Day 6 Bodhgaya

DIN THAYAM CHAGKU MÁREK RÁJÁN HARISAVANNO PATA VIPPA BHÁSAM TAM TAM NAMAS SÁMI HARISAVANNAM PATA VIPPA BHÁSAM Satsang with Mooji. The first sutta I'm going to be reading from, this is Majjhima Nikaya 143, Anathapindikovada Sutta, Advice to Anathapindika. Thus have I heard on one occasion, the Blessed One was living at Savatthi in Jeta's Grove, Anatha Pindaka's Park.

Now on that occasion, the householder Anatha Pindaka was afflicted, suffering and gravely ill. Then he addressed a certain man thus: "Come, good man, go to the Blessed One, pay homage in my name with your head at his feet and say, 'Venerable sir, the householder Anatha Pindaka is afflicted, suffering and gravely ill. He pays homage with his head at the Blessed One's feet.' Then go to the Venerable Sariputta, pay homage in my name with your head at his feet and say, 'Venerable sir, the householder Anathapindika is afflicted, suffering and gravely ill. He pays homage with his head at the Venerable Sariputta's feet.'

Then say, 'It would be good, Venerable sir, if the Venerable Sariputta would come to the residence of the householder Anathapindika out of compassion.' Yes, sir, the man replied, and he went to the Blessed One, and after paying homage to the Blessed One, he sat down at one side and delivered his message. Then he went to the Venerable Sariputta, and after paying homage to the Venerable Sariputta, he delivered his message, saying, 'It would be good, Venerable sir, if the Venerable Sariputta would come to the residence of the householder Anatha Pindaka out of compassion.' The Venerable Sariputta consented in silence.

Then the Venerable Sariputta, dressed and taking his bowl and outer robe, went to the residence of the householder Anatha Pindaka with the Venerable Ananda as his attendant. Having gone there, he sat down on a seat made ready and said to the householder Anatha Pindaka, "I hope you are getting well, householder. I hope you are comfortable. I hope your painful feelings are subsiding and not increasing, and that they're subsiding, not their increase, is apparent." "Venerable Sariputta, I am not getting well. I am not comfortable. My painful feelings are increasing, not subsiding. Their increase and not their subsiding is apparent."

Just as if a strong man were splitting my head open with a sharp sword, so too violent winds cut through my head. I am not getting well. Just as if a strong man were tightening a tough leather strap around my head as a headband, so too there are violent pains in my head. I am not getting well.

Just as if a skilled butcher or his apprentice were to carve up an ox's belly with a sharp butcher's knife, so too violent winds are carving up my belly. I am not getting well. I think you recognize this. Maybe you also recognize this. Sounds familiar. The fan has ceased. It is not getting well. All right. I am not getting well. Just as if two strong men were to seize a weaker man by both arms and roast him over a pit of hot coals, so too there is a violent burning in my body. I am not getting well. I am not comfortable. My painful feelings are increasing, not subsiding. Their increase and not their subsiding is apparent. Now the next

passage is where Sariputta provides the instructions to Anatha Pindaka. So my advice to you all is to close your eyes and just listen, and I will explain as we continue reading through this. We will be guiding you through a process of unraveling your consciousness. Then householder, you should train thus: I will not cling to the eye, and my consciousness will not be dependent on the eye.

I will not cling to the ear, and my consciousness will not be dependent on the ear. I will not cling to the nose, and my consciousness will not be dependent on the nose. I will not cling to the tongue, and my consciousness will not be dependent on the tongue. I will not cling to the body, and my consciousness will not be dependent on the body. I will not cling to the mind, and my consciousness will not be dependent on the mind. These are the six sense bases: the eyes, the ears, the nose, the tongue, the body and the mind.

They are just impersonal processes. They are part of your body, part of rupa, your form. But your consciousness, that is to say your awareness, your mind, will not be dependent upon them. In other words, the consciousness will not cling to them, will not take them as me, mine, or myself. The awareness remains just as it is, does not superimpose a sense of self in these sense organs, in these six sense bases. Before these six sense bases or after the six sense bases, the consciousness remains unperturbed, unaffected, independent of these six sense bases.

Householder, you should train thus: I will not cling to forms, and my consciousness will not be dependent upon forms. I will not cling to sounds, and my consciousness will not be dependent on sounds. I will not cling to odors, and my consciousness will not be dependent on odors. I will not cling to flavors, and my consciousness will not be dependent on flavors. I will not cling to tangibles, and my consciousness will not be dependent on tangibles. I will not cling to mind objects, and my consciousness will not be dependent on mind objects.

These are the external six sense bases. The internal are the eyes, the ears, the nose, the tongue, the body and the mind. But the external are the objects of the six sense bases. Each of these is impersonal, has nothing to do with me, mine or myself. Each of these objects has nothing to do with what is happening with the eye or eye consciousness. The mind remains independent of these objects. The consciousness remains independent of these objects because it does not cling to them. Forms remain form, sounds remain sound, odors remain odor, tastes and flavors remain tastes and flavors,

tangibles remain tangibles, and mind objects, thoughts, ideas, concepts, remain as they are. There is no you in there. There is no you after it. There is no you before it. Just the objects. I will not cling to, I consciousness, and my consciousness will not be dependent upon eye consciousness. I will not cling to ear consciousness, and my consciousness will not be dependent upon ear consciousness. I will not cling to nose consciousness, and my consciousness will not be dependent upon nose consciousness. I will not cling to tongue consciousness, and my consciousness will not be dependent upon tongue consciousness. I will not cling to body consciousness, and my consciousness will not be dependent upon body consciousness. I will not cling to mind consciousness, and my consciousness will not be dependent upon mind consciousness.

These different consciousnesses, they arise and pass away, just as the internal sense bases arise and pass away. Just as the external sense bases arise and pass away, so too do these sense-based consciousnesses arise and pass away, dependent upon contact. With the meaning of I and forms, there is I-consciousness. The joining of these together is eye contact. The meeting of ears and sound, that is ear consciousness, gives rise to ear consciousness. The joining of these three is your contact. The odors and nose, the joining of these, gives rise to nose consciousness. And these three constitute nose contact.

The flavors and tongue, when they join together, they give rise to tongue consciousness. And the joining of these three provides tongue contact. The body and intangibles, when they join, they give rise to body consciousness. And these three constitute body contact. The mind and mind objects, when they make contact, they give rise to mind consciousness. And these constitute mind contact.

In other words, these consciousnesses are dependent upon the sense bases. Dependent upon the external sense bases. Consciousness itself is impermanent, liable to pass away, liable to change. So don't let your consciousness, your mind, cling to eyes, ears, nose, tongue, body, mind, or forms, sounds, odors, flavors, tangibles or mind objects, or eye consciousness, ear consciousness, nose consciousness, tongue consciousness, body consciousness, mind consciousness.

When your mind remains independent of these, non-grasping, your mind remains unaffected because it sees the truth of these experiences. These are composites that give rise to an experience. But you are not the experience. You are not the experiencer. You are not the experiencing either. There is no self in the arising or passing away. There is no self in the experience. There is no self in the experiencer. There is no self in the experiencing. These are all notions, ideas arising through wrong self-view. Notice this and let go of it.

I will not cling to eye contact, and my consciousness will not be dependent upon eye contact. I will not cling to ear contact, and my consciousness will not be dependent upon ear contact. I will not cling to nose contact, and my consciousness will not be dependent upon nose contact. I will not cling to tongue contact, and my consciousness will not be dependent upon tongue contact. I will not cling to body contact, and my consciousness will not be dependent upon body contact. I will not cling to mind contact, and my consciousness will not be dependent upon mind contact. You've already seen that contact is dependent upon the sixfold base, the internal sixfold base. The joining of the sixfold, the internal sixfold base with the external sixfold base, gives rise to the sensory consciousnesses, and they constitute the different sensory contacts.

In other words, they are dependently arisen. They arise dependent upon causes and conditions. That which arises dependent upon causes and conditions is liable to change, liable to disappear when those causes and conditions disappear. So how can there be a self in that? If they are liable to change, they are liable to cause suffering. So these sensory-based contacts should be seen as not me, not mine, not myself. Keep your mind independent of these experiences. Observe them, understand them as what they truly are with proper wisdom. Thus: this is not me, this is not mine, this I am not, this is not myself.

You should train thus: I will not cling to the feeling born of eye contact, and my consciousness will not be dependent on the feeling born of eye contact. I will not cling to feeling born of ear contact, and my consciousness will not be dependent on feeling born of ear contact. I will not cling to feeling born of nose contact, and my consciousness will not be dependent on feeling born of nose contact. I will not cling to feeling born of tongue contact, and my consciousness will not be dependent on feeling born of tongue contact. I will not cling to feeling born of body contact, and my consciousness will not be dependent on feeling born of body contact.

I will not cling to feeling born of mind contact. And my consciousness will not be dependent on feeling born of mind contact. Feeling, vedana, all felt experience dependent upon contact with the sixth sense basis arises and passes away in every moment. What you see as a fluid experience is made up of trillions and trillions of arising and passing away of feeling.

All feeling is just an experience dependent upon contact. When there is no contact, there is no feeling. When there is no sixth sense base, there is no contact. I will not cling to the earth element, and my consciousness will not be dependent upon the earth element. I will not cling to the water element, and my consciousness will not be dependent upon the water element. I will not cling to the fire element, and my consciousness will not be dependent upon the fire element. I will not cling to the air element, and my consciousness will not be dependent upon the air element. I will not cling to the space element, and my consciousness will not be dependent on the space element.

I will not cling to the consciousness element, and my consciousness will not be dependent on the consciousness element. These six elements, earth, fire, water, and air, and space, they constitute the body, rupa. Consciousness is a short form. The consciousness element is a short form for nama, or mind. These are the faculties for contact, feeling, perception, intention, and attention.

This mind is known by its faculties. This mind is dependent upon consciousness, the awareness to arise and pass away. In every moment that mind arises and passes away, so too does the body arise and pass away. The body keeps changing, is liable to change. The body continues to decay, change, age, and experience pain and pleasure. That pain and pleasure is dependent upon contact with the body, with the six sense spaces, including the mind.

In order for us to experience the body, we need components of the mind. And in order for that mind to be experienced, we need the body. There is that interdependency. Anything that is dependent upon another, or interdependent with another, is liable to change, liable to decay, and therefore should be seen with proper wisdom. And thus, it is liable to cause suffering, and therefore not to be seen as me, mine, or myself.

Air, fire, water, earth, space. These change. The internal earth element and the external earth element are one and the same. The internal water element and the external water element are one and the same. The internal air element and the external air element are one and the same. The internal fire element and the external fire element are one and the same. The internal space element and the external space element are one and the same. And in order for us to experience all of this, we require the consciousness element, which is a short form for the mind. But these elements, whether internal or external, change dependent upon circumstances and situations. They are liable to decay, and if the mind is dependent upon them to be experienced, then even the mind is liable to decay. So you will not cling to any of these elements, internally or externally. Neither will you cling to the mind, internally or externally, and your awareness will not be dependent upon these elements.

I will not cling to material form, and my consciousness will not be dependent upon material form. I will not cling to feeling, and my consciousness will not be dependent upon feeling. I will not cling to perception, and my consciousness will not be dependent upon perception. I will not cling to formations, and my consciousness will not be dependent upon formations.

I will not cling to consciousness, and my consciousness will not be dependent on consciousness. I will not cling to material form, material form internal or external, far or near, in the past, present, or the future, subtle or gross. Any of these material forms are impermanent, liable to change, liable to cause suffering, and therefore should be seen as not me, not mine, or not myself. Seeing this, the mind becomes disenchanted with all material form. Being disenchanted, it experiences dispassion. Being dispassionate, mind is liberated from attaching a sense of self to any form. Feeling arises and passes away, dependent upon the arising and passing away of contact.

Feeling continues to change. Seeing the impermanent nature of the arising and passing away of feeling, one sees with proper wisdom that this is liable to cause suffering. Therefore, it should not be seen as me, mine, or myself. Seeing this, the mind becomes disenchanted with all feeling. Becoming disenchanted, it becomes dispassionate. Experiencing dispassion, the mind becomes liberated.

Perception. What is perception? Perception is dependent upon contact. Perception is that aspect of the mind that recognises an experience, that labels and notes an experience. It arises in conjunction with all experience. Seeing this, the mind understands that perception, being dependent upon contact, will pass away when that contact changes and passes away. Seeing this, the mind understands that all perception, whether internal or external, far or near, subtle or gross, of the past, present, or the future, is liable to change, impermanent, liable to cause suffering. So it should be seen with proper wisdom. Thus, this is not me, this is not mine, this is not myself. Seeing this, the mind sees things as they actually are. Doing this, the mind experiences disenchantment.

Becoming disenchanted, the mind experiences dispassion. Becoming dispassionate, the mind is liberated. All formations are arising and passing away, dependent upon contact. When there is contact, it can give rise to a feeling. For us to experience that feeling, there is required mental formations. For us to express speech, there is required verbal formations. For us to move, and inhale, and exhale, there is required bodily formations. These formations arise dependent upon contact when there is an intention. These formations condition all of our intentions, choices, and decisions, all of our inclinations. Even our intentions, being dependent upon past causes and conditions, and conditions dependent upon the situation, are liable to change and liable to pass away dependent upon those causes and conditions. But since they are liable to change, liable to be inconstant, they should be seen as impermanent and liable to cause suffering. Therefore, they should be seen with proper wisdom. Thus, this is not me, this is not mine, this is not myself. Seeing this, you let go of all attachment of self to any decision, to any choice, to any intention, to any formation that arises.

In this way, you see things as they really are with reference to formations. Seeing this, mind becomes disenchanted with all formations. Becoming disenchanted, mind becomes dispassionate. Experiencing dispassion, mind is liberated. Consciousness, the arising and passing away of consciousness, is dependent upon the mind and body, nama and rupa. Nama and rupa are dependent upon consciousness, and consciousness arises dependent upon nama and rupa. Consciousness arising and passing away, dependent upon its causes and conditions, continues to change. There is no such thing as a permanent, unchanging consciousness. Consciousness continues to evolve. It is impermanent, dependent upon causes and conditions. All consciousness is experienced in reference to the mind. And mind continues to change, dependent upon external and internal causes and conditions.

I will not cling to the base of infinite space, and my consciousness will not be dependent upon the base of infinite space. I will not cling to the base of infinite consciousness, and my consciousness will not be dependent on the base of infinite consciousness. I will not cling to the base of nothingness, and my consciousness will not be dependent on the base of nothingness. I will not cling to the base of neither perception nor non-perception, and my consciousness will not be dependent on the base of neither perception or non-perception. These formless attainments, infinite space, infinite consciousness, nothingness, and neither perception or non-perception, all of them are volitionally produced.

Volitionally produced means that they are dependent upon intentions. There is an intention to radiate loving-kindness or any of the Brahmaviharas, and dependent upon that, the mind experiences infinite space. This is one of the gateways into infinite space. As mind becomes more calm, it experiences infinite consciousness, dependent upon the intention to enter into infinite consciousness. As the mind calms down further, it experiences nothingness. That nothingness, or the experience of nothingness, is dependent upon the intention to enter into nothingness. As mind lets go of all gross perceptions and enters the limits of perception, it experiences neither perception or non-perception. This experience too is volitionally produced, dependent upon intentions. Anything that is dependent upon prior causes and conditions is subject to change when those causes and conditions fall away.

These states of mind, these experiences, are impermanent, and therefore not to be seen as me, mine, or myself. Letting go of all notions of a permanent personal self to these experiences, mind becomes disenchanted with these experiences. Becoming disenchanted, mind experiences dispassion. Becoming dispassionate, mind is liberated from these experiences. I will not cling to this world, and my consciousness will not be dependent on this world. I will not cling to the world beyond, and my consciousness will not be dependent on the world beyond. This world and the next world, the world beyond. This world can be seen in different ways. Everything that we experience through the sixth sense basis, that is constituted as the world. And so the experience of this world is also dependent upon causes and conditions when there is contact with the sixth sense basis.

Seeing this, mind sees that this world is made up of composites and components which are dependent upon prior causes and conditions. Seeing this, mind understands the impermanent nature of this world. Mind lets go of any notion of happiness in this world and becomes disenchanted, seeing this process as not me, not mine, not myself. The next world, if we were to consider the next world, we would see that that too arises dependent upon causes and conditions, because the intention, if it is rooted in craving, identification, or aversion, gives rise to a consciousness that then departs from this world and experiences the next world. That next world is experienced again through some form of the sixth sense basis and consciousness.

That keeps changing, because it keeps changing. Even the next world is made up of interdependent and dependent causes and conditions. Seeing this one understands that the next world too is impermanent, liable to cause suffering, and therefore should be seen with proper wisdom. Thus: this is not me, this is not mine, this is not myself. Seeing this one lets go of all notions of self attached to this world or to the next world. Becoming disenchanted with this world and the next world, the mind experiences dispassion. Experiencing dispassion, the mind is liberated from all notions of this world and the next world.

I will not cling to what is seen, heard, sensed, cognized, encountered, sought after and examined by the mind, and my consciousness will not be dependent on that. In other words, in the experience itself there is only the experience and the awareness of that experience. If the awareness goes beyond and says that this experience is me, mine or myself, that is where trouble begins. That is how dukkha arises. But if you see that in the seen there is only the seen, in the heard there is only the heard, in the cognized there is only the cognized, in the sensed there is only the sensed, and there is no you in that, there is no you before that and there is no you after that, just that is the end of suffering. And so mind, seeing this, becomes disenchanted with all experience. Even through the experience of the mind becoming disenchanted, it experiences dispassion. Becoming dispassionate, it experiences liberation from all notions of this is me, this is mine, this is myself, in reference to all that is seen, all that is heard, all that is cognized, all that is sensed.

When this was said, the householder Anathapindika wept and shed tears. Then the venerable Ananda asked him, "Are you foundering, householder? Are you sinking?" "I am not foundering, venerable Ananda. I am not sinking. But although I have long waited upon the teacher and bhikkhus worthy of esteem, never before have I seen such a talk on the Dhamma. Such talk on the Dhamma, householder, is not given to lay people clothed in white. Such talk on the Dhamma is given to those who have gone forth."

The reason Sariputta says this is because the household life is related to the pursuit and acquisition of things. People get troubled by that, and their mind is not ripe to experience such talk. It's not that this is some kind of esoteric teaching. Well then, Venerable Sariputta, let such talk on the Dhamma be given to lay people clothed in white. There are clansmen with little dust in their eyes who are wasting away through not hearing such talk on the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma. Then after giving the householder Anathapindika this advice, the Venerable Sariputta and the Venerable Ananda rose from their seats and departed. Soon after they had left, the householder Anathapindika died and reappeared in the Tusita heaven.

When the night had ended, the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus thus. Bhikkhus, last night when the night was well advanced there came to me a certain god of beautiful appearance who illuminated the whole of Jeta's grove. After paying homage to me, he sat down at one side and addressed me in stanzas thus: O blessed is this Jeta's grove, dwelt in by the sagely Sangha, wherein resides the King of Dhamma, the fount of all my happiness. By action, knowledge and Dhamma, by virtue and noble way of life, by these are beings purified, not by lineage or wealth. Therefore a wise person who sees what truly leads to his own good should investigate the Dhamma and purify himself with it. Sariputta has reached the peak in virtue, peace and wisdom's ways. Any bhikkhu who has gone beyond at best can only equal him. That is what the young god said. Then the young god, thinking the Teacher has approved of me, paid homage to me and, keeping me on his right, he vanished at once.

When this was said, the Venerable Ananda said to the Blessed One, "Surely, Venerable Sir, the young god must have been Anathapindika. For the householder Anathapindika had perfect confidence in the Venerable Sariputta. In other words, Anathapindika was a stream-enterer. And when he passed, he experienced another level." "Good, good, Ananda. As far as reasoning goes, you have drawn the right conclusion. That young god was Anathapindika, no one else." That is what the Blessed One said. The Venerable Ananda was satisfied and delighted in the Blessed One's words. So what Sariputta is doing here is he was leading Anathapindika from the conditioned to the unconditioned. He was leading Anathapindika to an experience where his mind detaches from all experience, which is conditioned, and coming to the experience of nibbana.

This is a very powerful sutta to give to those who are dying. So, if you encounter people who are on their deathbed, even if they are not introduced to the Dhamma, if you just read this sutta in the way that it has been read, their mind will experience great peace, and it can happen that their mind might even experience nibbana before they depart.

And the reason why I say that this process leads to nibbana is because there is a sutra similar to this one, which I will read now. And this is from Anguttara Nikaya 10.6. Then the Venerable Ananda approached the Blessed One, paid homage to him, sat down to one side and said to him, "Bhante, could a bhikkhu obtain such a state of mind that he would not be percipient of earth in relation to earth, of water in relation to water, of fire in relation to fire, of air in relation to air, of the base of infinite space in relation to the base of infinite space, of the base of infinite consciousness in relation to the base of infinite consciousness, of the base of nothingness in relation to the base of nothingness, of the base of neither perception nor non-perception in relation to the base of neither perception nor non-perception, of this world in relation to this world, of the other world in relation to the other world, but he would still be percipient so when he says this of, for example, of the base of nothingness in

relation to the base of nothing, of these things in relation to these things he's talking about, is there a state of mind where the mind just sees things as they actually are, doesn't add anything, doesn't add anything to the perception, just sees things as they are, doesn't say this is me, this is mine, this is myself, doesn't conceive of a self in relation to these experiences? He could, Ananda. But how, Bhante, could he obtain such a state of mind? Here Ananda Adhiku is percipient thus: this is peaceful, this is sublime, that is the stilling of all activities, the relinquishing of all acquisitions, the destruction of craving, dispassion, cessation, nibbana. This is how mind is liberated.

So, we can take a break here, and if anyone has any questions, we can answer a few questions and I'll get to the next suda. Hmm? I can't hear you. You want to do questions later? Yeah, good. Yeah. That is a very good question. And I'm not familiar with how it became a Sri Mentor. Is anybody familiar with that? How Anatha Pindaka became a Sri Mentor? Yeah.

But was it through hearing or was it through meditation? Through hearing. Yeah, because the mind becomes very calm, very collected, and then is able to apprehend the Dhamma. talks to a big audience or very specific important people, like Anathapindika. That's where we find that he delivers a talk, a graduated talk, and he begins with generosity, recollecting behaviours, virtues, all these beautiful qualities of his mind. There is audience, and usually these talks would be journey bomb, so because this is the way it was done at that time, there's no other entertainment, and then their minds would be uplifted.

And then mine would be clear and bright and like a white piece, raw, ready to take into that. And then we would deliver the affordable truth, the April path. And then they would see the dawn on the chapter. And then they would see the dawn on the horizon. And then I believe that's how an upcoming love streamed into it. He was a very busy, very wealthy merchant. He was very devout. He was very lost. So he didn't have much time and attention. Even his daughter was more advanced than people. On her deathbed, she called him her father, her little brother, because she understood more of her, so she had sort of a different feeling. Yes, that helps, of course, but it's not everything.

One can decide also, one can decide if it's like having to do this, and then it's more likely to happen, but yes, of course, all the disciples, just to be reborn in an era where there's a good one, is, you need to have done something pretty good, and such, and just everybody here. There are so many more demons of this universe that occur without any kind of non-preaching, without a river. This is a very small room to find everybody here has done very good deeds, have very good pyramids basically. Is the horizon of condition? Well, yeah, everything is conditioned to the point where he would develop qualities for awakening for so many lifetimes.

The only thing that is not conditioned is . Although we attain it through conditioned means. That's always the tricky part to understand. But yes, of course, the horizon of the various conditions has to develop, like we do, like everybody here is good. But for him, every move back takes a longer time. And finally, without a teacher, personally, I don't understand how it's even possible. But who does do that? That's amazing. The sleep is still calm. I don't know. But you don't get short of it. Not short of it. It's calm. Wonderful. Because your mind is calm, calm and relaxed. Sometimes reading the Chachakka Sutta that we read last night, and reading this Sutta also, but I've only seen it happen when reading the Chachakka Sutta, people actually have in the world experience sometimes.

They will actually let go of everything so much, so deeply. You know, listening to Dhamma and having very profound experience is still possible in this day and age. It's not gone, and I've seen it in audiences, with people who were just like, "Oh, what are we doing?" And so, just listening to the Dhamma, they've experienced Dhamma too. So the discourses are quite important, and that was a great version actually. As I looked at you, you were barely reading this thing; it came from him. Shall we go on to the next sutta? Consciousness as the? When we talk about consciousness as the sixth element, it's referring to mind. In other words, mind is known by its faculties.

Through contact, feeling, perception, intention, attention. Each of these is dependent upon causes and conditions. For contact to arise it needs a sixth sense basis. For feeling to arise it needs contact. For perception and intention to arise it also needs contact. And for attention to arise, it requires contact as well. So consciousness here as the sixth element is also dependent upon the factors of nama-rupa. That's why, if it's dependent upon something, if that cause or condition changes or goes away, so too does that consciousness. It will pass away. If you take your eye consciousness, any of the consciousnesses that arise, they arise and pass, arise and pass. Yes.

It will perish, yes. But as a consciousness it is like an element. Yes, it changes dependent upon nama-rupa. Yes. But even the consciousness element is only experienced through mind. If there was no mind, there would be no consciousness. If there is no consciousness, there would be no mind. Vinnana ceases. They all cease, they all cease. What happens is, when there is a cessation, when there is a dissolution of that life, the craving that is rooted in the formations, the sankharas, gives rise to a new consciousness.

This is known as the evolving consciousness that then goes into the next life, and it continues to arise and pass away dependent upon causes and conditions in that existence. I'm sorry? Correct, new vinnana. Yeah, I've heard of this also. This is actually, if you talk about, for example, an anagami who experiences parinibbana, it says the intermediate, they experience parinibbana. But that assumes that there is an existence between two existences. Yeah.

But what happens is, prior to it actually fully perishing, it experiences liberation right there and then. And then it becomes cool, where it enters Paryanidana. No, there is Vinyana for a short span, like that. So this is what is also known as spontaneously generated. That is, there is no like, there's no like consciousness waiting somewhere to take birth in a new Nama Rupa. It happens spontaneously or quickly. So the consciousness becomes a carrier.

Right, it moves forward those sankharas into a new nama-rupa. In the same way, in one life, when we experience this one life, it's not like when the sankharas arise, consciousness arises. The sankhara's momentum is felt through each of the links of dependent origination. So as they arise, the impression is left on the next link, and that impression is left on the next link, and that next link is left on the next link, so there's momentum that continues on. Yes, right, right.

Yes, and the momentum of the sankharas is through the fuel of craving. In other words, if the formations have craving, conceit, aversion, whatever it might be, in relation to what is being experienced in the mind, then that is liable to cause a new consciousness that's tainted by that. And then it will incline to a new nama-rupa, that's the bhava. It will incline to a new existence.

Of course, I mean, if it's punya, then it'll go to a wholesome, yes. Right, exactly, exactly, yeah. That is why the Buddha talks about kamma in that way. Some kamma will activate at certain times or certain lives, let's say, and some kamma will maybe just remain dormant because the causes and conditions are not present for the nourishment of that kamma to sprout.

Seeds will still be there until they can't sprout again. Yes. The gandava is the evolving consciousness. That's all it is. It's just the consciousness coming from one to the next. You know, there is that simile of using two candles. You have one candle, and you light the flame of that candle, then you light the next candle with the previous flame. What has happened, actually? Is that new flame, or is that flame new? Is it a new flame, or is it arising dependent on the previous flame?

So the previous flame is dependent upon its particular candle wax, which is the five aggregates, the craving and so on. But the energy, the momentum of that, is transferred into this flame. But that flame carries forward dependent upon the previous flame, and then continues arising or flickering based on the new fuel, the new nama-rupa, the new set of five aggregates. So, in the case of the human being, we bring our seed also with us. Yes. Yes. With the flame. Yes. So in a way, we need some evidence of the previous catapults when you can. Right. The potential of that to continue. This happens very well in the concept of the therapy. They say that the previous flame can activate anytime during your current life.

Right. Yes. So I don't want to go on that. The condition is not clearly, but I can tell you that the previous flame is activated. And as we'll see tomorrow, contact is the key for that. There has to be contact for the stimulation of that to happen. So, I mean, phassa. Phassa. Yeah, the intermediate stage. That is what actually, why you feel. And then the other steps that are. Yeah, you need to be considering his own. This is what I'll explain when you talk about the antarabhava, the intermediate stage.

Now, this is nowhere in the suttas, so take it for what it's worth. This is my own experience and my own understanding of this process. When there is the dying process happening, certain things are unraveling. The sixth sense bases unravel in a certain order. The elements of the body unravel in a certain order. But the last to unravel is the mind, the consciousness element. So even if the body is considered clinically dead, mind is still active.

That is why they have that concept of bardos. It's not some intermediate existence. It's all happening in mind itself. And through that process, there can arise desire. There can arise aversion. There can arise identification. When that happens and the mind latches on to that, says that this is me, this is the mind that's in myself, then the formations will activate a certain kind of consciousness. Then that will depart from the mind. And then that will be the dissolution of the mind base.

Even well beyond, after the body is seemingly medically considered dead. I think it's a good thing to remember that sankhara kaccayana, in the Yudana, so that we tend to, even though we say this, that formations engender consciousness, basically, yet we still have a really hard time understanding this, because it's hard to understand unless someone would experience it very profoundly. Down we tend to really see it the other way around, where the sankharas are kind of planted in consciousness. But that's not the way it works. It's actually really a sankhara. Sankhara also can be translated as activities or processes that are continually happening, and

it's not that sankharas are planted in consciousness, and that is kind of moving on to the next thing. It's actually consciousness is made up of sankharas. There is nothing. Consciousness is just an illusion. It's a marriage. What? Yes, it's a marriage. It's just something that is... it's like a screen, and sankhara is the pixels. And there's no screen, there's no image. It's just pixels. Sankharas, right? They're the catalyst. Yes, the catalyst. Okay. And when people start to enter the still mind, for example the quiet mind, it starts at the plane of endless consciousness. We start to see that kind of flickering of consciousness. People will start to see that, or just be becoming aware of the transience of mind, basically, that mind is very imperfect. And this is kind of stuff, and that stills, and that stills out, becomes more subtle, and becomes very still. That's what we call the clear mind, the still mind, the quiet mind.

but but the the activities they're not they're not gone they're just much more subtle and mind is even still mine is still fully fabricated even though it's hard to it's hard to see and this is this is a place where everybody you know it's hard to let go of that sometimes because we really do attach with that sense of awareness that's the last bastion of I of I-ness and we really think this is me, because this is everything, I mean everything falls into this thing, everything that I do, everything that I see, everything that I perceive falls into this, at least this, you know, this I, this I'm there, and even saying I is too coarse for it, because this is so subtle, so pure, and so, and that's the genius of the Buddha, because from what I understand, other teachers at this time figured that out.

Too that this was pretty a pretty profound state to be in, but he went beyond that. He actually even understood that this was fabricated, and even still mind, clear mind, is fabricated from previous bhava, from previous conceit, from previous me, my mind. And now at this point it's temporary liberation. At this point we have someone who has cleansed their mind of all temporary accumulated activities that would be coarser, and they have this clear, still mind.

But even that consciousness is fully fabricated. It is, and that's another way we can call sankhara fabrications, and without fabrications it doesn't even exist, it doesn't arise. And that's where people will understand: if all sankharas are completely relinquished then consciousness just vaporizes. And so that also helps understand the transition process, where the sankharas are actually pushing according to the momentum that Miqaba gave before. Because Miqaba and sankhara are very entertaining. That sense of holiness, and that sense of that, I really like these, and these, and these things. So your mind will be projected into an existence that has all these things. But really it's not really consciousness, it's just these activities being pushed through those right causes and conditions.

And that's a very fundamental understanding to access nirodha or nibbana, because then one can actually remove the source completely or tranquilize the source completely. Also, the other thing about bhava, just to add to what you just said, is that the Buddha actually gave an interesting image of this whole process of bhava, of the new inclination into a new life.

He said that karma is the field and consciousness is the seed and craving is the moisture. So even when we talk about the four nutriments there, it says they are dependent upon craving. You remove craving of all kinds: craving for sensual pleasures, craving for existence, craving for non-existence, aversion, identification, conceit. If there was not any of that, could that consciousness grow? Could that consciousness continue?

No. Using that analogy, if the nutrition of the moisture of the craving is not provided to that seed, then it won't incline, it won't grow. So paying attention to where the mind is: does the mind have craving, or is the mind without craving? Another shameless father. Another shameless father. But if the mind is without any craving, the idea of a new existence doesn't follow.

Right there and then rebirth is destroyed. Yes, you could say that, but what's going on is the mind is actually still active. It's not still, it's not dead. Mind is still there until the mind is completely gone, then you can't say there's a dissolution of the aggregates. So this is where people experience near-death experiences or out-of-body experiences and things like that. Different traditions, different traditions will keep the body for a little bit, or some will just destroy it right there and then. Like in, I think predominantly Vedic tradition, the idea is to burn the body so that the next existence is followed through, if there is going to be existence. In other traditions they keep the body for a little while because they're saying the mind is still unraveling and so on and so forth.

So the way to look at that is certain karma will still arise. This process is not actually only the eradication of karma. So what is karma? Karma, we know, is actions: intentional mental, verbal, physical actions. Karma is intention. You're purifying your intentions so that potential karma would not arise. But just like karma, just like everything else, has a momentum when it's released. That I mean release in terms of letting go. I'm talking about when the arrow has been released, that karma still has a momentum. That's why even for arahants like Moggallana and Angulimala, they experience the karmic repercussions of their previous actions, even lifetimes, many lifetimes before that particular lifetime.

And the fuel or the stimulus for that is the phassa, is the contact. But the difference is, if that karma arises again dependent upon right causes and conditions, if one is an arahant, then that karma is not added to through further reactions, further craving, but diminishes and ceases right there and then. All right, let's continue to the next sutta. This is Samyutta Nikaya 35.95, Malunkyaputta. Then the Venerable Malunkyaputta approached the Blessed One and said to him, "Venerable Sir, it would be good if the Blessed One would teach me the Dhamma in brief, so that having heard the Dhamma from the Blessed One, I might dwell alone, withdrawn, diligent, ardent, and resolute." "Hear now, Malunkyaputta, what should I say to the young bhikkhus when a bhikkhu like you, old, aged, burdened with years, advanced in life, come to the last stage, asks me for an exhortation in brief."

Although, Venerable Sir, I am old, aged, burdened with years, advanced in life, come to the last stage, let the Blessed One teach me the Dhamma in brief. Let the Fortunate One teach me the Dhamma in brief. Perhaps I may understand the meaning of the Blessed One's words. Perhaps I may become an heir to the Blessed One's words.

What do you think, Malunkyaputta? Do you have any, this is a very important question, listen. Do you have any desire, lust, or affection for those forms cognizable by the eye that you have not seen and never seen before, that you do not see, and would not think might be seen? In other words, could craving arise for an object that was never before experienced?

It's not possible. You need feeling, you need the experience of that object for the potential of craving to arise. Right. But in this case, we're just saying in this moment, if you had never seen any of that, whatever that object was, you had no conception also of what that object was. There is no potential of a craving to arise.

Right, but he experiences the object. If he didn't experience the object, he would not experience the lust. So in other words, feeling is a condition for craving to arise. No, no, he's never experienced the object before. So the eye and the form have not met to give rise to contact. And if there's no contact with that, there's no experience, no feeling. So if there's no feeling, there's no potential for craving to arise. There's a potential for craving to arise, dependent upon that feeling. Yes. Yes.

And so the answer is, no, Venerable Sir. Likewise, do you have any desire, lust, or affection for those sounds, odors, tastes, tactile objects, mental phenomena that you have not cognized and never cognized before, that you do not cognize and would not think might be cognized? Now I will grant you what you just said. If somebody has experienced it before, the memory of that remains.

So it might not be experienced in that moment, but if there's a thought about that, there is a potential craving to arise because there's a mental phenomenon of that previous experience. But if there's not been any previous experience, to say of any contact to arise with that object, then the potential for craving can't arise. That doesn't mean that, so that's one thing. There can be underlying tendencies towards craving. That's why an infant, actually, the Buddha said this to the same person, Malunkyaputta, in a previous sutta, which is sutta number 64 from Majjhima Nikaya. He tells him, if you're going to say that there's not going to be any craving when there is no contact and feeling, what about an infant?

They still have the seeds of craving through the underlying tendencies. So they still have the potential to grasp at things. That potential is still there. But right now, in terms of the experience, if there's no contact, there cannot be any feeling and there cannot be any craving that can arise. Yes, that contact is dependent upon the momentum of the sankharas going through consciousness, nama-rupa, sixth sense basis. That may not happen because now those sankharas might have been replaced by sankharas with no lust.

So Sankaras, that's the beautiful thing about Sankaras, is that they change all the time and they can be changed all the time. They're not villains. Yeah, they're not villains. Yes, exactly. Exactly. You're rooting out the unwholesome and then you're installing the wholesome, but then you have to root out the identification with the wholesome also yeah yeah so likewise he says no venerable sir here malukya puta regarding things seen heard sensed and cognized by you in the scene there will be merely the scene in the herd there will be merely the herd in the sensed there will be merely the sensed in the cognized there will be merely the cognized when malumke putta regarding things seen heard sensed and cognized by you in the seen there will be merely the seen in the heard there will be merely the heard in the sense there will be merely the sensed in the cognized there will be merely the cognized then malumke putta you will not be by that.

When you are not by that, then you will not be there in. When you are not there in, then you will not be neither here, you will be neither here nor beyond nor in between the two. This itself is the end of suffering. There is a lot to unpack in that. Let's go bit by bit what this is actually saying.

First, he says, regarding things seen, heard, sensed, cognized by you. Seen and heard, that's the sixth sense basis. Cognized, thought about, contemplated upon. In the seen, there will be merely the seen. In the heard, there will be merely the heard. In the sensed, there will be merely the sensed. In the cognized, there will be merely the cognized. This word merely, merely the sensed, merely the cognized, merely the heard, merely the seen. Merely means only that. There is only an experience, and that's it.

So right now, when you're hearing my voice and you're seeing all of us, what is going on in your mind? Is it merely just seeing and hearing? Or is it adding a whole momentum of ideas in relation to what is being seen and heard? Is there papancha in relation to what is being seen and heard or contemplated?

How would it arise? Come on, guys. I can't do all the work here. Huh? How does the sense of self arise independent upon that feeling? I am seeing, I am doing, I am meditating, I am. Adding a sense of self arises from conceit, the I-making, the my-making. In other language, ahamkara, that which adds a sense of self to everything. And how does that arise? Clinging has to be there. But how does that potential for the arising of I-making, my-making arise? Sankharas, which are rooted in conceit. But how does that conceit arise? That's a very right answer, it's a right answer. But what specific cause and condition gives rise to the conceit? There is a contact that arises, then the contact gives rise to the feeling. But what happens at the level of feeling that causes the mind to say, this is me, this is mine, this is myself.

Lack of mindfulness. Lack of mindfulness is one of the things. What else? Avijja is another thing. What else? In that moment, what happens? Before the desire happens, before the tanha happens. So contact, feeling and craving, right? What happens between the feeling and the craving that causes the mind to identify with that feeling? Perception is tied to the feeling. What causes the mind to take the perception as me, mind, myself? Right, so that means lack of mindfulness, sati and sampajanna, that's one aspect of it. Some kind of identification, but where does that, what is identifying? Maybe the vibration, the sensation. There is an image that the mind carries about itself. This is conceit.

We talked about the types of conceit. There is, when there is a feeling that arises, there is the potential for certain underlying tendencies to arise. Remember the seven anusayas, the seven underlying tendencies? Underlying tendency towards craving, towards aversion, towards ignorance, towards conceit, towards desire for being, towards doubt, and towards views. One of those things is conceit, the underlying tendency towards conceit. So there is a self-image that's there constantly, which compares: how does this feeling arise, when this feeling arises, how does it affect that self-image?

Take away the self-image and there is then just the seeing. But the superimposition of that self through that image that you have, the mind has about itself. What is that self-image? I am a person. I am a teacher. I am a woman. I am a man. Right? I am of this particular political affiliation. I'm a Buddhist. I'm an Indian, I'm an American, I'm a Canadian, so all of these different elements create this sense of self, and depending upon the experience, the contact with which gives rise to the feeling, to the rise to the experience, there is always that constant judging, dependent judging, comparing: how does that affect me, how does that affect me as an identity? It's an identity view. It's a view you have about an idea of a self. It can be a thought, just a thought.

So the adding of that thought to the experience, then the craving arises, then the aversion arises. Otherwise, if there was no concept, conceit, no comparison of how this affects that self-image, then there would be no one to crave, there would be no one to have aversion, there would be no pleasant feeling that affects a me in a certain way, A painful feeling that affects a me a certain way. A neutral feeling that affects me a certain way.

So that image of me, that is what then creates this idea that I have to grasp it or I have to push it away. Is that image just important? Which is just like, why don't you spend more time asking who am I? I think we should figure out who you are, you. I think I'm just trying to digest this, because in this mind, it feels like this very craving is I, not I, gives rights to crazy, which is usually the way we see it, but it feels like

when craving arises, that gives rise to identity, but even before the craving arises, the craving then brings up or sheds light on that sense of I. Yes, yes, that's what I mean. The anusayas, there's a momentum that I is like, because some of it is so kind of subtle that it's not like you're going to think there's an I behind, but it's just such a... And it's like it happens concurrently or almost concurrently. It's not like one necessarily proceeds or follows the next, but it's all happening, sometimes in tandem.

But if you really have the sharp clarity of mind, in general I'm saying, if anybody has that sharp clarity of mind, they can immediately catch the sense of I coming up and let go and just let the experience be the experience. Let the seen be merely the seen. Let the heard be merely the heard. Let the cognized be merely the cognized. So then he says, oh. As a student, I am sitting and I am doing jhana, I will let it go and I will go to the gym. So, there I am not interested. You are not interested in? Now, I am open and I am sitting here. I will increase the window. If jhana, let it go.

Let go of the jhana. Yeah, you're saying I won't come in jhana. You say there's no I, and you're saying, well, with jhana is a temporary liberation, right? But you're saying there's no 'I' in jhana. So what I'm trying to get at about that also, since you bring this up, is that in the meditation there is only the meditation. There is no 'you' in the meditation, no 'you' before the meditation. No 'you' after the meditation.

And just that is the end of suffering. Just let the meditation be. That's the fourth Satipatthana. Yes. Dhamma as Dhamma. When you sit down and have gladness, joy, relaxing, body goes up, jhana. Jhana happens. It's not you. Yeah. That's the nature of mind. That's how mind works, it's not you. Same for the five aggregates, same for all the four, even the hindrances, even the hindrances. It's just that's why it's the last one, to see all the principles of nature in action and develop them to reach the condition. But also, when you sit down to meditate, you actually should train to see it as the fourth Satipatthana. You're sitting down, applying some principles that will uplift your mind into liberation.

But that's not you, it's just principles. And to add to that point, you could just sit there and allow the causes and conditions to be there for the jhana. In other words, if your mind is free of hindrances, it experiences naturally that relief. Allow that relief then to turn into joy. Allow that joy then to turn into sukha and tranquility. So this is what is meant by just observing, just watching things as they are. Even while speaking also, I should experience the speaker. In the speaking, there is only the speaking. There is no speaker. I'm not sure for the intellect that they didn't have a speaker. See, that's the thing, right? Experience the speaker. Speaking is a little tough, though.

Speaking is a little harder, though. Speaking is a little harder to let go of the I in the speaking. So in the speaking, there is only the speaking. There's no this or that of I am speaking or I have to say this or I have to say it in this way. There is just speaking. The implant of the I in relation to any activity. This is what I mean when I say experience everything fully.

Experiencing everything fully means being present in that experience, allowing mind to be completely aware and fully comprehending that experience without any I in there, without any me, myself, or mine in there. Yeah. Just to that point, there is that sutta where Sariputta is coming back from his days abiding, from his practice, and he's glowing, you know, and Ananda says, 'Venerable, your features are bright, your faculties look clear. What is it that you're doing?' And he says, 'I've been in the first jhana all day long.' And what happens after that?

Well, that's one day, and then there's another sutta for the next day, and it's the second jhana, it's the same formula until cessation. Yeah, we never... Yeah. Sariputta says, yeah, he says there is no idea or notion that I am entering the jhana or I am in the jhana or I have come out of the jhana, and that's why Ananda says to him it must have been a long time. No, he doesn't say that it must have been a long time since the venerable Sariputta has cultivated... Yes. He says to the effect that is because there is no more conceit in the mind, so jhana without conceit. Advanced meditators, the more meditators will go further on the path, that's more what it's going to look like.

Yes. It's going to be sitting. I think Nelson says do nothing quite a bit. Yeah. And that's what it means. It's just that at the beginning you need instructions, you need directions, and that's really important because we want to know that you're going in the right direction, take going through the right steps. But after a while then the mind will just know, it will just know what to do. It will sit down and it will know that if it does anything it will get in the way. So it's a matter of doing nothing, taking a step back, and if the mind inclines into seeing what's going on it can, but most likely it won't be interested anymore, because it's seen the process so many times that it just knows what's going on. Yeah. So there is no I making. There's no mind making that I am entering jhana or I am in this particular jhana, I'm coming out now. It's not really interesting, just thinking that would be too heavy. So it just prefers not to think about it.

And the other thing is, I think as an exercise for you guys, outside of the practice and going out in daily life, have you noticed when you're listening to someone in a conversation, what the mind is doing? The mind is coming up with a response to what is being said. The mind is coming up with a question that has to be asked in relation to what's being said. So in that, is there actually listening going on? Or is there a process of prapancha in relation to the listening going on?

So in the listening, make this a practice. In the listening, listen 100%, full attention to what is being said. And if you catch the mind trying to come up with the response, let that go, relax, and keep listening. So, this idea of a sense of self, this idea of me, mine, myself, happens as a result of the conceit that is ingrained. Let's say not in the experience. The experience is as the experience is. It's how the mind interprets that experience. The mind interprets that experience as a me, mind, or myself. If you catch the mind doing this and you let go of it and let the experience just be there, then no potential for craving can arise, no potential for clinging can arise, no potential for bhava can arise in that moment that a feeling arises and passes away. It dissipates. Likewise with the hindrance: the hindrance was not caused in that moment by you, it arose because of causes and conditions. But the engagement with the hindrance as this is my hindrance, I have to do something about that hindrance, flourishes that hindrance, nourishes that hindrance.

But if you see that hindrance for what it actually is, here is present a hindrance, and then let go of any reaction to that hindrance, and then gently bring that mind back to home base, back to base camp. Then the hindrance goes away. That hindrance is karma. All experience is karma one way or the other, either through intention that you're actively doing something or experiencing the consequences of. Now that experience, this experience that old karma is to make contact with and felt and experienced. This is what the Buddha says. Old karma is the eye, is the ear, is the nose, is the tongue, is the body, is the mind, to be made contact with and felt. And then that's it. If you just experience things in that way, then the karma dissipates, arises again with a weaker energy. Same with the hindrance.

But if there's no engagement with it, with the sense of eye, it goes away. If there is, it adds further through the fuel of craving, through the fuel of clinging, through the fuel of inclining to become something, through habitual tendencies, and there is birth of new action, which just adds to that repository of karma. All right, let's continue.

And so Malunkyaputta says this: "I understand in detail, Venerable Sir, the meaning of what was stated by the Blessed One in brief. Having seen a form with mindfulness muddled, attending to the pleasing sign, one experiences it with infatuated mind and remains tightly holding onto it. Many feelings flourish within, originating from the visible form. Covetousness and annoyance as well, by which one's mind becomes disturbed. For one who accumulates suffering, thus Nibbana is said to be far away."

Muddled mindfulness, what does that mean? Improper attention. Ayoniso manasikara. Not paying attention to the experience as an experience. Seeing permanence in that which is impermanent, seeing happiness in that which is inherently suffering, seeing self in that which is not me, not mine, not myself, misapprehending the experience. That is muddled mindfulness. Based on that muddled mindfulness, you attend to that pleasing sign, which, attending, meaning paying attention, through attention, that consciousness flows to that sign, to that experience. And now the microphone has ceased. No more, the sankharas are done, are over.

All right. Old school. They were said to have a voice that spread evenly in the room without going beyond its limits. But everybody can hear? Can everyone hear me? Yes. Okay. Good. Attending to the pleasing sign, which means the consciousness has gone to that sign, apprehended that form, that experience. One experiences it with infatuated mind. What does that mean? Infatuated mind: a mind with craving, a mind that is grasping, a mind that sees this as me, mine, myself.

That is the conceit, and remains tightly holding on to it. That's the clinging. Many feelings flourish within. What does that mean? Feelings flourish within. Within what? Within the mind. Many sankharas arise, giving rise to further thoughts, prapancha, mental proliferation, originating from that visible form. Covetousness and annoyance as well, greed and hatred, by which one's mind becomes disturbed, naturally. For one who accumulates suffering thus, in other words, suffering also is karma.

One who accumulates karma thus, how does one accumulate further karma? Let's take the example of the hindrance. The hindrance arises, that is old karma to be experienced and felt. The mind looks at that and says, that affects a sense of me, that I'm taking this personally, tries to push it away, or if it's a good kind of feeling, it grabs onto it. And then mental proliferation arises from that. That mental proliferation adds to that hindrance. That hindrance becomes stronger in its momentum.

That hindrance flourishes. And so what are you doing? You're accumulating more suffering by doing that. And are you close to Nibbana when that happens? Not at all. So likewise, he says, having heard a sound with mindfulness muddled, having smelt an odour with mindfulness muddled, having enjoyed a taste with mindfulness muddled, having felt a contact with mindfulness muddled, having known an object, cognized an object, with mindfulness muddled, attending to that sign, taking it personally, one experiences it with a craving mind and remains holding tightly to it, clinging to it. Many feelings flourish within. Mental proliferation, prapancha, arises, originating from that object, not from the object itself, originating from taking that object personally, thinking about that object in reference to a me, mine or myself, by which one's mind, covetousness and annoyance, ... Yeah, but nowadays the teachings have been so different now, so we don't have the same causes and conditions. I mean, I've met monks that were more interested about technology, and I've met many people that were more interested than anything else, but I always say there's also a fifth requisite nowadays.

Wi-fi. But yeah, I think it's such an amazing, anybody that takes on the road, very, very, of course, otherwise, yeah. The Vinaya was not laid down just to attain Nibbana. It was laid down for the long-lasting, which is why we're getting it now. So we had this nature of functioning. Yes, yes, yes. Of course it's important. In other words, no, I'm right.

Any other questions? Yeah. As best as you can, with the language that you can use to experience, to explain the experience, and there are certain commonalities in terms of an experience, so that commonality allows a teacher or a guide to know, okay, what he's saying here, what this person is saying here could imply that this is where they're at, and accordingly help the meditator make adjustments based on experience. So you need someone who's a competent teacher or a guide to help guide you through those experiences. Of course you could always go into the suttas and try to see, is it matching what's being talked about in the suttas as well.

But more often than not, when you do have an experience and you go back to the suttas, you'll find that your understanding of the sutta becomes even greater because you've already experienced it, and it's just you're able to recognize, oh, this is what they're referring to, or this is what they're talking about. So there's supposed to be a level of awareness of the experience that's required, so that when you have an experience, or you have something that happens new, try to write it down after you finish your meditation and make notes of what it is that you experienced, and then tell the interviewer, this is what's happening, and they will at best be able to provide you some kind of advice on what to do next.

He is speaking short of the language, short of the language. But there are certain words you could use. It's like this or it's like that. Which is why I would suggest to everyone that when you're meditating keep a notebook handy and after you come out of your meditation just take a couple of minutes to let the mind review what happened in that session you will recollect what happened and then you just write as best as you can what happened how no no it shouldn't i mean it's just for just a few moments you know it helps you to understand what's going on or if you have a good memory and you remember what's going on then retain that memory and let us know.

Anything else? What is that, role models in the lay community? Visaka is one, Migara's mother. Did she become a mom? There's two Visakas, no. Chitta, yes. Yeah. I think there's a book called The Great Disciples of the Buddha. If you read that, you'll probably get some idea of some of the examples of lay students that are good examples. We can do it. We can do it. Thank you. Um, well, I think there's a question like this in almost every retreat. There are examples of lay disciples becoming arahants in the Vinaya, for example, there's Yasa, and maybe a handful, right? Maybe even just a two. Yeah, two or three, three or four. Yeah. What happens is they would become arahants right beside the Buddha, and then they would ask

so they would go forth yeah yeah so technically there's no like walking around really but yeah if you look at the causes and conditions it's like you put those there or maybe it was really easy uh now it's not like it's not that easy like i'm from canada or dating is not easy at all so if uh i'm not saying but if someone were to be in a western country for example it would be hard to ordain then there's a a whole question about, well, you need to find a place to do it that will soon be when you practice it. Because if you go somewhere that you're not really interested in, for example, how Buddhism has become in that particular monastery, then why would you do that?

So then that even blocks way more options, which are already few. There seems to be that there would be a tendency for a late arahant to be very disenchanted with lay life and to see going for it as extremely natural, but we don't know about that. We'll let you know when that happens. Yeah. And then we'll support the causes and conditions for peace to happen. Right.

Yeah, there's no, there's, so that's the thing: there's no guilt here. Like, there's nowhere in the text where we can find that it doesn't exist, and there's nowhere in the text that would seem to give like any kind of clues that an arahant would want to be a big person in place, that it would make sense. There is a sutta called the Tevijja, I think, right, the Tevijja Sutta or something, which is in Majjhima Nikaya. It's in the 70s, somewhere in the 70s.

And there the Buddha says that it would be impossible for one to become an arahant if the fetters of householdership are still present in their mind. Now, the fetters of householdership, what does that mean? It could be interpreted as meaning they have been completely disenchanted with lay life, therefore they go forth and become bhikkhus or bhikkhunis. But the fetters of householdership means that there is still an inclination to follow a householder's life, meaning still an interest in earning income, still an interest in maintaining a family, still an interest in doing all of these things that are normal for the household life.

A broader perspective would be that if there was a person who was technically a lay person who became an arahant, they would be completely uninterested in maintaining a family, having an income, paying their taxes. I think nobody. But they would have an inclination to be more like a monk, let's say, more like a wanderer, more like someone who is dependent upon others rather than trying to make something for themselves.

So, yeah. I think one of the best examples or proofs that we have is when the Buddha is explaining at the very beginning of the path about Bikuti Banda, in the Africa, where he is explaining, like I said the other day, basically, he's explaining it's Mahamogal Banda or Sariputta Banda, asking what about how long did the previous sasanas, the dispensations of the previous buddhas lasted and why did they why some lasted for long and why some lasted for very short years of time and the answer that basically uh the the buddhas that thought uh the dhamma but not the vinya didn't lay down the party woke up for the monks and didn't lay down the video uh their Their dispensation, their sasana, lasted very short, because the teaching just wasn't bound by anything, and they just disappeared.

Even though, you know, some bhikkhus would teach in very eerie places, scary places, very profound discourses and very quick awakenings. Even though they did that, not many people could reach out because it was scary, it was far away in the forest, and it was a very difficult time. And they wouldn't lay down the Vinaya or anything, and it didn't have such an impact.

And it would be just like a, almost like a solitary Buddha, who breaks through to full awakening by himself, doesn't know how to teach it. Then the Buddhas that actually laid down the Vinaya and laid down the Patimokkha, their sasana went for a long time and helped a lot of people, and that de facto means that if there's no Vinaya, if there's no Patimokkha, there's no real... yeah. So maybe someone goes for it, but if there's an opening up to do whatever, then very quickly, since there's no rules, there's no binding process, the structure falls apart. Yeah, there are different ways. And also there is an example, of course, granted, Bahiya in the Bahiya Sutta. He's technically a wanderer, don't know if he's actually like a samanera or a monk, but he's just a wanderer, maybe an ascetic or something. And then he goes to the Buddha and he gets that short discourse, and then this is why I tell you, if you become an arahant, look both ways, because he walks and he gets gored by a bull.

So then when his body is gone and everything, they ask him what should we do and where is Bahiya. And the Buddha said he became one of the arahants. He is of our clan in that sense, even though technically he didn't go forth or take refuge in the Buddha afterwards. But regardless, again, he was already living a lifestyle that was conducive, like he would live a lifestyle of a bhikkhu or a monk. But it's interesting. He didn't take refuge. He didn't. Yeah.

Right. Right. But the external aspect of it didn't actually happen. But that's the other, the flip side of, it's either, is it possible for a lay person to become an arahant, and it's either they would actually go forth right there and then, or they would die. Right. So I didn't mention the other one. Right. But it's kind of known that they would die within seven days. That's what the tradition says, something like that. Again, the seven day thing, we don't know. We just have examples of these people that are dying and we have the ones who do this workshop. It's okay. Yeah. Yeah. And she was discussing with me with her speech and when she came out of her career and that was her approach and he was asking now what's going to be wrong and she said she's now ready to be the guy of the world to become a knight and she said I don't want her to die to become a knight. So, he was like the time in time.

They have to become a member of the bhikkhu sangha, and so on. So we're just discussing different examples of all of that. Who became a stream entrance? You said a drunkard? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, well, he took refuge in the Buddha, Dhamma, and Sangha. At the time of death, he took refuge in the Buddha, Dhamma, and Sangha. The underdog training, any other questions? Yeah, I guess the Vinaya was developed concurrently to the time of the Buddha, right? Yeah. But it happened much later, or did it happen... The time of the Vinaya started to take these goals quickly after the review. The Buddha said, we know the time, when we establish goals. Okay. The time of the Vinaya started to take these goals quickly after the review.

At the beginning, it was only arahants and noble people, so there was no need for rules within the Sangha. But it was much later that people started also making mistakes, ordaining with less of an attainment, being much more new to this whole thing. And the more it progressed, the more it was more like people ordaining. When the Sangha was very famous, it was known as being very wealthy, just wearing really good robes, having three really good robes.

And a bowl is, and being fed every day is, at that time, for very poor people, even today, people would definitely want to ordain just to get fed and get really nice throws, and then it still happens today, and the respect, and the respect, and that's not even talking about the respect that comes with it. So the more it happened, the more people ordained for the wrong reasons. To protect the Sangha, these rules are put down, and gradually they became implemented, like Bhante was saying. The Buddha would always wait for the right moment, when somebody would do something that was obviously, okay, we need to do something about this, and then he would, but not without any reason. Yeah. I have a question about practice. To have a cessation between that, we have to monitor this, and channel is possible? It means that somebody and somebody come together. Yes, but you are the other type of somebody, like long chance, as, as what long chance? It's a very famous meditation technique in Ayana, Tibetan, because we learned before.

Lama, Yana, Dzogchen. Dzogchen, Dzogchen, Dzogchen, Dzogchen. He is a Dzogchen with the right understanding of Niyong, fostering the best misenchantment name, this person. Can it be like that? Only this type of somebody, only this jama type of somebody can so that's becoming quite speculative. That's the thing we're gonna have to ask somebody who's done Dzogchen, and then ask them to do some vipassana along with that and see what happens, so you may have to check it with experts. Yes. Okay, good.

May suffering ones be suffering free, and the fear-stricken be fearless. May the grieving shed all grief, and may all beings find relief. May all beings share this merit that we have thus acquired for the acquisition of all kinds of happiness. May beings inhabiting space and earth, devas and nagas of mighty power, share this merit of ours. May they long protect the Buddha's dispensation. Thank you.