Obsession in the Mind AN 1.1 with Kirsten & Friends -Guest: Delson Armstrong

Great, let's start with paying homage to the Buddha, homage to the Dhamma, and homage to the Sangha. We'll be reading from the Anguttara Nikaya, and this time we're going back to the very first part of the Anguttara Nikaya. One of the things that Bhikkhu Bodhi says about this is that he believes this was placed at the very start of this book because it was really delivered to monastics first, and monastics are of course keeping their precepts. Here we are talking about sensual and lust, and following the precept. One of the first four precepts for monastics are precepts that are called parajikas if they are broken, and so

And in the book it's called defeat. The first one is that if there's any engagement in sexual intercourse, then the monastic is defeated, and as I understand it, then that person can no longer be in the robes, be in via monastic is. Please tell me if that is correct, but that's as I understand it. So it's kind of like a warning, you know, be heedful. But this obsession of the mind, so I'm going to read the first part, and then Delson, have you read the next section here?

Obsession of the mind. Thus have I heard. On one occasion the Blessed One was dwelling at Savatthi in Jeta's Grove, Anathapindika's Park. There the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus. Bhikkhus. Venerable sir. Those bhikkhus replied. The Blessed One said this: Bhikkhus, I do not see even one other form that so obsesses the mind of a man as the form of a woman. The form of a woman obsesses the mind of a man. Because I do not see even one other sound that so obsesses the mind of a man as the sound of a woman, the sound of a woman obsesses the mind of a man.

So Delson, if you want to go ahead and continue here. Yeah. Because I do not see even one other form that so obsesses the mind of a woman, the form of a man. The form of a man obsesses the mind of a woman. Because I do not see even one other sound that so obsesses the mind of a woman as the sound of a man, the sound of a man obsesses the mind of a woman. Because I do not see even one other odor that so obsesses the mind of a woman as the odor of a man, the odor of a man obsesses the mind of a woman. Because I do not see even one other taste that so obsesses the mind of a woman as the taste of a man, the taste of a man obsesses the mind of a woman. Because I do not see even one other touch that so obsesses the mind of a woman as the touch of a man, the touch of a man obsesses the mind of a woman. All right, thank you.

So I think most people would have something to say about this. When the mind is obsessed with someone or something, this is one of the highest and most tempting kinds of cravings that a person can have, and many people probably relate to, at some point, being obsessed with another person, really longing for them. If we're looking at this obsession with this particular thing, really what we want to do when we have craving in the mind is we want to be rid of that craving.

Craving is painful, and so what do we do to get rid of it? Usually it's to indulge in that thing. It's to put a little bit of something on it to get rid of it, and of course that's really just feeding that craving inside. But of course, we know that we can use the 6R's with this, and this is the escape from that intense kind of craving that a person can have within the mind. So Delson, did you want to say anything about this?

Yeah, you brought up something like the sutta brings up something, which is that it's basically biologically driven, that men and women go crazy after each other due to the sight of them or any of these sense bases. But that can happen with many other objects of craving. One of the things that you and I, Kirsten, we briefly talked about was obsession. What does it mean to be obsessed? What does obsession really denote here? And when you think about what craving is, we've always said the craving is tightness and tension that manifests as craving. So it's a sign or a signal that the mind is getting

wound up or caught up in something. So when we have an obsession around something, it's very difficult for us to see beyond that. It's difficult for us to see beyond the object of our craving, the object of our desire, and everything that arises in the sense bases can be filtered through that craving. So what do we need here to let go of that? As you rightly said, the 6R's are a tool, a methodology. It's right effort, it's the intention, it's the application of mindfulness

in the present moment as and when feeling arises, so that we can start to pull away from the craving, pull away from the obsession. So how do we do that, right? The first thing is to recognize, means to notice: the mind is getting caught up, the mind is getting obsessed, the mind is taking things personally. And then releasing that, and just being attentive, being aware, seeing with wisdom, thus, right? That this is not me, this is not mine, this is not myself.

That this is just an experience that is arising in the mind through the sense bases, through the mind itself. And the mind conceives that, perceives and conceives that into something that is to be held, to be controlled, to be craved for, to be pushed away if it's aversion. But at the very root of all of that is the sense of it belongs to me: the eyes, the ears, the nose, the tongue, the body, the mind belongs to me. It is mine, and this experience is mine, and I want to hold on to it. So there are a lot of hormonal and biological factors, obviously, when it comes to these things, but awareness, mindfulness, the ability to have sati sampajanna. Sati here is remembering to observe how mind's attention moves from one place to the other, and sampajanna is the

clear comprehension of what is arising right now. That is giving the space, that's giving the pause before we react into full-blown craving. So the recognize and release, and then the relax, so there's a pause there, there's a space there where the mind is free of that, and our duty then is to replace that with a wholesome object. Here it could be something like, oh, I see this as not me, not mine, not myself. I see this as an impersonal process, and the mind lets go and experiences relief, and relief in itself can be a wholesome object.

Yeah, that's great, and it's interesting too. It's not necessarily that object itself that is the lust; the lust is within already. It's just these different things that bring it out. So men and women are not the problem. It's what's in the mind that we're letting go of. Let's read. So I was trying to remember, I knew that there was another sutta that used... I just saw Mark hold up his hand. Did he want to say something? Yes, what I was thinking while we were going through this is the connection to the heart,

which is being stimulated by all of these different ways, by sight and feeling and smell and so forth, and so there's an internal connection there that is pleasant, as well as can be disassociated from the lust, because it's the feeling of that heart opening which we find in our practice. So the process is a very deep one, and yes, it has a lot of different facets, and although in some facets the craving is the one that we're trying to address, it is also a healing one that we have for ourselves and the people that we're with. So I think there's a tremendously important component here of the heart, and it's being addressed in this sutta in a way that, you know, or it isn't addressed in the sutta yet, but it just seems that this is a very important part of our process of being alive, being happy, being compassionate, and being free from

this kind of suffering. So that's all I wanted to share with you. That's beautiful, Mark. I think I really get what you're talking about there. Yeah, we are people, people. There's true love between beings, so it's not saying that this is all a bad, terrible thing, these kinds of connections here. Well, Kirsten, guys, add a little bit. Yeah, I think we have to look at what the word obsession... Delson, do you have any idea what the Pali would be? I'm guessing it's probably anusayas, but I could be wrong here. My impression is probably anusayas, because that's really the filtration that happens at the level of experience, at the level of Vedana, which doesn't allow us to see beyond that filter, right?

So the obsession, there's the inclination towards craving, inclination towards aversion or identification, whatever it is. And then once we aren't able to see it, then craving fully pops its head up and now we have clinging and becoming and so on. So I'll have to look into it, but that's my... I'm 80% sure it's probably on the sire. Yeah, I was just going to say I think this is a special form of tanha. This is the, obsession means, you think of fantasies, I mean, we're laughing about...

The mind, a woman obsesses over the form of a man or the smell of a man, and it's like, oh my god, really? So this is where the mind goes crazy. It sees something as unrepulsive that's really repulsive. I could never figure out why. I mean, you can understand why men like the form of a woman. You mean it's beautiful and smooth and beautiful, but a man, are you kidding? What could you possibly see? And that's where the obsession, the crazy, the fantasy comes into play, seeing something in a kind of a dream world that's not really there in front of you. And in the same way, also rage is the form of anger, where now there's just no, you can't stop yourself. There's just this, and it's like a heat that comes into the body.

And it just takes over and you have to fulfill it, and it's very hard to relax and let go, because you want to get this thing, but this is the highest, craziest form. And I think we see it out there in the world, where people are into all these deviant things that they're doing and their mind is obsessing into this world. And it's where meditation brings us back down. Anyway, that's my two cents. Yeah, no, that's great, and that's exactly what Bhikkhu Bodhi said. He said, really, that's right. Yeah, that's over the form of a man, I are you sure? And he asked a group, can this really be accurate? But of course lust is in all beings. That's what we're dealing with. I think that's one of the reasons we're here.

But you bring up a really good point about a dream world. It's not seeing things as they are when one falls in love or in lust, there's all this made-up kinds of things in the mind. Yeah, I mean, people play roles, and so they want to be somebody that they're not, so they create these little endless things. I spent a lot of time substitute teaching, years ago, in junior high school and high school. And there was an observation that I made. I didn't see women, men definitely, the boys obsessed on the female form. But the girls, the most attractive ones, often didn't wind up with particularly attractive men.

And I realized, oh, it was the size of the boys' wallet that was the most attractive. They were far more practical. Yeah, they're always looking for the guy with the car. Right. One more comment. Speaking of a professor, when you said that, John, it reminded me that I had a professor who said that he could always tell when one of his college students was in love, because they'd be walking in the air a little bit. So, walking in that fantasy world. All right, so let's read. When I heard this, I was thinking, where else did I hear in the suttas talk about obsession, as in the Kosambiya? So we'll read this and see if we have anything to say about that. So this is just an excerpt from the Kosambiya, Kirsten. Yes. Yeah, while you guys were talking, I wanted to, because David brought up the question of the Pali, so I went back to Sutta Central to see what the Pali is, and the word actually is...

Where did I see it here? It's called pariyadaya. It's not anusaya in this case, and pariyadaya means having taken completely, or encompassing, or covering up. So in this case, when we say obsession, it really is that filtration system. It covers up the mind, it covers up the light of wisdom, right? It's like a veil of ignorance. That fits perfectly with this section. I think the key is right here. So here a bhikkhu goes to the forest, or to the root of a tree, or to an empty hut, and considers thus: is there any obsession unabandoned in myself that might so obsess my mind that I cannot know or see things as they actually are? If a bhikkhu is obsessed by sensual lust, then his mind is obsessed. If he is obsessed by ill will, then his mind is obsessed. If he is obsessed by sloth and torpor, then his mind is obsessed. If he is obsessed by restlessness and remorse, then his mind is obsessed.

If he is obsessed by doubt, then his mind is obsessed. So here you have the five hindrances covering up the light, just as Delson just said. If a bhikkhu is absorbed in speculation about this world, then his mind is obsessed. If a bhikkhu is absorbed in speculation about the other world, then his mind is obsessed. If a bhikkhu takes to quarrelling and brawling and is in deep disputes, verbally abusing each other, then his mind is obsessed. No, any thoughts there, Delson, or anyone? Yeah, it's interesting. So here we're looking at the first five hindrances.

And you connect that with the man and the woman. The obsession here, now that we know the word is covering up, it's filtering with the veil of ignorance. So it says here, I cannot know or see things as they actually are, right? And we should always understand what that means, to know and see things as they actually are.

And the fundamental reality, or the fundamental basis of reality as it actually is, is that it's not personal to anyone. It's not personal to a creator, it's not personal to me, it's not personal to another person or anything. It's just an impersonal process that arises due to causes and conditions. And so connecting that with anusayas, in feeling, which underlying, the underlying tendencies, that's the filtration process. It starts way before with formations that are rooted in greed, hatred, or delusion.

And then the consciousness, the cognition, the vinnana that comes up, is seen as stained. We talk about upakilesas. The upakilesas are that which creates a certain tint for the mind to see the world with. And so the obsession here, again, is that. So, the five hindrances. But I found it interesting, it says here, then, if he is absorbed in speculation about this world or about the other world, that's another thing. You notice this as guides and teachers. If you've spoken to students long enough, from many different schools and many different parts of the world, they're always wondering what is on the other side.

They're always wondering, like, what's the meaning of it all, what's the purpose of life, what is... is there, are there aliens on another planet, is there this or that? What does that have to do with the end of suffering? And it goes back to that. Like the Buddha says, I teach two things, suffering and the end of suffering. The speculative views of, will I exist after this, will I not exist after this? The Buddha says, just go here, look at this, and he points out dependent origination. That's it. That's the key, and the key is to let go with understanding, and that understanding is through dependent origination. I kind of found it a little funny that a bhikkhu brawls. I was imagining that, when you said that, like a bhikkhu with boxing gloves, ready to take on someone else. Anyway, yeah, I love that. I got it, just like a little hit, when you were talking about that speculation of the other world.

Yeah, it's somehow, when I look at it, it's somehow... I thought it was important, like there is this bigger picture, and there is this, but wait a minute, I really don't have to think about that at all. It really just is here and now. This is all that matters. Okay, so let's... we were going to also talk about friendship today, but I think we just had time. We're going to leave that for next week. Instead, next Tuesday we'll go on into that to give it a fair amount of time. So I'm going to stop sharing, and let's see, oh, I see there's some comments here. Oh, I was obsessed with someone for five months, embracing anatta was the cure. Well done. Okay. What's funny is the root word, and the word obsession means to sit, and obsession sits opposite us, but sitting in meditation cures it, the craving to be, the craving to matter. Yeah, and some aversion is a part of obsession too. Absolutely.

All right, and another comment: the evolutionary perspective. Over time, species develop obsession as a way to ensure we procreate and keep the species going. Another possibility. Absolutely, yeah, that's very, very true. Okay, so yeah, we're built for survival, not to see the truth of things. That's interesting. That guy, another teacher, once said that that's not really our goal as practitioners, to survive. We think it is. Someone was talking about whether you could hurt someone in self-defense or not, and they said no, we think that's the goal, to survive, but really, it's not. It's this... yeah. There's a whole school of neuroscientists who have really done some interesting experiments to prove this out. And that was a big aha for me, especially when you start meditating and you're on a retreat and things start to arise, and you're like, oh, I do have a clouded vision of the world in front of me.

Well, what, why is it? It's all DO. It all goes back to DO. But there's also this evolutionary aspect of it. Why is something pleasing? Well, we're wired to procreate and survive, like Delson was talking about. But is that the truth of the matter? Not particularly. So if you have the wisdom to see those two things, I think it can bring some peace of mind.

Yeah, it doesn't lead to our happiness ultimately when we pursue those things. Yeah. All right. So I'm going to go ahead and turn on a timer for 30 minutes. So let's all go ahead and get comfortable. Just allow yourself to sit at ease and upright. Maybe you're bringing the shoulders up and back, and let's take a deep breath in. And let it out.

And another deep breath in, and just letting it out slowly. And let's begin by becoming aware of the body, starting at the top of the head, and scanning down, just kind of like you have a ray shining down. Becoming aware of any tension in the head, in the face. And when you notice that tension, just soften it, relax, let it go.

Noticing tension in the shoulders, the upper back. Noticing any tension in the abdomen, and just letting that go too. Noticing any tension you may be holding on to in the feet and the legs, in the hands and the arms. Allow the abdomen to be soft, let it be relaxed. When you relax the abdomen, it gives a deep relaxation to the whole system. Now let's bring up a smile. Bring up a little Buddha smile with the lips. Bring up a little smile with the eyes. Bring up a smile in the mind.

And now feel the smile in your heart. Feel the smile in your whole body. You can take a moment to feel some gratitude for the body, for any amount of health and wellness that you feel right now, for being alive. Feel this sense of gratitude in your heart. You can even say a thank you, and just feel the warmth of that within your chest, feeling grateful for having the practice, having the time, having friends that we can practice with. And you can also use phrases, all the usual phrases like may I be happy, may I be filled with loving kindness, and put that glowing feeling in your heart. It might feel like a like a reverberating warmth or energy or glow or a sense of ease, and you just rest into that.

like a reverberating warmth or energy or glow or a sense of ease and you just rest into that and when we have distractions or as we just said obsessions in the mind anything that covers up the mind then we recognize that release it relax and smile and come back again to being with that feeling in the heart If there's a restlessness, thinking of what you have to do, it's a little bit of a uncomfortable feeling.

You just relax. Let it be there. Smile. All those things will be there for us to do later. This development of the mind is more important than anything else out there, just taking this time for ourselves. So rest in this feeling of loving kindness for yourself, making these wholesome qualities stronger and stronger within you. May I be filled with compassion.

Just feel that feeling. Compassion is expansive. So right now, just showering yourself in the feeling of metta, loving kindness, compassion, or wherever, however that feeling is for you. And so let's share this feeling with our spiritual friends. We can share it with all the people in front of us. Wherever we all are in the world, we just wish everyone in front of us on this call to be happy, to be filled with loving-kindness.

Just let the feeling gently roll out, a sense of kindness, a sense of warmth. We know we're all seeking happiness together. Let the feeling go out without pushing or without any force. If there's any force, just recognize, release it, and relax. It's almost like taking a little step back. Maybe the feeling starts to go out even further in front of you, two beings on the other side of the screen, beings in the next room, the next house, the next street. We'll be right back. Now let's let the feeling go to all beings behind us, just gently letting it go out on its own, just shining like a radiance with a wholesome intention for all beings behind, just to be well, to be safe and protected.

Smile as you feel that feeling going out. Thank you. And now let's shine that loving kindness to the right, to all beings to the right of us. Just notice how this loving-kindness brightens up the world to your right. You're feeling the happiness of those beings to the right. letting it go to beings who are happy beings who are maybe not happy right now let that bright loving-kindness go out And to all beings on the left of you, just shining your light.

just like a beautiful sunshine on a beautiful day have that beautiful intention in your heart for all those beings to be free of suffering To be truly happy. And just feel it going out. and now let's radiate to all beings above us, in the air, in the sky, in the clouds, and then beyond our atmosphere into space have that wholesome intention for all those beings to be happy and safe protected whether they are in the world we can see Or maybe you imagine the symbolic world with devas and celestial beings, just feeling your loving-kindness. Thank you. Now let's be aware of beings below us, in the ground.

So many beings live in the earth. Just feel your loving kindness going into the earth. I can even feel it going into the whole globe beneath you, bringing your light there and sending your loving kindness to the earth, making things beautiful, bright, kind. And you can radiate also to those beings that are unseen, again, who may be in other realms, the lower realms.

Sharing your loving kindness and compassion with them, and wishing that they'll be free from whatever suffering they have, wishing that they have some relief. Thank you. And for the last minute or so, just come back to radiating to all beings in all directions, all around us, all at once. Coloring our whole world with loving kindness. Just rest in this feeling. Thank you. All right, so let's begin to come back to being aware of being in your seat, being present in your space, noticing the sounds in your environment, opening the eyes and taking a look around. Come back to being present here. Thank you all for meditating together.

And so we'll open it up now for any thoughts. Thank you, Shakti. Any thoughts from anybody? Or anybody, if you... I know Delson, I think he's open to a little Q&A if anybody's interested. Yeah, here's your chance. Yeah, Antra, what came up for me in meditation was that lust. Lust is one of the effluents, and if lust arises it looks for an object, and the object might be based on formations. And if one isn't mindful and doesn't really recognize that feeling, or that particular energy, then if it gets stimulated, then it becomes an obsession.

Yeah, that's great. That sounds like a deep insight, like it was there before there was even an object, went looking for an object to land on. Sometimes the meditation does away with questions and comments. Well, I don't really have any comments, but if anyone has any ideas, thoughts, feel free to share. I was just out doing some digging in the yard the other day, and it was already after midday, and I hadn't eaten yet.

And someone must have been grilling. Oh, there was that. Wow, yes, that smell of grilling. That was just so attractive, and I remember thinking, oh, this is just the same as sex, isn't it? It's just like, oh, I want this now. This is biological, you know? It's like, yeah, it seems really personal. Maybe you know, it's like, oh, I think maybe I should go get something to fulfill this. This is quite an enjoyable experience. Maybe I say grill this, or should I? And then it's like, oh, I know you. I know you. That's the same when I see that nice form going down the street. There's a, oh, look at that. It's like, oh, and it's not really different, is it?

I think, yeah, I mean, this thing about meditation, right? It just ceases all questions and comments and thoughts. I got nothing for you guys right now. Yeah, I, yeah, I, one thought that did come to me, it's like, as I've gotten older, the things that will cause that in the mind are definitely very different. My thing is black licorice. It's so terrible. That's what causes the lust in my mind. All right.

Well, very good then. All right. So I will share our, we'll share some merits then. Let's share some merit. May suffering ones be suffering free, and the fear-struck fearless be. May the grieving shed all grief, and may all beings find relief. May all beings share this merit that we have thus acquired for the acquisition of all kinds of happiness. May beings inhabiting space and earth, devas and nagas of mighty power, share this merit of ours. May they long protect the Buddha's dispensation. Sadhu, sadhu, sadhu.