Day 5 2022 MN 18 Honey Ball Sutta - Proliferation-with Delson Armstrong

So today we are going to be reading from Majjhima Nikaya 18, Madhu Pindika Sutta, the honey ball. Thus have I heard, on one occasion the Blessed One was living in the Sakyan country at Kapilavatthu in Nigrodha's park. Kapilavatthu was the Buddha's birthplace, or place where he grew up, and that is now located in modern-day Nepal. Then when it was morning, the Blessed One, dressed and taking his bowl and outer robe, went into Kapilavatthu for alms.

When he had wandered for alms in Kapilavatthu and had returned from his alms round, after his meal he went to the great wood for the days abiding, and entering the great wood sat down at the root of a bilva sapling for the days abiding. The days abiding, that is what you guys are doing all day long, meditating.

That could be four hours, that could be six hours, that could be eight hours, it could be twelve hours. Dandapani, the Sakyan, while walking and wandering for exercise, also went to the great wood. And when he had entered the great wood, he went to the Bilva Sapling, where the Blessed One was, and exchanged greetings with him. When this courteous and amiable talk was finished, he stood at one side, leaning on his stick, and asked the Blessed One, What does the recluse assert? What does he proclaim?

Dandapani. He was the Buddha's father-in-law, Dandapani, and he had a chip on his shoulder. Because, obviously, the Buddha, when he was the Bodhisattva, left in the middle of the night, his wife, who was Dandapani's daughter. And the reason why he's called Dandapani is because he had this great golden stick. Danda means stick.

And he would walk around with that stick. And later on, when the Buddha's cousin, Devadatta, created the schism, Dandapani decided to side with Devadatta. He always didn't like the Buddha for many different reasons. So when he says, what does the recluse assert? What does he proclaim? Really what he's saying is, what are you about? He's being rude to the Buddha, obnoxious to the Buddha. What are you talking about? That kind of attitude. What do you know?

So let's separate that statement a little bit, because this whole sutta is actually an elaboration of that statement. But I'll give you a little brief understanding of what he's saying here. First and foremost, he says, I assert and proclaim my teaching in such a way that one does not quarrel with anyone in this world. It's a direct answer to Dandapani, who is looking to argue with the Buddha, who is looking to debate with the Buddha, is looking to quarrel with the Buddha. The Buddha says that my teaching is such that I don't quarrel with anyone. My teaching is not for debating. My teaching the Dhamma is not for having arguments about what is right and what is wrong.

What is the Dhamma and what is not the Dhamma. So he teaches in such a way that perceptions no more underlie that Brahmin. When he says Brahmin, he's not talking about the Brahmins in terms of the priest class of ancient India. He's talking about the Brahmin from what it means, really the word Brahmin, what it means, to be realized, to be awakened. So the awakened one, the Buddha, he's referring to himself or an arahant, the Brahmin. So the perceptions, the sensual perceptions, or let's say the perceptions in general, no more underlie that person who abides detached from sensual pleasures. He no longer has sensual craving. Without perplexity, he no longer has doubt, the fetter of doubt.

Shorn of worry, he no longer has any kind of restlessness. And free from craving for any kind of being. So this is just a summation, a summary, of having destroyed all ten fetters. Let go of any kind of doubt. Let go of any sensual craving. And in turn, any kind of aversion. Let go of restlessness. Let go of conceit. Let go of all views. And let go of any craving for existence or non-existence. When this was said, Dandapani the Sakyan, what do you think Dandapani would have done when he heard this? He shook his head, wagged his tongue and raised his eyebrows until his forehead was puckered in three lines.

Then he departed leaning on his stick. So obviously he wasn't happy with that answer. Then when it was evening, the Blessed One rose from meditation and went to Nigrodha's park, where he sat down on a seat made ready for him and told the bhikkhus what had taken place. Then a certain bhikkhu asked the Blessed One, But Venerable Sir, how does the Blessed One assert and proclaim his teaching in such a way that he does not quarrel with anyone in this world, with its gods, its maras, and its brahmas, in this generation with its recluses and brahmins, its princes and its people?

Mental proliferation is that example that Venerable Ametananda gave us yesterday where he was thinking about something and then it led to another thought and then it led to another thought and then it led to another thought and now you're all over the place. You're clinging to this idea, you're clinging to that idea and you want to do this and you want to do that and then there's bhava and then that could lead to some kind of birth of action. So mental proliferation is three-part. It's the initial craving that arises. So that craving that we talk about, the link of craving,

that arises dependent upon feeling. So that craving can be sensual craving. You hear something and that triggers a memory and then you cling to that memory. So that's the clinging and you think about that memory and you say, oh yeah, I was this in that memory, or I wonder what would happen if we did it differently. All of these thoughts that arise. So that's the bhava, that's the becoming.

Or it could be craving for existence or craving for non-existence. Now, any of these types of craving are dependent upon feeling. Now, in that feeling, we have threefold. There's three kinds of feeling. There's pleasant feeling, there's painful feeling, and there's neither painful nor pleasant feeling. These are the three tones of any kind of experience. So when there is a pleasant feeling, you see something beautiful, you hear something wonderful, you taste something delicious.

You smell something fragrant. You have a very comfortable sitting posture. It's all very pleasant. If you identify with that experience, if you take that experience personally, that pleasant experience, what can arise as a result in that is the underlying tendency to craving. This is the bridge, these underlying tendencies that we talked about, now he just talked about the seven underlying tendencies, these underlie an experience, pleasant, painful, or neutral.

So if it's pleasant, it can give rise if you identify with it. If you say, this is me, this is mine, this is myself, the underlying tendency to craving, that's that branch that goes into full-blown link of craving. That is where the mental proliferation begins. If it's a painful feeling and you say, I don't like it, the initial reaction in the mind is, oh, I don't like this. This is uncomfortable.

And then there's this taking it personally. The taking of it personally, what does that mean, the taking of it personally? How do you identify with something? How do you identify with a sensation? How do you identify with an experience? How does that happen? There's a sense of self-image that you have. You create this idea that this is who I am.

You create this story in your mind of this is me. These are my experiences. These are my memories. And you consolidate them into some kind of sense of self. And this is always there. This is the underlying tendency to conceit. It's always there for somebody who is not fully realized. And that underlying tendency to conceit, that's what says, that's what compares and contrasts all the experiences.

And the litmus test, the touchstone, is that sense of self, that image that you have about yourself. And then every experience is said to be, oh, how does this affect that me? How does it affect the sense of me? And so if it says it's pleasant to me, there's the underlying tendency to craving. If it says it's unpleasant to me, there's the underlying tendency to aversion. If it says it's neutral, I don't care about it, there can be the underlying tendency to ignorance. Now whether it's ignorance or towards views or doubt or conceit or the desire for being, these can underlie pleasant feeling, painful feeling or even neutral feeling.

So how does the underlying tendency to ignorance come about? The very fact that you take this thing personally, this experience personally, whether the experience is a sensory experience, whether this experience is a meditative experience, whether this experience is some imagination in your mind, whatever it might be, when you have that sense of self, that intrinsic sense of self of taking it personally, that is where the conceit, the underlying tendency to conceit, is. Dependent upon that, depending upon what kind of feeling it is, there can be the underlying tendency to ignorance. What is ignorance?

Ignorance is not being aware of the Four Noble Truths. Forgetting to 6R. Because, what are the Four Noble Truths? That there is suffering. That there is a source or origin of this suffering. That there is a cessation of that suffering. And that there is a way leading to the cessation of that suffering. Now, you have a pleasant feeling. Or you have a hindrance that arises.

You take that hindrance personally and you judge yourself and you say, Why am I feeling this sensual craving? Or I don't like that I'm feeling this way. Or I don't like this particular hindrance. And now you have mental proliferation. You have self-doubt, which creates more self-doubt. You have restlessness, which creates more restlessness every time you take it personally.

But if you recognize the hindrance, that is recognizing the first noble truth of suffering, this hindrance is the suffering. And then you release your attention from that, the undue attention to that hindrance in the form of clinging to it, in the form of wanting to push it away, in the form of taking it personally, that is the source of that hindrance. That is the source of that hindrance staying there. The undue attention feeds that hindrance further.

So that is a type of craving, that reactivity to that. You release, you relax. When you relax, your mind becomes free of any kind of craving, so it experiences the third noble truth of the cessation of craving, which is the cessation of suffering. Then you come back to the re-smile, and then you come back to the object. This coming back to the re-smile, coming back to the object, is the fourth noble truth. The cultivation of the way leading to the cessation of suffering. That is the eightfold path. Because the 6R's is right effort.

And right effort is the core of the eightfold path. It is through right effort that you go from the wrong view to right view, the wrong intention to right intention, the wrong speech to right speech, the wrong action to right action, the wrong livelihood to right livelihood, the wrong mindfulness to right mindfulness, the wrong collectedness to right collectedness. So using the 6R's at the experience, whatever that experience is, if you notice that the mind is clinging to that experience, if you notice that the mind is becoming engrossed in that experience, identifying with that experience, you recognize that. Release your attention from that. Relax, re-smile, and return back to that wholesome mindset.

What about the underlying tendency to doubt? The underlying tendency to doubt is about doubt in reference to what is wholesome and what is unwholesome. What is the right path and what is the wrong path? So, if there is an experience, you might have confusion about what to do with that. That's the perplexity. Am I meditating? Am I in the first jhana? Or am I in the seventh jhana? Am I experiencing equanimity? Do I have a hindrance?

I wonder if I'm doing this correctly. Do I remember the instructions that were given? All of these kinds of thoughts, this is the kind of underlying tendency to doubt, right? So there's an experience that you have in meditation and you think, wait, is this the right thing that I should be? Is this the loving kindness that they were talking about? Is this the equanimity that I'm supposed to experience? All of these are the, this is the hindrance of doubt, right? So let go of that. Let the meditation flow. Stop trying to analyze what's going on. Stop trying to unnecessarily investigate what's going on.

The true understanding of investigation of states is the understanding of what is present and what is not present. What is present and what is not present. Meaning, you understand, okay, there is present right now doubt. Or there is present right now craving. Or there is present right now loving kindness. That's it. If there is doubt, if there is craving, if there is restlessness, you 6R and come back to your object of meditation. What about the underlying tendency to views? These views are about, you know, self-views: I am this, or I am that, or this is me, or this is mine.

Right, this is related to conceit, but this is also related to self-view and other kinds of wrong views. You know, you kind of try to justify why is this there. You try to justify or analyze why is it present, why is it not present, right? And then there's also underlying tendencies to view in terms of if something pleasant happened, you'll say, oh, I just got lucky, you know, or you'll identify with it and say, oh, I don't know how this happened. You know, there are these different kinds of views that arise in reference to feeling, in reference to perception, in reference to the world, and in reference to self. We'll talk about that when we talk about clinging to views,

right? So it's a clinging to wrong kinds of view. Wrong kinds of view with the idea that this was fated to happen. That's a kind of wrong view. Or the wrong view that I have to do something about this by purifying my karma. That's an aesthetic kind of view. Or there's nothing wrong with what I'm doing, even though you know it to be wrong. There's that little nudge in your mind that says this is probably not what you should be doing. And you'll say, oh, it's no big deal. Nobody has to know. That's a different kind of wrong view, because you think, oh, nothing really matters. There's no karma here. There's no cause and consequence here.

That's a different kind of wrong view. So these are the different kinds of underlying tendency to views. What about the underlying tendency to the desire for being? The underlying tendency to desire for being. That's bhavatanha. That means the desire to exist in a certain kind of way. You have a pleasant feeling and you say, I hope this feeling doesn't stop.

You experience loving-kindness and you say, I hope I can stay with this loving-kindness. As soon as the loving-kindness fades away, you say, what happened? You try to hold on to that. In this meditation, you don't hold on to anything. The objective is not to hold on to anything. The object of meditation is a means for your mind to be stable.

It's a means for your mind to be collected, to be centered. So, which means that you're just using it to let your mind be collected, the unification of mind. Anything beyond that where you try to hold on to the object is an underlying tendency to desire for being. So joy comes up and you say, oh, the joy dissipated. I must be doing something wrong, right? So let go of any attachment to how things should be or how things should not be. That's another kind of desire for being.

Right, it's like, I don't want to be in this particular retreat, or I don't want to be doing this, or I don't want to be doing that, I don't want to be that. That's the beginning of desire for non-existence. So let go of attachment to any kind of experience in this retreat. Make it a point to just allow experiences to flow without identifying with them. Be like that audience who's just watching a movie. It's just playing out a movie.

Don't get caught up in what's going on in the movie. The movie may be interesting, may be pleasant, may be unpleasant. It might be a romance, it might be a drama, it might be a comedy, it might be a horror. Whatever kind of film it is, just watch it. Don't get engrossed in it. It's just a movie. Just watch everything as it is without identifying with it, without supplanting that sense of this is me, this is mine, this is myself, to that experience, whether it's right now or whether it's when you're meditating. Just let everything flow. As soon as you try to hold on to it, there, the craving arises. That's the underlying tendency that gives rise to the full-blown craving, and that craving then gives rise to clinging, and that clinging gives rise to becoming.

And these three are what constitute that mental proliferation. Mental proliferation comes from the word papancha. Papancha, or prapancha in Sanskrit. And prapancha is also known as a vortex. You're getting caught up in this vortex of thoughts, getting caught up in the hurricane or tornado of thoughts. Your goal here, your objective here, is not to get caught up in the whirlwind, but to be in the eye of the storm.

Because when you have that sense of self, that self-image that's always there, when the conceit is there, you still have something to prove. You still have something to defend. You still have something to say: oh, this is wrong, or this is right, according to my sense of self. And so when you have to defend your view, when you have to defend your sense of self, there arises quarrels, arguments, and from that sense of self there can arise even violence, right, taking up of the stick and sword, as he puts it. Or with that sense of self, you have something to prove, or you have something to gain from that sense of self, and sometimes you'll use deceit to get that, and so you use false speech.

So this sense of self, this self-image that you have, try to figure out what that is. Write down in your journal at some point and think, what is myself? Who is this that I am, that I think I am? And write it all down and realize that in those moments, you are not that. It just arises and passes away. The idea of who you think you are is just a little fragment. It's just a little frame, an ever-moving series of frames.

But as soon as you hold on to that, as soon as you make that concrete, as soon as you freeze that frame, that's where the trouble begins. That's where you defend some sense of self. That's where you identify with some sense of self. That is what the Blessed One said. Having said this, the Sublime One rose from his seat and went into his dwelling.

Then soon after the Blessed One had gone, the Bhikkhus considered, Now, friends, the Blessed One has risen from his seat and gone into his dwelling after giving a summary in brief without expanding the detail meaning. Now, who will expound this in detail? You should have asked some questions before you left. Then they considered, the Venerable Maha Kachana is praised by the teacher and esteemed by his wise companions in the holy life. He is capable of expounding the detailed meaning. Suppose we went to him and asked him the meaning of this. Now, Maha Kachana was a great, he was an arahant, for one, and he was a great expounder of a lot of things that were said in brief.

So there's a series of suttas in the Majjhima Nikaya where Maha Kachana gives a very detailed meaning of things that are said in brief. And so he's known as the great expounder, the great elaborator, the one who breaks things down. And he's also somebody who always talked about things in relation to consciousness. So we'll see what he does in this particular sutta. Then the Bhikkhus went to the Venerable Maha Kachana and exchanged greetings with him. When this courteous and amiable talk was finished, they sat down to one side and told him what had taken place, adding, Let the Venerable Maha Kachana expound it to us.

So what do you think Maha Kachana is going to say here? He says, friends, it is as though a man needing heartwood, seeking heartwood, wandering in search of heartwood, thought that heartwood should be sought for among the branches and leaves of a great tree, standing possessed of heartwood, after he had passed over the root and the trunk.

So in other words, you're looking for the core, right? You're looking for the core of this tree, but you're looking at it in the branches and the trunk. And so it is with you, venerable sirs, that you think that I should be asked about the meaning of this after you passed the Blessed One by when you were face to face with the teacher. In other words, why didn't you ask him questions? You had your chance. He was there. You should have asked him questions.

Nevertheless, this is what Maha Kachana says: For knowing, the Blessed One knows; seeing, he sees; he is vision; he is knowledge; he is the Dhamma; he is the holy one; he is the sayer, the proclaimer, the elucidator of meaning; the giver of the deathless; the lord of the Dhamma. That was the time when you should have asked the Blessed One the meaning, as he told you. So you should have remembered it. So this is what the Bhikkhus say: Surely, friend Kachana, knowing, the Blessed One knows; seeing, he sees; he is vision; the Tathagata, and so on. That was a time when we should have asked the Blessed One the meaning, as he told us, so we should have remembered it. Yet the Venerable Maha Kachana is praised by the teacher and esteemed by his wise companions in the holy life.

The Venerable Maha Kachana is capable of expounding the detailed meaning of the summary given in brief by the Blessed One without expounding the detailed meaning. Let the Venerable Maha Kachana expound it without finding it troublesome. So in other words, please give us the answer here, expound it for us. So Maha Kachana relents and he says, All right, I'll do it. He says, Then listen, friends, and attend closely to what I shall say. Yes, friend, the Bhikkhus replied.

Dependent on the I and forms, I consciousness arises. The meeting of the three is contact. With contact as condition, there is feeling. What one feels, that one perceives. What one perceives, that one thinks about. What one thinks about, that one mentally proliferates. With what one mentally proliferated as the source, perceptions and notions born of mental proliferation beset a person with respect to past, future, and present forms cognizable through the I. Let's break this down.

Dependent upon the I and forms. So there is the I, and there are colors and shapes and patterns and forms. The light bounces off these patterns, these shapes, these forms. And then that light, those photons, hit the retina in the eye. So dependent upon the eye and those forms, there is eye consciousness. What is eye consciousness? That is to say, the eye consciousness.

Eye consciousness is the awareness of the eye. Awareness of the experience of the eye. The cognizing of the experience. When you have these three, there is contact. For someone who is blind, there is no eye consciousness. They are not cognizing the eye. They are not able to be aware of the experience of the eyes. So if there is no eye consciousness, and there is light, there is form, there's shapes, there's colors, there's patterns, and the light bounces off them and hits the retina, makes contact with the retina, but there's no consciousness there, because for a blind person it's not there, then there won't be contact.

Contact needs these three. It needs the sense base, it needs the object of that sense base, and it needs the consciousness of that particular sense base. These three constitute contact. What does contact mean? Contact comes from the Pali word phassa, or in Sanskrit that is sparsha. Sparsha literally means to touch. So when they touch, there is the meeting, right? There is the meeting of I and forms.

And dependent upon that experience, depending upon that initial spark of contact, there is feeling. So what is that feeling? That is seeing, the vision of what it is that you are feeling. What one feels, that one perceives. With feeling, there is perception. What is perception? Perception is rooted in memory. When you were in school, when you were in kindergarten, in the first grade, you learned about patterns. You learned about shapes. You learned about colors. You learned about the seasons. You learned about how to tell time. You learned about the months. You learned about the days of the week. You learned about the alphabet. You learned how to write. You learned how to spell. Right? You cognized.

You experienced all of these things. You were learning all of these things. And then they became part of your memory. So now, when you see the color red, your mind immediately sees. That is, the color red, the color itself, makes contact with the eye. There is the eye consciousness, which then gives rise to the contact. And then you see that color.

The knowing of what that color is, that is to say that that is red, is perception. It is the labeling. It is the knowing. It's the mind that says, I know what this is. It's the mind that recognizes what it initially cognized, what it initially learned. When you put your hand on the stove, right, the first time you put it, you're curious and say, what is this? Immediately you feel heat, and now you know what heat feels like. You stay a little longer and it hurts, and now you recognize that as a painful feeling. So next time you're at the stove fire, you will be careful, because you see the stove fire and you perceive it to be hot and potentially painful. That perception is the knowing, the recognition that that fire is hot and that fire can be painful. So it's rooted in memory. What one perceives, that one thinks about. Now, this is very important to understand. What does that mean, when one thinks about? When one has a relationship with it in terms of a sense of self, that is the taking it personally.

That is seeing it or experiencing it and comparing it from a sense of self, that self-image. How does this affect that me? How does it benefit me? Is it mine? Is it me? Is it myself? That is the thinking about it. That's the underlying tendency. And so what one thinks about, that one mentally proliferates. There is craving there, there is aversion there, there is clinging, there's clinging to views, clinging to that experience, clinging to a self-view, right, or clinging to rites and rituals in regards to that experience, and then there is a becoming. You identify with that further and then create the sense of self from which you react. This whole process happens like that. But that is the process that is mental proliferation?

In meditation, that process seems to slow down because you become more mindful, you become more aware, you become more collected. What is that collectedness? If there is a bowl of water, a clear bowl of water, and there is dirt in there, and it's agitated, there's all these ideas and thoughts, there's all of this mental proliferation going on, then there's no way for you to be able to see that mental proliferation. You are in it. The mind is in it. But the moment you settle down, you sit down for meditation,

you clear your mind, you six are you let go, and you collect your mind around something. The dirt in that water settles down and now you see the clarity of that. So you need that process of settling down the mind through meditation, through samadhi. And that is preceded and dependent upon having right mindfulness, being able to recognize your mind being collected or not collected. And that is predicated upon right effort, using the 6R's process.

And that is predicated upon keeping your precepts. Why? Because when you do not keep your precepts, when you do break the precepts, there's agitation that arises in the mind, and it shakes up that water, and you're not able to clearly see. But as you continue to commit to keeping the precepts, as you commit to keeping, you know, all of the... you have the commitment to keep your precepts, but you also have the commitment to incline the mind towards Nibbana. That's the chanda, the wholesome desire. Then that gives rise to naturally the right effort, naturally right mindfulness, naturally collectedness. Then that gives rise to naturally right knowledge, right wisdom, right insight, and right liberation.

With what one has mentally proliferated as the source, meaning whatever you've thought about, you've clung to, you've craved for, you've become that, the perceptions and notions born from that beset a person with respect to past, future, and present forms cognizable through the eye. So in other words, you relate to the sense of self in relation to the past, in relation to the present, in relation to the future. How does that happen? You say, this is how it was in the past, and you compare it to what it is now. Or when you are staying in the present moment with the sense of self, you say, this is who I am, or this is mine, or this is me.

And when you think into the future, that can give rise to anxiety. How will it affect me? Will it be good for me? Will it be bad for me? How should I plan this? How should I do that? All of these kinds of mental proliferation arise. He says the same for this: dependent upon the ear and the sounds, dependent on the nose and odors, dependent on the tongue and flavors, dependent on the body and tangibles, dependent on the mind and mind objects. So now he's saying, in reference to everything we just talked about, with regards to the ear and sounds, the same process happens. With regards to the nose and odors, the same process happens.

With regard to taste in the tongue, the same process can happen. With regard to the body and tangibles, temperature and pressure and so on, the same thing can happen. And with regard to mind objects, what could be mind objects? What did we talk about yesterday? What kind of mind objects can arise? Hindrances can arise. Enlightenment factors can arise. The Four Noble Truths, the understanding of the Four Noble Truths can arise.

Loving kindness can arise. Equanimity can arise. Thoughts in general can arise. Mind objects, right? Dependent on the mind and mind objects, mind consciousness arises. The meeting of the three is contact. Let's simplify that understanding and say there is the mind and there is the mind object, which is loving-kindness. And dependent upon those, there is the mental awareness of that. And now there is contact with the loving-kindness. And then there is the feeling of loving-kindness that arises. And there is the perception that what is present is loving-kindness. What one perceives that one thinks about, that thinking about. Remember, that's very key here. What one thinks about, what one thinks about in relation to a sense of self.

So when you meditate, do you say, this is my loving kindness, I am feeling loving kindness? Oh, the loving kindness went away, something is wrong. But when you have the quiet mind, I am in quiet mind, my mind is quiet, this is my quiet mind, and so on. That's the thinking about there, and in thinking about there, that there is mental proliferation. That's where the trouble is, because as soon as you identify with any of the objects, you need to, you want to hold on to them. You need to hold on to them because the sense of self is dependent upon them, and it feels like it needs to cling to it. It feels like it needs to survive.

Its survival depends upon it. So you feel terrible when it goes away. You have agitation when it goes away. But if you just see everything as an impersonal process, even the meditation objects, even the process of meditation, then it's like just watching a movie. You don't get so engrossed in it. You realize, oh, I'm just watching all this happening.

This happens through that metacognition. You're just watching mind have an experience. You're watching mind meditate. You are not meditating. You are not the meditation. You are not the meditator. There is just an observation of mind experiencing loving kindness. There is an observation of mind being quiet. There is an observation of mind being in the signless collectiveness of mind. There is an observation of mind being equanimous, being joyful, and so on.

This is true meditation, true mindfulness. So, what one has mentally proliferated as the source, perceptions and notions born from that proliferation beset a person with respect to past, future, and present mind objects cognizable through the mind. This is what we just talked about. But now he says, he adds further to this. He says, when there is the I, a form and I consciousness, it is possible to point out the manifestation of contact.

So you have the I, you have the objects, let's say that's me, and you have the awareness of the I. The light bounces off of me and you're seeing me, and now there is the manifestation of contact. But let's say you close your eyes. So now the eye is there, the form is there, but there's no awareness of the eye, and so there is no contact.

If you close your eyes, you can't see me. So there is no manifestation of contact there. When there is the manifestation of contact, it is possible to point out the manifestation of feeling. When there is the manifestation of feeling, it is possible to point out the manifestation of perception. When there is the manifestation of perception, it is possible to point out the manifestation of thinking. Here, it is possible to point out the manifestation of thinking. That thinking, again, the sense of self, the equating to that experience with the sense of self is only possible when there is an experience.

The sense of self is dependent upon having an experience. The experiencer arises dependent upon the experience. The seer, the hearer, the thinker, the cognizer, that arises dependent upon the sight, the sound, the thought, the object of cognition. So that's the only way that thinking can arise. When there is the manifestation of thinking, it is possible to point out the manifestation of besetment by perceptions and notions born of mental proliferation.

So in other words, it is possible to point these out. In other words, it is possible to recognize when these happen. When there is contact, you can recognize that contact. When there is feeling, you can recognize that feeling. When there is craving, when there is a thinking about this in relation to a self, you can point that out. You can recognize that. If you can recognize it, you can release it. You can relax it. You can re-smile. You can return back to an object that is wholesome, not identified with a sense of self. So in other words, you can recognize contact, you can recognize feeling, you can recognize perception, you can recognize craving and aversion, you can recognize clinging, and you can recognize becoming.

And of course, birth of action and the whole mass of suffering. If you can recognize these things, you can let go of them up to a point, up to the birth of action. And I'll talk about that when we talk about dependent origination. Yeah? I have embarrassment arising right now. Oh. My bladder feels like it's about to bloat. Yeah. Can I use the restroom? Go ahead. Would you say that again about the thinker arising only once the thought arises? Right. So the experiencer, the sense of the self, is dependent upon the experience. When there is an experience, when there is a thought, when there is a cognition, when there is a sight, when there is a sound, when there is any of these, there is a sense of self that arises in dependence on that experience. In other words, the mind is prone to superimpose a sense of self to the experience.

It's not because there is an experiencer that there is an experience. The experience is there, whether you know it or not. But the superimposition of a sense of self gives rise to the idea of an experiencer. Now he says, when there is no I, no form and no I consciousness, it is impossible to point out the manifestation of contact. That makes sense, right? If the eye is not present but there are forms, and there won't be any consciousness, there can't be any contact. When there is no manifestation of contact, it is impossible to point out the manifestation of feeling. When there is no manifestation of feeling, it is impossible to point out the manifestation of perception.

When there is no manifestation of perception, it is impossible to point out the manifestation of thinking. When there is no manifestation of thinking, it is impossible to point out the manifestation of besetment by perceptions and notions born of mental proliferation. There's a couple of ways to understand this. One is the cessation of perception, feeling, and consciousness.

When there is the cessation of perception, feeling, and consciousness, even though the sense bases are present, even though the sense objects, the objects of those senses, are present, there is no consciousness, the link between the two, to give rise to any kind of contact. And therefore, there is no rise of feeling or perception. So, when you are in the cessation, or when there is, rather, the cessation of perception, feeling, and consciousness, there can be no suffering.

There can be no potential for suffering. That's the cessation of all conditions. There, the mind is unconditioned. And then when the mind is unconditioned, the first initial spark of when the mind comes back up, there is an experience of that unconditioned for that moment, that contact. And then there is the experience, there is that feeling born from contact with the unconditioned.

Now, when that feeling arises, if there is a thinking about that experience, if there is a sense of self tied to that experience of that joy and that relief someone might experience, the mind experiences after having experienced Nibbana, then there is mental proliferation. So then that means some of the fetters are still present. Some have dropped and some are still present.

When there is no thinking about the experience and there is just the experience, then the fetters drop, because there's no conceit there. And dependent upon that conceit, the restlessness goes away, the craving for existence goes away, the ignorance goes away. So he says the same thing. He says, when there is no ear, no sound, and no ear consciousness, when there is no nose, no odor, and no nose consciousness, when there is no tongue, no flavor, and no tongue consciousness, when there is no body, no tangible, and no body consciousness, when there is no mind, no mind object, and no mind consciousness, it is impossible to point out the manifestation of besetment by perceptions and notions born of mental proliferation.

This is the end of resorting to rods and weapons, of quarrels, brawls, disputes, recrimination, malicious words, and false speech. Here, these evil, unwholesome states cease without remainder. So, in other words, the second understanding of that is, in the fully awakened mind, in the fully realized mind, there is still contact. So it is still possible to point out the manifestation of contact, the manifestation of feeling, the manifestation of perception. But because that fully awakened mind no longer has any conceit, no longer has that self-image which it relates that self to an experience, there is no more mental proliferation. Nibbana itself, one of the synonyms for Nibbana is Nipapancha or Nispapancha, which means no mental proliferation.

That's the mind of the fully awakened mind. That's the experience of the fully awakened mind. It does not relate to everything from a sense of self. It doesn't have any mental proliferation of anything. So Nibbana is understood as that initial experience of the unconditioned and also the mind of the arahat. Because there is a mind without craving there. There's no craving, there's no sense of self, there's no conceit, there's no ignorance, there's no views, there's no doubt, there's no relating to it with a sense of self. So there can be no more suffering.

I understand the detailed meaning of this summary to be thus. Now, friends, if you wish, go to the Blessed One and ask him about the meaning of this. As the Blessed One explains it to you, so you should remember it. Then the Bhikkhus, having delighted and rejoiced in the Venerable Maha Kachana's words, rose from their seats and went to the Blessed One. After paying homage to him, they sat down at one side and told the Blessed One all that had taken place after he had left, adding, Then, Venerable Sir, we went to the Venerable Maha Kachana and asked him about the meaning. The Venerable Maha Kachana expounded the meaning to us with these terms, statements, and phrases.

And so the Buddha says, Maha Kachana is wise, bhikkhus. Maha Kachana has great wisdom. If you had asked me the meaning of this, I would have explained it to you in the same way that Maha Kachana has explained it. Such is the meaning of this, and so you should remember it. When he says that someone is wise or has great wisdom, what he's saying is that someone has had a full understanding of dependent origination. They have fully realized for themselves how dependent origination works.

And it doesn't mean that they have analyzed it. It means they have experienced it. When they have seen it, it means they have actually understood it through experience of how the links of dependent origination arise and pass away. And so from that experience, they become wise. And they have great wisdom. When this was said, the Venerable Ananda went to the Blessed One and said to him, Venerable sir, just as if a man exhausted by hunger and weakness came upon a honey ball, wherever he would taste it, he would find a sweet, delectable flavor. Honey ball. What is a honey ball? It was some kind of a dessert back then. The equivalent of that would be today gulab jamun in Indian desserts.

I don't know if you've ever had gulab jamun, but it tastes pretty good. So too, venerable sir, any able-minded bhikkhu, wherever he might scrutinize with wisdom the meaning of this discourse on the Dhamma, would find satisfaction and confidence of mind. Venerable sir, what is the name of this discourse on the Dhamma? As to that, Ananda, you may remember this discourse on the Dhamma as the Honey Ball Discourse. That is what the Blessed One said. The Venerable Ananda was satisfied and delighted in the Blessed One's words.

Any questions? It seemed that there were the five other grades, except instead of formations, he was using the word thoughts or thinking. So the five aggregates there, we have feeling, perception, and intention. So the intention there are the formations and consciousness. So body obviously is there and so on. But the five aggregates are actually at the level of mentality materiality, nama-rupa, which are the faculties through which the process of contact can happen. The process of feeling can happen. The process of perception can happen.

The process of intention can happen. So if the intention here is not just like, I want to do this, but just the thought, the idea is rooted in the sense of self, rooted in the idea that this is me, this is mine, this is myself, that is the thinking about that we're talking about. And the attention is the cognizing of that experience. That is the consciousness related to the eye, the ear, the nose, and so on. Yes, that's right.

The stopping of the flow of mental proliferation is facilitated by using right effort, which are the 6R's: recognizing that there is proliferation, recognizing there's an identification with this experience, releasing your attention from it, relaxing, and then re-smiling and returning. Well, what he's doing is he's breaking it down into different steps, and these steps happen very quickly. So the steps that he was breaking it down into was the contact, right? So you have the initial spark of the eye in the form, the feeling, the actual experience of seeing whatever it is that you're seeing, and then the perception, which is the recognizing or recognition of what it is that you're seeing. Like if I'm seeing the color red, I'm recognizing that that's red.

And then I think about it and I say, oh, I like red. Red is my favorite color. Or I don't like red. And then that whole idea of identifying with that experience is the thinking about. Yes, because one is that you realize that this is all impersonal. In the first case, when you become a Sotapanna, when somebody attains stream entry, they have let go of the idea of, or the view, the intellectual view of a personal self.

They realize, oh, this is all impersonal. It's happening because of a series of processes. They see it for themselves. And then they start to recognize these different components, these different links. As a result of that, in their day-to-day life they realize, oh, here's the feeling, here is the experience, right now it just happens automatically. They don't have to think about it. They realize, oh, here's the perception, oh, here's the craving, and as soon as you recognize a craving you can start letting it go. As you get through each of the attainments it becomes clearer and clearer and clearer, and so as it becomes clearer and clearer and clearer there is reduced craving, until there is no more craving, until there is no more ignorance, and there is no more suffering.

So it's a reduction of suffering through these attainments. All right, let's share some merit. May suffering ones be suffering free. May the fear struck fearless be. May the grieving shed all grief and may all beings find relief. May all beings share this merit that we have thus acquired for the acquisition of all kinds of happiness. May beings inhabiting space and earth, devas and nagas of mighty power, share this merit of ours. May they long protect the Buddha's dispensation. Sadhu, sadhu, sadhu.