind of identification. That consciousness is not an I. That consciousness is just a transfer system to take that software from one program to the next, to take it from one operating system to the next, to take it from one computer to the next. That's it. It's just a transfer device. Then this thing, this energy or whatever, is here right now with us, and this energy, same energy, goes from one lifetime to another lifetime. Then this energy becomes an I, right? It only becomes an I because the mind takes it as an I. Otherwise it's just energy, right? And it's not the same energy as it was from the previous life, but nor is it a new energy.

If I give you two candles, right? You have one candle and I have a candle. My candle is unlit. You have a candle that has a flame on it. Now you take that candle and you transfer some light onto my candle. Now, this light that's there on my candle, is it the same light as it is on your candle? No. But is it different from your light? It's a light. But it's dependent upon the fuel from your candle. And now new fuel is there in the form of the candle wax that's here, through which that flame is arising. So that consciousness that arises is dependent upon the fuel of the previous life, God, right? But there's no I that's transferred from there. It's just transferring one energy to the next.

Another last question. I think this question was asked yesterday also by the gentleman in the red t-shirt sitting on the chair at the back. What happens to the consciousness once you stop accumulating the karmas and afflictions and you have exhausted all your past karma? So between these two lifetimes, what's happening with this energy, consciousness, or whatever you're saying? What happens between these two lifetimes, meaning between the death and the next rebirth? Now the afflictions and karmas are not there in this energy. Well, the fact that there is a new rebirth means that there's still affliction. No, there isn't. But rebirth hasn't happened yet, but the death has happened and there are no karmas, so what happens now?

Even the Buddha has said nothing about it. But you exit the samsara. It says you come off of the wheel of samsara, whatever that means. So the Buddha has given a very nice analogy about this, like he's talked about again using fire as the thing. When you have fire that's produced by wood, or that's produced by cow dung, that's produced by straw or hay or whatever, that's the consciousness that's dependent upon that particular fuel, likewise dependent upon the experience like contact, feeling, and so on. But when that consciousness goes out, when that flame goes out, you don't know whether that flame went out in this direction or that direction, or you don't even ask whether it went out in this direction or that direction.

It's just out. The same way, when we talk about the corresponding consciousness that goes away for someone who attains parinibbana, there's actually a sutta there which talks about this. There's a man named Vakkali who goes onto Vulture's Peak and from there he leaves the body, that is to say he attains parinibbana. And when he attains parinibbana, the Buddha says, look up there at Vulture's Peak, there's this black smoke that's swirling around him, and he's saying that is Mara looking for the consciousness of Vakkali but unable to find it, because for an arahat no new consciousness will arise at death. It's just like it turns into ash and nothing can be produced from it. But Buddha's mind or Buddha's consciousness can take another birth, right? No. What happens is a Buddha is someone who has attained full awakening as a result of becoming a bodhisattva.

And that bodhisattva goes from lifetime to lifetime, right? And there's corresponding sankharas that continue to develop based on the development of paramis, like developing the perfection of compassion and loving kindness and forgiveness and patience and truth and honesty and so on and so forth. And eventually, in their last lifetime, that bodhisattva rediscovers the path to awakening, and essentially rediscovers the understanding of dependent origination, and can then become a samma sambuddha. Let's say there's also what's known as pacheca buddhas, which are solitary buddhas. They don't really teach, but once that buddha is gone, that's why even in the suttas it's asked: does the Tathagata exist after death? Does the Tathagata not exist after death? Does the Tathagata both exist or not exist after death?

Does the Tathagata neither exist nor not exist after death? And the Buddha says none of these apply. So the understanding is there are different Buddhas during different times, and they're all different, not the same. Then the question is, why become an arahant if you can become a Buddha by following the bodhisattva path? You can only become an arahant when a Buddha has given the teachings. An arahant is the same as a Buddha in the sense that both of them have let go of all suffering. The difference between a Buddha and an arahant is that the Buddha is the one who rediscovers the path, and an arahant is somebody who walks that path that the Buddha has opened up. So in this eon, when a Buddha is present and the teachings are available, it makes sense to then become an arahant. However, if the choice is to become a bodhisattva, then you just stand in line. There's probably a hundred quadrillion bodhisattvas in line waiting to become Buddhas. So a bodhisattva who becomes an arahant is a Buddha. Interesting.

So about the experience of an arahant: does the feeling arise, and second, is it feeling without the label of even neutral? No, the feeling can still be pleasant, unpleasant or neutral. So for an arahant they will still experience a painful experience, they will still experience a pleasant experience, or it will be a neutral experience.

The only difference is in their mind there won't be any reaction to, like, being pleasant: I want more of it, or being painful: I don't want it, or being neutral: I'm identifying with it. So there won't be a second arrow. That's right, that's what I was getting to. The analogy of the two arrows: the first arrow is the bodily experience of pain, but there's no mental experience of anguish to that pain. The same way with the pleasure and craving for that pleasure. So for example, even the Buddha, he experienced a lot of back pain, yeah? And so what did he do? He couldn't do anything about it. He had to take medication, he had to go into the fourth jhana, he did one cessation, whatever it was, but still that painful feeling was there. But there was no anguish, mental anguish, regarding that pain.

Second question. Bhante talks about the element of craving being present in every link. Can you expand a little more on that, and how can we let go of that underlying undercurrent of craving in every link? When he talked about that, he was referring to the identification with each link. So you understand, anytime the mind is taking this personally, that is the undercurrent. This conceit, in the form of this craving, is a conceit. So anytime this craving happens, even that craving is seen as an impersonal process rather than taken personally. That's why, if you read the six sets of six in the Chachakka Sutta, it says: i is not self, i consciousness is not self, form is not self, i contact is not self, i feeling is not self, i craving is not self. So the ignorance and the conceit that's there is in each of these links. The momentum of them, the fragrance of them, is in each of these links.

So basically, if you can actually break an experience into the five aggregates and start seeing those individually, then you are breaking that underlying craving? Yes, because now you're seeing this is not me, this is not mine, this is not myself, then there's no taking this personally, and you just see the aggregates for what they are. They are just impersonal aggregates, void of any kind of craving. Last question. You took the example of a virus. So there are dormant viruses even in the human body that never cause any illness, for any reason. Your body has natural immunity, or a vaccine, or whatever. So in the same sense, of course, for an arahant, not everything arises, and it's not necessary that they have extinguished all their karma, but because there is no more ignorance, it is gone.

How about from puthujjana till anagami, how does it happen with them when we use that analogy of viruses? When we talk about viruses, right, so for example, there's these three types of viruses, sometimes there's four. There's the taint of wrong view. So in somebody who has no experience with the Dhamma, and they're just going from lifetime to lifetime, these streams of viruses continue and continue, to maybe strengthen over and over and over. But as one is introduced to the Dhamma and makes an effort to apply the Dhamma through the Eightfold Path, and practicing, and so on and so forth.

Then they experience stream entry. When they experience stream entry, the first taint of wrong view goes away. So sometimes, as I said, it can be three or four. In the case of, we're taking four, then the taint of wrong views goes away, which means that when that taint goes away, a little bit of ignorance is gone, because now they have some understanding of the Four Noble Truths, and because of that, yes, craving will arise, yes, aversion will arise, yes, identification will arise. However, they will have more mindfulness to be able to recognize that, and if there is a slip-up in mindfulness, they will recover quickly from that and make a determination not to slip up again.

Then with the sakadagami, they're little by little weakening that taint of sensual desire, bit by bit, and so their mindfulness is even sharper, which means that taint of ignorance and the link of ignorance also goes away little by little. There's just maybe a little bit left. In that case, when any kind of contact arises, there can be some kind of identification with it, there can be some kind of craving towards it, there can be some kind of aversion towards it. But if they have strong mindfulness, as is in the case of a sakadagami, then they will be able to notice the seed of that arising and let go of it before it turns into a full-blown experience.

But if it does turn into a full-blown experience, they're immediately able to recover from it. They'll be like, okay, I noticed that. I'm letting it go. In the case of an anagami, now they've completely destroyed any kind of sensual desire and aversion, which means the taint of sensual desire is completely eliminated. Now there is only very little ignorance left, in the form of conceit and taking things personally, and the craving for jhana, or craving for being in a certain kind of state.

When they have the next experience into arahantship, then they completely let go of all. In their experience of arahantship, all of dependent origination becomes fully clear. They understand karma to its extreme, in terms of how it functions through the gears and mechanics of dependent origination. They have fully understood the Four Noble Truths, which means that they fully let go of, or understood, all suffering. They fully abandoned all conceit and ignorance. They have fully realized Nibbana and Nirodha for themselves completely. And now the new operating system, right, with that antivirus, which is the Eightfold Path, is installed in their mind. Now that operating system, being installed in their mind, functions perfectly.

Which means the virus of ignorance and the virus of any craving for existence goes away completely. And the beautiful thing about the Eightfold Path, that operating system, is that it continues to upgrade according to the situation, dependent upon a wonderful programming called intuition. So because of that intuition, which then brings about perfect mindfulness, no new virus can infect it. It's completely healthy.

This is the way it works. That makes sense. So, can we understand it as: for an anagami, any sankhara that is rooted in ill will, they have achieved complete immunity, complete 100% vaccination, and do not ever require a booster dose? Two questions, if I may. When one radiates metta, or loving-kindness, to a person, which links of dependent origination get affected in that recipient? So first there is an intention to bring up that loving-kindness. Then there is a contact with the feeling of loving, or the experience of loving-kindness, so there's contact, and then there's the feeling of loving-kindness, and then there is a perception of loving-kindness. Those are the links that are created, or come to be, from that. Now, the sankharas that arise in contact with that loving-kindness are also conditioned by that feeling of loving-kindness, which means every time there's a moment of loving-kindness, it's replacing any kind of ill will that might be rooted in the previous sankhara.

In the recipient, not in the person who's radiating. In the case of somebody experiencing loving-kindness, now here's the thing: you could be sending loving-kindness to a person, and they could be receptive to it, or they could be non-receptive to it. So what's happening there is there is a mind-to-mind or heart-to-heart connection going on. You are sending loving-kindness to them, they might feel it, there's contact. There's mind contact being made with the energy of loving-kindness, with the feeling of loving-kindness. So their mental sankharas arise in the form of experiencing this feeling. However, they could be resistant to it and say, I don't want it. And so there can be an intention to ignore that experience of loving-kindness.

And so that intention of ignoring it takes the attention away from the loving-kindness and goes somewhere else. So now the contact is whatever other thought might be there. But initially, when it's there, contact arises, formations dependent upon that contact arise, and the feeling dependent upon that contact arises. The reason behind asking this question was my second question.

Is it possible for a pregnant mother to give loving-kindness to the fetus, and does that work, and can that be...? We can't prove it, but I would say, and speculate, that yes, it does work. I would say that a lot of things that happen with the mother have some kind of effect, direct or indirect, on the baby. So including sending the baby, or the fetus, loving-kindness, or being in loving-kindness herself, has an effect on the growth and evolution of that baby. An extreme example of this has been research on what's called a Dutch winter hunger. In 1945, Holland was surrounded on all sides by Nazis, and there was extreme rationing of food for something like eight, nine months.

And the children were born to those women, pregnant women at that time. They've been the subject of research for the last 70 years, and they've had some appalling kinds of outcomes. I don't know whether the confounder for that is what happens after birth. But they've been born under those conditions, or even before being born they've been subject to those conditions through the mother. These are catastrophic conditions, but this is now a subject of research called fetal origins of adult diseases. Interesting. Yes. And so I would say within the context of the Dhamma, that's like carrying forward karma. In a sense, when you have some kind of experience in the womb, that's still karma in the sense that it's an experience that you're having in the womb, and then that might have a direct or indirect effect on what kind of, let's say, as you said, adult diseases might arise or might not arise. And so when we talk about formations or sankharas, certain sankharas arise to have the potential to give rise to certain kinds of experiences, disease or environment or whatever it might be.

Yeah, him first and then. Yeah, you earlier mentioned when someone emerges from Nirodha, there is contact with Nibbana Dhatu. So what would be the sense base here? Mind. Mind. Okay. Second is, it's not something we can refi, right? It's not something real. It's notification can be done about... Nibbana also is. And one more question on this line. So after emerging from Nirodha, there is Sunyata contact, Animata contact. Is it this same under Nibbana Dhatu or what is it, or Animata? I'll ask you a question again. What did you say? So emerging from Nirodha, it's been mentioned in Suttas that there are three kinds of contact: Sunyata contact, Animita contact and Apanito contact. So is it the contact with Nibbana itself?

Yes, yes. Okay and how do we discern which one is which? Which one is which? What do you mean? As in Sunyata? It doesn't matter, it's all the same. Okay. These are all just different things leading to the same thing. If you're experiencing emptiness, you're also experiencing undirected and signless if you're experiencing signless you're also experiencing undirected and empty if you're experiencing undirected you're also experiencing signless and empty okay okay and one more question um in this uh levels of np and np um i think i just want to correct my understanding or maybe you know if it is wrong just correct it in the radiant mind or still mind perception comes back online again right or it's still no no perception okay it's just a complete well there might be just the awareness that nothing is going on that's okay but that's still perception no they shouldn't be okay that's not perception okay so in anamita there is no perception at all before for Nirodha there is no perception.

Sir, I have one question. It is somewhat related to general population. Like, as we discussed now, patisandhi consciousness will arise and it takes to new birth. Can we say that present increasing trend of population, like from beginning to now, can we say that the consciousness is increasing from other lives? Can we say that here human lives are coming? Can we say like that? I mean, you could say that because we're having an increase in human population, but we're not noticing the increase in the ant population, we're not looking at the increase in the snake population, we're not looking at the increase in, you know, the anteater population or whatever it might be. So there's always different kinds of ways of looking at this, but not necessarily.

It's all still dependent upon causes and conditions and the kind of karma that's present for the arising of a new human existence, or the arising of an ant existence, or the arising of a deva existence, or whatever it might be. Something related to this question only. Like, I have read the book written by you on suffering. In that it was described that the whole universe, after so many eons, there is a phase of destruction like... Yeah, by water, fire and air. Yes. Okay sir, thank you. Here in the front.

Guruji, thank you for explaining dependent origination in such a crisp manner. You spoke about the new birth. When the rebirth begins, you said ovum, sperm, both of them are necessary, and there is a third thing called gandhabba; the three should come together for the life to begin. Yeah. So when the embryo is formed in IVF technology, they freeze the embryo for quite a few months. Right now, when the life has begun, when the embryo is formed, or when they have frozen it, and when they unfreeze it, then the life begins? When they unfreeze it, life begins. Okay. So when they freeze, there is no life, right? Okay. The material is ready, only when it's then established in the mother's

womb, then the patisandhi gandhabba emerges. But we say that sperm is moving, you know, there is sperm moving and it's penetrating the woman and all that. What is that? Because there's a movement taking place there. Now that's the thing, it's not a being, it's just a function of the body. Like, for example, it's like cells. Each of our cells in the body are doing some kind of function, but you can't say there's consciousness; it's just doing, determined by its program. The same could be said about a virus or bacteria. It's just acting according to its program.

Not necessarily that there is an intention or anything like that. It's just that that is still just genetic material. So even if it's moving, it doesn't mean there's consciousness there. It's moving, likewise with viruses, likewise with bacteria. Okay, thank you. I understand ovum, I understand sperm. What is gandhabba? I can't pronounce it. Gandhabba is one of the words that's used in the suttas to denote... it's a synonym for patisandhi. It's a synonym for patisandhi vinnana. In other words, it's another word to describe the rebirth-linking consciousness. It's the descending consciousness into the nama-rupa. So is my inability to understand another term? I understand the... I understand the object.

What is this corresponding consciousness and what is the term for this in Pali? Yeah, this is vinnana, which is consciousness divided by the experience of the eye making contact with an object. The corresponding consciousness that we're talking about is the function of the eye to be able to receive information. In other words, if the eye was still there, completely okay, but it's not able to, let's say it's blind, then it's not able to receive any information. Even though light is hitting the eye, even though light is penetrating the eye, there is no corresponding receiver that is taking in the information to be aware of it.

Or in the case of the ears as well, or any of the six sense bases. Now, modern science explains to us that the photons are entering the eye, and then that is carried through nerves to the brain. Right. And the brain processes it. Right. Okay. Now, where is vinnana there? At the level of the eye, or at the level of the brain? So when we talk about any experience that's happening now, here's an interesting point: when we talk about eye consciousness, ear consciousness, nose consciousness, tongue consciousness, body consciousness, mind consciousness, it is all actually being received by mind. Okay, because that is why you're reading in the morning: mind is the forerunner of all states, mind is chief. Your eyes are just helping you to receive electromagnetic data, light data. Your ears are there to just receive vibratory data. All this data is then compiled or collected at mind, through which then the mental formations interpret what is being seen, what is being heard, what is being tasted, what is being smelled. So vinnana ultimately is happening at the level of mind, and this is why we're saying vinnana, or consciousness, is interdependent

with mind and body. So without the function of the mind, consciousness cannot happen, but in order for a mind to function there needs to be consciousness. So that vinnana is happening at the level of the mind. So this entire mind is also the nervous system. It's picking up all kinds of things, and it's being received at the level of mind, at the level of the brain, let's say, in this case, and then being interpreted.

That interpretation process is being facilitated by sankharas, the synapses and neurons in the brain that fire and start to create this picture, or start to create and interpret the sound or the smell or the taste or the touch or the thought. So in this case here the processor is the mind, right? And brain is not equivalent to mind; they are not synonyms, right? So brain is only one more part of your body, just like an... it's sorry, it's the materiality. The brain is the materiality, materiality, the rupa. The CPU. Yeah, CPU. Okay. So where is mind? That's the thing, right? That's always the question: where is my mind? Yeah. Mind is encompassed in the brain. Mind is encompassed in the brain. Okay. It's a function of the brain, but the brain, in order for it to actually do anything, needs mind, and mind is also experienced through the nervous system, the entire nervous system.

But mind is also what makes up samsara. Mind is encompassing all of samsara. Thank you. So brain is only a small part of mind. That's right. Thank you. Thank you very much. Oh, there was a question in the back first. Now when we say wisdom, so wisdom is the relaxed step. Wisdom is a result of relaxing. No, wisdom is the relaxed, wisdom is the result of relaxed step. So the main pragya, what we say, is the result of the relaxed step, or it is like it is impermanent, so we are relaxing

it's seeing that it's impermanent and so it's relaxing. We are relaxing, but as a result of it that prajniya is further established. So till tanha it is not in our hands. After that upadana, or making it as a relaxed, no, no, no. Till vedana it is not in our hands. Whatever we're experiencing right now is not in our hands, but how we choose to interpret, identify or let go is in our hands, before it can turn into tanha. Okay.

And what about human intellect? Is that intelligence? Sometimes human intellect is too intelligent for its own good. That human intellect is a function of mind, right? And that human intellect itself is a repository of different things that it picks up in the form of knowledge, and in the way it interprets it, it is through perception. So that intellect is essentially a function of perception, because only human beings can do all this. Come out of the samsara, can come out of samsara, only the human intellect can do this. Uh, what about devas? Uh, that meditation and, you know, feeling, devas can meditate too. Above that, yeah. Thank you.

Could you explain what quiet mind is? Yeah, quiet mind is essentially just a fancy way of saying pabhassara citta. Or an easier way, I should say, of saying pabhassara citta. Pabhassara citta in Pali means luminous mind. It's a mind that has absolute mindfulness. It's a mind that is completely aware at all times and is unwavering, and that happens after you let go of coarser distractions.

Once you keep relaxing and letting go, you come to a point where the mind doesn't want to do anything but rest in itself. That's the beginning of quiet mind, and eventually that sinks down into what's known as still mind, where absolutely no vibration is going on at all. Okay, so you can experience subtle vibrations in quiet mind? Yes. And sometimes a little bit of dullness? Maybe a little bit of dullness? It can happen, it can happen, and that's where you have to balance the factors: bring in more energy, bring in more joy, and then dullness goes away. Thank you. Can an enlightened one anticipate the time of death before it comes? Before the time comes, like there are factors for rebirth: if you do a wholesome deed then you will be in a higher state of your pains, the rebirth will happen like so. Likewise, are there some parameters which will define the time of the existing life, a time of death of the existing life? This is determined by what's known as ayusankharas. Ayusankharas means vital formations, or formations rooted in vitality, and the modern equivalent of this is telomeres.

Telomeres are the end caps in our chromosomes, and they determine the age, let's say, the biological age of the body. When the Buddha was there, about three months before he attained parinibbana, he said, I am ready to go. So in that, it said that he let go of his ayu sankharas. And so the process of unraveling that took some time, and then in three months he attained parinibbana. So it can happen that you can actually access your vital formations and determine that at this point then it's time for this body to go. This is a question that Stephen Hopkins says about the five orbits of the five orbits, something five orbits, yeah, and the energy after death is in the fifth orbit or the element, and it accepts the body when it wants it. It is like that, or here we say it is in the click, yeah, from here it goes and it goes there.

I've heard and learned somewhere that, and what about the genetical tampering of it? And the third is that when we say the womb is there, father is there, and the consciousness goes on. What about the twins? So now let's break up the different questions that you have. When it comes to this idea of the consciousness waiting to be born, that really is happening at the level of mind. So everything that we say, sometimes we talk about these antarabhava, it's called, these points in between one life to the next, they call them bardos, for example, in certain traditions of Buddhism. They're all being experienced in the mind of the person that is passing on.

So the way that the person passes on, certain functions start to decline. The last function to decline is the mind. And in the mind, all kinds of things can happen. Even if the brain seems to be no longer functioning, even if the body has gone into cardiac arrest, mind is still there functioning. And in that process, experiencing the bardos, experiencing this process of life review, experiencing waiting to be born and all of these things, experiencing their relatives taking them into a different light and all of these other things. But all of this is still happening in the mind before the new consciousness passes on to the next life.

Now, in the case of twins, there is one genetic material that's happening with regards to that particular process. There, it will require two corresponding consciousness. That's it. Now, when you talk about genetic tampering, what are you talking about? Like in terms of, they tamper the genetics of the baby, isn't that illegal? Right now it's illegal, but you're talking about the future when we have designer babies.

They are trying to bring the intellectual, they're trying to bring the tampering to the intellectual babies or something like that. Right. Creating babies who are resistant to certain diseases. What about it? What about that consciousness, or what is that? So then that consciousness will still come into that particular... waiting for that genetic to be tampered. No, that is not in that consciousness's hand, right? The fact that genetic tampering is happening is also part of their karma.

That's the way to look at it. We have gone to the extreme lengths and limits of questioning. I have one last question. When we are actually at the level of, from craving till I would say before birth, of action, when we are not identifying, or we are mindful of the fact that this is not me, this is not mine, this is not myself, are we also dampening the link of ignorance to some extent? Yes, of course, absolutely.

Every time we notice that this is not me, not mine, not myself, we're letting go a little bit of ignorance, and so the next arising doesn't have so much ignorance in it. Okay. So similar to seven factors of enlightenment, this is also linear to a certain extent but also cyclical. Yeah, yeah. I've tried to simplify it as best as I can for you guys, but in reality, when you look at dependent origination, it is linear in that sense and there's momentum going on, but there's a lot of feedback loop systems. So for example, the contact feeds back to some cars, specifically mental, and cars to bring up an experience of feeling. Every time the mind has craving, it feeds back to the taint of sensual desire, creating new momentum for the next arising. So there's always these feedback loop systems that are happening. Oh, last question.

Okay, last. Thank you, Guruji. You said that once the body is dead, medical terms, brain dead, mind still functions. For how long does it function? Because we have heard that once death happens, and in a fraction of seconds, dharmas are transferred, a new consciousness begins, new life begins. But that doesn't mean that the person or the being, let's say, is dead, because if the mind is still functioning, then it's still alive. Medically it's dead, but mind is still there, so it's still present in that same life.

Only when the mind completely disappears is it said to be absolute death. How long does that take? That can happen anywhere from a few moments to a few days. Oh really? So even if people burn the body or bury the body? It can still be there. Thank you. Every question leads to a new question. Mental proliferation, guys. Go ahead.

You just said that the body might be dead, or in medical sense a person is dead, but there's a mind or consciousness still in that body, and it might be there, it might be meditating, might be going through different stages, whatever. Does it mean that it's not a good idea to burn the body or sort of remake the body if the mind is still there? And how do we sort of know if a loved one is passing away if there... Yeah, first and foremost, when your loved one passes away, it's important not to cry immediately. Try your best not to cry. It's important to be there, chant mantras if that helps, read suttas, do all kinds of things. Now as to whether the energy is completely left or not?

You have to be a little intuitive there. Not everybody will be able to understand that. But sometimes you know it, because there's this feeling of coldness in the room. It's a very different way of experiencing that process, of that person is completely gone. But that's why certain traditions talk about either immediately burning the body, or other traditions talk about waiting for some time before you burn the body or discard the body, or whatever it might be. But that might not be in your hands. What would be in your hands is making sure that you keep your mind uplifted and you keep your words around the body as uplifted as possible. Try to not express grief immediately. Try to send loving kindness, try to chant suttas, try to chant mantras, whatever works. Does moving the body or burning the body, or permitting the body, affect the mind that is in the body?

It will. What would be the good practice to follow? What would be the good practice to follow after the... I would say on average it takes anywhere from 18 hours to 72 hours before the mind completely goes away. So not to move the body during that time period, or burn the body, or cremate the body. Let it stay.

I would say beyond 72 hours is okay. One last question, come on guys. So follow-up question: what if someone dies in an accident and they have signed up for organ donation? Yeah, so does that... No, that's fine. That's no longer related to the mind. Now it's fine. But it's interesting that when you do organ donation, sometimes what happens is because the sankharas that are there in that particular organ can be experienced by the recipient of that organ.

There's some kind of memory that's still there, a bio-memory, so to speak, in that organ. Okay. Let's share some merit. May suffering ones be suffering free, and the fierce shrug, fearless be. May the grieving shed all grief, and may all beings find relief. May all beings share this merit that we have thus acquired for the acquisition of all kinds of happiness. May beings inhabiting space and earth, devas and nagas of mighty power, share this merit of ours. May they long protect the Buddha's dispensation. Sadhu, Sadhu, Sadhu.