Day 4 Adv Retreat MN 109 Full Moon Night -Amazing Talk-Consciousness and Karma

Today we are going to be discussing some interesting questions related to the aggregates and karma. And this is from Majjhima Nikaya 109, Mahapunnama Sutta. I thought it was actually the best time to do it, because we have a full moon tonight. So it's the greater discourse on the full moon night. Thus have I heard, on one occasion the Blessed One was living at Savatthi in the eastern park in the palace of Migara's mother.

On that occasion, on the Upasatha day of the 15th, on the full moon night, the Blessed One was seated in the open, surrounded by the Sangha of Bhikkhus. Then a certain Bhikkhu rose from his seat, arranged his upper robe on one shoulder, and extending his hands in reverential salutation towards the Blessed One, said to him, "Venerable Sir, I would ask the Blessed One about a certain point if the Blessed One would grant me an answer to my question."

And the Buddha says, "Sit on your seat, Bhikkhu, and ask what you like." So the Bhikkhu sat on his own seat and said to the Blessed One, "Venerable Sir, these five aggregates affected by clinging: feeling, perception, formations, and consciousness that are affected by clinging. Why do we say this here? Affected by clinging." So, there is a way in which the aggregates continue to function through the process of craving and clinging, and there is a way in which, when all craving and clinging are gone, over is in the form of the aggregates until they are exhausted for that particular life. So here the Bhikkhu asks further, "But Venerable Sir, in what are these five aggregates affected by clinging rooted?"

These five aggregates affected by clinging are rooted in desire, Bhikkhu. Where the word desire is coming from, it might be chanda, it might be craving. But in this case, when we say chanda, it has two different connotations. The usual connotation for chanda is that it is a wholesome inclination towards the Dhamma. So you have something like Dhamma chanda.

But in some cases, chanda can be tanha chanda, that is the craving kind of chanda. So then he says, "In other words, we say that the aggregates are affected by clinging, but is that clinging the same as the aggregates, or are they separate?" Leave it to the Buddha to give you a non-straight answer. But here's what the Buddha says: that the aggregates themselves that are affected by clinging maybe have clinging in them, or that clinging is separate to them or separate from them.

But here the Buddha is saying it is that craving in relation to the aggregates. What do we mean by that? There is a sutta called Satta Sutta. S-A-T-T-A. Satta Sutta, which means being. So the word bodhisattva is a being embarking towards enlightenment. So there is a monk who asks the Buddha, what is satta? And we're talking different from the becoming of bhava, because sometimes bhava is translated as being. That's the being in terms of coming into being, the process of becoming.

Here when we say satta, we're talking about a being in terms of a person, a being in terms of a human being, an animal being, and so on. So how does one define a being? What is a being, this monk asks? Craving being designated there. So what do we mean by form? We'll get into that. But essentially, these aggregates, why are there these particular aggregates? Why these five aggregates?

Why not something else? Because in the entire experiential framework of samsara, when we talk about human beings, animal beings, other beings, throughout the cosmos, they have all form, perhaps, up until the formless realms. Above the formless realms, they have no form. However, all beings will have, to some degree or another, the other four aggregates. The ability to experience something.

The ability to feel something. To sense something. The ability to perceive, or perception, which is to label something, to interpret something. The ability to have formations, which is the ability to have intention, to attend to something. And consciousness, the ability to become aware of something. Intend and attend. Intend in relation to the formation, attend in relation to consciousness.

These are the five aggregates, and we talk about five aggregates because as humans, we have form, we have feeling, we have perception, we have intention, and we have attention, or formations and consciousness. So again, he says, it is the desire and lust in regard to the five aggregates that is the clinging there. But, Venerable Sir, can there be diversity in the desire and lust regarding these five aggregates affected by clinging?

Now, at this point, you will suspect that the person asking these questions is asking very specific questions. They are already fully awakened. This monk is asking these questions not to clarify for himself, for his group of students. So he's asking very, very important questions. Let me repeat the question. Can there be diversity in the desire and lust regarding these five aggregates affected by clinging? There can be, Bhikkhu, the Blessed One said. Here someone thinks, may my form be thus in the future, may my feeling be thus in the future. So, yes, it's about the future, but it's interesting where the Buddha says, you don't want to overlook.

So the assumption is about the future, but there is a deeper assumption that these formations, this form, this feeling, this perception, these formations, these consciousnesses are me, mine, myself. And because I may identify with them, may they continue in the way I want them to in the future. But Venerable Sir, in what way does the term aggregates apply to the aggregates?

What do we mean by aggregates? Why do we say aggregates? Bhikkhu, this is the form aggregate. So how do we apply the word aggregate to the aggregates? It's basically any kind of form. The form that we possessed in the future, in the past, so to speak, the form that we possess now, and the form that we may possess in the future, in the three different times, far or near. It doesn't have to be our own form. This table is a form. This book is a form. This meditating Sasquatch is a form. These flowers are form. This chair is form.

The door over there is form. It's far from me. Far and near. All forms in whatever distance it is. That includes as the form aggregate. Internal or external form. External form is the form outside of this particular form. Internal form is any of the sense bases, the nervous system, the organs of the body, the skeleton, and so on. Internal.

Gross or subtle. So here we're talking about gross forms in terms of on the earthly plane, stuff that is happening here. Subtle can be the Deva forms, the luminous forms. Inferior or superior. That could be in terms of the quality of the form. Inferior in terms of it's a broken down form. Superior in terms of it's a beautiful form. Whatever you want to, however you want to express that.

He says all of that is the form aggregate. Any kind of feeling, whether in the past, future, or present, internal or external, gross or subtle, inferior or superior, far or near, that is the feeling aggregate. Any kind of experiences we've had in the past, sensations, emotions, whatever it is that has arisen in the past, are arising now and will arise in the future.

Whatever kind of feeling, internal or external, there is external feeling that is not my feeling necessarily, but a feeling of somebody else. They are having their own experiences, sensations. The feeling internal, what's happening in my own mind, what's happening with relation to the other five physical sense bases, I'm feeling internally. Gross or subtle. So the experience can be gross in terms of they can be related to the five physical sense bases. Or they can be subtle, like what? Loving kindness.

They can be a jhanic experience. Inferior or superior. It can be a feeling that is, again, tied to the earthly plane. It can be a feeling that we don't like. It could be a superior feeling in terms of the sublimeness of that particular feeling, and so on. That all is feeling aggregate. Perception aggregate. Again, what are perceptions?

Perceptions are the recognizing of an experience, the interpretation, the labeling of an experience, that you see here that this is a table. First there is the feeling of seeing the table, and then second there is the interpretation that what you are seeing is a table. That second part is perception. Feeling and perception are conjoined, in the past, that you have now, that you will have in the future, perceptions that are near or far, perceptions that are internal or external, perceptions that you have, perceptions that other people have, perceptions of the gross, and perceptions of the subtle in terms of the experiences of mental states.

Inferior or superior, certain perceptions that are inferior, viewpoints or perceptions that lead to suffering, viewpoints or perceptions that lead to the end of suffering. All of these constitute the perception aggregate. That's why we say aggregate. Likewise with formations aggregate. So the formations aggregate, what is that? Sometimes in the suttas, or the translations of the suttas, they translate as intentions or choices.

Formations as choices, because there is an interconnection between intention and formations. We talked about a little bit. We touched upon volitional formations and karmic formations. You can think of volitional formations as those that are activated due to some kind of an intention. We intend to walk from here to there, and so the bodily formations that arise allow us to do that process.

We intend to say something, so the verbal formations come up for us to be able to contemplate, reflect, think, hopefully speak, and then we break out into speech. We have mental formations that allow us to feel and perceive into what it is that we are experiencing. So formations are dependent upon two things: contact. You need contact in order to trigger the arising of formations for you to be able to either breathe or walk or do whatever it is in terms of the physical.

To be able to reflect and contemplate and think about something before you say or express in speech. That's the verbal. And you need the contact to trigger your sense bases in order for you to feel and perceive. So when we think about dependent origination, it's usually in a linear pattern. Ignorance leads to formations, formations lead to consciousness, and so on.

But there's a lot of different recycling, feedback loops that are happening in that process for the rest of the links to arise. A lot of different interconnections. So we may see the 2D model of dependent origination as a linear process. One day we may create a more three-dimensional model of dependent origination so we can see from where they're all coming and how they with one another.

And then the consciousness aggregate. The word consciousness, vinnana, is used in many different ways. There's the sense-based consciousness, so the awareness that is arising dependent upon the eye and form and the sense-based and the sense-based object meeting together. And then there is another way in which it is the vinnana dhatu, the consciousness element.

So there's six elements in the suttas. Generally we know of the four, which is earth, water, air and fire. Earth is basically the solidity of something. Water is the liquidity of something. Air is the gaseous state. Make up the fire. Then we have something known as the Akasha element, which is the space element. And this is what is creating space for air to flow in and out, for liquid to flow in and out. It's the space.

And so it's all around us. Right now, with this hall, we have solidity with the walls, and we have air circulating through with the fan and the air conditioner, within the vicinity of this space. The planet is moving. It's revolving and rotating and so on. And it's doing it in space, what we just call space. That's the space element.

And then there's the consciousness element. And this is where things can get confusing because then people think all of this is contained within some supreme universal consciousness, and that's the consciousness element. But no, that's not the case. The consciousness element functions just like the space, earth, water, air, fire element. They are like different constituents, different composites of pieces. And so the consciousness element, very simply put, are elements of mind related to mentality.

Related to how mind functions. We all think, when we say mind, where do we always point to? In the ancient days, the mind was here, in the heart. But when we talk about chitta, that's the word that they use, chitta, for consciousness. When we talk about the consciousness element, we're saying mind is not just here or here or throughout the body. Mind is everywhere.

And so you can't necessarily prove or disprove this, but it is an understanding. And so this might explain how telepathy works and how intuition works and how one can sense something happening because mind is everywhere. You are traveling through the consciousness element. And the way I like to think about it is like those Russian dolls that are contained, smaller ones contained in each other. So it's like that. It's like the earth element is contained within the water element. The water element is contained in the air element. The air element is contained in the fire element. The fire element is contained in the space element. In the consciousness element, but they're also interacting with one another.

So we have consciousness as arising dependent upon the sense-based and the sense-based object, and we have something known as consciousness element, which to simplify is essentially just mind. And whether that means your mind, or another person's mind, or just minds everywhere, that's all consciousness element. aggregate. And then we go into something known as Anidasanam Vinnanam. Anidasanam Vinnanam. Anidasanam, it usually is translated as without reflection, without a second, or without surface. Anidasanam. And Vinnanam is consciousness.

So there is Digha Nikaya, I think 11, Kevaddha Sutta, where you have this householder going from place to place asking about where do earth, air, water, fire end or cease. And there the Buddha says that's not the question to ask and he changes the question. And then he goes into verse and he talks about where name and form cease.

Long and short, all dualities, so-called dualities cease. And in that experience, there's something known as anidasanam vinnanam. Consciousness without surface is how it's translated. Without surface. Which means it's like a mirror that has no reflection. So that's why I call it non-reflective awareness. This awareness, this consciousness, is non-manifestative. It doesn't create more beyond it. You can say it is conditioned by Nibbana itself. When the mind first arises from making contact with Nibbana, it is free and clear of any kind of objects.

And therefore it's signless, objectless. Directionality to the awareness that arises. It doesn't go in a certain direction. It doesn't have a certain intention. And therefore it is undirected. And there is no ownership of me, mine, or myself present in that awareness. And therefore it is empty. So this experience is very much short-lived after having touched Nibbana. Because, well, I would say short-lived, relatively speaking, because then the mind kind of gets caught up in whatever happens after that. And then you have the mind consciousness, you have the I consciousness, the air consciousness, all coming up. And because of the attention that goes outward.

Anidasanam Vinnanam. You could write a whole book on this subject. Possibly. The four great elements are the cause and condition for the manifestation of the form aggregate. Makes sense. You need solidity, you need liquidity, you need heat, you need air or gas, and it forms into something. Basically molecules. Atoms and molecules forming into solid things or liquid things, or gaseous things, or heat and plasma from the sun and other kinds of electromagnetic activity.

Contact. Because feeling and perception are conjoined. In order for you to have perception, you need the feeling to label what the experience is. So both of these arise, conjoined, dependent upon contact. What do you think is the cause and condition for the manifestation of the formations aggregate? Contact. Contact again. Because in dependent origination, ignorance, condition, formations, and so on.

But in order for the formations to rise, in order for the formations to be activated, in order for the formations to be triggered, there needs to be contact with the outside world. Contact. What do you think is the cause and condition for the manifestation of the consciousness aggregate? No. Any other guesses? Mentality, materiality. Is the cause and condition for the manifestation of the consciousness aggregate. The manifestation of the consciousness aggregate. In order for consciousness to be present, it needs an instrument.

In this case, mentality and materiality. And then he asks, Venerable Sir, how does identity view come to be? This is sakkaya ditthi. This is one of the first three fetters. How does that come to be? the noble ones and is unskilled and undisciplined in their dhamma, who has no regard for true men and is unskilled and undisciplined in their dhamma. Such a person regards form as self, or self as possessed of form, or form as in self, or self as in form.

Or he regards feeling as self, self as possessed of feeling, feeling as in self, or self as in feeling. He regards perception as self, or self as possessed of perception, perception as in self, or self as in perception. He regards formations as self, or self as possessed of formations, or formations as in self, or self as in formations, or consciousness as self, or self as possessed of consciousness, or consciousness as in self, or self as in consciousness. These are the 20 different kinds of personality view that may arise. How do we have that? So what do we mean by the aggregates as self? We take this form, feeling, perception, any kind of choice or intention or formations, any kind of awareness as self, that this is me.

We may mistake that me as self, that particular aggregate. How do we take self as possessed of any of these? We say, this is mine. This body is mine. This experience or feeling is mine. This perception is mine. This choice or intention is mine. And this awareness is mine. How do we take the aggregates as in-self? idea in the mind that there is a self, an over-self, in which these aggregates are present. Or in this case, in the fourth case, that the self, there is some kind of atman that is present within the body, within the experience, within the perception, or within awareness. These are the ways in which the mind can identify with the aggregates.

But Venerable Sir, how does identity view not come to be? or self as in the aggregates. Basically, one has let go of taking any of these aggregates personally. They don't regard them as belonging to a self or as self or in relation to a sense of self. So when you have that deep experience of seeing the links of dependent origination and having that cessation of perception and feeling, there is a gap in your stream of experience, such that when you come back you start to see the building blocks of experience of the mind and you start to intuit and realize that actually it's an impersonal process that's happening. When you have that deep experience, then identity view

ceases, at least on an intellectual level. There's always the underlying tendencies, there's always the sort of conceit that will be there, which still identifies on a deeper level. But you no longer will hold on to a view of a personal, independent, permanent self made up of a series of causes and conditions. And therefore, what you realize is anything that is conditioned and dependent upon causes and conditions, when those causes and conditions are gone, then so too is that particular experience or thing or whatever it might be.

Which means you are seeing impermanence. Anicca, anicca, or anitya. Anicca is usually translated as impermanence, but a better way of looking at it is unstable. There's a lack of stability in it staying in one particular form. And because it is unstable, just like those shopping carts at Walmart, hard, there's always that one wheel, you experience dukkha, suffering.

And if we were to understand Atman as Satchit Ananda, which means independently self-existing, the basis of existence and the basis of all happiness, that it is the nature of happiness, that that is what self is. That is the concept of self in ancient India. Then when you start to look at any of the aggregates, any modes of experience, the sixth sense bases and so on and so forth, and you put it up to that particular ideal, you realize that none of that stands up to that ideal.

All of it is conditioned. Being conditioned and dependent on conditions, it is bound to be impermanent or unstable. Being unstable, even if it's happiness, it will change. Therefore, it is still dukkha. Therefore, it is not self. It is not me. It is not mine. It is not myself. When I was in India some time ago, just before I took a sabbatical, maybe around that time.

And I was with my former yogi teacher who had taken me to the Himalayas. And we were traveling down in South India and we were invited to this celebrity's house and the people there were very eager to meet with us. They had a very beautiful sort of terrace with Buddha statues all over. And you could tell these people really wanted to know more about meditation and the dharma and so on.

And they only had a very peripheral understanding of it. So we were sitting in their movie theater, and I mean actually a movie theater, with a big screen and everything, and we were looking at some of the movies and stuff like that. And then afterwards, they asked, so what is it you teach? What is it that you actually provide in terms of your teaching?

And I could have gone into talking about the six R's, I could have gone talking about TWIM. But what I talked about was, there are two kinds of happiness in this experience. There is conditional happiness and unconditional happiness. And I teach how to leave conditional happiness so you have unconditional happiness. And they understood that. So conditional happiness, what is that? That is happiness dependent upon circumstance, dependent upon externalities, internally or externally.

But unconditional happiness is happiness just for the sake of happiness. There's no need for it to come up. There's nothing that brings it up. It is just the happiness born of or from Nibbana. And so, here what we're saying is, nothing in this conditioned existence can stand up to that kind of unconditioned happiness, because it is impermanent, because it changes, and therefore is liable to cause suffering.

If we truly see this with regards to the five aggregates, then we let go completely of any kind of identity view. So then he asks, what venerable sir is the gratification? What is the danger? What is the escape in the case of the form aggregate, in the case of the feeling aggregate, in the case of perception, in the case of formations, in the case of consciousness?

The pleasure and joy, bhikkhu, that arise in dependence upon the form aggregate. This is the gratification in the case of form. Form is impermanent, suffering and subject to change. This is the danger in the case of form. This is the escape in the case of material form. Likewise, the pleasure and joy that arise dependent upon feeling, on perception, on formations, on consciousness. These are the gratification.

But these are impermanent, suffering and subject to change. And that is the danger in the case of these aggregates. So in other words, we just talked about this. Conditional happiness and unconditional happiness. Dependent happiness and independent happiness. The happiness that we talk about, that is Nibbana, is not dependent on any kind of condition. Even Sariputta was talking about this. He said, there is happiness even in no feeling.

Because the mind is not dependent upon any experience. But the gratification that the mind usually experiences is the pleasure and joy born from any of these five aggregates. And so the mind seeks out more of that. But the danger is these things change, so that pleasure and joy are unstable. And to escape that instability, one lets go of identifying with any of these aggregates. Bhikkhu, any kind of form, whether in the past or present, internal or external, gross or subtle, inferior or superior, far or near, one sees all form as it actually is with proper wisdom thus.

This is not mine, this I am not, this is not myself. Any kind of feeling, perception, formations, consciousness whatsoever, whether in the past or present, internal or external, gross or subtle, inferior or superior, far or near, one sees all these aggregates as they actually are with proper wisdom. Thus, this is not mine, this I am not, this is not myself.

It is when one knows and sees thus that in regard to this body with its consciousness and all external sense, there is no eye-making, mind-making or underlying tendency to conceit. So, yes, you could, on a surface level, look at all experience, and the body, and the perceptions, everything that's arising, as this is not me, this is not mine, this is not myself.

But you go deeper than that, and you trace where the I arises. You trace where the mine arises. You trace where the myself arises. In other words, you try to find the first layer that arises in relation to the I, me, or mine. And when you try to look for it, it disappears. When the mind reflexively looks back into itself and tries to find the me, mine, or myself, it relaxes.

And in that space, there is no I-making, my-making, and no underlying tendency to conceit. So, now this is interesting. So in the mind of a certain bhikkhu, this thought arose. So it seems, form is not self, feeling is not self, perception is not self. Formations are not self. Consciousness is not self. Here's a question that arises in this particular bhikkhu's mind. What self then will actions done by the not self affect?

Yeah, yeah. So he says form is not self, feeling is not self, perception, all of these are not self. In other words, if all of these things are not self, then what is that self that is affected by the actions that are produced by form, feeling, perception, intention, and consciousness? Is there a self that is affected by those actions? address the bhikkhus thus. It is possible, bhikkhus, that some misguided man, misguided man, that's a very tame phrase for the original Pali, which means you stupid idiot. Yes, Moghapurisa. It's an elegant way of saying you're an idiot. Moghapurisa. Some misguided man here, obtuse and ignorant, with his mind dominated by craving, might think that he can outstrip the teacher's dispensation thus with such a question.

So it seems. Form is not self. The aggregates are not self. What self then will actions done by the not self affect? Now, bhikkhus, you have been trained by me through interrogation on various occasions in regards to various things. And so now the interrogation begins. I would urge all of you to answer. Bhikkhus, what do you think? Is form permanent or impermanent?

It is all an impersonal process. Karma, when we have the precepts in the morning, there is that statement, Karma is my heir. I am an heir to my karma. Karma is my relative. But we're not saying in the sense of this is me, this is mine, this is myself. We're just saying all of these aggregates are subject to action and reaction. But they're all dependent and interdependent with causes and conditions. Self that is affected by any of the actions with regards to these five aggregates. So when we say woe unto me, why is this happening to me? We're taking that independent personal self as the concept of this is happening to me. But if we were to see with proper wisdom, thus, that all of it is an impersonal process, yes, we will feel the tinge of pain.

Yes, we will feel the experience of, oh, this sucks. But our mind will have wisdom and say it is an impersonal process and it has the ability to let go of it, to abandon it from that wisdom, through that wisdom. Done yet this is very important, seeing thus that this is not me, this is not mine, this is not myself, a well-taught noble disciple becomes disenchanted with form, disenchanted with feeling, disenchanted with perception, disenchanted with formations, disenchanted with consciousness. By the way, the aggregates themselves are also karma. The aggregates themselves are also karma. Form is karma, feeling, perception, formation, consciousness, all of that is karma.

It's vipaka, old karma, to be experienced. That's the inheritance that we have. But when we see it as an impersonal process, we become disenchanted. We say, okay, I've had enough of this. Being disenchanted, he becomes dispassionate, no longer affected by the aggregates or their actions. And through this passion, the mind is liberated. When it is liberated, there comes the knowledge it is liberated. He understands birth is destroyed. The holy life has been lived. What had to be done has been done. There is no more coming to any state of being.

This is what the Blessed One said. The bhikkhus were satisfied and delighted in the Blessed One's words. Now, while this discourse was being spoken, through not clinging, the minds of 60 bhikkhus, it's always 60 for some reason, were liberated from the taints. All right, let's share some of it. May suffering once be suffering free, and the fear-struck fearless be. May the grieving shed all grief and may all beings find relief. May all beings share this merit that we have thus acquired for the acquisition of all kinds of happiness. May beings inhabiting space and earth, devas and nagas of mighty power share this merit of ours. May they long protect the Buddha's dispensation. Sadhu, sadhu, sadhu. you