Delson's 5th Talk on the 8 fold path-Right Collectedness-Jhana-Nibbana

Okay, go ahead, Callan. Yeah, thank you, David. I just want to welcome everyone to this final talk on the Eightfold Path and share our sincere thanks for your attendance over the last few weeks. I'm really glad that we've been able to introduce everyone to freedom of mind. We're really excited to keep you updated with everything we have planned in the next few weeks and months. On that front, I do have something exciting to share, which is that we will be planning a series of online retreats with Delson coming this fall. We'll share all the details with you through the Dhammasuka mailing list for those that are interested in participating. We'll also have more information available on our website, which is going to be launching in the very near future.

So please stay tuned. If you feel moved to support Freedom of Mind, we will have lots of convenient ways to do so on our website once it's launched, but for now please feel free to visit the Dhammasuka donations page, where you can also support Delson directly. We just want to thank you all for coming again to these talks, and we look forward to seeing you at the next and final bonus one on forgiveness next weekend. Okay, so Delson, if I can locate you on the screen. All right, we're going to spotlight you. Okay, all right, take it away. Okay, so today we're going to be doing right collectedness, or what's known as sama samadhi in

Pali. But what does sama samadhi mean? Remember, the word sama means proper, or right, or harmonious, or effective, however you want to put it. What it's saying is it is samadhi which is proper, proper, why? Because it's leading to nibbana. So when you look at the progression that we've gone through in the last few weeks, we started with right view, which is the basic, fundamental, mundane right view, that is the understanding of kamma, the understanding of generosity and giving, and what is sacrificed, what is offered, and so on. Then we go into right intention, which is all about letting go, relinquishing, experiencing the lack of ill will, the lack of any kind of cruelty. That allows us to have right speech, right action, right livelihood. And then finally we went into right mindfulness, which is dependent upon right effort. Right effort is essentially the 6R's, as you guys know, so that leads you into mindfulness. And last week I told you about mindfulness as being, or rather remembering, to observe how mind's attention moves from one object to the other.

So mindfulness then naturally leads to right samadhi, or right collectedness. This word samadhi is a word that's used in different kinds of traditions. We see it in Buddhism, we see it in Hinduism, we see it in Jainism, and they all have different ways of interpreting it. But the commonality about samadhi is that it is essentially two words, or a contraction of two words. Sama, or sam, now that depends on how you interpret it. Sama means to be balanced, or to be harmonious, or to be even. And samadhi is the short form for buddhi, which is our intellect, which is our mind. So samadhi is all about having a mind that is even, that is equal to all things. Or sam means to gather. Yeah, sam, to gather, to collect, therefore we say right collectedness. So traditionally, when we look at right samadhi or right collectedness, it has the four jhanas.

In reality, this is what's really important to understand. In reality, there is only or there are only four jhanas. You know, conversationally or sometimes in the sutras we'll read of the eight jhanas. But in reality, there's the four jhanas and the four ayatanas. The four jhanas are the rupa jhanas, as we understand. The form attainments or the form levels of understanding. And then the ayatanas are essentially experiences that are within the scope of the fourth jhana. So that would be infinite space, infinite consciousness, nothingness, neither perception or non-perception. So the word jhana actually comes from the Sanskrit dhyana.

And dhyana means to study, to look, to understand. So jhana in Pali is essentially levels of understanding. There are also levels of cessation, why? Because they cease coarse mental activity in the beginning, and subtler and subtler mental waves or disturbances, until you come to a point where you have the total cessation of all perception, feeling and consciousness, as a result of which, or from where, that can arise, so to speak, nibbana. Now, in the commentaries it's also said that jhana can come from the word jayati, which is to burn up. In other words, you're burning up the hindrances, you're burning up the impurities of the mind. So I'm not really going to touch too much on the jhanas, because there are so many videos out there now with regards to jhanas.

You can see my videos, you can see Bhante's videos. We talk about jhanas in great detail. And the thing about it is, within this community, I wouldn't say everybody, but within this community there is a certain obsession with jhanas. There's a certain kind of desire to attain this particular jhana or that particular jhana. But if you see David's background, you can't see it now, but his background is the path to nibbana. So this is all about nibbana. It's a nibbana practice. It's not a jhana practice, right? And so if you want to experience right samadhi, right meditation, right collectedness, you need to fulfill the preceding factors. You need to first have right view.

You need to have right intention. You need to exercise right speech, right action, and have right livelihood. You need to cultivate right effort so that you can establish right mindfulness. And naturally so, then what arises is right samadhi, or right meditation, or right collectedness. So what do we mean by the word collectedness? There's another word, which is called ekaggata. Oftentimes ekaggata is translated as one-pointedness, or sometimes it's translated as unification of mind,

where the attention of the mind is completely laser focused, pinpointed on one particular object. But that just suppresses the entire mind. It's not actually helping in any way. All it does is make you very concentrated, very focused, which is good, but ultimately you're not able to deal with the hindrances. This practice is all about dealing with our shadows, dealing with our hindrances, dealing with whatever arises that is causing us suffering, so that we can accept them, we can learn from them, and we can let them go. But in this practice where you're one-pointed, all you're doing is suppressing everything, and when you suppress something it will come back with full force, and you won't know how to deal with them. This is why right effort and right mindfulness is required.

So collectedness is actually the unified mind. The unified mind means, or the unified mindset means, that it's a collection of thoughts that are similar, coming together towards an object, or coming together around an object. One of the analogies that I like to use is the idea that the object of meditation is a planet, and our attention is the satellite dish, or the satellite, rather, that orbits around the planet. Now, if you're too close to the planet, if your attention is too one-pointed towards the object, what happens through that gravitational force? The planet attracts the satellite, and the satellite starts to come down, crashing. If the satellite goes out of orbit, now it's lost. Now the attention of your mind is lost, it's drifting away completely somewhere else. So in order to balance the attention, to keep your mind's attention orbiting in the right way, you need right effort. You need the 6R's. When you have the 6R's you're able to see: is my attention becoming too one-pointed, am I trying too

hard? And if you are, you recognize that, you release your attention from it, you relax any tightness and tension in mind and body, come back to the re-smile, return back to the object and just observe. I've often said if I wanted to save time on all of these Dhamma talks, I would just say six R's and observe, or let go and observe, because that is what leads you to samadhi. Letting go is right effort. Observing is mindfulness, which leads you to collectedness. So when your mind's attention starts to come into orbit around the object, starts to be aware of the object, and has enough spacious awareness, has enough open awareness, so that if a hindrance arises even before it completely captivates your attention, your mindfulness is so sharp there, because of the open awareness, that it can notice it and just let it go, just let it drift away.

But if you become so focused and you just look so closely at that particular object, then you're not able to notice what's going on around you. So it is a balanced effort to make sure that your attention remains on the object but doesn't become obsessed by the object. Now, I talked about the obsession with jhanas. I was talking to Calvin about this, and we were actually discussing this, and he was mentioning looking at this Twitter feed where people are saying, you know, all I want to experience is jhana. I don't care about the insight, I don't care about the wisdom, all I want is jhana. It's like some kind of drug that people are starting to get addicted to. There are retreats out there where people focus completely on jhana, but you're not getting any wisdom from it. What's the point? Yes, it's enjoyable. Yes, it's pleasurable. All of the jhanas are pleasurable, but they are helping you to realize certain levels of

understanding how your mind works. When you come into the jhanas you start to come closer and closer, closer to a mind that is unconditioned. In other words, you're taking the steps towards nibbana. The Buddha has talked about the mind: luminous is the mind, monks, luminous is the mind. But due to adventitious defilements the mind is obscured. In other words, the natural state of the mind is to be pure. Our true nature, as it were, is ultimate happiness. When they started this organization, Freedom of Mind organization, in the beginning I gave all kinds of different names, and one of the names I suggested was ultimate happiness, because that is what nibbana is. It is the ultimate happiness. But some people weren't on board with it, because they said, oh, it could be construed as we're selling drugs or something, you know, we're just talking about pleasure, sensual pleasure, things like that. No, no, ultimate happiness is

unconditional happiness when i was in south india uh later uh late last year i had gone to see one of my former teachers and we were spending some time together and he works in the film industry and he invited me to go and meet with some people who were celebrities in the south indian film industry and they had heard about this practice and they wanted to talk to me and understand what this is all about so i talked to them and he said and the guy said if you would just encapsulate everything in one statement what would it be what is this whole process about what is the goal that we're talking about here and i said it is independent happiness all kinds of happiness that we generally experience in this life are dependent upon circumstances dependent upon people dependent upon our sense experiences but the ultimate happiness the true happiness the true nature of our minds is nibbana it is the unconditioned independent happiness an ever-flowing source of happiness that doesn't require anything it is that dimension that is uncreated unmanifested untainted unformed and it's deathless that

dimension and the way to access that is the eightfold path that is it the buddha had said this is the only way to nibbana is the eightfold path because he understood during his time that people were doing all kinds of practices that led to different experiences he himself tried out these different practices he tried out going into nothingness he tried out going into neither perception nor non-perception he tried going into ascetic practices he did so many different extreme ascetic practices it will blow your mind but in the end he let go of those and when his five companions in the holy life at that time saw that he had stopped being ascetic they left him thinking he has given up the path but he reminisced or he went back into a time when he was young a young boy with his father and they had gone to the fields for the harvest festival and he was sitting under a rose apple tree and in thinking about that

there was a natural kind of joy that arose, a mental joy that arose. It was not a joy dependent upon seeing something, hearing something, tasting something, smelling something, feeling something with the skin. It was a mental kind of joy, and he thought, perhaps this is the way to true awakening. And so he sat under the Bodhi tree, and then he went through the four jhanas. Going through the four jhanas, he then went through what are known as the tevijja practices, the three vijja practices. The three knowledges are the recollection of one's past lives, the seeing of the arising and passing away of beings according to their kamma, so he had direct insight into the nature of kamma, and then the third knowledge was full awakening, arahantship, realizing now that this mind is free from the taints of, uh, sensual desire, free from the taint of existential craving, free from the taint of

ignorance. And so therefore he declared, I have been fully awakened, and so on. But he went through this process of the jhanas, the four jhanas, and then went through the triple knowledge, and then experienced Nibbana, and then he understood dependent origination. He understood how this process of dependent origination works. This is what is important. The jhanas are stepping stones towards that wisdom. Indeed, it is samatha and vipassana yoked together. This is what TWIM stands for, T-W-I-M: Tranquil is the samatha, the serenity; the wisdom and insight is the vipassana, the clarity, the seeing with wisdom what is arising and passing away. And then other aspects of wisdom: seeing that this whole process is impersonal, that it doesn't belong to me. There is no I here. There is no me, mine, or myself. It is all just a process. And seeing that, the mind lets go and experiences the different conditions first hand. It's like everything slows down, and the mind is able to capture the different frames of reality. You're able to see the zeros and ones of the

matrix, and then experience Nibbana. Sometimes it happens the other way around. You let go completely, you have the experience of Nibbana, and then when you come back up, you see the matrix for what it is. So my suggestion to all of you is not to be obsessed by jhanas. Just see them for what they are. They are impersonal, impermanent processes that arise from conditions. When the conditions are ripe, they will arise. What does that mean? There is another sutta, Samyutta Nikaya 12.23, the Upanisa Sutta, and that is basically transcendental dependent origination. It's called transcendental dependent origination, but really what it is, is the steps towards liberation of the mind. What it's referring to is, you start off with faith, which is in tandem with right view.

That faith then leads to pamojja, which is gladness in the Dhamma, gladness because you have let go using right intention, and because you're keeping the precepts with right speech, right action, right livelihood. You start to experience levels of joy. That gladness leads to joy. That joy then leads to tranquility, and that is the sukha. That tranquility is comfort in the body, which we experience in the first and second jhana. And then after a while you experience samadhi, the collectedness of mind, and then you experience other processes like this: equanimity, or seeing things as they actually are, and so on. And then from there you experience disenchantment, this passion, and then vimutti. So that is cetovimutti. That is the name of that organization. Freedom of mind comes from that word, cetovimutti. What does it mean? Freedom of mind, what does that mean? Cetovimutti is a mind that is free of any greed, hatred, or delusion. It is a mind that is experiencing Nibbana all the time, in that sense. So collectedness: once you have all the path factors, the seven preceding path factors, samadhi naturally arises. You look at the enlightenment

factors right you have mindfulness you have investigation of states you have energy you have joy you have tranquility, you have collectedness, and then you have equanimity. In the fourth jhana, the factor of the fourth jhana, the major factor of the fourth jhana is equanimity, but actually it is purity of mindfulness due to equanimity. Why? Because when you start to develop the enlightenment factors as a result of letting go as a result of practicing the six hours as a result of the mind starting to become mindful aware of what's going on that mindfulness leads into investigation of states that mindfulness leads into discernment of states understanding what is present and what is not present the mind has craving i will let it go the mind is not without is without craving i'm okay i'm staying there that investigation leads to the energy the exercising of right effort do i need to let go of something or am i okay it balances out the energy that naturally leads to the joy of the first and second jhana that's called the piti that's an emotional or mental kind of joy.

This is why the Buddha talked about the many kinds of feeling in Majjhima Nikaya 59. And he talks about the pleasure, the pleasant feeling, that is beyond just the sense basis, and that is jhanas. That is the piti of the first and second jhana. That joy then results in tranquility, a mind and body that is relaxed, a mind and body that is calm. As a result of which there is collectedness, and from that collectedness there's equanimity. What is equanimity? Equanimity is another word for yatha bhuta nanadassana, seeing, or the knowledge and vision, of things as they actually are, seeing reality as it actually is. When the mind sees reality as it actually is, it has an experiential understanding, through penetrative wisdom, into the nature of all conditioned experience, which is that they are, yeah, okay, that they are

impermanent, that they are liable to cause suffering, and that they are impersonal. It's through that equanimity that you're able to see these things, or by seeing these things your equanimity deepens. And then that equanimity informs the next arising of mindfulness. That mindfulness then informs the next arising of investigation of states. That investigation of states informs the next arising of energy, then the next arising of joy, then the next arising of tranquility, then the next arising of collectedness, and so on and so forth, until it becomes consolidated into the fourth jhana. Now, from this fourth jhana, all kinds of things can happen. You can do all kinds of things. You can direct the mind to the triple knowledge.

You can direct the mind towards one of the triple knowledges. You can direct the mind towards the cultivation of different kinds of siddhis, or powers. You can direct the mind towards the ayatanas. Direct the mind towards experiencing infinite space, direct the mind towards then experiencing infinite consciousness, experiencing nothingness, neither perception or non-perception. Of course, this happens naturally. But for an advanced practitioner, they can direct their mind immediately wherever it wants to go.

Right now, I want to go into infinite space. There I am. I want to go into neither perception or non-perception. There I am. So this practice allows you to develop that skill. Why would you want to develop that skill? For bragging rights, so that you can show off to people and tell them, I can do this and I can do that? It's so that your mind becomes malleable. When your mind is malleable, it is free of any kind of constriction. It can go anywhere it pleases. It can do whatever it pleases, or under the direction of volition. And so once this is mastered fully, the mind can go into Nibbana whenever it wants. It can go into Nirodha whenever it wants.

This is the process. Now, a greater obsession arises, greater than the obsession of the jhanas. And that is the obsession of, or the obsession for, Nibbana. When you least expect it, your mind goes into Nibbana. In other words, when the mind is free from any kind of craving, when you're, let's say, in the eighth jhana or you're in the signless state or wherever you might be, there is this expectation: okay, any minute now, you know, it can happen. I saw Bhante's videos. He was talking about this particular place. I think that's where I am. Or my guy told me this is where you are. Just keep going. Well, I read David Johnson's book, and now I think I'm here in the Echana.

I'm just there. I'm about to get into cessation. But that I'm about to get into. You're basically in the waiting room of craving, waiting for something. That is craving. Last year when I was in Damasuka, when I was leaving from Damasuka and going to Boston to visit with Venerable Netananda, we were on the line at the airport and I told him, waiting is basically samsara. We wait for everything in this life. And that's samsara. We're waiting in line to check out our items at the store. We're waiting in line to check in at the hotel or for our flights. We're waiting for payment to come through. We're waiting, staring at the microwave for a minute for our food to heat up as it rotates.

Just waiting constantly. And that has trained our mind, for better or worse, to always expect to be waiting. And in that process of waiting, we are anticipating and that anticipation causes restlessness in the mind. And from that restlessness, there arises only more mental proliferation. So when you stop waiting, when you are just there for the sake of being there, meditating for the sake of meditating, not meditating for anything. Yes, there is a goal, that is the full awakening of the mind, but that is the chanda, that's the wholesome desire

becoming obsessed by that desire is the craving. But once we let go of the obsession and say, okay, we're just going to breeze through, let's see what happens. Let's just see what happens. That has become, apparently, my catchphrase amongst the people who know me. All I say is, let's just see what happens. What should we do? Oh, let's just see what happens. What do you think is going to happen? Let's just see. Sometimes it frustrates people because they want a clear answer right now, and other times it relaxes people. You're like, yeah, we don't need to worry about this right now. We'll just see how things go.

So, don't wait for Nibbana. Just be there. Be completely there. When you least expect it, it will arise. It will happen. In my own personal experience, I will say, for example, when I did the online retreat with David that many years ago, whenever it was, I recall being in nothingness and just radiating equanimity. And then all of a sudden, everything just stopped. I didn't know it stopped.

I just came back up and oh, something happened and there was some stuff that arose and all these other things, and I wrote my report to David on the online retreat, and then he asked me a couple of questions, and then he said oh okay, and looks like he went for a swim. But the point being is that it can happen anywhere. It can happen from the first jhana onwards. It doesn't mean that you have to go sequentially from the first jhana to the second jhana to the third jhana, fourth, all the way up to the eighth. It can happen in any of the jhanas when you least expect it. Why? Because you're just there. You're right there. There's no anticipation. It's just, okay, this is where I am, this is what's going on. But guess what? The second time around, when I went through this process, I knew what to expect, and so I'm waiting for Nibbana to happen. I'm waiting for that process to unfold

again, and I told David I'm waiting. That's what happens the second time around. The first time is easier because you have no idea what's going on. The second time around is much more difficult. So the information that you have through the TWIM community, through the experience of the jhanas, Bhante's explanations, my explanations, David explains, David's explanations, all the other TWIM teachers who talk about jhanas, it's like a double-edged sword. We're giving you information. We've told you what you could see in your practice, what could happen on your journey to nirvana. And it's great because it's also there in the suttas, in Majjhima Nikaya 111, which is the one we usually read. There Sariputta goes through all of the jhanas, the four jhanas, and then the four ayatanas, and then experiences cessation, perception, feeling, and consciousness.

And then from his seeing through wisdom, experiences Nibbana, and then obtains arahant. So all of the information that we're giving you is just to let you know the stepping stones. It's just to say this is where the map leads. This is what's happening. But what has invariably happened is that people become obsessed by the stepping stones of the map. So this is what I'm hammering into you guys, this point. Don't become obsessed by the process. Don't get caught up in the stepping stones. Don't even keep your eye on Nibbana because you're going to be expecting it. You're going to be craving for it. Just be like an explorer. Yes, there's all of these preconceived notions of what Nibbana could be, what the jhanas could be like, what do I have to experience, what are the emotional tones, what are the mental experiences, and all of that.

But what happens there is then the mind starts to create it for you. So try to have that beginner's mind. When I saw Bhante for the first time, when I met him physically for the first time, it was in San Francisco, at San Juan Bautista, and we had a great conversation. I think it was about 45 minutes, maybe an hour, between myself and David and Venerable Upasaka, and the question arose: how did you get here? What was the process? Why is it that it happened in this way for you? And it's basically what I said was, it's beginner's mind

I didn't have any expectations. Didn't know what to expect. First of all, I think I was blessed with that level of ignorance, because when I watched Bhante's videos I had no idea what Buddhism was about. I had no idea what the Dhamma was about. I had no idea what Bhante was talking about at all. I was just listening to the videos. Okay, this is cool, whatever jhana is this, that whatever, respectfully. But I was just listening to him and doing the practice. I wasn't like saying, oh, he's talking about this genre, he's talking about relief, he's talking about the arising and passing away of this consciousness, and all of that. That is so cool, that's amazing. I didn't have any of those thoughts. I was just listening without any expectations, went back into my practice, practised, had no preconceived notions, and then it just happened. Like I said, the second time around it was more difficult. But once you get the hang of it, and you realize oh, mind is craving for Nibbana, it's the greatest irony. The mind craves for Nibbana. It craves for the cessation of craving

So how did I let go of that? Well, if you have ever had a chance to read those reports, you will see what I said to David was, I decided to take a step back. My intuition told me to go into compassion and radiate compassion again. So I radiated compassion, went through compassion, went through infinite space, went through infinite consciousness, went back into nothingness, and then the mind was quiet. Mind was silent. You didn't have any waiting games going on. So that's the key for you guys. If you have this obsession over, I have to attain nirvana, know that there's restlessness in the mind, there's craving in the mind. So how do you deal with it? Take a step back, or take a couple of steps back, go back to radiating compassion. No big deal, because what this does is it starts to rebalance on its own the enlightenment factors. And when you rebalance the enlightenment factors, then the mind becomes quiet. That is the pabhassara citta, the quiet mind that we speak of. That is the luminous mind

free of any kind of adventitious defilements. And then the key is to stay there, just stay there, just be there for as long as you can. But they would always tell his students, sit there and don't do anything, just sit there for three hours, just sit there. And there would be some students who would get up before that, and he would say no, you have to sit longer, you have to just keep sitting, because they were bored. That was the big word, the big B word, that you never used in front of Bhante, because boredom is another kind of craving. Boredom comes from this expectation. I want something to happen. Come on, nothing's going on.

So the mind is just agitated. It's like, I need something to happen. And so what will it do? It'll start to create all kinds of scenarios. It's thrown all kinds of formations at you, all kinds of, oh, this might be a past life. I should go into this and look at what's going on here. Or, oh, that's an interesting idea. Maybe I should grasp that and look into this. That is the restlessness that the mind throws at itself. Or because of boredom, it says, oh, this doesn't make any sense to me. I don't want to keep doing this. And it will start to drift into sloth and torpor. Sloth and torpor is essentially a mind that is dull.

It can't remain collected anymore. It's lost interest in the object of meditation. That's where you do the balancing act. You have too much restlessness? Go back a few steps. Cultivate equanimity again. Or just microdose on some tranquility. Relax a little bit. Just intend, okay, relax, and wait and see how that starts to transition into actually relaxing. If the mind has sloth and torpor, what do you do? A little bit of interest, a little bit more collectedness, a little bit more focus, a little bit more energy, pay a little bit more attention, closer attention to what's going on. Don't have to do big steps, small micro steps, and then they start to conjoin together to create that experience. So, right samadhi, right collectedness, is just another stepping stone towards what happens when you become fully awakened, which is you unlock some DLCs for those of you who are in computer gaming or have an Xbox or whatever. You understand what I'm saying. But that's basically you unlock bonus content. It's like you've watched the movie, now you go and go back to the DVD and you look at some bonus

Footage or the making of right, some deleted scenes and things like that, that is the tenfold path. So now we've gone from the eightfold and we've added two more, that is samma nyana and samma vimutti. What is samma nyana? Samma nyana means right knowledge, right wisdom, right insight. What is that wisdom? What is that insight? What is that knowledge? The seeing of the links of dependent origination, the consolidation, the establishment of that wisdom that is unshakable, akuppa as it's known in Pali, unshakable. Once you have seen it you cannot unsee it. Once you have known it you cannot not know it. So this wisdom that arises is seeing into the nature of reality itself, and as a result of which your mind

shifts. Now you see reality for what it is. It might happen in increments, that's why we have the levels of awakening and so on, but in the case of somebody who's fully awakened, that right wisdom is on all the time. They have established the understanding of dependent origination completely. They've seen dependent origination in all ways, in all time frames, you know, forwards, backwards, forwards and backwards, inside out, upside down, sideways, in every conceivable framework. And you ask that mind, okay, explain to me dependent origination. Well, they'll ask you, how much time do you have? How deep do you want me to go into dependent origination, right? You can spend one portion of one link and you can discuss it all day long because you understand it fully.

Until you get there, yes, you have some understanding because now you see things as an impersonal process. So you've let go of the notion of a personal self. You realize that everything that arises and that the mind identifies with as a self is nothing more than an impersonal process. And then you have deeper insights as you keep going into this process until it becomes completely established in the mind. And then you have the tenth part of the tenth full path, which is samma vimutti. Vimutti or vimukti means freedom, liberation. The right kind of freedom, the right kind of liberation. What does that mean? The liberation from greed, hatred and delusion, the liberation from the three asavas, the taint of sensual desire, the taint of existential craving, the taint of ignorance.

So this right liberation, some of the vimutti, this right freedom, is also a state of mind, so to speak, that can be accessed. It's almost like a different kind of jhana, if you will. It's not a jhana, but it's an experience that a fully awakened mind can go into, and it can basically enter nibbana when it wants. See, the fully awakened mind is already in nibbana 24/7 because this has no greed, hatred and delusion. But what happens is you've been walking for a long time now, you just need to rest. So it's a pleasant abiding. It's the mind that withdraws like a tortoise from all of the different aggregates, and all it is, is in nibbana. So there's nibbana with remainder, for the mind of an arahant, the functional mind of an arahant, where there's nibbana plus the aggregates. So that's the mind free of any greed, hatred and delusion. And then there's nibbana without remainder, which is generally understood as parinibbana, the final experience of nibbana that an arahant or Buddha goes through before there's the complete dissolution of the

aggregates, but there's also the nibbana without remainder, where the mind withdraws from the aggregates and there's just the experience of nibbana. So these things are possible, these things are available to everyone, can be made available to everyone if they follow the eightfold path. There's no need to continue to try to analyse everything all the time, for the sake of knowledge, for the sake of understanding, for the sake of, okay, this is what happens when you do this, this is what happens when you do that, okay, these are the steps I have to take, these are the qualities of mind that I have to cultivate for that ultimate peace, for that ultimate happiness. That's all. As soon as you bring in that thinking mind that becomes obsessed with this, that or the other, it's actually preventing you from going deeper. So once you know how to take the steps, once you know what is the process, walk the path, just keep

walking. Maybe you don't know where you're going, maybe you do know where you're going, it doesn't matter. Just enjoy what's going on around you. Right, you're in the first jhana, okay, just observe what's going on in the first jhana. All right, here's the joy, here's the vitakka, here's the vicara, here's the thinking and examining thought, here is the comfort in the body. Or you're in the third jhana, okay, here is the collectedness, here is tranquility, here is the cessation of any kind of joy, now the mind is more collected. Or you're in the second jhana, okay, here is more self-confidence, here is the disappearance of thinking and examining thought.

So make it a game. How many times have you heard Bhante say that? Make it fun, enjoy the process, make it like a game. All right, today I'm going to go and see what happens. It's a new Netflix show that you're watching. You don't know what's going to happen, who knows what the next episode is going to show you. You're just in it, you're immersed in it. In fact, one of the translations for samadhi is immersion, that's a good translation actually, to immerse the mind into these levels of understanding, and then naturally it will unfold, naturally it will progress towards deeper and deeper levels of understanding, towards deeper and deeper levels of cessation, until you get towards nibbana, whenever that happens. Why do you want to spoil the fun? Would you watch a new Netflix show and watch the last episode and spoil the whole thing for you? Just go through it.

Just observe what's going on. Have fun with it. Stop being so serious with it. Once you see this, once you have fun with it, once you realize that it's just all a game, then everything just falls into place. everything becomes natural this is why the buddha has said one who has naturally who has faith it is it is natural for them to go into pamoja it is natural for them to go into joy in other words there is volition there but there's no there is no need to do anything you just observe and allow things to happen allow things to happen stop getting in the way of yourselves just let the flow happen and when you least expect it nibbana will happen

So yeah, it's good to study the books, it's good to study the suttas, it's good to study the videos. But once you know them, once you understand it, go back to your sitting. Go back to sit and just observe. Be like a scientist. You don't have to closely observe, but just understand, okay, this is what's happening. Cool. This is interesting. Keep going. Go back to Majjhima Nikaya 111 and what it says over there, what Sariputta does. Having seen these states arisen, he understood that they had passed away. In other words, he's seeing the impermanent nature of all of these states. You don't need to perfect the experience of the jhanas. You just need to know, okay, this is what's going on.

Keep going, keep going, keep going, keep going. Keep letting go. Keep six iron, keep six iron, keep six iron. And then the mind will start to go into that quiet space where there's no vibration at all, and then you might even see deeper things like the signless state, and so on and so forth, because there are different layers you can see depending upon your mindfulness. But in any case, when you get to that quiet mind you now understand what it means to be free of all thought. The mind is constantly thinking about this, that or the other, even when you don't want it to. It's always going to look at this and think about that. It's going to go into a default mode network, which is thinking about the past or thinking about the future or thinking about me, mind, myself. But just imagine if you can bring that quiet mind into your everyday life. You can, it's absolutely possible, no thoughts at

all, and if you can keep that going you never know what could happen. All of a sudden the body happens, it has happened, when the dishes and the mind becomes, it pops, and they have an experience. It can happen while listening to a Dhamma talk, it can happen while contemplating, not that you have to keep thinking about it, but just understanding the Dhamma and then letting go. So keep the practice up without any expectations, just do things, just do it. Right, that's what Nike says, just do it. I think last summer was it, we went to see Top Gun 2. That was a great movie, that was a lot of fun. And in that, the character that Tom Cruise plays, he's the mentor, now he says to the younglings, don't think, just do.

It's very similar to Master Yoda when he says, do or do not, there is no try. Why? Because when you start to think, when you start to try too hard, you trip yourself up. You stop that flow from going on. So stop thinking, just allow things to happen, allow things to be. You can apply this in daily life as well. There's so much more peace for you when you don't have to think about this, that or the other, at least for the majority of time. Yes, you have to analyse things, you have to write an email, you have to plan out things, you have to go to meetings, you have to do this, that or the other, but you can make those fun as

well. You can ask the board of freedom of mind. Sometimes I'm there, I'm not part of the board, I'm not a voter or anything, I just go there for fun, and I'm like the guy who, you know, I'm like the kid like everybody else is, like, at the boardroom at the board meeting sitting around, and I'm like the toddler with the tricycle just going around the table, you know, making jokes and just trying to have fun with everyone. It's a wonder how they get things done with me around, but everybody has fun. That's the main key, have fun with it, don't make it so serious. That is my last word to you today. Any questions? All right, Delson, thank you. That's a great talk, I think you're in the zone.

So we'll ask for some questions now. Hey Delson, can I ask a question? I don't know how to put up a hand, so I'll do this. Hand, okay. I'll see you, Brian. Okay, you were talking about independent happiness. I wonder, for the last few years I've been having these spontaneous experiences of just, for no reason, just like more than happiness, just bliss. And I wonder if there's that nirvana kind of bleeding through once in a while, that would be interesting. What are you doing? Nothing. It just happens. I'm walking and all of a sudden, you know, it can be in the kitchen, while I'm driving, just... but it's pretty blissful. I mean, sometimes my body goes in weird positions and starts shaking around.

stuff. Yeah, it can happen. These are called kriyas. In other words, the body will go into different movements and things just automatically, and that's because the body is experiencing these great feelings of joy and so on. So not necessarily that it's nibbana, but it's definitely a great amount of joy that might arise, a great amount of bliss, that might be onset by something much deeper in the consciousness. My suggestion to you is, when that does happen, is to just observe it, right, and be with it, because your attention to it will actually allow it to prolong. And then you could, if you want, make that an object. Or maybe the bliss starts to recede and it's much more equanimous. But just go with it, just follow along the path as it arises. Great talk, Delson is fantastic as usual. I don't know how you can remember all this.

stuff. Okay, thank you. Uh, David, you're next. Thank you. Thank you, David. Thank you, Delson. Just a quick question about dependent polarizing. You mentioned getting to a point of, I think you said, independent mind. Obviously that's, I guess, a state of nirvana. But I'm just... I don't want to get too philosophical or too in my head around this, and I understand the drive, the enlightenment drive, for it. But just in principle, if we take seriously dependent origination, isn't everything dependent, so that there is never any state of sort of independent or non-origination? I mean, so samsara is nirvana, nirvana samsara. Maybe in the more Mahamudra tradition. I'm just, again, I don't want to get stuck in the philosophy behind it, but just as a practice, when I'm dropping into the wisdom of dependent origination.

I can't seem to find a place to rest in that independence that you're talking about. So I'm sure, relax, let go. I get it. Just wondering what you'd say about that. So that's why I talked about when the Buddha said that Nibbana is the uncreated, the unformed, the unborn, the deathless. In other words, it is the only element, so to speak, that is outside of the scope of dependent origination. We talked about transcendental. We touched a little bit upon transcendental dependent origination as being that is really a dependent liberation or a dependent letting go.

But Nibbana is outside of the scope of any conditioned experience. The best way to get close to it, the best way to get as close to it as possible, is to let go of any thoughts that arise right here, right now, and there is this small space that's there that's like a month. That's what we call the mundane nirvana. And all you do is allow the mind to rest in those spaces, and eventually those spaces will become longer and longer and longer, until it becomes quieter and quieter and quieter. And you're, you know, steps away from Nibbana, outside of dependent origination. Because that space is basically the space between one link and the other.

It's outside of the scope of dependent origination. Okay. Actually, I have a question from last week from Ken. It's an interesting question. There's the mind, but there's also the brain. So how do they interact with each other? What is the difference? How do we look at that? So the brain is, sometimes you could call it, there's different words for it. There's the mano, there's the citta, there's the chetana, there's all of these different words for it. But just to simplify, the brain is part of the rupa part of nama-rupa. In other words, it's a physical component.

It's like the hard drive, and all of the things that happen in reference to the mind, because mind is made up of what it's made up of: contact, feeling, perception, intention, attention. So the brain is the hardware, and the components of mind, which are these faculties that allow these processes to happen, are the software. So when we talk about the chitta, for example, chitta can be the mindset. Sometimes it's translated as heart, sometimes it's translated as mind, whatever you want to call it, but it is what is functioning through the process, through the faculty of the brain itself. But that doesn't mean that the mind originates from the brain. It's just this facilitator. But the mind, you can't say the mind is just here, or you can't just say the mind is just here at the heart. The mind pervades all

The brain is just a facilitator. It's an organ, it's a physical organ, and the mind is, you can say not exactly, but just for your understanding, the electrical currents that seep through the nervous system, that then create an experience. And that creation of an experience is the mind itself. So all of samsara is, in that sense, mind made. Mind is chief. Mind is the forerunner of all states, because it is that which creates the matrix. Mind is samsara. It is that which brings up all of the ones and zeros, interprets all of those ones and zeros into whatever the matrix wants to show you, or whatever the mind wants to see in the matrix.

There is a question from the chat. I have been meditating, closing eyes. I'm curious if it's possible to open eyes and get into jhanas, and would you recommend it? It's definitely possible, but for beginners, I would often recommend that they close their eyes. As you start to get deeper and you get more advanced, people can just be walking in jhana. This is what's known as celestial walking.

So definitely possible. Okay, but only recommended for advanced practitioners. Yeah, go ahead, Satchi. Yes, thank you, Delson. Thank you, David. Johnson, Dammasuka, thank you. Freedom of mind for inspiring many people to walk in the path of happiness. Thanking you. Oh, very good. Thank you. Sadhu, sadhu, sadhu. Let's see, another question from the chat. Oh boy, reincarnation. I have a question regarding right view and reincarnation. If there is no self, no soul, what is it that reincarnates from one incarnation to the other? Can we call this the self? Can you please talk a little bit, in simple words, about anatta and shunyata? So nobody ever said that there is no self. In Buddhism, we call anatta that which is not self.

So reincarnation and rebirth are two different things. Reincarnation presupposes an illusory self that goes from lifetime to lifetime and accumulates karma and becomes beholden to that karma, and so on and so forth. Some call it the jivatma in Sanskrit, and so on. But rebirth is the arising and passing away of impersonal processes. And it is the mind, in that moment, that takes these impersonal processes and identifies as me, mine, or myself, and thus causes itself suffering. But if it sees it as just an experience and nothing more than an experience, then it realizes the emptiness of self. Not that there is no self, but that it is empty of any kind of permanent personal self.

And that there is no pervasive identity in it. So it's not that something reincarnates or takes rebirth. It is processes that happen from moment to moment. Let's forget about lifetime to lifetime, even from moment to moment. You as a person that you identify with are not the same person that you identified with five years ago, or a year ago, or six months ago, or six weeks ago, or one week ago, or one day ago. It keeps changing. And so what the Buddha is pointing out is that the five aggregates, all things that are conditioned, are not self, are to be taken as not self, are not to be taken personally. And he even went to that extent and he said that even nibbana is not self. Next question. Okay, all right. Boris, hello Delson, thank you for this wonderful talk today. And I have a very practical question today about what I would call piti that's out of control after a physical retreat.

So, without going into details, basically you return back to your normal life, to your work life. And for several weeks onwards, you basically feel that your mind naturally wants to go to dissolution. And as a part of that, strong piti occurs. But work life is going on and I'm still this person doing, have to do my thing. So is there anything that you can recommend for practitioners to basically integrate these things into normal work schedules? And what kind of practices have you been doing? Twin practices. It's basically metta practices, and

During the physical retreat there was a silent formal lunch, and after that, thank you for listening. So this disillusionment that arises, this enchantment with things that arise, is actually a natural arising process that happens because the mind starts to see, none of this is interesting. And at that point you have to see what actually goes on, and you can actually decide to temper or to balance out the piti. If there's too much piti, then you can bring up tranquility in your mind. You can start to ground, let's say, the mind or your being, into having some more tranquility. So take a break from whatever it is you're doing and do some kind of grounding practice that relaxes you, that allows you to feel more in the body, more in tune with the

physical. Not that you have to have any sensual desire and things like that. All it means is just start to become more present and aware of the moment, and become more aware of just what's going on in the body right here. And as you do that, you start to temper that joy, because that joy can take you somewhere else. It can take you away from the present moment, and it has happened where people are so invigorated and so enamored by that joy they forget what they're doing, and it can be disconcerting for some people. So grounding practices really help. That could be any kind of practice that feels like you can come back to the awareness of your

Body. So going back to anapanasati, safe thing. Well, you could do that, but you could also just look at what's happening in the body. You could just observe: okay, this is what's going on in the body. Just okay, there's tension in the body, I'm letting it go. There's this going on, I'm letting it go. Or try to bring that piti back into the body, let it pervade throughout the body. Or try to locate where the method is coming from, or where the compassion is coming from, or whatever it might be, because I understand everybody here, or the majority of everyone here, is in some kind of lay life. So while you are in the lay life you have certain functions that you have to perform, and while you need to function you can't just be completely out there all the time. So for that, the integrated approach is, as simple as coming back to the smile again. The smile is something very physical, yeah. So then the mind starts to consolidate around that, and as you start to consolidate

around that it starts to hone in on the present and the activities that are to be done in the present. Thank you so much. Okay. It looks like there's no questions up right now, but maybe Delson you can elaborate on, I think you have a term for the jhanas that we're practicing, ariyajhana, and making a differentiation between the other guys. Yeah. So there is what I call ariyajhanas, or what is known as ariyajhanas. A-r-i-y-a, ariya means noble, because it's related to the noble eightfold path, and then there's the anariya, not u-n, it's a-n in the Pali, it means ignoble, or that which is not noble.

because it doesn't follow the eightfold path, and what that means is there's the sammasamadhi, which is the right collectedness, and there's the micchasamadhi, which is the incorrect, so to speak, because it doesn't take you to nibbana. And these kinds of practices can be practices related to being very one-pointed, way too focused, way too laser focused, and that can bring about all kinds of problems. Trying to integrate into this process, a lot of people experience just this very spaced out feeling, or even worse they can experience psychosis in the very most extreme cases. But in any case, this ariya jhana arises because right view is not present, the understanding of letting go is not present. It's just gathering up, building, building, building, to essentially construct an experience, and so that's the constructed, conditioned experience. But rather, with the ariya jhanas, it arises, or it happens, as a result of letting go. So it's a deconstructive process, the ariya jhanas, and they're called ariya because they follow the route of the eightfold path.

They require the preceding factors of right view, right intention, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, to take you to that ariya samadhi or that ariya jhana. Okay, thank you. Apple Pie, you have got your hand raised. Go ahead. I cannot, yeah. Alex, I think Alex also, yes. Hi Delson, I think Apple Pie posted in the chat. Oh okay, okay. Did you have a question, Alex? No, okay. Thank you Delson. Take a look at the chat and see if you want to actually get into this. Yeah, I think Apple Pie did bring up something very interesting for Delson. Okay, okay. I'm curious about your experience with the 16 year old samapati after coming out of meditation. Do you feel extra hungry, and did you notice any weight loss? Yeah, and yeah, definitely. I mean, if you're not eating for six days, how are you going to feel? Definitely I want some KFC, you know, or something, maybe a good piece of steak. But did I notice any weight loss? Yeah, for sure, for sure.

so you recommend this for uh dieting uh neroda well i mean you know uh not long term not long yeah no no longer than seven days correct this is this is the seven day neroda diet good for mind and body please say something yeah yes david it's abiza here yeah abiza go ahead Yes, Delson, thank you so much for the definition of Anatta. What you have explained is so broad, I mean it doesn't go with the concept of or rather not self is not a very good explanation of Anatta. I feel like that and the explanation that you gave really confirms it that this is how it is.

Like, even nibbana is supposed to be anatta, right? Thank you so much. Thank you. Willie, go ahead. Thank you for your beautiful talk today, this whole series. So you were talking about, don't obsess on nibbana, but I feel like that can arise for me at any stage. I just came off of a retreat, and I noticed when I enter retreat I kind of am obsessing about quieting the mind, and then the mind quiets, and then I move along, and then there's a new wanting. And one of the things besides jhana that one can become obsessed about are

extraordinarily pleasant and unique experiences that can occur while you're in a very quiet state, and saying don't obsess, let go. I don't know, there's a trick in there. I can't, there's nothing to hold on to in terms of just do it, you know? I don't know. I mean, it seems like I've been playing with that for decades in practice. Okay, let's let Delson. So if you look at it, it's like a dichotomy, actually. If you look at it, there is an obsession, which is for understanding, for the sake of understanding. It's the analytical part of the mind that wants to achieve something, that's obsessed by achieving something. And then there is that part of the brain, let's say it's right brain activity, or that part of the mind that is more spacious and expansive, and there's a quality of awareness to it. So if you can bring more awareness to whatever is going on, your mind can just rest in that. It can use the awareness, or that empty

awareness, as a vessel for your mind to just rest in, and that should be more than enough, instead of trying to want to do something every time you notice the mind wanting to achieve something, getting obsessed by something. If you in that moment just find that space and you try to stay in that, all of that stuff starts to melt away. What, when you were describing, so you're resting in fourth jhana and the mind just wants to go to no conscious, empty consciousness or no perception, so what is that wanting, what's directing that? It's actually the, um, samvega, in Pali it's called samvega, which is the realization that I don't want to suffer anymore, and I want something that is going to alleviate that suffering. It's the, I want relief. Yeah, that's a part of all each one of those steps, isn't it? Thank you. Yeah, Alex, you've got your finger raised. Unmute, Alex. Oh, you need to unmute.

Yeah, don't still need it, can you hear me now? Yeah, yes, okay, great. Sometimes I do find during sitting, it's like everything just stops, just for a very brief moment. It's not intentional, it just comes naturally. Yeah, so, quite frankly, I no longer care about jhana, and I don't care whether I'm in jhana or which state of jhana, I mean, and my approach to sitting right now is I just sit, and I try not to bring this thought, this thinking, stuff like that along. I just sit. No. So what do you have to say about that, Delson? Yeah, I mean, I would normally start off with brahmavihara, and my second sitting I would normally do vipassana, just vipassana. Yeah. So I always recommend for people to do some kind of action, like in terms of the mind, like just doing, excuse me, brahmavihara is like radiating

something, even if it's for a minute, even if it's for half a minute, whatever it is, but just try to keep that going until the mind automatically gets into that space. Now once you're in that space, don't do anything. Easier said than done, Alex. Easier said than done, because the mind wants to tinker with this, that, or the other, but just know, just rest, don't do anything. Okay, thank you so much. Tinkering, tinkering mind. What's the Pali term for that? Any other questions? Oh, Elizabeth, yes. Thank you Delson, thank you everyone. I have heard on occasion from other people that they've experienced this awakening experience, oneness with all things, and not uncommonly they may be people who really don't meditate regularly. I'm wondering how that experience fits in, if at all, with the jhanas. Yeah, this is an experience of different words for cosmic consciousness. It's the non-dual state, or state in which the mind is, or the atman meets the brahman. It's like a complete unity of everything, unification of everything.

And generally speaking, you will experience this in at least one of the higher jhanas, starting from infinite space, especially from infinite space. Because what happens is, as you start to expand your awareness, that awareness seeps through basically everything in that space. And so the beginnings of infinite consciousness feel like that, which is I am one with everything, and that starts to then break down a little bit as you start to get deeper into infinite consciousness, where you start to see the arising and passing away of consciousness. But that's where you would see it in that mouth. Okay, all right. Anything else? So maybe I think we'll... oh, well, actually we need to share some here. Wait, Jordan has a question. Okay. Hi Delson, wonderful talk, thank you so much for diving into this subject again. I don't think it can be overstated, you know, the value of the difference between just right samadhi and all the other types.

I have a particular student who insists on taking Ambien from time to time, and justifies that as, I can't sleep, and it levels me out. And it's a very tricky subject, because I don't want to be in a position of prescribing or making a value judgment, because I'm not that person. I don't know what they need. But intuitively, and also, I think there's another one who's doing some micro dosing, and they have trouble in their meditations and in settling. And I'm just thinking it might be connected to this, but I don't want to step into that water. And I'm wondering what kind of guidance can I offer? Because I'm not sure that it's healthy.

I'm pretty positive that's not helpful. Yeah, this is actually, as you said, very tricky, because it helps them sleep, but you might want to ask them to see how it actually affects the meditation. And they might already know that it does have an effect on the meditation. A lot of different kinds of medications, or micro dosing, and things like that, have a very direct effect on the subtleties of consciousness, which is to say that it starts to dull

out the ability to focus, and it defocuses the mind too much. That's why when you talk about the fifth precept, of not indulging in intoxicants, we have that broad sort of understanding that that could include other things like psychedelics. I'm not saying that psychedelics are bad, but we know that there's a lot of bad trips that can happen from it. And under the right circumstances it can also be therapeutic, under the supervision of somebody who is a doctor and understands these processes. But I've also seen that once people do this, once they start to go down that path, it's difficult for them to meditate on their own. So maybe the best way to guide them is to say, okay, is there any chance of you speaking with your doctor, if possible, and seeing if there are any alternatives

and or finding other ways that alleviate this sleeplessness, because they can try yoga nidra, for example. Yoga nidra is a wonderful practice where you train the mind to go under certain levels or stages of sleep for 20 minutes, 30 minutes at a time, and that can help them calm the mind down enough to actually get some sleep. So they should try to find alternatives to deal with that, and once they start to, let's say, wean off of micro dosing and other things that they're taking, it'll be much easier. It might be a slow process, but it will be easier over the long term for them to become more focused and for them to become more collected in their mind. Yeah, great. Yoga nidra, I never thought of that. That's just a wonderful direction, and kind of a stepping stone of engaging in an action, a direct action, and yet not habitually repeating. There's sort of this, the process. So, hey, thanks a lot. I'll let you know what happens with that.

- Sure. - Thank you. - Samila has her hand raised. - Samila, yeah. Samila, where are you? - Oh, is she there? - I don't see it. - I think she might have frozen. - It looks like low bandwidth has been. No, no, okay, we're back, but. - Oh, there we go. We can see you move, but I can't hear you. No, no, nothing yet. Well, while we're waiting, there are a few announcements we kind of did. Oh, okay, Ann, we'll get to you. Hold on. Next week, we will have another session on forgiveness, and we'll be talking about that, and we'll have a few people coming in to share their experiences as well.

There will be online retreats with Delson starting September, maybe for three months, one a month. We'll have some information about that. You can't sign up yet or anything like this, but, that's coming. And there will be an Easter retreat next year with Delson. That's just out there. We don't have any signups or anything yet, but that is out there. And for those of you who have not done an online retreat, you're always welcome to go to the Dhammasuka website and sign up for an online retreat and go through your own practice with a guide. And also there's self-guided online retreats, where you just go through a bunch of modules, and it guides you through some talks and gives you advice as to how to proceed, so that you can just do that yourself.

And that's all on there, too. All right. Samila, do we have Samila? No? Okay. Looks like we're sharing some merit. It's still no sound from her, but I see somebody else has a hand. Oh, and you had a... you, and did you have something similar? Do you want to type in your question? That's fine too. I can, yeah. I just wanted to respond to Jordan's medical question, because yeah, people are usually on Ambien, a prescription drug, on medicines because of the context in which they're living. So if they're doing an online retreat and they're not, and they're still working, they're trying to do this in their regular life, that might be a little complex situation to try to change. I think Delson is right about finding alternatives and having the doctor involved, but I think, you know, the expert on an in-person retreat, and they have access to their physician, that would be a good time, because there's time to kind of dry out and see for

themselves how this impacts them. But in real life, and on the online retreats that they're not, that they're still in their real full-on life, I think messing with their medications could put them at more risk for an unbalanced sitting, or meditation, than going off of them. I mean, people have a fear of medicine anyway, and sometimes people go off medicines when they shouldn't, because they think medicine's bad. But I think it's a case-by-case thing, and shouldn't nobody grab brush would be a good idea about that. Okay. Samila, you guys, one more time. I see her there. No, she has something in the chat. Let's see. You were talking about seeing the building blocks of the matrix before after seeing nirvana. Is it the case at all times? Is it kind of seeing the very beginnings of vibrations associated with thoughts? So it can be, but the thing is it can happen before or after nirvana. It depends on the person's inclination, but seeing the very beginnings of vibrations associated with thoughts are generally the sankharas.

Those are what I call the proto-thoughts. It's like the little bubbles that come up before it forms into a fully conscious thought. So that is what could be seen. Okay. And Zayid has his hand raised up. Dhamma, greetings. Thank you so much, Delson, for this amazing talk. I have a question about equanimity. You mentioned that equanimity, in equanimity, there's this experiential understanding of impermanence and about the cause of suffering, and that it's an impersonal process. And you mentioned that basically the mind becomes free of constriction, and it's kind of running under the guidance of volition.

My question was, is this kind of illusion also part of the impersonal process of anatta, or something else? Yeah, it's like, there is an intention that pervades through that whole process. Like the beginning intention is to let go, and there are repercussions. There's a momentum of that intention that is experienced as a natural process. So the letting go, and then coming into that equanimity, that equanimity arose, let's say, due to the initial volition of letting go, but it's not independent of anything. It's still part of this whole process that we see as anatta. It's like when you have those spinning tops and you let them go. So the first intention was to let them go, and then the momentum of that top, it keeps spinning, but it's spinning because of the other forces around it, for a while at least. And those other forces, there are the other preceding steps, let's say, prior to equanimity. So from the volition all the way to equanimity, there's all of these different steps or stages that happen naturally once you start letting

go. I think I got it. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. I think we'll call an end to the questions now. We've been going quite a long time. So let's share some air. May suffering ones be suffering free, and the fearstruck or fearless be. May the grieving shed all grief, and may all beings find relief. May all beings share this merit that we have thus acquired, for the acquisition of all kinds of happiness. May beings inhabiting space and earth, devas and nagas of mighty power, share this merit of ours. May they long protect the Buddha's dispensation. Thank you everyone. Thank you. All right. Thank you everyone. Thank you. Thank you David. Thank you all. Thank you next week. Thank you so much.