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2025 AN 10.76 'Incapable" with Delson Armstrong Sunday Sutta study

2 March 2025 Talk 51 min Sunday sutta talks

Lightly edited transcript Filler words and caption errors removed by machine; the meaning is unchanged.

Delson reads AN 10.76 ("Incapable") and explains its chains of qualities, each of which must be abandoned before the next can be. He moves from birth, old age and death, through lust, hatred and delusion, the first three fetters, the hindrances and the lack of faith and shamelessness that underlie them. He then takes questions on hatred versus the fetter of ill will, on lapses in awareness during sitting, and on whether investigation (dhamma vicaya) means analysis or discernment.

Key points

  • The sutta lists sets of three qualities in a chain, where abandoning one set is a precondition for abandoning the next, running back from birth, old age and death to lack of faith and moral shamelessness.
  • Delson links the roots of lust, hatred and delusion to the formations in dependent origination, and treats ill will as a manifestation of the deeper hatred rather than the same thing.
  • The first three fetters (personal existence view, doubt, and wrong grasp of rites and rituals) must be abandoned to become a stream enterer, which closes off rebirth below the human realm.
  • Careless attention is the opposite of attention rooted in reality, and mindfulness and clear comprehension are the anchors the mind returns to when it becomes distracted or sluggish.
  • Investigation (dhamma vicaya) is presented as discernment that arises with mindfulness, recognizing what is wholesome or unwholesome, rather than deliberate analytic thinking.

Suttas in this talk

Each opens the sutta on SuttaCentral.

Themes

Awakening · The five hindrances · Dependent origination · The 6R's

Where this talk sits on the path

This talk belongs to a thread that runs along the whole path. It follows the thread of Daily life / ethics, Sutta study series.

Transcript

Introduction to the Three Things

0:09

Yeah, I thought I'll try the Kaboody version, which I have on my Kindle. Oh, you do have that. Let's see if I can share my screen here. Let's see. Okay. Everybody can see this? Yep. Yeah, that's very good. That's perfect. Okay, good. All right, so let me get started. So this is Anguttara Nikaya 10.76. Here the translation is "Incapable." I'll start now. It says: "Because if these three things were not found in the world, the Tathagata, the arahant, the perfectly enlightened one, would not arise in this world. And the Dhamma and discipline proclaimed by him would not shine in the world. What three? Birth, old age, and death. If these three things were not found in the world, the perfectly enlightened one would not arise in the world."

1:28

And the Dhamma and discipline proclaimed by him would not shine in the world. But because these three things are found in the world, the Tathagata, the arahant, the perfectly enlightened one arises in the world, and the Dhamma and discipline proclaimed by him shines in the world. But why does he say that if these three things were not found, you would not have a Buddha arising and the Dhamma would not be proclaimed? Which three? Birth, old age, and death. Why is that? Well, first and foremost, because all beings come into birth, come into existence in one realm or another. Old age. This is what we experience primarily in the human realm. And death. These are the things that the Bodhisatta saw that shook him to his core.

2:31

Imagine you being sheltered from the idea of death, old age, and sickness. And all of a sudden, when you're out, you see people who you haven't seen or recognized being like before, people who are aging, people who are sick. You see a dead body and you're wondering, is that going to happen to me? And so this inspires any Bodhisatta. First and foremost, it disturbs them, it shocks them. But then what inspires them then is to go out into the homeless life, as they say, and the wandering life, become a wanderer and look for the truth of how does one escape from birth, old age, and death? How does one escape from suffering?

3:29

And thereby, the Bodhisatta goes through the process of meditation and insight and goes through the jhanas and experiences for himself the Dhamma. Experiences the release from suffering and therefore becomes the Tathagata, the thus gone one or the thus come one. What is that? That is that reality of Nibbana. Agata or Gata. Gata means to go. Agata means to come back. That's where we get the word Anagami. Anagami. An is no. And Agami means to return. So he's the one who has reached that pinnacle of Nibbana and come back. Or one who has gone to that pinnacle of Nibbana. And therefore he's the first arahant in this eon of Buddhas, or this epoch of Buddha, as Gautama Buddha, the perfectly enlightened one.

The Three Roots: Lust, Hatred, Delusion

4:40

And thereby, because he is a Sammasambuddha, perfectly awakened in the sense he's self-awakened, has the capacity to teach through his wisdom, he then proclaims the Dhamma. But none of that would have happened unless he saw for himself the harsh and stark reality of birth, old age, and death. "Without having abandoned these three things, one is incapable of abandoning birth, old age, and death. What three? Lust, hatred, and delusion. Greed, hatred, and delusion. So these are the three roots." The kleshas, or the kilesas. And the kilesas are basically roots. They are formed in the link of formations. Or we could say that the link of formations are rooted in these, which give rise to the eventual craving link and give rise to the eventual clinging, becoming the birth of new action or karmic action, and the suffering that arises as a result of it.

6:19

So lust or greed, hatred and delusion. What are these three things? Greed is the mindset that I must own something, that can give rise to the fear of loss. So the fear of loss comes when you see something ending, where you know something is going to end. So death, that scares all of us, or has scared all of us at some point: that one day all of this will go away, that I will no longer be able to be with my family, be able to speak with my friends. Or the death of my loved ones means that I will no longer be able to connect with them.

7:08

So that is one aspect. So the fear of loss, that is stemming from greed, hatred, and delusion, and vice versa. When we get afraid to lose anything, we want to protect it even more. We hold on to it even more, and that's greed. Or we punish or push away the things that prevent us from holding on to it. That's hatred. We identify with whatever that thing is that we don't want to lose. And that's delusion. It's the misperception. It's the idea that that which is impermanent is permanent, that which is suffering is happiness, and that which is not self is self. It's the misapprehension of these qualities of reality. But when one abandons them, one lets go of them, one makes an effort to let go of them, bit by bit, the fear of death and aging and so on goes away or starts to diminish and eventually goes away.

Fetters Abandoned at Stream Entry

8:22

And the greed, the hatred and delusion, they start to loosen up in our minds. We start to see what it is. "Without having abandoned these three things, one is incapable of abandoning lust, hatred, and delusion. It is personal existence view, doubt, and wrong grasp of behavior and observances." Without having abandoned these three things, one is incapable of abandoning lust, hatred, and delusion. Personal existence view, that is basically self-view. So what he's talking about here are the first three fetters. So in order for us to eventually fully abandon lust, hatred and delusion, we need to become stream enterers. Because once you become a stream enterer, you close off any possibility of a birth or rebirth lower than the human realm.

9:22

And you are bound for your final destination, which is Parinibbana, which happens when you become fully awakened. And having been fully awakened, you abandon the control of lust, hatred, and delusion in the mind. So without having abandoned these three things, that is to say, without having abandoned the self-view, right? When we say self-view, we're not saying we let go of conceit, the intrinsic nature of "this is me, this is mine, this is myself." We're talking about this intellectual idea of a personal permanent self that we ascribe to that which is not self. It's not saying that we come to the realization that there is no self. We come to the realization that everything is an impersonal process.

10:24

And by doing that, we let go of the attribution of a self to any experience, at least on an intellectual level. So that really means letting go or abandoning the wrong self-views in regards to the 20 self-views. That is to say, taking any of the five aggregates as self, as from self, containing self, or separate from self, which gets multiplied by the four kinds of views. That's the 20 different kinds of self-views. That is what is abandoned in stream entry. Doubt. What is this doubt that we speak of? Doubt in the Buddha, Dhamma, and Sangha. The doubt is replaced by an experiential faith, an experiential conviction that this path is indeed the path to liberation to Nibbana. Isn't that a book? Wrong grasp of behavior and observances. So this is the attachment to rites and rituals with the idea that they will take you to Nibbana. It's the misapprehension of rites and rituals with the idea that if I just do these things, then yeah, Nibbana is attainable, it's there for me. But no, you have to make the effort.

12:03

The rites and rituals, the so-called rites and rituals of keeping the precepts or taking precepts, that's more of a habit that you form for your upliftment of the mind and less a rites and ritual. A rites and ritual kind of process would be animal sacrifices or wearing gemstones with the idea that they're supposed to take you to nirvana, or doing anything that you know is not leading you towards practice, not leading you towards actually sitting down on the cushion, disengaging from the world, and going through the jhanas and experiencing Nibbana. So without having abandoned these three things, one is incapable of abandoning personal existence view, doubt, and wrong grasp of behavior and observances. What three?

Careless Attention and the Wrong Path

12:57

I don't know what happened here. Careless attention, following a wrong path, and mental sluggishness. Without having abandoned these three things, one is incapable of abandoning personal existence view, doubt, and wrong grasp of behavior and observances. Careless attention is coming from the word or term ayoniso manasikara. Ayoniso. Yoniso. Yoni means the source, literally the womb. The source of something, looking at the cause and condition of something. Yoniso. Manasikara. Manas means mind or heart. Manasikara, to take to heart. So usually I translate this as attention rooted in reality, because what it's saying is the careful attention is the right understanding

14:00

the awareness and mindfulness and attention and comprehension of the three characteristics of existence. So even if you're just aware that this is an impersonal process, that is enough. If you're able to disengage with the experience and saying, this is not me, not my, not myself. Not like a mantra, not like I have to keep saying, this is not me, not my, not myself. More like an actual understanding through investigation, through seeing for yourself, that right now what has arisen is conditioned. Therefore, what is conditioned is impermanent, and therefore it's impersonal and liable to cause suffering. So careless attention is the opposite of that. Ayoniso manasikara. Your mind might be scattered, and it's not apprehending, it's not seeing for itself the three characteristics of existence.

15:01

Following a wrong path basically means not following the eightfold path, not having the mundane right view, the right intention of letting go, having loving kindness, having compassion, of keeping the precepts, of having a trade or work or job that doesn't violate any of the precepts. And thereby also having the right effort, right? Having the right effort, which is what? The 6R's. The mindfulness. Remembering to observe how mind's attention moves from one thing to the other. And collectedness. Going through the jhanas. The tranquil jhanas. The tranquil aware jhanas. So that is the right path. So when we follow the right path, this is the eightfold path. Mental sluggishness. What is mental sluggishness? This can be seen as sloth and torpor.

15:59

The mind is just lazy, doesn't feel like making an effort to investigate, making an effort to see into the nature of reality. Without having abandoned these three things, one is incapable of abandoning careless attention, following a wrong path, and mental sluggishness. distraction. Without having abandoned these three things, one is incapable of abandoning careless attention, following a wrong path, and mental sluggishness. So what is muddled-mindedness? It's basically lack of mindfulness. The mind is incapable or is not able to see clearly. I have said this before. Mindfulness is the gatekeeper for where against craving. And so if we don't have mindfulness, what is mindfulness? What are the four foundations of mindfulness? Very broadly speaking, they are body, feeling or inexperience, mind or mental experience, and phenomena.

17:21

So these are anchors. These are anchors for our mind to regain mindfulness. So I would call them the four anchors of mindfulness. They're just things the mind can hook onto, come back into the present moment and be aware of what is arising. When we are not aware, when we have a lack of awareness, then careless attention arises. Then we're not following the Eightfold Path. Then we have sloth and torpor. And the mind gets distracted and then there's craving and so on and so forth. Lack of clear comprehension. So the first is sati, which is mindfulness. The second is sampajanya, that is clear comprehension. This clear comprehension is the seeing how mind's attention moves from one thing to the other.

18:14

So the sati is remembering to do that. And then the sampajanya is actually observing how mind's attention moves from one thing to the other. Where is your mind when you're walking? Where is your mind when you're sitting? Where is your mind when you're eating breakfast? Where is your mind when you're listening to me speak? Where is your mind when you're driving? Where is your mind when you're taking a shower? Where is the mind in every single kind of process? Where is the mind's attention? The ability to see this is sampajanya, clear comprehension. Mental distraction, obviously, can be seen as hindrances. So we have mental sluggishness, sloth and torpor, and then the rest of the hindrances.

Lack of Desire and a Critical Mind

·

Without having abandoned these three things, one is incapable of abandoning muddled-mindedness, lack of clear comprehension, and mental distraction. But three: lack of desire to see the noble ones, lack of desire to hear the noble dhamma, and a mind bent on criticism. Without having abandoned these three things, one is incapable of abandoning muddled mindedness, lack of clear comprehension and mental distraction, lack of desire to see the noble ones. That's an interesting one. So I think it's pretty straightforward, but the way I would explain it is basically there is the idea that there are noble ones present and the spiritual company of them, the friendship with them, to be in communion with them, that desire for that, to see that is essentially that.

20:09

The desire to hear the noble dharma, right? We go through somewhat suffering and now we want a way out of that suffering. We do all kinds of things. Sex, drugs, and rock and roll is one way out of the suffering, but it only adds to the suffering at some point or another. At some point, or at something else, we try meditation. We read different kinds of spiritual books. Eventually we come to the idea that there is the Eightfold Path, there's the four noble truths. Somewhere, another, we come to hear about it, but we might have a lack of desire. So unless there is an interest in wanting to see and understand how to become a noble one, wanting to see and understand how to apply the Dhamma, learn the Dhamma.

21:05

And a mind bent on criticism, what does that mean? It doesn't mean there's a lack of critical thinking. It means that there's a criticism for everything that happens through the Dhamma. Somebody might be saying something to you and your mind isn't able to fully accept it because somewhere in the mind, there is this criticism. The Buddha talked about it in the Kalama Sutta. He said that don't do something just because you hear me say it or because you hear one of my disciples say it. See for yourself. But if you want to see for yourself, you need to keep aside all of your apprehension for a moment and fully immerse yourself in the experience.

22:00

And then make an informed decision based on what you have experienced. So criticism is basically like, kind of like doubt, but more than that, it's critical. It's opposed to the Dhamma. Like, I don't know about this and I don't care about this, or what that person is saying is wrong, or what the Sutta is saying is, that doesn't make sense. Me or whatever can't fully accept it without having tried for yourself, and you're just critical of it for no reason. You just decide that you want to be critical. Bhante Vimalaramsi has had his fair share of criticism because of the way he has is part of right effort. And I've had, and am beginning to have, my fair share of criticism for different reasons.

23:10

And that's okay, because for us who decide to help people and serve people in meditation retreats, in these weekly kinds of talks, and so on, ours is not to convince others. It was never anybody's decision to evangelize the Dhamma. Starting from the Buddha, there was no desire to bring in converts or evangelize the Dhamma or to convince others that you need to do this practice. So I will just go as a teacher to wherever people decide they want to learn or hear from me.

24:02

I'm not in the business of trying to get followers or trying to convince people of things, because if I start doing that then I've lost sight of what my work here is to do on this planet. So we are not supposed to deal with the criticism by arguing and debating and all of that. People will be critical, they're all critical, that's just the reflection of the mind, and that's okay. Our job as teachers and guides and practitioners and spiritual friends is to work with the community that we have and the people that are willing to listen to what we have to say. What is the point of trying to convince somebody else who's critical of this? No need. So you need a mind that is open, a mind that is willing to listen, a mind that is willing to try and see for themselves.

·

If it doesn't work for you, okay. If it works for you, great. Without having abandoned these three things, one is incapable of abandoning lack of desire to see the noble ones, lack of desire to hear the noble dhamma, and a mind bent on criticism. What three? Morality. Without having abandoned these three things, one is incapable of abandoning lack of desire to see the noble ones, lack of desire to hear the noble dharma, and the mind bent on criticism.

Restlessness and Non-Restraint

25:49

Restlessness and remorse. This is the mind that is always anxious about what's going to happen in the future, or having remorse of what's happened in the past. Non-restraint. When we talk about non-restraint, we're talking about samvara of the senses. Samvara really means to correctly apprehend, to correctly understand what's happening. When we have non-restraint, we're talking about letting our minds wander in relation to the sensual pleasures. And when we do that, our mind gets intoxicated by it. And when it gets intoxicated by it, it doesn't think clearly. And when it doesn't think clearly, it thinks that this is all there is to life. So non-restraint of our mental faculties and a non-restraint of our sense faculties gives rise to these things.

26:47

How do we restrain? We come back to our mindfulness. We come back to our awareness. We come back to the present moment. And notice if the mind gets caught up in a sensual experience, caught up in this or that, or mental proliferation. That is how you restrain. It's not about trying to control. You never want to try to control your thoughts. You can't control what you see, what you hear, what you're experiencing. You can't control your thoughts. The idea is to disengage, is to observe and understand. And immorality, the highest immorality, in my opinion, is basically harming another living being. Because if you think about it with the first precept of refraining from harming living beings, it covers the other precepts as well.

27:46

Take what is not given. Therefore, we will not cheat on a person. Therefore, we will not lie to that person. Therefore, we will not get intoxicated and cause unruly behavior to happen that causes disturbance to other people, and that might cause harm to ourselves and to others. Without having abandoned these three things, one is incapable of abandoning restlessness, non-restraint, and immorality. What three? Lack of faith, uncharitableness, and laziness. Without having abandoned these three things, one is incapable of abandoning restlessness, non-restraint, and immorality. Lack of faith. What is that lack of faith? It is essentially the lack of having a mundane right view. Because if you think about mundane right view, what it's talking about is there is an understanding that there is a give and take.

28:55

There is meaning in giving. There's meaning in what is offered. There's meaning in karma. There is meaning in understanding that there is this world and the other. That there is the sensual world and there is a mental world and there are jhanas available. There is a whole process in which we can disengage with the sensual matrix. And that there are those who have experienced this for themselves and are capable of teaching it or guiding, and therefore we go to them to learn, or we go back to the suttas, or we listen to the voice of the Buddha through the suttas. So lack of faith is really, I would say, a lack of right view more than anything else.

29:46

Uncharitableness. Generosity is so vital to this process. We talk about sila, which is ethics, which is collectedness, and we talk about panna, which is essentially insight. But there's another way of looking at it: sila, ethics; dana, generosity; and bhavana, which is practice, the cultivation of an uplifted mind. Generosity is not just giving your money to someone or giving money to a cause or providing food, shelter, medicine, and clothing or robes to the noble sangha, to the bhikkhus and bhikkhunis, or anything like that. It's inclusive of that, but generosity can be as simple as giving your time. This is something you don't get back. Giving your time and your service to people. Lending an ear to somebody who is feeling bad, who's feeling down, who needs to be heard.

31:06

There's also generosity. Your smile, genuinely smiling at the other person and wishing them a good day, wishing them loving kindness in your mind. That's also generosity. Of course, the highest generosity is the giving of the Dhamma, is guiding and teaching people in the Dhamma. And laziness, what is laziness? We have mental sluggishness. And then we have laziness, which is just like, I don't want to do anything. I don't care. I just, there's an apathy in that. And in that apathy, the mind and the body are just easy. They just don't want to do anything. They don't make an effort. It's a lack of right effort. A lack of actually taking the steps and seeing for yourself.

31:56

Lack of even taking the first step. Without having abandoned these three things, one is incapable of abandoning love, being difficult to correct, and bad friendship. Without having abandoned these three things, one is incapable of abandoning lack of faith, uncharitableness, and laziness. Disrespect. What is disrespect? Disrespect for our teachers, disrespect for our friends, disrespect for our elders, disrespect for people in general. Because when you can't respect people, how are you expected to be in a community that can help you? How are you expected to learn from the community that you are in? That's why we talk about friendship, spiritual friendship. You are obstinate. No, I'm right and everybody else is wrong and I can't see through other people's viewpoints.

33:06

And therefore you are difficult to correct, difficult to have an openness to listening to others. There is an exchange between the Buddha and Ananda where Ananda tells him that it looks like much of the path, much of the Dhamma, much of this whole process is spiritual friendship, good companions in the holy life. And the Buddha said, don't say that, don't say that. It's 100% of beautiful friendship, 100% of having companions, a community that is supportive of our practice, that is part of the Dhamma, that engages us in the Dhamma and takes us to Nibbana. Without having abandoned these three things, one is incapable of abandoning disrespect, and bad friendship. What three?

34:05

Moral shamelessness, moral recklessness, and heedlessness. Without having abandoned these three things, one is incapable of abandoning disrespect, being difficult to correct, and bad friendship. Moral shamelessness. So the word shame, especially out in the West, or westernized civilizations. Shame is seen as a bad thing. It's related to guilt. And it's like, oh, I'm looking down on myself. I think another way of looking at it is like looking back on the things that we did that we don't feel good about, that we could correct for ourselves. That's what we're talking about. And we correct ourselves. Can we decide to do better than what we failed to do or failed not to do?

34:58

And moral recklessness, that's what it is. It's like, I don't care. I don't have any guilt. I don't have any kind of ability to see that for myself, and I'll continue breaking precepts because it makes me feel good, at least in the short term, for the pursuit of sensual pleasures. And therefore we have heedlessness. This heedlessness is a lack of proper attention as well. It's this lack of mindfulness. It's this continuous negligence and lack of mindfulness of ourselves in relation to others, of our surroundings, and the consequences of our actions, the consequences of what we say, the consequences of what we think. There is a heedlessness to that. We don't think about how this can cause pain or harm to another or to myself.

35:56

One who is morally shameless and morally reckless is heedless. One who is heedless is incapable of abandoning disrespect, being difficult to correct, and bad friendship. One who has bad friends is incapable of abandoning lack of faith, uncharitableness, and laziness. One who is lazy is incapable of abandoning restlessness, non-restraint, and immorality. One who is immoral is incapable of abandoning lack of desire to see the noble ones, lack of desire to hear the noble Dhamma, and a mind bent on criticism. One who has a mind bent on criticism is incapable of model of comprehension and mental distress. One who's mentally incapable of abandoning self-view, doubt, and wrong grasp of behavior and observances.

37:14

One who has doubt is incapable of abandoning self-view, doubt, and wrong grasp of behavior and observances. One who has doubt is incapable of abandoning self-view, lust, hatred, and delusion. Without having abandoned lust, hatred, and delusion, one is incapable of abandoning birth, old age, and death. And then it continues. So I'll stop there. It just repeats the same stuff. I'm not going to go ahead with that. I have about 20 minutes for questions. So whoever has some questions can start.

Questions on Hatred and Ill Will

38:05

Let's see here. We have John M. Good morning. Can you hear me? Yes, go ahead. All right. Thank you for your time today. I'd like to ask you, I've written this down, so I'm reading. I'd like to ask you to expand a bit on hatred in the context of lust, hatred, and delusion. My question, is hatred the same thing as the fetter of ill will? This is something I've been working on, and ill will doesn't seem to arise for me until there is a foundation of some craving and views. And if I'm in a relaxed enough place, ill will is far away. Now, I've not removed the fetter of ill will since conditions can occur that will still cause me to feel ill will.

38:46

I can catch it and relax it, and it's always the case when I catch it that craving and a view is there first before ill will. Now, the way you've described hatred here sounds like it's something more foundational, that hatred would arise fully formed instead of being formed on a foundation of other components? And that's my question. Thank you. Yeah, there's a way of seeing them as two separate things. We have the fetter of ill will, and we have the root of hatred. So the root of hatred, or greed, hatred, and delusion, are happening at a more, let's say, or a different way of understanding, at a more subconscious level, or so to speak, let go of them as a result of letting go of any ill will that might arise.

39:37

Ill will is a manifestation of hatred, which is, as you said, or you were referring to as more foundational. That's why I'm saying in the scheme of the map of dependent origination, we have the formations. We have ignorance and we have formations. The formations that are rooted in greed, hatred, and delusion ultimately, or at some point, to the potential for craving to arise, the potential for views to arise, the potential for identification to arise, and the potential for ill will to arise. And that ill will manifests as anger, the desire to harm. And when we recognize this and start letting go of it, we are reconditioning the next set of formations that arise so that the foundational roots that are the great hatred and delusion start to weaken.

Questions on Objectless Awareness

40:43

And thereby, it's much easier to recognize when the ill will might arise again. Or at some point, the ill will be diminished in its arising. And at some point, it might not arise at all. Quilly, question. Thank you for doing that sutta. I have something that happens not every time I sit, but often, where I'm present, I'm aware of what's going on in the mind and the body. And then there is, I think I've mentioned before, an objectless awareness. But more recently, I feel like awareness itself goes away. And I don't know it until I'm coming back down or around, or it's not really a direction. Awareness has not been there. And it hasn't been thinking or distracted or something.

42:09

But then when I realize, I often snap out of it because I'm like, what was that? And it's happening quite often. And I'm just not sure how to work with that. There's no working with it when it's happening. But when I'm coming out, I get excited or not pleasantly, just curious and wanting to understand. And that's not in a real skillful way. So I lose my awareness. - But then you're only aware that you lost your awareness after you become aware of it, or you're aware that you're not aware? - No, I'm not aware that I'm not aware. Yeah, but can that really happen? Because I've also had experiences where everything is awareness.

43:10

Yes, it can happen. Yeah, yeah, I definitely understand. It can happen where your mind is so quiet, so very quiet. And it's like the objectless awareness, where there's nothing being taken as an object. And eventually awareness itself starts to just diminish. And there are points when there are pauses in our ability to be aware. And there's nothing to do there or to work with except for the mind to recognize what happened once we immediately became aware that our mind went somewhere, or immediately become aware of what happened prior to that. But that might be the only thing to do there. deeper layer of meditation, for lack of a better word, because it's not really meditation.

44:07

It's just abiding. The mind is just abiding in this place. And so as I become aware again, what's the skillful thing to do? Because it seems like I just get all muddled. Yeah, exactly. So notice the quality of mind. If the mind is muddled, then we know that we need to disengage with that and just relax it, or come back with some more clarity. If the mind is sharper and brighter, or it seems to be more quiet, then we just rest in it so we can make adjustments accordingly. If the mind is feeling groggy, if the mind is feeling sluggish, or if the mind is feeling a bit like it doesn't know where it is, then we know that we just need to bring a bit more concentration or collectedness into this process.

45:07

We need to bring a little bit more attention. But if the mind is bright and clear and it just feels very light, then I would say we just let the mind enjoy that and stay in that. Okay, thank you. Okay. Any further questions? Just in this little break, I will say that Delson does come on here. It's obviously not that we're paying him, but he's using his time to read the suttas and explain them and help everybody, so it would be nice to maybe send him a little tip here and there. I sent a link into the chat. So, all right, more questions? Okay, one last question.

46:15

Enigo, hi Delson, thanks very much for the talk. I have a question regarding investigation, one of the factors of enlightenment, and how that is integrated in the TWIM process, and what exactly are we investigating? It seems TWIM is more oriented towards observation, rather than drilling into things to find out about them, which is what investigation suggests. Yeah, that's a good question, and so this is why I try to stay away from that translation of investigation. This word investigation comes from the original Dhamma vicheya, and vicheya is, like, to observe and understand, and specifically to observe and understand what's happening as a phenomena. Dhamma here is phenomena in the mind. So when we become mindful, we are naturally aware of what is arising. You don't need to make that much more of an effort to analyze it to the depths of it. It's not necessary, because that goes into a process of intentional thinking, and then that creates mental proliferation.

47:29

The scope of the 6R's, what we're saying is, when we recognize that we were distracted, that is the bringing up of mindfulness again. We are, again, mindful of the fact that we were distracted. The knowing that we were distracted is the understanding or discernment. That's a better word I would use: discernment, for investigation from the original Pali. Distraction, the hindrance, and then relax, and then come back, smile, and then come back. The whole process of this discernment is already present. And so that's why, when we talk about things like doubt, the hindrance of doubt, which here when we say the hindrance of doubt, it's not related to the Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha. It's related to the understanding, or the lack of understanding, of what is and what is not present, what is wholesome and what is not wholesome.

48:34

And so it is mentioned in the suttas that this investigation or discernment is the solution, is the antidote for this lack of understanding of what is present and not present. And that is dependent upon mindfulness. As soon as we are able to engage with mindfulness, then we already are aware of what is present and not present, and then make adjustments, which is the process of effort and energy. If you think about it this way, the process of feeling is to experience. It's just a bare sensory or mental experience of something. But the process of perception is that which labels what is being experienced. For example, you are seeing me. That is a process of seeing.

49:22

That is the feeling, the vedana, the experience. But knowing that the one who is speaking is Delson, you are seeing is Delson, and so on and so forth. That labeling process, that understanding process, is perception. In the same way, mindfulness is the bare knowledge of, or bare awareness of, the experience. And then the discernment or investigation is the understanding of what is present and not present. So the recognize step is like, oh, I got distracted. So in that you have two, just like you have feeling and perception intertwined, you have mindfulness and this so-called investigation or discernment intertwined with the mindfulness. Thanks very much. Then we will share some merit.

50:29

May suffering ones be suffering free and the fear struck fearless be. May the grieving shed all grief and may all beings find relief. May all beings share this merit that we have thus acquired for the acquisition of all kinds of happiness. May beings inhabiting space and earth, devas and nagas of mighty power share this merit of ours. May they long protect the Buddha's dispensation. Thank you everyone. See you around. Thank you.