Lightly edited transcript Filler words and caption errors removed by machine; the meaning is unchanged.
Delson reads AN3.76 and refers to AN3.77 on bhava (becoming), following the Buddha's answer that existence in each realm arises when karma ripens, with consciousness as the seed and craving as the moisture. He then treats bhava practically as habitual tendencies and reactive choices, and explains how mindfulness and the 6R's can interrupt them. The talk ends with a question-and-answer session on right intention, the five aggregates, cessation, and sense restraint.
Key points
- In AN3.76 the Buddha says existence in the sensual, form and formless realms is discerned only where karma ripens, with consciousness as the seed and craving as the moisture.
- Delson reads the realms partly psychologically: greed, jealousy and anger correspond to lower states, while generosity, kindness and equanimity move the mind toward deva-like states.
- In everyday practice bhava is the habitual reaction that arises before we notice it, and mindfulness with the 6R's (recognize, release, relax, return) lets us catch the reactive intention and change the pattern.
- Right intention is described as three parts: renunciation, non-ill will and non-cruelty, which are the appropriate volition and aspiration.
- Contemplating the five aggregates is presented as a path through perceptions of impermanence, suffering and non-self to equanimity, disenchantment and cessation, and nibbana is described as the cessation of bhava (fuel for future existence), not annihilation.
Suttas in this talk
Each opens the sutta on SuttaCentral.
Themes
Karma · Dependent origination · The aggregates and not-self · The 6R's
Where this talk sits on the path
This talk belongs to a thread that runs along the whole path. It follows the thread of Dependent origination study, Sutta study series.
Transcript
Introduction to Bhava and the Sutta
Everybody knows you can get Bhikkhu Bodhi's translations on suttas.com. Yeah, okay, so here we are. So I thought today we will do bhava or becoming, and these two suttas, 3.76 and 3.77, are the ones I primarily like to use because it really gets into some really detailed things regarding bhava. So this is Anguttara Nikaya 3.76, Pathama Bhava Sutta, which means the first sutta on bhava in this nikaya. Then the Venerable Ananda approached the Blessed One, paid homage to him, sat down to one side, and said to him: Bhante, it is said, existence, existence. In what way, Bhante, is there existence? If, Ananda, there were no karma ripening in the sensory realm, what do we mean by sensory realm? That's everything from the lowest hell realm all the way to the sixth sensual heaven.
So that includes the human realm. Would sense-sphere existence be discerned? No, Bhante. So what the Buddha is saying is, if there was no karma being acted out, or if there was no karma coming to fruition, then bhava and karma are actually quite interlinked. When you talk about karma, it's two things. Karma in the active sense is the actions that we take based on the intentions we have. This is why the Buddha says intention is karma. But there's the second part of karma, which is vipaka, v-p-a-k-a, vipaka. Vipaka means the effect or the fruition of karma that has already been acted out. So that ripening is what we're talking about when we say karma ripening, the vipaka, the fruition of our actions, the effects of our actions. If those did not take place, can such an existence be discerned?
And Ananda here is saying no. So he says, the Buddha, thus Ananda, for beings hindered by ignorance and fettered by craving, karma is the field, consciousness the seed, and craving the moisture for their consciousness to be established in an inferior realm. In this way there is the production of renewed existence in the future. We're going to visit this because he says this two more times, but I just want to finish this sutta and the other one, and I'm going to get into it because it's very important to see the words that he's using.
Here, again, he asks: if Ananda, there were no karma ripening in the form realm, what do we mean by the form realm? That's the brahmalokas. So when you get into the first jhana consistently, you get into the first brahmaloka. When you pass on, you enter into the first brahmaloka, provided you haven't yet entered the stream. I'm going to get into that a little bit, because this is something I've been contemplating for a while. The form realms are any of the four brahmas that are affiliated with or linked with the jhanas, the first four jhanas. So he says, if, Ananda, there were no karma ripening in the form realm, would form-sphere existence be discerned?
No, Bhante. Thus, Ananda, for beings hindered by ignorance and fettered by craving, karma is the field, consciousness the seed, and craving the moisture for their consciousness to be established in a middling realm. In this way, there is the production of renewed existence in the future. And then he goes on to the third. If, Ananda, there were no karma ripening in the formless realm, would formless sphere existence be discerned? What do we mean by formless realm? This corresponds to the ayatanas, that is, the four arupajhanas that we usually talk about. So that is infinite space, infinite consciousness, nothingness, and neither perception nor non-perception. These four constitute the formless realms. So, yes, if, Ananda, there were no karma ripening, meaning no action being taken, no intention being taken, no process of karma unfolding, would formless sphere existence be discerned?
No, Bhante. Thus, Ananda, for beings hindered by ignorance and fettered by craving, karma is the field, consciousness the seed, and craving the moisture for their consciousness to be established in a superior realm. In this way, there is the production of renewed existence in the future. It is in this way, Ananda, that there is existence. So I just want to go through the second one with that. It's pretty much the same, except for one thing.
He says all of the same stuff here. He asks the same questions, but here he says: Thus, Ananda, for beings hindered by ignorance and fettered by craving, karma is the field, consciousness is the seed, and craving the moisture for their volition and aspiration to be established in an inferior realm. So the difference here is one is consciousness and the other is volition and aspiration. What do we mean by volition and aspiration? We're talking about volition and intention. So becoming, when we talk about becoming, what does it mean to become something? Every time we have this craving for existence, it is essentially this idea or concept in the mind where we want to do something.
Becoming, Craving and Cessation of Existence
We want to be something. We want to become something. Somebody says, I want to be wealthy by the age of 40. I want to have this much money by the time I'm 40 years old. I want to be married around this time. And I want to do this. And I want to have kids by then. And I want to do this. So all of these are the concepts that arise as becoming. And becoming, or bhava, corresponds to certain kinds of existence. When Sariputta talked about nibbana, he called it bhava nirodha, the cessation of existence. That doesn't mean annihilationism. That doesn't mean we're getting into a space of non-existence, or that when we are aiming for nibbana we are aiming for annihilation. What he's saying is that when one enters into nibbana, there is no existence present there, but there is no non-existence present there either. There is no being as such. What do we mean by being? Being, b-e-i-n-g, here we're talking about satta, s-a-t-t-a, in Pali. Satta means somebody who has one or more of the aggregates and is identified with those aggregates.
So that could be anybody in the hell realm, all the way to the human realm, all the way to the deva realms, all the way to the form realms, and even the formless realms, because consciousness is still present. Perception and feeling, to an extent, are still present. You may have heard in retreats or in other talks, Bhante or myself also use the term habitual tendencies for bhava. So what do we mean by habitual tendencies?
When we are met with some kind of an experience or an interaction with someone, our mind almost automatically deviates towards a collection of choices that the mind just pre-selects as a reaction to that experience or interaction. For example, somebody says a certain word or uses a certain tone. And because in the past we have certain associations with that term, or certain associations with the tone of that voice, what is that association process? That is clinging. And how does that clinging arise? It arises because we have craving. We say, I don't like that. I don't like how that person is speaking to me. I don't like that tone of voice. I don't like that particular term that that person is using.
Psychological Aspects of Bhava
So we create these associations, and then this habitual reaction or habitual tendency arises, where as soon as we hear that particular tone or that particular word, our mind reacts to it. And before we can even realize that, we are now in the thick of arguing or confronting, or being belligerent, or making them belligerent against us, and so on. So habitual reactions and habitual tendencies are also bhava, and they correspond to the choices that we've made in our past. This is why the Buddha is talking about karma ripening in a particular realm. Then there's also a psychological aspect to bhava, which is that even though we are in this human realm, there are beings in the human realm who for all intents and purposes look human and for the majority of time seem to behave in a human way, but their mindset and their psychology is greedy, is jealous, is angry. These can correspond to lower realms. Somebody is very jealous, and somebody is very greedy, and somebody uses manipulation to get what they want. They are hungry for things. They are hungry. So what does that mean? They're like hungry ghosts.
The Forbes list of billionaires, I think the majority of them are probably hungry ghosts, because they're always competing to get to that list and continue to maintain or become number one. And if they're motivated by that, they will do anything to keep that position or maintain that. At least this is how we may think of it, or this is one example that we can use, where people become very attached to a position or attached to something that they want. And if they're using manipulative tactics, if they're doing things that are rooted in greed and hatred, then you're starting to get into a lower realm.
Somebody who is generous, somebody who is loving and kind, somebody who is patient, somebody who has equanimity, they're starting to get into a higher territory in their mind, which means they're starting to become more deva-like. What does it generally mean to be human? When we're talking about human psychology, the notion of being human is essentially at this level: we are starting to have a higher level of intellect. We're able to discern between what is harmful and what is beneficial, not only to oneself but towards others. That moral code, that understanding of ethics and morality, is really what places us in the human realm.
But how we decide to traverse through that moral code depends upon our intentions, which is what our karma is. So as we start to become more loving and kind, as we start to become more compassionate, we're starting to get more deva-like. In the deva realms, as we understand it, as we have been told, and as we read in the suttas, there is very little strife. There's very little jealousy. There's very little competition. And if somebody is very competitive, that's the asura realm. There are the jealous gods, the titans. But beyond that, there are those who are basically just experiencing the fruits of their generosity. Being generous is very important here. Then, as you become more meditative, and this is the beauty of the human realm and beyond, generally the human realm is where we have the capacity to meditate. What do we mean by meditate? The capacity to take one thought and hold it and stay with it.
We're not talking about one point of concentration. We're talking about the ability to keep the mind's attention on that one particular object or just be completely free and be uncaught. Don't get caught up in the myriad of thoughts that arise. And this process of meditation is beset by mindfulness and right effort. This mindfulness that we talked about, humans have the capacity to be mindful, and that requires an ability to be discerning between what is wholesome and unwholesome. I was reading, and I don't know how true or accurate this is, or how scientific this is, but I was reading it on social media, so take it with a grain of salt. They were talking about how they were training chimpanzees to communicate with humans using sign language, and they would see that the chimpanzees would continue to communicate when humans would communicate with them in sign language.
But at no point during the communication was there any questioning going on from the chimpanzee side. What do we mean by that? It means that they were not discerning what is good or beneficial. They were just communicating, I want a banana, I want this, I want that. There was no real curiosity from their side. There was no real ability to explore and be questioning of things. And that's the beauty of the human mind, is the ability to endeavor into these different pursuits. So the human realm or the human existence is very, very precious. And we've been told about that in the suttas as well. And the Buddha gives a certain simile. He says it's like every hundred years there's a tortoise that pops its head up in the ocean, in the sea, and you have a noose and you're trying to get the turtle.
And every time you do that, it's very rare, once in every hundred years, let's say. That's the rarity and the preciousness of the human existence. It's unfortunate that people generally don't realize that. But those who do, I think, should take as much advantage as they can to utilize it in a way that benefits them spiritually, which is to meditate and to be more discerning and to develop and cultivate wisdom through the understanding of the Four Noble Truths, through the understanding and the application of the Eightfold Path. So I want to go a little bit further into what do we mean by this when the Buddha says, for beings hindered by ignorance and fettered by craving.
So hindered by ignorance, what does that mean? When we see the links of dependent origination, what we see is it starts out with ignorance. And what is ignorance? for practical purposes ignorance is a lack of mindfulness specifically a lack of mindfulness of the four noble truths in every moment so when there is a lack of mindfulness which is the which mindfulness is the gatekeeper of craving keeps craving away from us keeps unwholesome states away from us then the karmic formations that arise are influenced by that ignorance are being pushed forward by the tints of sensual desire of craving for existence and of ignorance itself and then when that happens there is a greater propensity for the mind to react a certain way rooted in that craving which means the habitual tendencies in bhava automatically arise.
But when we have mindfulness, we're able to keep craving at bay. And when you keep craving at bay, there is no clinging, there is no becoming, and there is no action that is rooted in the propagation and recycling of that same kind of karma. And fettered by craving, this is when we talk about our formations. What do we mean by formations? Our mental formations, our verbal formations, and our physical formations. Fettered, fettered means enchained, right? When we talk about the ten fetters, they are the chains of existence, they are what keeps us here in samsara. So when our formations are rooted in greed, hatred, and delusion, abbreviated as craving, then for those beings, for that kind of person who still has a lack of mindfulness and has the propensity towards craving, karma is the field.
Karma as the Field
What do we mean by the field? So the Buddha is giving a very interesting analogy, saying there's the field, there's the seed, and there's the moisture, which is the nutrition for the seed to grow. Karma is the field. What is karma here? We're talking about karma in terms of vipaka. This earthly existence that we have, everything that we have in this moment, is the field. The clothes that we wear, the kind of bodies that we possess, the homes that we live in, the cities that we live in, the countries that we live in, and the environment that we keep, the kind of political environment that we're in, the climate we're in, all of that is the field.
And more personal to that, the six sense bases are the field. So the eyes, the ears, the nose, the tongue, and the body and the mind, is also karma. It's old karma. It's vipaka. There's a couple of suttas where the Buddha talks about old karma and new karma. And he asks the monks, he says, monks, what is the old karma? He says, old karma is anything that can be experienced through one or more of the six sense bases. That includes one or more of the six sense bases. In other words, when we look at dependent origination, everything from ignorance all the way up to feeling, the experience that we're having, so that includes the six sense bases, is the old karma, and that's the field that we're working in. And the consciousness, what is that consciousness?
The seed. So our consciousness, our present awareness of how things are right here, right now, is the seed. If the consciousness is stained by one or more of the 16 upakilesas, that is things like greed, hatred, jealousy, anger, competitiveness, arrogance, pride, conceit, stubbornness, all of these different things that come and go in the mind. If that consciousness, that seed, is present, now I'm talking about our present day existence. You know, before I continue, there is the understanding of consciousness as the seed that is established in the mind and body when they are generated through the meeting of the sperm and the ovum, right? That's on a more macro level. What I'm talking about here, on a day-to-day level, consciousness is the seed.
What is your mind bringing to the table when all this karma is present? If our consciousness is established in a volition or aspiration, that means we have a mindset or an intention inclined towards a certain kind of existence, a certain kind of goal, a certain kind of desire. I want to go to this particular city, or I want to attain this particular jhana, or I want to be better at this particular game or sport. All of those are volition and aspirations. Those things give rise to craving. So the seed here, consciousness, if it is
entrenched, if it is engendered by these different kinds of kilesas, these defilements, then naturally the moisture, which is the craving, will have that consciousness further established in that particular existence, or in that particular habitual tendency, or in that particular realm, whatever you want to call it. What is that craving when you say the moisture? That craving is the moisture. That's the nutriment. That's what establishes that consciousness to keep rolling forward in the same kinds of habitual behavioral patterns, which then result in the further propagation of the same kind of karma. So this is the deepest understanding I can give you right now. When we talk about existence and bhava at the practical level, we're talking about habitual tendencies and our behavioral reactions. If we take care of those using the 6R's, the right effort and mindfulness, then we start to change our behavioral patterns. We start to decondition them from the unwholesome and then bring them towards the wholesome, and that requires mindfulness. As soon as you recognize there is a thought or an intention to react to this same situation that you've been in
before, which will only further propagate that situation in a future time, you can release that thought, relax, come back to neutrality, come back to a more wholesome state, allow intuition to arise, trust in that intuition, and then respond from that. Then you start to break that habitual pattern. Then you start to break the cycle. It will take time, because the mind has been entrenched in that consciousness, as the seed has been entrenched in the karma, which is the field of whatever you are present in right now.
Old and New Karma
But as you continue to do this, the karma changes. So the old karma is all the vipaka, the fruition leading up to that experience, including the sense bases, the contact, and the feeling and perception. The new karma, that is to say an active kind of karma, is the kind of karma that is productive of more samsara. And those ingredients are craving, clinging, and becoming.
So as soon as you see an experience, you have an experience, and you notice a reactivity in the mind, you can let that go and take a pause and let wisdom arise, which destroys any ability for new karma to rise. So bit by bit the old karma starts to dissipate, so you're no longer in the same kind of behavioral patterns, you're no longer in the same kind of situations, you're no longer interacting with the same kind of people that cause you suffering. Moreover, internally, in your mind, which is the most important, you're no longer habituated towards thinking a certain way or conceptualizing or proliferating in such a way that causes you to react in those ways that propagate your outside world, so to speak.
So this is the understanding of bhava and how to let go of it. Once you have let go of it, and once you have this understanding, once you apply this understanding, you will see for yourself that your intuition becomes stronger. I was talking yesterday with really close friends of mine about this, about trusting intuition, and it's so important to trust your intuition. You will know intuition arises because there's a feeling like, this, I have a bad feeling about this, or this feels really good, this feels more expensive. As you start to tune into that, then you're functioning in a way that is non-karmic. But the moment you ignore your intuition and you become more reactive, then karma takes hold. The whole goal of this practice is to come to a point where we don't have to come back into samsara.
and the ingredients that bring us back to samsara is craving, is karma, is bhava. So as we start to reverse this process and get more into our intuition, the less reactive we become, and that really is true freedom that we start to experience. And we're starting to get closer to that full awakening. So I'm going to stop right here, and we can open it up for questions. I have some time for questions. So let's see here. Oh, I had a question in the chat, Bill, here. So with that sutta, what is the proper role of volition and aspiration?" That would be right intention. So when we talk about sammasankappa, which means right intention or right choice, there are only three right intentions, or three components to that right intention.
That is, one is nekkhamma, which literally is renunciation, but it basically means to let go of the desire for a certain kind of outcome, to let go of any kinds of identification with the process. And the other two are non-ill will and non-cruelty. So in this case, these three components of right intention are the appropriate volition and aspiration.
Learning From the Past
Thank you. You're welcome. Quillie, good morning. So my question is about using the past to actually investigate and make these shifts. I remember one time on a long retreat where I was aware, it's just a simple little thing, oh, there went Mary. I hadn't noticed it in the moment, so I'm noticing it in the past. And a lot of times some form of greed will come up, and I will think, oh, I should not have done that, but it's now tomorrow. So I'm curious how to use what's already happened in a wise way." Yeah, I think one way is to have a compassionate way of inquiring into what happened there. So being very non-judgmental about, okay, that's what I thought in that moment, or that's maybe what I did in that moment, or whatever it is, how could I have otherwise said or thought or acted in a way that was not harmful, or beneficial to the person and myself, or at least, at the very least, not harmful to oneself or harmful to the other? And I think as we start to do this kind of
um, you know, I'm stealing from um Gabor Mate. He talks about compassionate inquiry, compassionately inquiring into, you know, what could I have done better? We start to recondition already by reliving that in a way. It's like, okay, I'm rewiring my neural network by saying, next time when I go into that process, could I do it differently? And so there can be that trap of getting caught up in the remorse and in the regret, of oh, I shouldn't have done that. But that's okay. Beyond that, if we can start to apply and say, could I have done this differently, and how could I have done this differently, that helps us, so that when a similar kind of situation arises, hopefully that patterning will come up and be like, hey, I thought about this before, or I recognize the situation now, and now I can behave differently.
Does it, though? Because that's an intellectual exercise. It doesn't really have anything to do with mindfulness and presence. When I'm trying to learn from the intellect, it's more than an intellectual exercise, what I'm talking about. I'm talking about actually making it a meditation and being able to go through it and be like, reliving it, and being like, okay, if I had done it differently. Because anything that we do with our minds can be a meditation, or it can be a process of losing our mindfulness. So we're actually using mindfulness in the way of the actual word sati, which is to remember. We're actually recollecting an experience and then reliving it in a way that's not just like, oh, I'll do better next time, but really honing in on what that looks like.
Five Aggregates and Cessation
Okay. Thanks. Okay, I think, Virgil, were you next? Yes. Hi, Delson. Hi. Well, I have a question regarding the five aggregates meditation. How does that help with the bhava? Because from what I understand, we're trying to remove with the bhava, we're trying to stop our reactions, right, to these volitions. And if you can explain how the aggregate meditation works. And also, the second question would be, in the cessation, in the Sanna Vedayita Nirodha, I presume that also has complete cessation of bhava in it, right? Yeah, okay. So, you know, when I introduced these five aggregate meditations back in 2023, I think it was when we did the Dependent Origination Symposium, the understanding behind it was that we are actually starting to experience a deeper level of anatta, which means we are cultivating wisdom and understanding of emptiness.
And it is one of the gates through which we can experience nibbana. So the whole arrangement of that practice of going systematically through each of the five aggregates is to go through what I was discussing before with some friends, the seven levels of perception, or the seven kinds of perception. Because you're starting to find for yourself, see and experience for yourself, the arising and passing away of one of these aggregates, which means you are into the perception of impermanence. And then you start to see how tiresome it gets every time you repeat the same kinds of processes, every time the body goes through the same kind of process, the experiences, the feeling, the perception, intention, and so on, and the consciousness.
There you're starting to see the perception of suffering, the perception of dukkha. And then you detach. Your mind starts to become more detached from it and realizes, actually, this has been beset. This has been unfurled due to past and previous causes and conditions. And there's no controller here, as such, in that present moment. It's just a result of past choices. And now you're starting to look at the emptiness of self. Now you're seeing the perception of anatta. As you start to see the perception of anatta, what happens is, generally for people who do the practice of the five aggregates, they get into that space of nothingness. Or more specifically, they get into the perception of equanimity.
So the perception of impermanence, into the perception of dukkha, into the perception of anatta, into the perception of equanimity. Now you go even deeper and your mind disengages. So when you're at that stage of equanimity, as a result of the five-aggregate meditation, you don't do anything there. You just remain, and you keep disengaging, which is that process of disenchantment. And your mind remains completely dispassioned. So now you have the perception of disenchantment and the perception of dispassion, and finally cessation, the perception of cessation. So when you're doing this, you're actually installing a much deeper seed of wisdom in the mind, so that when you come out of the practice and you're looking around in your interactions, you don't take things so seriously.
And when you don't take things so seriously and so personally, there's less to fight for. There's less to defend. There's less to engage with from some kind of an agenda, or something that I want, or something that I want in a certain way. Which means craving starts to dissipate, which means the habitual reactions that come up, you just see as an impersonal process.
And you see through the game of that, but because you have that deeper wisdom, you're like, oh, this is just impermanent, why should I care so much about this? Because you get so much less caught up in it, your habitual reactions continue to change as you respond from that wisdom. When we talk about the cessation of perception and feeling, the bhava and every other link in the dependent origination sequence is also ceased, because if you have ceased perception and feeling, then you have ceased craving, and therefore any other link that comes up after that. Okay, so maybe I- okay, perfect answer. So one final micro question, bhava, then it's at the level of craving, right? Is the desire that projects the mind outwards and towards any kind of experience, that's the becoming?" Yes, and I think another way to look at it is the craving for a certain kind of outcome. "Okay, okay, thank you. Okay. Harshini, hi, Mr Full, thank you so much, Delson, for these wonderful talks, and thank you, David, for making it available to us.
Bhava as Repeat Offending
It's invaluable. I listen to them all the time. Mine, well, it's not so much a question as maybe it's how I look at it. And if you can just say I am actually seeing it correctly, that would be helpful. So, bhava. I see it as trying not to be a repeat offender. That's how I see it. So you have experiences, and you just want to make sure that mindfulness is doing its job and you're not getting caught up in whatever else you should not be caught up in. And it's really useful listening to your answers to the other questions as well, because I do find that things that had lust before, they've lost the lust. The intensity has come down.
And someone might say, well, what's the point of living, because you're not excited about it anymore? Well, different things excite me now. The Dhamma excites me. Sometimes a sitting, I'll get up from a sitting feeling so rejuvenated and happy and content, so I don't feel that as a loss. And it's interesting, this whole concept of it's just a process, and that's a big, big realization that keeps coming and going. It's just a process. Who's there? It's just a process. Yeah. So if that's the right way of looking at it, then, if you can confirm that, that would be good." Yes. I think what you're saying here, which is that bhava is being a repeat offender without realizing you are being a repeat offender.
But then once you have the mindfulness, you're like, okay, I can change my choices in every given moment. And then, secondly, yes, I mean, you talk about the things that excite you now. Actually, I would say when you get deeper into meditation, you are so much more in tune with your senses that you enjoy things more than the people who are unmindful and are looking for things and grasping at externalities, because foods are that much tastier.
Smells are that much more vivid and sights are that much sharper uh in in terms of our ability to enjoy but we can enjoy without getting caught up in it and so the desire for that excitement means that that person is not satisfied and content enough they haven't fully experienced that experience whereas a meditator um is and is content in whatever is happening in every given moment thank you this is the last question uh shalina hello delson david thank you so much for these talks um i don't know that i've formed a question clearly in my mind but um perhaps i could just say what what's going on and you can see if a question formed so it's about bhava niroda and nirvana being not existence and not non-existence
but no being and how I understand that is me or myself and how um perhaps perhaps the question is around these two different ways of looking at the kind of three life spread the rebirth type thing and also the um when there is this there is this and when there's not this there's not that the sort of it's right it's now this this particular moment the whole of petition part is like when there's no craving the whole thing falls apart so i wonder if perhaps perhaps that is the question you know how how do you um could you say something about these two different ways of looking at so when we talk about the five aggregates i i you really hit the nail on the hand there when you said that it's basically non-identification with one or more or all of the five aggregates.
Because earlier I said SATA, S-A-T-A, is being in the sense of somebody who identifies with one or more of the five aggregates, which means there's still something to defend. There's still something to hold on to. There's still something to identify with. So this whole process of disengaging with that identification doesn't mean that we have aversion towards the five aggregates or we have an indifference to what is arising. It's a conscious, active engagement with what's going on with the tools of wisdom. And when we say wisdom, we're saying seeing the impersonal process. And at the very deepest levels of this discernment comes the realization and the experience of dependent origination. It's not an intellectual exercise. It's not a process of remembering, oh, these are the many different kinds of clinging.
These are the many different kinds of craving. These are the many different kinds of bhava. It's about this is how I'm causing my own suffering, and therefore if I let go of this, I experience nirodha. I experience the dukkha nirodha, which in essence is nibbana, the realization of no more fuel for further existence. So we're not going into non-existence territory. We're going into how can we let go and make sure that the fuel for any future existences, which is bhava, is depleted and does not replenish.
Sense Restraint and Mindfulness
And does that link? If I can ask a follow-up question, does that link with sense restraint in the gradual training, as, you know, desire and craving coming from engagement of the six senses, and reducing that engagement with desire, thereby reduces bala? Basically, yeah, sense restraint, you know, samvara, that's the word in Pali. Sense restraint is essentially having that gatekeeper of mindfulness in terms of what is experienced right here, right now, through the eyes, through the ears, through the nose, through the tongue. And restraining isn't like, you know, holding on to something or anything like that. It means, am I being mindful of where my sense bases are going? When we see restraint, it's like, how does one actually, you know, there's a sutta, Majjhima Nikaya 19, the two kinds of thoughts, where the Buddha gives these two kinds of analogies. He says in the first case, it's like a cowherd, a boy tending to the cows, and when there are crops
in season and he is not tending to the cows, they will go here and there. But if he's watchful and he's mindful and he makes sure that the cows don't go into the fields, that's the restraint that he has of those cows. In the second analogy he says once you're there, once you have established that mindfulness, then there's nothing for you to do because you know the cows are there. You can relax, you can rest in that experience of awareness, and the cows are restrained on their own. So just being aware where my sense base is taking the mind is the level of restraint that we want. So it's kind of being aware of your intentions, isn't it? Yes, exactly, exactly. Thank you. All right, this is the end. All right, well, we can share some merit here, which, let's see, it's probably not this one, but I'll start it up here. Here we go. May suffering ones be suffering free and the fear struck fearless be. May the grieving shed all grief and may all beings find relief. May all beings share this merit that we have thus acquired for the acquisition of all kinds of happiness. May beings inhabiting space and earth, devas and nagas of mighty power, share this merit of ours. May they long protect the Buddha's dispensation. Thank you.