Talk 11 -Nirodha and Nibbana- Dependent Origination Conf. with Delson Armstrong-4K

"What is the verbal formation? What is the mental formation?" "In-breathing and out-breathing, householder, are the bodily formation." Yeah, that's part of it, but also other kinds of physical actions when you move around, that is facilitated through the bodily formations. Thought and examination are the verbal formation. Thinking and examining thought, the application and sustaining of thought, perception and feeling are the mental formation. So the mental formation allows you to feel and perceive, no matter what it is that feeling is, whether it's born from eye contact, ear contact, nose contact, body contact, tongue contact or mind contact. Ultimately, all contact that gives rise to an experience happens at the level of mind.

Mind is chief, mind is the forerunner of all states. Whatever you are experiencing right now, for the purpose of understanding and the purpose of analysis, you can see that it's all delineated by the different sense-based experiences, but ultimately everything that is happening is happening in the mind. Whatever it is you're experiencing is happening in the mind. The world that you are experiencing is a projection or interpretation that your mind creates. What you're experiencing here in terms of the physicality is also mental. What you are seeing, what you are hearing, what you are smelling, tasting, touching, all of that is mental. It starts in the mind. Or I should say, through the process of bringing in sensory signals, the mind takes that and creates an image or creates a sound.

And it perceives that image, perceives that sound. Likewise with the other sense-based experiences. Verbal formations are formations related to expression, related to thinking and examining. So when you put your attention on something, that is facilitated through the process of verbal formations. You think about loving kindness, you bring up a feeling of loving kindness. That is the thinking and examining thought, that is the vitaka and vichara that's there in the first jhana. That is facilitated through verbal formations. "Good, Venerable Sir," Chitta the householder said. Then he asked him a further question: "But, Venerable Sir, why are in-breathing and out-breathing the bodily formation? Why are thought and examination the verbal formation?"

Why are perception and feeling the mental formation? Householder, in-breathing and out-breathing are bodily. These things are dependent upon the body. That is why in breathing and out breathing are the bodily formation first one thinks and examines then afterwards one breaks into speech that is why thought and examination are the verbal formation you can't speak unless you think but nowadays people don't think before they speak so i don't know what's going on there but But there's always a process of analysis and reflection before whatever it is that you're going to say. There's a formulation of words that come into being in the mind before it's expressed as speech. Perception and feeling are mental. Just as I said, these things are dependent upon the mind.

Nirodha samapatti, but the principle works the same. That is to say, the idea is the mind does not think that I am going to attain it, or I am attaining it, or I have attained it. First of all, the last two cannot arise in cessation; it's just complete cessation. But the mind doesn't say I am going to attain it. It has an intention beforehand that it will let go of all conditions and enter cessation. So there was a prior development, that is to say there was a prior intention, but it lets go of that intention as well. In other words, it doesn't let that intention fuel the rest of the process. That intention is understood and then let go of, and it allows the causes and conditions to ripen in such a way that they let go or they cease, and then there is the attainment of cessation of perception, feeling and consciousness. The same way, what is going on when you experience the signless? You don't have the intention, I am going to attain the signless. You're continuously letting go. As soon as the words 'I am' arise, conceit is present, and when conceit is present

it takes the mind out of that state. So, letting go of everything, letting go completely. Letting go of even letting go. See if you can wrap your heads around that one. Yes, that's the hardest. Letting go of letting go, but when you do it, everything ceases. Saying, "Good, Venerable Sir," he then asked him a further question: "Venerable Sir, when a bhikkhu is attaining the cessation of perception, feeling and consciousness, which of these things ceases first in him: the bodily formation, the verbal formation, or the mental formation?" "Householder, when a bhikkhu is attaining the cessation of perception, feeling and consciousness, first the verbal formation ceases, after that the bodily formation ceases, and after that the mental formation ceases." Why?

Because when you are in the first jhana, in order for you to get into the first jhana, you have an intention of letting go of the hindrances, letting go completely, and then the mind experiences relief, and as a result there is joy. But you needed the initial intention, which is the thinking and examining thought. As soon as you enter the second jhana, that thinking and examining thought are let go, they cease, and so verbal formations in that regard cease. Then when you get to the fourth jhana, now here's what I want to tell you: it doesn't mean you stop breathing in the fourth jhana. It means that the contact with the body starts to diminish, starts to become more subtle.

So if you feel an ant crawling on your hand, if your attention goes there, you will feel it and the bodily formation arises again. You'll let that go, come back into the fourth jhana, and you're just there in mind. So that is where the bodily formations cease. And then finally, at the eighth jhana, there are still feeling and perception, but you stop perceiving more and more. You stop seeing things and you start to just let them go, and you start to look, or are able to be aware of, formations that arise in the form of proto-thoughts just before they bubble up to the surface. So there is still mental feeling and perception going on there. And when you let go of the finest, subtlest formations, the subtlest of all being the 'I am' conceit, and so at the signless that conceit is just poking its head out just a little bit. But as you just let the mind continue just being there, not doing anything, not giving any fuel of your attention to it, the mind lets go completely and mental formations cease.

When that happens, you have the cessation of perception, feeling and consciousness. When you are in the signless, and that form, those formations are present as soon as you look at something and you try to do something. In the trying to do something you are bringing up conceit; you're strengthening that formation again. So how do you deal with it? Don't do anything in the seeing. There is just the seeing. Seeing allows the mind to just let it go; it sees through it. When I gave you the analogy of the signless as a flashlight pointing to the sky, the latter part of that analogy is that as that light continues

eventually the batteries run out. The batteries there are the formations and the attention to the formations. When that attention, that fuel, is no longer being provided for those formations, the batteries run out and the light of consciousness ceases. "Householder, when a bhikkhu is attaining, oh, I think we said this already, yeah, when he is attaining the cessation of perception, feeling and consciousness, first verbal formation ceases, after that the bodily formation, and after that the mental formation." Saying, "Good, Venerable Sir," Chitta then asked him a further question: "Venerable Sir, what is the difference between one who is dead and gone and a bhikkhu who has attained the cessation of perception, feeling and consciousness?" "Householder, in the case of one who is dead and gone, the bodily formation has ceased and subsided.

The verbal formation has ceased and subsided. The mental formation has ceased and subsided. His vitality, that is the jivitindriya, is extinguished. His physical heat has been dissipated and his faculties are fully broken up. There's no more connection of nerve endings firing, any kind of experience. In the case of a bhikkhu who has attained the cessation of perception, feeling and consciousness, the bodily formation has ceased and subsided. The verbal formation has ceased and subsided. The mental formation has ceased and subsided. But his vitality is not extinguished. His physical heat has not been dissipated, and his faculties are serene. Another translation of this is his faculties are clear. So what does it mean when he says his vitality is not extinguished and his physical heat has not been dissipated?

So when you are in cessation of perception, feeling, and consciousness, what happens is, first of all, all of the formations have ceased. But there is the ayu-sankharas, the life formations, connected to which are the vitality and heat. Vitality here is the life faculty. It is the energy that still is present in the nervous system. And the heat is the metabolism, the metabolic activity in the body. Even though it has slowed down, it hasn't ceased completely, and so the faculties are serene and clear. What does that mean? It means that this process of cessation of perception, feeling and consciousness, it's basically that there is no more traffic jam in any of the sense bases. Right now, when you're experiencing things, your mind is being bombarded by all kinds of sensory impingement, all kinds of sensory data packets.

When you're in cessation, all of that is gone. It's like when you're in the pandemic and all the streets are clear, no cars are running. The same is with the I faculty and the other sense-based faculties, completely clear. Which means that when you come out of cessation, your mind is replenished, so the greens are greener, the blues are bluer, because it's like you're seeing everything for the first time. There's no impingement of, I've seen this before. It's just, wow, everything is so bright and clear, and I feel amazing. Because you've given absolute rest. Now, that was one of the things that the initial publication came out from Dr. Ruben Laconin and his team, that is it that the mind goes unconscious?

And what they found is cessation, perception, feeling, and consciousness is different from going unconscious. There is a difference. So we're not relaxing ourselves into unconsciousness. That's not what's going on here. Because if we did that, then we would end up in the realm of the unconscious beings. That's not what's going on. Something else is happening here. And I'll explain what that is when we go further. Saying, good venerable sir, he then asked him a further question. Venerable sir, how does the emergence from the cessation of perception, feeling, and consciousness come about? Householder, when a bhikkhu is emerging from the attainment of the cessation of perception, feeling, and consciousness, it does not occur to him, I will emerge from the attainment of the cessation of perception, feeling, and consciousness, or I am emerging from the attainment of the cessation of perception, feeling, and consciousness, or I have emerged from the attainment of the cessation of perception, feeling, and consciousness, but rather his mind has been previously developed in such a way that it leads him to such a state.

In other words, there's intention there. The mind will remain in cessation for two minutes or five minutes or five days or whatever it is, up to seven days. So that is happening because there are still some formations present, but they have ceased, but they arise at the time that was conditioned. Which is very interesting, and which is what really interests the scientists as well, which is how is it possible that even though everything else is supposedly inactive, the mind is able to know exactly at what point to come out of cessation? And the idea, according to the sutta, is that the intention that was prior to the experience of cessation, which included that I will, I will enter into cessation, stay there for that long and emerge after a period of time, that all is there somewhere deep in the mind.

That's why, first, there is this experience of seeing something. And then afterwards, there's like, oh, wow, what was that? That's the verbal formation that arises and says, I just saw something there. What was that? The oh, wow. That was what Bhante was going to call this meditation, the oh, wow meditation. Now, here is a very interesting question. Saying, good venerable sir, he then asked him a further question. Venerable sir, when a bhikkhu has emerged from the attainment of the cessation of perception, feeling, and consciousness, how many kinds of contact touch him? Householder, when a bhikkhu has emerged from the attainment of the cessation of perception, feeling, and consciousness, three kinds of contact touch him. Emptiness contact, signless contact, undirected contact.

This is contact with the Nibbana element. Empty, signless, and undirected. So when the mind touches Nibbana, it does so. Here's what happens. So going through the process of jhana, you're deconstructing your experiences. As you're continuing to let go at deeper and deeper levels, the levels of perception also start to cease. They start to subside, and eventually you go into cessation of perception, feeling and consciousness. You have ceased all conditions there. And in ceasing all conditions, you come to that which is the unconditioned, Nibbana. But your mind is not available to be able to know that it touched Nibbana. Only when it turns back on, when you reboot the system, is there a dip into Nibbana.

And after you have that dip, there is the feeling of joy and relief that arises. So that contact is unconditioned contact. That's why it's empty of self. It's signless because Nibbana itself is not an object. Nibbana is... It is. And that's why it is also undirected. Because there's no desires there. There's no pointing in a direction there. The mind just boots up into Nibbana, and boom, the joy and relief come. That joy and relief that arises is feeling. It's a feeling of joy and relief that arises, conditioned by the unconditioned contact.

Now, the first time that happens, the mind says, oh, wow, what was that? And relishes in that joy, relishes in that relief. Is overwhelmed by it, and asks, how long will this last? That's the craving. The craving has kicked up again. Later on, that joy becomes less prevalent. It starts to taper off and becomes more like equanimity.

And so what happens is, in that moment when you experience Nibbana, when the mind touches the Nibbana element, in that moment the mind is completely unconditioned. The mind is void of all conditions. It is free of craving, free of ignorance, free of conceit, and the formations that arise dependent upon that contact are also free of any ignorance, free of any craving, free of any conceit. Which means for that moment the mind is that of the arahant. But then when the feeling of joy comes up, when the feeling of relief comes up, when the feeling of equanimity comes up, the mind clings to it. And so then the next arising of formations are once again rooted in the greed, hatred and delusion, but it's let go of something. It's let go of the fetters, the first three fetters. And so how is this facilitated again? The continual process of using the 6R's, the continual process of recognizing when craving arises, when aversion arises, when identification arises. The more you're able to remain mindful and let go in your daily life, the better it translates in the meditation, and vice

versa. And so it's a matter of continuing the practice outside of the formal sitting meditation. Life is meditation, right? Because you have to continue to do the 6R's every time you notice tightness and tension. And so as you keep doing that, what happens is, in that moment the next time it happens, you've greatly attenuated craving and aversion. So the next time it happens there is some joy that arises. Maybe not as much relief, but there is joy, a little bit of relief, and you feel at peace. You feel clear in the mind. There's greater clarity. You start to understand how this process works even better. It starts to come up, but because the mind says, how do I replicate that again? How do I get more of that? There's still a little bit of craving.

So then the next arising of formations again are rooted in that craving, rooted in that conceit. Then as you continue to recognize, because now at that point your mind will become very clear, and your mind will be able to recognize craving before it starts to become an action, or when the craving does arise and you have a slip in mindfulness, or aversion arises and you have a slip in mindfulness and it turns into an action, you're immediately able to recover from it. It doesn't bother you as much. So you keep doing that, and eventually you start to notice that craving is starting to arise less and less and less. Aversion is starting to arise less and less and less. So the next time you do that and you experience cessation and you come out of it, there is deep equanimity that comes up. There's a tranquility and equanimity, and so the mind doesn't crave for that experience. It's just seeing it as it is. But guess what, the mind says, oh, I've achieved it. I've done it.

So there's still conceit there. So the next arising of formations that come up from there are now still rooted in delusion. There's no more greed, no more hatred. Now there is delusion and conceit to deal with. And then the final time when it happens, the mind has a deep experience, a very deep experience, where it has a full understanding of dependent origination in all dimensions. So for those who have seen dependent origination, they see it in different ways: squiggles, lines, circles, this, that, or the other. And these are all mental models or mental representations, mental reflections of how the mind takes them to be. But when the final experience happens, there's a different level of dimensionality that the mind is able to see dependent origination.

And so when the contact with the Nibbana element arises, there is no identification with it, because it understands even that arose due to causes and conditions. Even that is to be just seen for what it actually is and not to be identified with. And so in that moment, the conceit is destroyed. And dependent upon the conceit, the restlessness, the craving for jhana, the craving for rupa states, they collapsed like a house of cards, which was dependent upon the conceit. And having now fully understood dukkha in all its elements, having fully abandoned all conditions for suffering to arise, and experienced Nibbana fully, and perfected the cultivation of the path, the four noble truths are just installed in the mind.

They become the automated process in the mind. No more ignorance. Ignorance is destroyed. And with that comes the knowledge that birth is destroyed. What had to be done has been done. The holy life has been lived. There is no more coming to being. Because now the mind understands which links are present, because it's so clear to it when it sees the links of dependent origination, that which links are present. Ignorance is gone, and there's only formations, consciousness, nama-rupa, sixth sense basis, contact, feeling and perception tied to it. There is no more craving, clinging, becoming, no more birth, no more renewal of existence. And so it understands that only these are present, the five aggregates, as they are, without craving, without clinging.

They are just that. And so there's no identification with that either. And so this is how cessation arises. It's kind of like an oxymoron, right? Cessation arises. Saying, "Good, venerable sir." He then asked him a further question. "Venerable sir, when a bhikkhu has emerged from the attainment of the cessation of perception, feeling and consciousness, towards what does his mind slant, slope and incline?"

"Householder, when a bhikkhu has emerged from the attainment of the cessation of perception, feeling and consciousness, his mind slants, slopes and inclines towards seclusion." When you experience cessation, what do you want to do? You don't want to do anything. You just want to rest in that. The mind is extremely clear, extremely quiet, and it just wants to rest in it. And the word seclusion also comes from the Pali viveka. Viveka also means to discern, to know, to understand, which means the mind inclines towards what? Experiencing the links of dependent origination, remaining unattached, just as a silent observation process of how the links of dependent origination arise, without getting caught up in it. In the seeing, there's only the seeing.

In the experiencing, there's only the experience. There's no attachment of I there, until later on, when the joy and relief arise. "Good, Venerable Sir," Chitta the householder said, "and having delighted and rejoiced in the Venerable Kamabu's statement, he asked me a further question. Venerable Sir, how many things are helpful for the attainment of the cessation of perception, feeling, and consciousness?" "Indeed, Householder, you are asking Glass what should have been asked first. But still, I will answer you. For the attainment of the cessation of perception, feeling, and consciousness, two things are helpful."

Serenity, Samatha, and insight, Vipassana. Tranquil wisdom, insight. TWIM. So that's the process of Nirodha and Nibbana that follows it. Now we're going to get a little deeper into how Nibbana is understood as being signless, as being empty, and as being undirected. And then also how Nibbana actually relates to the taintless mind, to the mind destroyed and free of all taints. So this is from Samyutta Nikaya 41.7, Godata Sutta, The Three Gates of Liberation. On one occasion, the Venerable Godata was dwelling at Machi Kasanda in the wild mango grove. Then the Chitta, the householder, approached the Venerable Godata, paid homage to him and sat down to one side. Then the Venerable Godata said to Chitta, as he was sitting to one side, "Householder, ..."

"Householder, the measureless liberation of mind, the liberation of mind by nothingness, the liberation of mind by emptiness, and the signless liberation of mind. Are these things different in meaning and also different in phrasing? Or are they one in meaning and different only in phrasing?" "There is a method, Venerable Sir, by which these things are different in meaning and also different in phrasing. And there is a method by which they are one in meaning and different only in phrasing. And what, Venerable Sir, is the method by which these things are different in meaning and also different in phrasing? Listen carefully."

"Here a bhikkhu dwells pervading one quarter with a mind imbued with loving kindness. Likewise the second quarter, the third quarter, and the fourth quarter. Thus above, below, across, and everywhere. And to all as to himself, he dwells pervading the entire world with a mind imbued with loving kindness or with compassion or altruistic joy or equanimity. Vast, exalted, measureless, without hostility, without ill will." Does that sound familiar to you guys? Six directions. "This is called the immeasurable or measureless liberation of mind." Immeasurable, why? Because there is no measure of how far that loving kindness goes, how far that compassion goes. You can take it to infinite space, just keep it going. Go beyond this particular system, go beyond this particular galaxy and to other galaxies and beyond the edges of other galaxies.

It just can keep going and going and going. And so when we say liberation of mind here, we're not saying, in this case, we're not saying liberation of mind in terms of the liberation from the taints. We're saying the liberation of the mind in the sense that it is liberated from any kind of physical and external impingements, let's say, or distractions. The mind is liberated. The jhanas themselves are also called temporary liberations because they're liberated from the hindrances. They're liberated from physical sense-based experiences. They are untouched by them. They are liberated in the sense that they are free. First of all, when you have loving kindness, you're free of ill will. When you have compassion, you are liberated from cruelty.

When you have joy, altruistic joy, you are liberated from jealousy. When you have equanimity, you are liberated from restlessness and agitation. "And what, Venerable Sir, is the liberation of mind by nothingness? By completely transcending the base of infinite consciousness, aware that there is nothing, a bhikkhu enters and dwells in the base of nothingness. This is called the liberation of mind by nothingness." In what way? Another way of looking at it is, when we say the jhanas are levels of cessation, what ceases or what is liberated in the first jhana? In the first jhana, you are liberated from the hindrances. In the second jhana, you are liberated from thinking and examining thought.

In the third jhana, you are liberated from coarse joy, piti. In the fourth jhana, you are liberated from sukha, and you have equanimity. In the fifth, or the infinite space, you are liberated from the body, and you are just in the mind. in infinite consciousness you are liberated from the perception of infinite space in nothingness you are liberated from the perception of infinite consciousness in neither perception or non-perception you're liberated from the perception of nothing and in the signless you're liberated from all perceptions and you're just aware and in the cessation of perception feeling and consciousness you are liberated from all conditions, completely. And what, Venerable Sir, is liberation of mind by emptiness? Here a bhikkhu gone to the forest or to the foot of a tree or to an empty hut reflects thus, empty is this of self or what belongs to self.

"This is called the liberation of mind by emptiness." So when we were talking about doing this practice where you reflect and see each of the five aggregates, you're looking into how they arise and pass away, how they are impermanent, which leads you to understanding that they're not worth holding on to and that they are not self. And so when you experience that, you experience emptiness, voidness, the signless state. So the signless state is synonymous with emptiness there as well. The mind is empty of any conditions except for the knowledge of it. That bare consciousness that's still present, that is the signless. And then that leads you to the signless liberation of mind. "And what, Venerable Sir, is the signless liberation of mind? Here, with non-attention to all signs, a bhikkhu enters and dwells in the signless collectedness of mind. This is called the signless liberation of mind."

"Here the mind becomes uninterested, disenchanted, dispassionate, not interested in any sign, not even the mind itself. And so it is liberated from all signs, liberated from all objects. The word sign here comes from the Pali nimitta, which is actually meant to mean object. So, this is free of all objects, liberated from all objects. This, Venerable Sir, is the method by which these things are different in meaning and also different in phrasing. And what, Venerable Sir, is the method by which these things are one in meaning and different only in phrasing? Now listen carefully. He says, 'Lust, Venerable Sir, is a maker of measurement. Hatred is a maker of measurement."

"Delusion is a maker of measurement." What does that mean? Maker of measurement. Remember what mana means, which is the word for conceit. It means to measure. And how do you measure something? When you identify with any experience, it's because you're measuring it up to something. Measuring it up to your idea of what it should be or what it should not be. This is motivated either by greed, hatred or delusion. When the roots are taking, are in the formations, that will give rise to a consciousness that is defiled by one or more of the defilements, the upakilesas, and that creates in the mind the way it will perceive something. And so it will measure it accordingly.

"Lust, Venerable Sir, is a something. Hatred is a something. Delusion is a something." So what does he mean here? Greed, hatred and delusion are things in the sense that they are roots that take present in the mind, and when there is greed, when there is hatred, when there is delusion, the mind holds on to something. There's always a sense of a subject and an object: I am doing this, I am meditating, "I am so and so." That doesn't mean when someone becomes an arahant they stop using language in that way. It's just that in terms of the mind there is no more relationship of subject and object. Nothing is taken as an object. That's why the mind of the arahant is also said to be signless.

It doesn't direct towards any object and hold on to it. This is when we say, in the seeing, there is only the seen. In the hearing, there's only the heard. In the sensing, there's only the sensed. In the cognizing, there's only the cognized. In the experience, there's only the experience. In the experiencing, there's only the experience. Everything just flows. Nothing sticks to the mind as an object. That's why for the arahant, the experiences, the reactions or the responses to experiences are spontaneous. It's rooted in right speech. It's rooted in right action. And so whatever action is taken in the form of mental, verbal, or physical action will be rooted in the Eightfold Path. It won't create something.

When it starts to look at something, it's looking at it from: how does this benefit me? Or how can I push this away? Or it identifies with it. In the absolute sense of reality, when you experience something, or beyond the process of the experiencer, there really is no object to be taken. Everything is just data. Everything is just a process that's arising. But the mind that's rooted in conceit, the mind that's rooted in ignorance, wants to make something out of it.

Wants to say, how does this affect me? Me, me, me, me, me, me. All the time. But for one who is liberated completely, all of that goes away. All of that is subsided. All of that has ceased. So there's no trying to make up how does this relate to a projection of me, a projection of a sense of self. And so this is why he says empty, and it is immeasurable. And there is nothing there that it holds on to. That is the Supreme Voidness, the Supreme Nothingness, the Supreme Signlessness, the Supreme, Supreme. This, venerable sir, is the method by which these things are one in meaning and different only in phrasing. It is a gain for you, householder.

It is well gained by you, householder, in that you have the eye of wisdom that ranges over the deep word of the Buddha. And so now we are going to go deep into understanding Nibbana as best as we can. So the word Nibbana, what does it mean, right? Ni here means no or not or un. It's negatory. And Bana or Vana can mean fire and it can mean a forest. When we say no fire, we're saying it is void or no more fire of greed, hatred, and delusion present. When we say forest, we're saying that the mind has let go of the fuel for the arising of any greed, hatred, or delusion.

Because how do you make fire? You need wood. And where is wood from? The forest. No more of that. And it also means to quench or to blow out, like a candle. What is quenched? The mind is quenched. It's no longer thirsty, no longer craving. Quenched of all thirst. Quenched of all tanha. And blown out, what does that mean? All sense of self is just blown out, gone, disappeared. And so, Nibbana can be understood as both a noun and a verb. In the sense that there is the Nibbana dhatu, that the mind touches, and it is the mind free of all craving. It is a mind of an arahant. But it's also a process. So it's a thing and it's a process.

It's like quantum mechanics. It's both a wave and it's a particle. Depends on how you use it. So the mind, when it quenches craving, that is Nibbana. And experiences Nibbana. That's why when you relax, you experience the relief from that tightness and tension. You experience in that moment Nibbana, free of all craving in that moment. So I'm going to read, well, it's just one sutta, but it's two suttas, 10.6, 10.7. Anguttara Nikaya 10.6 and 10.7. And this is talking about the mind of the arahant as Nibbana. Then the Venerable Ananda approached the Blessed One, paid homage to him, sat down to one side and said to him,

Bante, could a bhikkhu obtain such a state of mind that he would not be percipient of earth in relation to earth, of water in relation to water, of fire in relation to fire, of air in relation to air, of the base of infinite space in relation to the base of infinite space, of the base of infinite consciousness in relation to the base of infinite consciousness, of the base of nothingness in relation to the base of nothingness, of the base of neither perception nor non-perception in relation to the base of neither perception nor non-perception, of this world in relation to this world, of the other world in relation to the other world, but he would still be percipient?

That's a long question. Is there a state of concentration, a state of meditation, where the mind does not have any perception of earth, of any of the four elements, of any of the Arupa states, of any perception of this world or the jhanas or of any other world? Is it possible that there is no perception of that, but there is still some perception going on? He could, Ananda. But how, Bhante, could he obtain such a state of concentration? Here, Ananda, a bhikkhu is percipient thus: This is peaceful. This is sublime. That is the stilling of all formations, the relinquishing of all acquisitions, the destruction of craving, dispassion, cessation, Nibbana. So this is a state in which the arahant, so naturally the arahant's mind is free of all craving, free of all hatred, free of all delusion.

By that definition the mind is experiencing Nibbana all the time. But there comes a point where that mind can go even deeper by letting go of all perception, letting go of the perception of all five aggregates, letting go of form, of feeling, of perception, of intention, of consciousness. Yet be aware there is awareness, but there is no self-awareness. That is the experience that the mind of the arahant goes into, and in Pali this has been called arahata phala samapatti or arahata phala samadhi, where the mind can direct towards Nibbana. That's go of all conditions and touches the Nibbana dhatu, the Nibbana element.

So then the second sutta talks about this. The Venerable Ananda approached the Venerable Sariputta and exchanged greetings with him. When they had concluded their greetings and cordial talk, he sat down to one side and said to the Venerable Sariputta, Friend Sariputta, could a bhikkhu obtain such a state of concentration that again, he would not be percipient of earth, water, fire, air, infinite space, infinite consciousness, nothingness, neither perception or non-perception of this world or the other world, but he would still be percipient? He could, friend, Ananda. But how, friend Sariputta, could he obtain such a state of concentration? On one occasion, friend Ananda, I was dwelling right here in Savathi, in the blind men's grove. There I attained such a state of concentration that I was not percipient of earth, water, fire, air, space, consciousness, nothingness, neither perception or non-perception of this world or the other world, but I was still percipient of what was the Venerable Sariputta percipient on that occasion.

One perception arose and another perception ceased in me. The cessation of existence is Nibbana. Bhava nirodho. The cessation of existence is Nibbana. In other words, the mind goes into Nibbana and then reflects and realizes it was a Nibbana. Just as when a fire of twigs is burning, one flame arises and another flame ceases. So one perception arose and another perception ceased in me. So the mind enters Nibbana, experiences Nibbana, and is only aware that it experienced Nibbana after coming out of it. And then goes back into Nibbana, comes back out, comes back in, comes back out. The reason is because whenever there is that perception of looking back, you're no longer in Nibbana. But you know that you experience Nibbana because of the qualities of mind that we experience as a result of Nibbana.

This is that state, arahata phala samadhi. And then we will talk about the Nibbana dhatu. This is from the Itivuttaka 44 in the Khuddaka Nikaya. This was said by the Buddha, the Perfected One. That is what I heard. There are, bhikkhus, these two elements of Nibbana. What two? The element of Nibbana with some left over, and the element of Nibbana with nothing left over. Nibbana with remainder and Nibbana without remainder. Somebody asked me a question the other day. What does remainder mean? What does "with remainder" mean? So I told them it's when you divide one number with the other number and you're left over with something. That's the remainder. And what is the Nibbana dhatu with remainder?

It's when one is a perfected one, with defilements ended, who has completed the journey, done what had to be done, laid down the burden, achieved their own true goal, utterly ended the fetters of rebirth, and is rightly freed through awakening. These five sense faculties still remain. So long as their senses have not gone, they continue to experience the agreeable and the disagreeable, to feel pleasure and pain. The ending of greed, hatred and delusion in them is called the Nibbana element with remainder, the mind of the arahant. They experience everything, but there is no greed, hatred and delusion. That is Nibbana with remainder. And what is the Nibbana without remainder? It's when one is a perfected one, with defilements ended, who has completed the journey, done what had to be done, laid down the burden, achieved their own true goal, utterly ended the fetters of rebirth, and is rightly freed through awakening. For them everything that is felt, being no longer relished, will become cool right there. This is called the Nibbana element with nothing left over. These are the two Nibbana elements. So generally speaking, it's understood that Nibbana without remainder is parinibbana.

On the night of his parinibbana, the Buddha went through the first jhana all the way to the eighth jhana. He went through each of the jhanas, and then he went into cessation of perception, feeling, and consciousness. Then he came back down from the eighth jhana all the way to the first jhana, and then he went from the first jhana to the fourth jhana. Then he left the fourth jhana and inclined his mind towards the Nibbana dhatu, and from there the aggregates were extinguished. That is parinibbana. But that is a practice that arahants can do. They can go into the Nibbana element, the arahata phala samapatti. So it can happen while they're still alive, which is a special state of meditation that they go into.

Or later on in their final Nibbana, that is to say their final experience of arahata phala samapati, there everything is cooled for the final time. Nothing is felt, nothing is experienced, nothing is sensed, nothing is cognized, nothing is present. Everything is cooled right there and then, and that is parinibbana. And so the Udana says the Buddha spoke on this matter, and it is said: "These two Nibbana dhatus have been made clear by the seer, the unattached, the poised. One dhatu pertains to this present life, what is left over. When the conduit to rebirth has ended, what has nothing left over pertains to what follows this life, where all states of existence cease." This is referring to parinibbana, the final Nibbana.

"Those who have fully understood the unconditioned state, their minds freed, the conduit to rebirth ended, attained to the heart of the Dhamma, they delight in ending. The Poised Ones have given up all states of existence." And now this is from the Digha Nikaya 11. It's called the Kevaddha Sutta. Now this is an excerpt from the Kevaddha Sutta, because it's a very long sutta. As you would know, Digha Nikaya is a series of long discourses. So I'm just taking a small fragment, which is relevant to the topic here about Nibbana.

"So that monk, as swiftly as a strong man might flex or unflex his arm, vanished from the Brahma world and appeared in my presence, in the Buddha's presence. He prostrated himself before me, then sat down to one side and said, 'Lord, where do the great four elements, the earth element, the water element, the fire element and the air element, cease without remainder?' I replied, 'Monk, once upon a time seafaring merchants, when they set sail on the ocean, took in their ship a land-sighting bird. When they could not see the land themselves, they released this bird. The bird flew to the east, to the south, to the west, to the north. It flew to the zenith and to the intermediate points of the compass. If it saw land anywhere, it flew there, but if it saw no land, it returned to the ship. In the same way, monk, you have been as far as the Brahma world searching for an answer to your question, and not finding it. And now you come back to me.'

'But, monk, you should not ask your question in this way. Where do the four great elements, the earth element, the water element, the fire element, the air element, cease without remainder? Instead, this is how the question should be put. Where do earth, water, fire, and air find no footing? Where is it that nama-rupa, or the four great elements, are not dependent, find no footing? Where are long and short, small and great, fair and foul, all dualities?

Where are name and form wholly destroyed?' And the answer is, where consciousness is signless, boundless, all-luminous, that's where earth, water, fire and air find no footing. They're both long and short, small and great, fair and foul. Their name and form are wholly destroyed, and then with the cessation of even that consciousness, this is all destroyed.' Thus the Blessed One spoke, and the householder Kevaddha delighted and rejoiced at his word." So what is he talking about here? He's talking about anidassanam vinnanam. This is referring to the signless collectedness of mind. And what he's saying is, where those dualities, where those conditions are not present, their consciousness is signless. Their consciousness is boundless. It's non-reflective, non-manifestive. That consciousness just rests in itself, dependent upon formations that are pure, purified.

When you get into the signless element, when you get into the signless collectedness of mind, what you are getting to is basically a preview of how Nibbana is experienced as a state of meditation, as a state of concentration that is known as arahata phala samapati. This is a preview into arahatship, the signless collectedness of mind. And so I'm going to talk about the 32 words for Nibbana. Actually, there are 33, but one of them is Nibbana, so 32. So the first word is asankhata, which means without formations, unconditioned. And when we say without formations or unconditioned, we're saying no more formations that are rooted in greed, hatred, or delusion. That's one way of seeing it.

And the second is no formations present at all, meaning no conditions are present at all. Anata, this is not anata, which means not self. This is anata meaning uninclined, undirected. Right? When we say the undirected mind, that is the mind that doesn't take anything as an object, is not looking here or there. Anasava, without taints, without sensual desire, without desire for being, without ignorance. That is the mind of the arahant. Sacca, the reality, the truth, the absolute reality that you see, or you would see, is Nibbana. Para, beyond or the far shore. It's beyond all conditions, beyond just this simple thinking mind, beyond any conceptualizing. No concepts there. Nipuna, the subtle, very subtle, very hard to even hold on to.

You can't hold on to it. You just let go of all conditions, and there it is. Sudhudasa, hard to see, difficult to see. You can only see it after coming out of it. You can only know it was done after coming out of it. Ajajara, unaging. It's the ageless, because there is no birth there. Dhuva, the permanent, the Dhamma element is the only thing, so to say, that is permanent. It's available all the time. It's like a 7-Eleven. The undecaying, it doesn't change, it's changeless. Anidassana, non-reflective, non-manifestive, nippapancha, non-proliferation, non-conceptualization, no proliferation, no ingredients of craving, clinging, becoming present in it.

Santa, that is peaceful. Amata, deathless. Panita, the supreme, the subtle, the highest. Siva, grace or auspicious. Khema, sanctuary. It's a sanctuary. It's where the mind can go to all the time. Once you are free of all craving, all conceit, it's accessible any time to take refuge in. Tanhakkhaya, the destruction of craving. Acchariya, the marvelous. Abbhuta, transcendent, transcending all. All forms, all formations, transcending the aggregates. What was that word? Abbhuta. Anitika, the secure. It's the only place you can be completely secure. Anitika dhamma, the untroubled. No troubles there. Abhya bhajya, void of suffering, the cessation of suffering. Viraga, dispassion, no clinging

there. Suddhi, the pure, pure, purified of all conditions, no formations that are impure there, impure there. Mutti, freedom, liberation. Analia, free from all attachment. Deepa, the island, be an island unto yourselves. Be in Nibbana, be free of all craving. Lena, the cave or protection. That's why I go to the cave once in a while. Tana, not tana, tana, the shelter. Sarana, the refuge. When we say Buddham saranam gacchami, we take refuge. So it is the ultimate refuge.

Parayana, relief. Those are the 32 words for Nibbana. Thus ends the talk. Let's share some merit. May suffering ones be suffering free, and the fear-struck fearless be. May the grieving shed all grief, and may all beings find relief. May all beings share this merit that we have thus acquired for the acquisition of all kinds of happiness. May all beings inhabiting space and earth, devas and nagas, mighty power, share this merit of ours. May they long protect the Buddha's dispensation. Sadhu, Sadhu, Sadhu.