MN 8 Conceit Purifying the mind. -Sunday Sutta Series with Delson Armstrong

All right, so today we're going to be doing Majjhima Nikaya 8. This is called Sallekha Sutta, or effacement, or self-effacement, and we'll see what that means. Thus have I heard: on one occasion the Blessed One was living at Savatthi in Jeta's Grove, Anathapindika's Park. Then when it was evening, the Venerable Mahacunda arose from meditation and went to the Blessed One. After paying homage to the Blessed One, he sat down at one side and said to him, "Venerable sir, various views arise in the world associated either with doctrines of a self or with doctrines about the world. Now, does the abandoning and relinquishing of those views come about?"

come about in the bhikkhu who is attending only to the beginning of his meditative training? So it's an interesting point. He says there are many doctrines in this world, and of course, during the time of the Buddha, there were definitely many regarding the self. Is the self the Atman? Is it the eternal consciousness? Is it awareness? Is it the body? Is it impermanent or permanent? And all of these things. And the world.

When did the world begin? How did the world begin? What is the beginning of the world? How does the world end? Is there an end to the world? What is the world? All these different views and ideas. So he's asking now, does the abandoning and relinquishing of those views come about in one who is attending only to the beginning of his meditative training? That is to say, one who is entering into samadhi, one who is practicing for the jhanas primarily. Chunda, as to those various views that arise in the world associated either with doctrines of a self or with doctrines about the world, if the object in relation to which those views arise, which they underlie and which they are exercised upon, is seen as it actually is with proper wisdom, thus

this is not mine, this I am not, this is not myself, then the abandoning and relinquishing of those views comes about. Interesting. So what he's saying here is, as to all those different views about the world and about the self and so on, if the object in relation to which those views arise, right? So there is an idea, there's a concept, there's a mental object. Generally speaking, there's a concept that arises, which those views underlie, right, and which they are exercised upon, in which one acts from. But if one sees as it actually is with proper wisdom, thus, with pragya in Sanskrit or panna, this is not me, this I am not, this is not myself.

then the abandoning and relinquishing of those views comes about. So, realizing that whatever the view may be that may arise, if the mind doesn't take it personally and says, this is my view, this view is me, this view is myself, then there is no possibility of the mind taking that view and then running with it and causing all kinds of trouble. The world that we live in, and the world that has always been the case, has been a world of views.

Different kinds of views about the world, about the self, about practice, about spirituality, about religion, about country, about caste, about creed, about identity, about gender, about a whole bunch of different things related to the self and related to the world. And generally we see a lot of conflict in the world at large because of these views, the thicket of views, where people defend them to such an extent that this is me, mine, or myself, that they may even die for them, or worse, they may even kill for them. Such views only perpetuate violence. They only perpetuate destruction. They only perpetuate suffering. So any views which the mind holds strongly upon should be seen as just a concept that the mind can navigate with and navigate through, but to be seen as just concepts, like the raft that you take from one shore to the other, but you don't continue carrying that. It's just used as a tool if needed, because we have right view. For example, the four noble truths are the right view. But if you hold on to them as this is me, this is mine, this is myself

then we will experience attachment to that view and we will have identification with that view, and non-identification, non-clinging, is the way to full liberation. So even if you just, as he says, consider and see with proper wisdom, thus, what do we mean by proper wisdom? The wisdom rooted in the understanding of the emptiness of self: that this is not me, this is not mine, this is not myself. This is not mine, this I am not, this is not myself. As the sutta says, the Buddha says: "It is possible here, Chunda, that quite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unwholesome states, some bhikkhu enters upon and abides in the first jhana, which is accompanied by applied and sustained thought, with rapture and pleasure born of seclusion. He might think thus, 'I am abiding in effacement.' But it is not these attainments that are called effacement." What do we mean by effacement? It's the letting go of the self.

it's where the self as a identity view the self as conceit the self as the intrinsic idea that this is me mine or myself disappears in a facement that view is abandoned but that doesn't happen here as the buddha says because if he might think i'm abiding in a facement that's not what is that's That's not what these attainments are in the noble one's discipline. They are called pleasant abidings here and now in the noble one's discipline, meaning they are wonderful, blissful states of temporary liberations.

So it's not just jhana that's going to take you there. It's a whole bunch of things, as we will see, that accompany that process of jhana that leads you to liberating wisdom. It is possible here that with the stilling of applied and sustained thought, someone enters upon and abides in the second jhana, which has self-confidence and singleness of mind without applied and sustained thought, with rapture and pleasure born of collectedness.

So in the first jhana we have vitakka and vicara, thinking and examining thought. The thinking is placing the mind upon an object, and the examining thought is to make a little effort to keep the mind on the object. But the pleasure that's born of seclusion means my mind is free of the hindrances, and my mind is starting to collect itself.

In the second jhana, the mind is free of vitakka and vicara because now there's self-confidence. There's a flow of awareness and attention on the object without any movement. And so the mind is able to stay with it with self-confidence. And so that pleasure that's born is born of collectedness. Hindrances have been far gone, and so now the mind has good collectedness. And so there's pleasant sensations of sukha and piti.

And he might think thus, 'I'm abiding in effacement,' but these are called pleasant abidings here and now. It is possible here that with the fading away as well of rapture, someone enters and abides in equanimity, and mindful and fully aware, still feeling pleasure with the body, he enters upon and abides in the third jhana, on account of which noble ones announce, 'He has a pleasant abiding who has equanimity and is mindful.'

So equanimity is the real signature of the third jhana. You let go of the rapturous joy, the piti, and what remains is the sukha. And he might thus think, 'I am abiding in effacement,' but these are called pleasant abidings here and now. It is possible here that with the abandoning of pleasure and pain, and with the previous disappearance of joy and grief, so now he's let go of all duality concepts, pleasure and pain, joy and grief, he enters upon the fourth jhana, which has neither pain nor pleasure, and purity of mindfulness due to equanimity. So what this means is the seven enlightenment factors are running through in the undercurrent of the jhanas.

The mindfulness leads to investigation of states, or discernment, dhamma vichaya, the recognizing of what is wholesome and unwholesome, what is skillful and unskillful. This discernment leads to energy, this energy leads to joy, this joy leads to tranquility, this tranquility leads to collectedness, and this collectedness leads to equanimity. Then this equanimity circles back and strengthens the next cycle of mindfulness.

And so by the third jhana, equanimity is very strong. By the fourth jhana, unwavering mindfulness. Here when we say mindfulness, it's the ability of the mind to recognize, right? To remember, to observe how the mind's attention moves from one thing to the other. Sati-sampajanna. You need these two for the mind to experience liberating wisdom. He might think thus, 'I am abiding in effacement,' but it is not these attainments that are called effacement in the noble one's discipline. These are called pleasant abidings here and now.

It is possible here that with the complete surmounting of perceptions of form, with the disappearance of perceptions of sensory impact, with non-attention to perceptions of diversity, aware that space is infinite, someone enters upon and abides in the base of infinite space. So now we're getting into the territory of the formless jhanas. So by the time you're in the fourth jhana, you have very little contact with the body.

And eventually the mind pervades the space around it with loving-kindness, or with compassion, or with joy, or with equanimity. And there is a feeling that this body and the outside world, there is no difference. There is no more of a border around. It's all just one thing, and it's spacious. It's ever-increasing awareness of space, of the infinitude of space.

Yes, to an extent that is the case, but you go deeper than that and you start to see for yourself the arising and passing away of individual sense-based consciousnesses, which are happening internally at the link of contact. So every time you may experience a flicker behind the eyes, a sound in the ears, inside the sense of electricity in the tongue, some kind of tingling in the body, maybe phantom smells, space between thoughts that might come and go in the background.

All of these are showing the mind the individual points of the arising and passing away of contact, contact, contact. And so eventually what happens is that you start to see the gaps between each of these points of contact. And over a period of time, as you're starting to observe, without controlling or affecting the situation in any way through your attention, just observing, you see that the arising and passing away is impermanent. It's arising and passing away, which means it is impermanent.

And after a while, it becomes too much. It becomes boring. It becomes just tiresome. And so this is dukkha. And you see that there's no one controlling this process. It's happening due to causes and conditions. And so now you're getting the wisdom of anatta, the panna of anatta, and this leads to a deeper sense of equanimity, and this equanimity is tied to nothingness. So he says, 'It's possible here that by surmounting the base of infinite consciousness, aware that there is nothing, some bhikkhu enters upon and abides in the base of nothingness. He might think thus, I am abiding in effacement.' But these are called peaceful abiding. So now here in this nothingness, some people see a blank white, they see a blank darkness, they see nothing, whatever it is. There's no thing that the mind holds on to, except for the awareness of equanimity that they continue to pervade, that they continue to radiate.

And so after a while, the radiating also feels tense. And so mind just wants to rest in itself. And so we are just in what is eventually called quiet mind, in still mind. And so it's possible here that by completely surmounting the base of nothingness, some bhikkhu enters upon and abides in the base of neither perception nor non-perception.

He might think thus, 'I am abiding in effacement.' But these attainments are not called effacement in the noble one's discipline. These are called peaceful abidings in the noble one's discipline. So here he doesn't go beyond. But when we talk about the cessation of perception and feeling, that is effacement: no self, no concept of self, no experience of self, nothing really that can be attached to a self, is even visible, because nothing is visible, nothing is perceivable, nothing is felt. All experience ceases.

And how this happens is, after a while, the mind just lets go and gets very deep and quiet, and then might experience what's known as the signless collectedness of mind. And the signless collectedness of mind is where the mind starts to lose the borders of any kind of subject-object duality. There's no longer a mind resting in itself. There's just a signless awareness of nothing in particular that continues to be aware, and the light of that awareness continues to shine on and be traveling

into space without any object that it can land upon. This is called objectless awareness. And after a while, the only thing that's present is the sense of 'I am', the conceit formation. And just by seeing that, the mind lets go automatically. In the very seeing of that particular formation, it disappears. As soon as we try to control it, the 'I am' starts to agitate and become 'I am this. I am a meditator. I am residing in this particular jhana or in this particular attainment.'

But once all that is let go, the mind is completely flat. No vibration at all. No formations at all. All mental formations have ceased at this point. And then cessation happens. Now, Chunda, here, effacement should be practiced by you. Now he's saying, what is actually effacement? How does one practice for it? He says, others will be cruel. We shall not be cruel here. Effacement should be practiced thus.

Others will kill living beings. We shall abstain from killing living beings here. Effacement should be practiced thus. Others will take what is not given. We shall abstain from taking what is not given here. Effacement should be practiced thus. Others will be uncelibate. We shall be celibate here. This is for the monks. In here, in this case, we shall abstain from sexual misconduct as lay people. Effacement should be practiced thus. Others will speak falsehood. We shall abstain from falsehood, from false speech here. Effacement should be practiced thus. Others will speak maliciously. We shall abstain from malicious speech here. Effacement should be practiced thus. Others will speak harshly. We will abstain from harsh speech here. Effacement should be practiced thus.

Others will gossip. We shall abstain from gossip here. Effacement should be practiced thus. Others will be covetous, we shall be uncovetous here, effacement should be practiced thus. Others will have ill will, we shall be without ill will here, effacement should be practiced thus. Others will be of wrong view, we shall be of right view here, effacement should be practiced thus. So here what the Buddha is talking about are the ten skillfully liberating actions.

So not to be cruel is a mental action. Not to have ill will is a mental action. To have right view is a mental action. To abstain from killing living beings, to abstain from what is not given, taking what is not given, and to abstain from sexual misconduct, Those are all bodily actions. To abstain from lying, to abstain from speaking maliciously, and to abstain from speaking harshly, these are all verbal actions. But in addition to this is added the gossip.

Also, when we say others will be covetous, we shall be uncovetous here. That's also a mental action in terms of having the intention of contentment, nekkhamma. So these ten skillfully liberating habits or actions that we cultivate purify the mind. And then once the mind is purified, it is ready for further practice. And that includes: others will be of wrong view, here we shall be of right view. What is right view?

The mundane right view is obviously the view of action and consequence, the view that there is meaning in what is given, in what is offered, in what is sacrificed, that there is this world and the other, that there is this mundane world of the sense bases and the other world of the mind that can enter into jhana.

That there is mother and father. That there is causality and conditionality. Through our mother and father, we arise in this body, so to speak. And so we owe gratitude, at least for that. And that there are those who can guide people in this practice. So this gives a very calming effect to the mind. It's a very wholesome place to be.

It's, as Ajahn Sona would say, a psychologically healing place to be. I'm paraphrasing. But that's really what it is, this kind of view. You have a view of nihilism, which can be very disengaging, or destabilizing, in such a way that the mind becomes anxious. You have a view of eternalism, where the mind can fluctuate because it wants eternal life, it wants to go and be immortal, and so on.

And of course, the right view here can also be the view of the Four Noble Truths in terms of the supramundane. Others will be of wrong intention, we shall be of right intention here. Wrong intention is covetousness. I want more, I'm not satisfied. Lack of contentment. Cruelty. Being malicious, being cruel. Not recognizing the suffering of others and adding to their suffering.

And ill will, the desire to harm others, the desire that others be in harm. Right intention is the opposite of that: contentment, nekkhamma, renunciation, non-ill will and non-cruelty. Others will be of wrong speech, we shall be of right speech here. Wrong speech is telling lies, speaking in falsehoods, gossiping, speaking unnecessarily, speaking maliciously, speaking divisively. Right speech is abstaining from all of that. Others will be of wrong action, we shall be of right action here. What is right action? Abstaining from killing living beings, abstaining from taking what is not given, abstaining from sensual and sexual misconduct. Others will be of wrong livelihood, we shall be of right livelihood here. Wrong livelihood is any kind of career,

any kind of trade, business, any kind of job or profession that deals in the harming of oneself or harming of other beings. Right livelihood is abstaining from those kinds of things. Others will be of wrong effort, we shall be of right effort here. What is wrong effort? Not being able to recognize when unwholesome states are present, not being able or not letting go of those unwholesome states, not generating wholesome states of mind, and not maintaining those wholesome states in mind. In other words, practically speaking, ignoring the unwholesome states, thinking that's the way to do it, and suppressing the unwholesome states, thinking that's the way to do it. But the right effort here is to recognize the arising of unwholesome states

and then letting them go, and then generating wholesome states and keeping them going with your attention. Others will be of wrong mindfulness, we shall be of right mindfulness. What is wrong mindfulness? Wrong mindfulness is just this: mindfulness, TM, the McDonald's version of mindfulness, McMindfulness. It's like, I will be mindful when I'm drinking my tea, I'll be mindful when I'm looking at my phone, I'll be mindful when I'm watching TV, I'll be mindful of this and that and the other. Being in the present moment, that's part of it.

But right mindfulness is the awareness of the present moment and the clear comprehension, the sati sampajanna, the clear comprehension of how mind is interacting with itself in relation to what's happening. And so the anchors of the body, the feelings or sensations or experiences, the mind itself or mental states and phenomena, like the five hindrances, enlightenment factors, noble truths, and so on, all of these are anchor points for the mind to come back into the present moment, and then be aware of where mind is in this present moment, what is happening in mind. That is sati sampajanna, that is samma sati, right mindfulness. Others will be of wrong collectedness, we shall be of right collectedness here.

What is wrong collectedness? Well, strictly speaking, wrong collectedness is not just the one-pointed concentration because it's suppressing hindrances rather than seeing through them, using right effort and right mindfulness, but also entering into jhana without taking the refuges, without keeping the precepts, without really having any kind of discernible interest or study in the Dhamma. You're just going into jhana because it feels good, but not realizing that these jhanas, as the Buddha said, are pleasant abidings, but they're not a facement themselves.

In order for you to have right meditation, right collectedness, all these other factors of the Eightfold Path, all the ten skillfully liberating habits must be followed. And then you will enter into right collectedness. Others will be of wrong knowledge. We shall be of right knowledge here. Affacement should be practiced thus. What is wrong knowledge? The lack of understanding of the Four Noble Truths.

Right knowledge is the understanding of the Four Noble Truths, which means understanding dependent origination, understanding causality and conditionality. Others will be of wrong deliverance. We shall be of right deliverance here. What is wrong deliverance? "I have become one with the Atman and Brahman. I am pure awareness. I am liberated from samsara by becoming one with the Universal Consciousness." There's still "I am" there. That's wrong deliverance. The reality is the insight, which is the right knowledge into the nature of self as being empty, leads to right deliverance, right liberation, where the mind drops all sense of "this is me, mine or myself." This is how effacement should be practiced.

Others will be overcome by sloth and torpor. We shall be free from sloth and torpor here, right? So that's one of the hindrances. Others will be restlessness. We shall not be restless here, right? That's the agitation, the restlessness and remorse, looking to the past and saying, what if I had done things differently? Or what if this happens, creating anxiety and restlessness?

Others will be doubters. We shall go beyond doubt here. Here the doubt is the inability to recognize the difference between what is wholesome and what is unwholesome. Others will be angry. We shall not be angry. Others shall be resentful. We shall not be resentful. So now we're getting into the territory of the upakilesas, which we talked about last week. Others will be contemptuous. We shall not be contemptuous. Others will be insolent. We shall not be insolent. Others will be envious. We shall not be envious. Others will be avaricious.

We shall not be avaricious. Others will be fraudulent. We shall not be fraudulent. Others will be deceitful. We shall not be deceitful. Others will be obstinate, stubborn. We shall not be stubborn. Others will be arrogant. We shall not be arrogant. Others will be difficult to admonish. We shall be easy to admonish. Then others will have bad friends. We shall have good friends. We should know the value of good friendship. What does it mean to be a good friend, or have a good friend? A good friend can show you where you're going wrong

in a way that enlightens you. A good friend will not just be silent when you're doing something wrong. They will try to bring some kind of awareness to the situation in a way that's compassionate, in a way that is respectful, not in a way that is demeaning. Others will be negligent. We shall be diligent here. We shall have diligence, appamada. We shall be present at all times. Others will be faithless. What is faithless?

Not taking refuge in the Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha. We shall be faithful here. Others will be shameless. We shall be shameful here. What do we mean by shameful? Well, having some level of decency. Just simple as that. Others will have no fear of wrongdoing. We shall be afraid of wrongdoing. We see the consequence of what happens when we mess up, or what could potentially happen when we mess up. Others will be of little learning. We shall be of great learning. So we have a deep desire to know more about the Dhamma, for the sake of liberating the mind.

Others will be lazy. We shall be energetic, right? We should be energized when we learn the Dhamma. Others will be unmindful. We shall be established in mindfulness here. Others will lack wisdom. We shall possess wisdom. Others will adhere to their own views, holding on to them tenaciously and relinquishing them with difficulty. We shall not adhere to our own views or hold on to them tenaciously, but shall relinquish them easily. A facement should be practiced thus. Don't hold on to any concepts. As soon as you're trying to defend a view

You have become a slave to that view. See views as just concepts arising and passing away. Chunda, I say that even the inclination of mind towards wholesome states is of great benefit. What should be said of bodily and verbal acts conforming to such a state of mind? Just the intention to be wholesome is great. What should be said of actually doing that? Mind should be inclined thus. Right, he talks about the same thing, so the mind should have this intention, Chunda. So we'll skip all that, because he's going through all of that. Chunda, suppose there were an uneven path and another even path by which to avoid it. And suppose there was an uneven path, even forward, and another even forward by which to avoid it.

So too. So in other words, you look at what is the path that leads to Nibbana and the path that takes you away from it. And you avoid that path. And you know what that is from your study, from these talks, from reading the suttas, right? So he says all of these things. One given to taking what is not given has abstention from taking what is not given by which to avoid it, right? One given to be uncelibate has celibacy by which to avoid it. One given to false speech has abstention from false speech by which to avoid it. Right, so there's one where the mind can be given towards these unwholesome states, but there's one where you abstain from them by avoiding them. He goes through all of that.

Chunda, just as all unwholesome states lead downwards and all wholesome states lead upwards, so too, a person given to cruelty has non-cruelty to lead him upwards. So you know that when you are in an unwholesome state of mind that causes tightness and tension and agitation and disturbance, there is something that leads you away from that. And it's the abstention from the unwholesome states. It's through the cultivation of the Eightfold Path. It's through the cultivation of the abstention from the Upakilesas. Chunda, that one who is himself sinking in the mud should pull out another who is sinking in the mud, is impossible.

So that one who is himself sinking, it should be impossible for him to bring out others. Right? That one who is not himself sinking in the mud should pull out another who is sinking in the mud, is possible. So that means that one who is himself untamed, undisciplined, with defilements unextinguished, should tame another, discipline him and help extinguish his defilements, is impossible. That one who himself is tamed, disciplined, with defilements extinguished, he came another, discipline him and help extinguish his defilements, is possible. So to a person given to not cruelty, as non-cruelty, by which to extinguish it. So when you have a problem, you know how to deal with it by seeing its polar opposite, generally speaking.

When you have a wrong view, you know what right view is. So you incline the mind towards right view. So with the knowledge of this, with the understanding of this, it's now time to apply it. This is really what the Buddha is saying. So it's shown that the way of effacement has been taught by me, the way of inclining the mind has been taught by me, the way of avoiding has been taught by me, the way leading upwards has been taught by me, and the way of extinguishing has been taught by me. All of these are paths towards the inclining of the mind to the wholesome, the avoiding of what is unwholesome

that is leading upwards, that's generating the wholesome and maintaining the wholesome, and leading to the extinguishment, to Nibbana. What should be done for his disciples out of compassion by a teacher who seeks their welfare and has compassion for them, that I have done for you, Chunda. There are these roots of trees, these empty huts. Meditate, Chunda. Do not delay, or else you will regret it later. This is our instruction to you. That is what the Blessed One said. The Venerable Maha Chunda was satisfied and delighted.

in the Blessed One's words. So, any questions, comments? Well, let me pose a question here about, I think it said wrong concentration and right concentration. What do you... we kind of know what that means, but where is the original meaning of that sutta? What did he really mean? Well, there's the value words, oh, the Poly words, yeah. It's micha samadhi, which is wrong. Micha comes from mitya, if I'm not mistaken, and mitya means false, or that which is illusory, or that which leads to illusion or delusion. And samma or samyak, samma samadhi means the right or the proper or the appropriate way leading towards liberation, towards Nibbana. So there is a Vibhanga Sutta which deals with all of the different factors of the Eightfold Path. I think recently David you shared those with me. Yeah, that's a very good sutta if you can just let people

see that. I can. Yeah, I can share that. Yeah, it describes exactly that, what the Eightfold Path means in each fold, what it means. So it's good. Yeah. There's a question here: what does it mean, we shall be easy to admonish? Which means, when someone like Bhante Vimalaramsi starts to chew you out, you take it. You just are like, okay, I understand. There's very little resistance. You understand that when someone is trying to correct you, it's for your own benefit, right? I mean, teachers can be impatient, teachers can be having a bad day, and they could just be having their own personalities, but a good teacher is somebody who will admonish you when needed, right? And so for you to be able to have the openness to hear behind what they're saying

Um, that's important, and you raised your hand. I'm thinking about the process of being mindful of cruelty and developing non-cruelty. I am thinking about that first time I did a retreat, and we ran around collecting the snails rather than killing the snails. We could collect them out of the garden and then take them to the park and let them go, which probably presented a problem for the people at the park or the gardeners there. You know, so many people that I know in this world are not Buddhist-oriented. My brother-in-law, his son is starting to develop cattle. He wants to have cattle for beef.

And I just think how normal it is. I mean, they don't think of it as cruelty. They think the other beings are disposable. And I just think, from the time of collecting those snails to my brother-in-law, this mission, ant in our kitchen, I was just compulsive. I mean, before I even thought, I said, don't, don't kill it. Because I've observed them, they're very benign, the answer. And, anyway, I don't know. It's people. I just noticed my own reactions and how the world is. And how does a person come to know cruelty? Maybe by being around non-cruel people. They go, oh, that feels better. Yeah, I think you're on to something there. If somebody has been in an environment where people are cruel, that becomes their status quo. But if they're introduced to people who are kind, right, and who can show them uncruel reactions over a period of time, they will incline to the people that are uncruel to them, and over a period of time

through their influence they will see that what they're doing may be cruel; what they're doing is causing themselves harm, let alone other people suffering, other beings suffering. And I think over a period of time they will learn how to let that go and see the benefit in being uncruel, see the joy, the sustainability, let's say, of being uncruel.

The other thing is, yeah, go ahead. I was thinking how my brother was a hunter, and among other people who hunted, I appreciated his — he wasn't just a deer-in-the-headlights hunter. He liked to shoot with a bow. He liked to go out and just watch. Sometimes he would be perfectly content to just watch the animals, but I go, well, how can you watch them and get to know them and their habits and everything, and then kill them? And he didn't think that he was doing — he was being cruel. He thought it was, he was just part of the cycle of life. And anyway, interesting perspectives, and this spectrum of view on the subject. Yeah, I was just going to add to that, which was, you know, basically just kind of connected to what you just said. We live in a very human-centric world. We don't really take into consideration that there are other beings out there who are also experiencing suffering. We're also experiencing cruelty, and humans have the capacity to do wonderful things

but they also have the capacity to do not so wonderful things, as history tells us. And it's because of the arrogance of the human-centric worldview. So if we start to let go of that and start to disidentify, or at least let go of the idea that because I'm a human, I have a right to be cruel to others, I can actually live in harmony with the world around me. If I let go of this idea that I have to be, as a human, superior to all other beings

and see my place in it, then I can live in real potential harmony. Let me just take a few questions here. So it says, you know, the precept on killing is tough to follow when a pet is suffering. Our cat had kidney problems and congestive heart failure. He was having a hard time breathing, very sick. We had to put him down. I don't know how to view this.

Yeah, that's a very tough one. You know, in Dhammasukha, for example, also when pets get sick, we tend to them. And, you know, generally they give them hospice care, so to speak. They help them whatever way they can, and eventually they have a natural death. And that's the sort of way that we deal with it generally. So I think it's more about seeing that every being, no matter how much they're suffering, for the most part, still has a will to live, still wants to live somehow.

It's humans who feel like they don't want to live. And it's because we are overly conscious. We have over-consciousness, that's what I would call it. We're overly conscious of things. We're too aware for our own good about things, and so we think we know what's right based on that. But I think if you let things happen and run their natural course, that might be a better way of looking at it. But this is just how I see it. Okay, I used to be able to kill insects without thinking anything about it, but now I think of them as, they're just trying to survive like we are. Yeah, they too have a life. When I see a bug in my house, they grab a bug catcher and place them back into the yard. And there were cicadas I would see dead outside, and I wanted to bury them. One time a praying mantis was outside my door, and I said hello to him, and he turned his head and looked at me. That's great. Thich Nhat Hanh said it was a problem that we all had

to eat one another in nature. One being will kill another for food. You do not kill for concepts. As humans may, yeah, I mean, humans kill for sport, whereas animals kill for hunger. Um, Kirsten, right, thank you for that. So I have to say something about admonish being easy to admonish. So yeah, I think if we're difficult to admonish, our teachers won't want to admonish us. Like if we're getting salty or upset with them and it's hard, then, you know, if we're not open to it, we're just making their job harder. But even beyond just teachers admonishing us or giving us feedback about how we are in the world, that's how we learn how we come across, if you think about even growing up. So if we close off all feedback

we're gonna, there's no telling how we'll turn out. You know, we want to grow up to become kind people, and if we're doing something that's really unkind or offensive, it's nice to have that feedback. It's not fun, maybe, but if we can just have the humility to go, oh wow, that's not a very good behavior, so let me work on that a little bit. So anyway, just my comment there. Thank you. That's actually very helpful, it's very insightful. Um, as a retired teacher, I repeated gently many times, only when I became stern and very serious did the students understand.

Those who required more repetition just lost the learning. Yeah, exactly. Sometimes that means you need tough love, sometimes. Nicole and Jack. Hi, Delson. I just wanted to thank you for the teaching. I just got a lot out of it today, so I wanted to just tell you I appreciate that. Um, and then I also, just because somebody else was saying stuff about the bugs and stuff, I used to be like very afraid of spiders and would kill them younger. Then as I became older, you know, I started feeling bad for them and releasing them outside. And so this year I tried to save ladybugs because I had learned, I don't know how I came upon it, but that once they come inside they're really supposed to be outside, and they have proteins or something that keep them alive outside, but once they come inside

and it's warm, their bodies think that it's spring or summer and are ready, so if you put them outside, it kills them. So I tried to feed them honey and do what everything said. It said it doesn't always work, so I have a pile of ladybugs over here, and I don't know if they're asleep, because they actually do hibernate, it's called something different, or if they did die or not. So I'm not going to throw them away until I find out for sure. But I did try, it says if it doesn't work, just try again the next year and maybe it'll work. So I really, really try not to kill anything. I'm not scared of spiders anymore. If I see them struggling in the drain, I'll get them and help them. But anyway, I just wanted to ask, in terms of gossip, like at the workplaces and other places, is it wrong? Like when I was working and stuff, especially in the healthcare field, they really gossip

to say, I don't want to be a part of this, or please don't come to me with that stuff, I don't want to hear it. Is it okay to be blunt like that? Because otherwise they think they can come and talk to you about what you care about and stuff. So I would tell them I didn't want to hear it, that I didn't want to be a part of that. It didn't always work. Still, sometimes they would try, but they would start, and I'd be like, I don't want to. If it's what somebody said about me or whatever, I don't want to hear it. Yeah. Is that okay to do?

Absolutely. As long as you're stern, but you're kind. Absolutely. Hey, like, I don't have time for this and I don't have the inclination to hear this kind of stuff. Please find someone else. That's it. Whatever, however you want to put it, in a way that's respectful. Yeah. Okay, all right. I just wanted to clarify that, like, just walking away, you know, that, yeah, it was okay to say I don't want that. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Okay, all right. Thank you, Delson. I was thinking about how people gossip, and Nicole's mentioned, I think it's a habitual tendency that people have that they're not aware of.

And by happy accident, I discovered this one office I was working with. Some nurse came in to backbite the other nurse, and I go, oh, but she gets these pre-authorizations done so fast, I really value her. And either they don't come to me with that, or they start valuing that person, seeing what their strength is. So I try to, I don't get into the gossipy part. I recognize strengths, and thereby either upbeat it, or people just don't come to me with gossip because I'm no fun. But that's so valuable, right? That's wonderful. And somebody comes up about somebody else, talks to you, 'this person's this way,' and if you can just say, 'Hey, and they're also this, and they're also that,' talking about the good things about them.

And that's one way of warding people off that want to gossip, or helping them change their mind. Wonderful. I like that. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I think being you in the face of gossip is important. Different tactics work for different folks. Exactly. That's what it means to be skillful, right? Skillful means. I think there's nothing else. Yeah, maybe one more thing, yes, briefly. Well, since it's Easter, I'm reading a book called One Essence by Robert Wolf, and it's really fascinating. So since it's Easter, I took two sayings from two Christian mystics.

two Christian mystics. I'll read them real quickly. One is from John of the Cross. In order to arrive at being everything, desire to be nothing. And Meister Eichhardt, as long as I am this or that, or have this or that, I am not all things, and I have not all things. When you are neither, or when you are neither, when you, when you neither are, nor have this or that, then you are omnipresent, and being neither this or that are all things. I don't understand it, but it sounds cool. That's kind of where I'm at. It sounds very inspiring, yeah.

Yeah, it's great. I think at the very, very mundane level, you think about the teachings of Jesus. He says, 'The least amongst you will become the greatest.' That's, of course, humility, but also the realization that self-effacement, at the mundane level, I don't need to be the top of my class.

They don't need to be respected and all these things, because these are all to do with the body. These are all to do with things that are impermanent, things that are passing. A hundred years from now no one's going to be watching this YouTube video. A hundred years from now no one's going to remember any of these books. A hundred years from now, let alone 100 years and 50 years from now, 60 years from now, there's so much out there. People will go to what they're inclined to. I'm talking about myself, right? When I look at how I teach or what I do, I put that into perspective. And so who am I teaching for? Am I teaching for greatness? Am I teaching for being recognized as a great teacher? What am I doing? No, I'm just teaching because people want to learn. So far we've got 34 people, out of which hopefully all 34 are still awake and listening.

And benefiting from what I have to say, and that's wonderful. At the supramundane level, what you're saying, my reflection on this is: when we let go of any kind of concept of this or that, here or there, when we let go of light and dark, and we let go of attachment and identification with all concepts and conceptual proliferation, then the mind experiences what's known as vinnanam anidassanam, the non-reflective awareness, an awareness without surface, which knows no bounds. And this is nebotic consciousness.

This is the first awareness that arises, dependent upon having touched the unconditioned: awareness conditioned by contact with the unconditioned. So I leave it at that, and we'll share some merit. May suffering ones be suffering free, and the fear-struck fearless be. May the grieving shed all grief, and may all beings find relief. May all beings share this merit that we have thus acquired for the acquisition of all kinds of happiness. May beings inhabiting space and earth, devas and nagas of mighty power, share this merit of ours. May they long protect the Buddha's dispensation. Sadhu, sadhu, sadhu.