Day-7 QA - Online 10-day Retreat (Nov-3) with Delson Armstrong

Let's start. First question. You write in your beautiful booklet the process of contact and what happens thereafter is crucial. Does that mean that you can influence what happens next, so that there might be a cessation but you approached it or attended it in an incorrect manner, so that there was no attainment of nibbana? You cut in and out a little bit. Can you please say it again?

Yes. You write in your booklet about post-cessation that the process of contact and what happens after that is crucial. That seems to imply that one can influence what happens after that, so that there might be, maybe, is that right understanding? Yeah. So when that was written it came from the understanding that after cessation what happens is you have the arising of the links, you have the formations and so on arising, and then at the level of contact it happens so fast, it's making contact with the unconditioned element, it's making contact with the nibbana element. So there is a way to influence that by continually letting go, which means there's a non-involvement with the links of dependent origination as they arise, but you continually have that intention of letting go and not grasping, even at the level of contact. So you can have the ability to get into that nibbana element at the level of contact intentionally if you continue to let go, but usually the case is, at least up until the level of an anagami, it will happen automatically, and the contact with the nibbana element will happen automatically.

What happens after contact, from that understanding, is very crucial, meaning the contact with the nibbana element will create that relief that one feels, and that relief is from having broken the fetters, let's say. So in the case of a sotapanna it's breaking the three fetters; in the case of a sakadagami it's weakening two of the fetters; and in the case of an anagami it's breaking the last two fetters of the lower five fetters. So that relief, that experience of having let go completely and then having that nibbana experience, if there is an identification with that, that will start to create craving again. So it happens quite natural. In the case of a sotapanna, let's say, after you become a sotapanna, when that relief arises there is that natural immediate sense of, what was that, wow, you know, it was amazing, and immediately you have this craving for it in the sense of delighting in it, and then identifying with it. But then in the case of a sakadagami it becomes weaker, that relief, so there's not much craving in that relief, and it might start to weaken the fetter because of that less identification process.

At the level of the anagami, at the level of that feeling of relief, there is no craving in the sense of delighting in it. From a sense of craving it's just, okay, that was relief, you know, there was that relief. There's still identification with their meaning, there's that identification that I just had a nibbana experience, or I just had this experience. And then finally, with the arahat, because everything is seen as impersonal from the get-go, everything is just understood as complete non-involvement, until even a demonic experience at contact, when that relief happens, that also is seen as impersonal, impermanent, and not worth holding on to. So in that process, the fetter of conceit is completely weakened and then destroyed.

And the other fetters, which is the craving for existence, the craving for non-existence and restlessness, which are actually dependent upon the conceit, are also destroyed. And of course, ignorance. Once one has understood that craving and identification have completely been destroyed, that there is no more becoming, that the birth has been destroyed and so on. So this is the reason why the contact with the nibbana element is quite crucial.

So your question is, can it be influenced? Can it somehow happen, where if you can have the contact with the nibbana element after the cessation without having it been automatic? You can, to the extent that you continue to let go. You continue to, because the more you're able to let go and not grasp, the more you're able to let go and not grasp at it, the easier the mind inclines towards nibbana. You see, at the level after cessation, at that point the mind

naturally inclines towards nibbana, but insofar as continuing to incline there, it's a matter of letting go. It's a matter of not grasping onto anything. So, could I put it that if cessation happens without nirvana, that one grasps at the cessation experience? Yes, that's right. Yes, okay. Thank you. Yeah. I don't remember where I found this statement. Somewhere it mentioned that ignorance, the cause of ignorance, there are three different conditions mentioned. Yeah. One is, out of that one is also ignorance. Yeah, you're talking about the defilements, the taints, the asavas. Maybe. Yeah. In Bhikkhu Bodhi's translation I had seen. Yeah. So how to take it, is it like ignorance? How to take that?

What did you say? You said, is it? And then you froze for a couple seconds. Do we need to see that ignorance causes more ignorance? Or defilements cause ignorance? Yeah, it's interdependent. It's interesting. Whenever you have Sariputta talking about dependent origination in that regard, he always has this interdependency between mentality and materiality and consciousness, and he says they're sort of like this, you know, they just have an interdependency upon each other. One conditions the other, and likewise, or vice versa. So in the case of ignorance he says, what is the condition for ignorance, or what is the cause of ignorance? And he says it's the asavas, the taints or defilements. And then he asks, what is the condition for taints, what is the condition for the defilements or the asavas? And he says ignorance. So the way to understand it is that the ignorance in the asavas and the ignorance that is considered the conditioning aspect of formations are essentially one and the same, even the fetter of ignorance.

Meaning the ignorance of the four noble truths, the ignorance of understanding how to apply the four noble truths, and the ignorance of how the links of dependent origination arise, which is essentially rooted in the understanding of the four noble truths. So I was talking about this probably yesterday, before yesterday, a little bit, which is the three defilements, the three asavas. They are sensual craving, craving for being or non-being, and the ignorance itself. When it comes to sensual craving, when it comes to the taint of sensual craving, that is influencing ignorance and that is fettered into the formations, so that when the formations are activated and activate the consciousness, that consciousness naturally leans towards becoming, rooted in craving, so that somebody will take it personal. Likewise for being, the taint of being is when one identifies with the sensory experience and with the whole process, and then the accumulated tendencies in the form of bhava. So there is actually this sort of, and this is written a little bit later and you will see it, it's like a pendulum.

So one side of the pendulum is the taint of sensual craving, and the other side is the link of craving, taking it personal. And the more you do taking personal in every present moment, that's going to strengthen the projection. So the more you crave in the present moment, the more it's going to strengthen the asava of craving. The more you identify with conceit, the more it's going to influence and strengthen the asava of being. And so then the more you are identifying with it, taking things personal, not understanding and applying the four noble truths, the more you're influencing and strengthening ignorance. So the more you do that, you are fettering the formations, which will continue until you use mindfulness, until you use right intention, until you use right effort, to change that trajectory and start to come into choices that are in alignment with the four noble truths, that are in alignment with the eightfold path, that are in alignment with right view. The more you do this, then that's going to weaken the influence of the asavas and their chain in the formations.

So the more you're able to apply mindfulness, the more you're able to apply the eightfold path in every given choice, in every given present choice, the more you weaken those fetters from the projections from the asavas, and the more you do that, the more automatic your choices are going to be in alignment with the eightfold path. So you do this in the way of your daily living, how you are presented with choices in your interactions with people and situations, as well as when you're in the meditation. So when you are in the meditation, every time you're doing the 6R's process to let go of the karma which comes in the form of hindrances, which comes in the form of thoughts, you are actually creating the effective choice by being more rooted in non-craving, non-conceit,

and in right view. So the more you are able to 6R, come back to your object, you're applying right mindfulness, you're applying right intention, you're applying right effort. And because of that, you're also weakening the fetters, because the thoughts that arise, the hindrances that arise, are also karma. They are the effects of karma that you produce in a previous choice, which is to say that you made choices which were not in alignment with the eightfold path, but you made choices which were not in alignment with right action or right speech. That's why the hindrances are arising, and so these are the effects of the old karma. So when you start letting go of them, you're allowing your mind to let go and not produce any new karma, and you're also reconditioning the mind's ability to continue to be in alignment with the eightfold path, and you're reconditioning the formations that continue to be rooted in right view, and by doing that you're weakening those fettered formations.

Thank you. The analogy of Gwendolyn was so nice. I am wondering about how do you see character, human character? Is this also a consequence of many lifetimes to form a character, or because even after cessation or maybe even after nibbana, I know it's character changing, but still there is certain, probably character, human character, that is left. Yeah, there are certain habits and there are certain inclinations that are being built up through lifetimes or even in choices that one makes. There are certain

There are certain things about personality, in that being, even up to the level of arahant, for example, the body has been used to, in the way of the senses, certain flavors, or has been used to certain choices in terms of cuisine. That's one aspect of personality. They have their favorites in the way of how the body deals with certain things in relation to consumption of food and things like that. That's one aspect. The second aspect is how they grew up in a culture as well. Of course, with the arahant, they don't consider culture to be something that is part of their personality. It's just the ingrainment within that personality. They don't take it to be personal. They don't take it to be themselves. So in the context of, let's say, even in the time of the suttas, everything was in ancient India, everything was in ancient North India, so everything that everyone had an understanding of was through that cultural context. So there were certain things there that built up that kind of character, like the Buddha and many of his cousins.

Well, all of his cousins really were of the warrior class, so they had a certain kind of understanding of how to behave. They had a certain kind of understanding of how to interact. But having said all of that, it doesn't make up any more of a being. It doesn't make up any more of bhava. These are all of the accumulated tendencies that arose prior to full awakening. So there may be effects of certain understandings that were there that would just be neutral in the sense of they wouldn't have any wholesome effect or unwholesome effect. They're just ingrained within the personality. There can be characteristics, like somebody has a certain inclination towards a type of food, as I said, or towards a type of geography or weather or location. Despite all of that, when one is fully realized

even though that's still present, it's not personalized. It's not in the way of, I need that or I require that, because they just know that the body has become used to that. And so if it's there, it's all well and good. If it's not there, that's okay too. So the character of a person, so long as you understand that it's built up through various experiences, through various cultural traditions, and through various upbringings, through one's parents and elders and teachers and so on, all of that is well and good, even in the case of an arahant. But the difference is one takes those cultural contexts and takes all of that that has brought up that character to be personal.

Yeah, in the case of the suttas, you have different types of arahants. You have arahants who are quite stern, or can be very driven towards asceticism, and you have other arahants who are quite gentle and are prone to seclusion. And then you have arahants who are more like teachers, and they're prone to teaching and things like that. These are all built up because of past karma, because of the karmic inclinations that were built up in previous lifetimes and in previous choices in the present life. But those are helpful in the context of how they can better deliver, let's say, the Dhamma, or serve the Dhamma and serve people in being able to provide the Dhamma to them. Yeah, this is interesting. So it says two suttas talk about arahants. One ate enthusiastically; he had been an elephant. Another kept jumping and had been a monkey. So the Buddha explained

Thank you. You're welcome. Sometimes in meditation, from nowhere, lust arises. Can it be because somebody else is radiating lust towards me? Can you repeat the question, please? Because I only got to hear probably the tail end of the question. Somebody, from nowhere, lust arises in meditation. Can it be because somebody else is having lustful thoughts about me? The only thing you're able to control is how those thoughts are arising and how to deal with the thoughts. The idea that the mind can be effective

affected by another person's lust for another individual. I don't see that as accurate. I don't see that as in alignment with the Dhamma, insofar as being able to influence people through one's mind, through using telepathic powers or psychic powers. That also I don't see in alignment with the Dhamma, because it's more about communicating the Dhamma. It's more about being able to influence in a way that is wholesome. But the idea that something unwholesome, like lust, like somebody has lust for another person, and that can initiate lust in the other person, that can only be insofar as, if you're, let's say, reading the other person's mind. So if you can be aware that there's lust in that person, you are aware of that lust, but that lust is not in you. It's just the awareness of lust in that mind. So I personally, in my experience and in my understanding, don't see it as a way where somebody's lust for you can initiate lust in you, in yourself.

Unless you are reading that person's mind and aware of lust in that person. But in that awareness of the lust in that person, that doesn't ignite lust in you. Yeah, and you're open to that lust, yeah. That's a good point. Delson, I have another question. Actually, this one, in Chachakka Sutta, it says that forms are not I, not mine, not myself.

Yeah. And I read this sutta and I came across, thoughts are not mine, not myself. Yeah. As soon as I recollect it, I don't attach to those thoughts. Yeah. But how can I say that the thoughts are coming from outside? Our thoughts originated from previous experiences, like forms. Yeah, we can say that forms are outside. Most of us come from past experience, or they come from outside as well. How can we take this? So, thoughts are part of the mind, right? So the mind is part of the sixth sense basis. So thoughts should be considered to be one of the six senses, one of the six feelings, if you will. So that means that it has arisen due to dependent origination, and at the level of contact. So if you have contact with something, you might have a thought about it. That thought arises through the process of perception, where the contact activated a formation that could create a consciousness that then drives forward the idea of that thought.

And that's the perceiving aspect of the thought, that it recognizes, for example, that's what it is. Or if you're having thoughts about the past, that can also happen due to contact with one of the five physical senses, or due to reflection and thinking, which is again initiated by the process of formations. So even thoughts of the future are initiated from within, meaning through the process of formations. So all thoughts, whether they're thoughts of the present moment, the present condition, or past or future, are arisen through formations, and those formations are conditioned by the contact that arises. So if you're having a feeling, there's a contact which creates multi-sensory experiences. Which means, let's say, you smell a fragrance, right? And that reminds you of something that happened in your past. It's through the experience of that smell that then activates the formations that continues to create the perception that's rooted in the memory, and then that creates mental proliferation

in the way of reflecting on that smell. Then that thought leads to another thought, and that thought leads to another thought, and so on and so forth. So all of these thoughts can arise after contact. It's only after contact the thought would arise, and the contact can be through any of the five physical senses or through mental objects in the mind as well. Can I say that five senses and five senses contact can cause more thoughts to arise? It has been the experience of some people where there's maybe a lot of sounds in the background, and it starts to create different kinds of thoughts about it, and then that can start to create more thoughts and more thoughts and more thoughts. But that depends upon the person's awareness or their mindfulness. So as soon as they recognize that they're starting to sway away and get carried away with their thoughts, as soon as they see that mental proliferation is arising, then they can recognize it and let it go.

So it is possible that the multi-sensory experiences, that the different experiences of the five physical senses, can create multiple thoughts as well. Thanks. Thanks for the clarification. I have another question about different realms. We heard about them, and I was quite surprised to hear about the hell realm. I was wondering what this means. Could you explain? Well, the good thing about Buddhism is hell is also temporary, right? You don't have to burn in hell forever and ever and ever.

Right? But hell, the hell realms, there are different kinds of hell realms. There's the fiery hell realms, which are hot. There's the icy hell realms, which are quite cold. So there are different levels of heat. There are different levels of torture. There are different levels of cold. There are different levels, all kinds of different kinds of tortures, that happen depending upon the actions that one produces in a lifetime, depending upon one's intentions, depending upon one's thoughts and speech. So there are certain unwholesome activities, including having wrong view, that could lead to a lower realm, that could lead to a hell realm, that could lead to an animal realm, and so on and so forth, or the hungry ghost realm. That's another realm that's there. So anything lower than the human realm is essentially a part of expending karma. Any realm lower than the human realm is a process of expending karma over there. You don't have the opportunity

except for the animal realm, where there are certain opportunities to create karma. But mostly, especially in the hungry ghost realms and in the hell realms, it's a matter of expending the negative karma that one has built up. For example, you have the condition of Devadatta. If I'm not mistaken, he's right now spending time in hell.

But at a certain point in time, he will become a solitary Buddha because he also had good karma. He had wholesome karma and took refuge in the Buddha, in the Sangha, and in the Dhamma. So that's the thing: you expend all the negative karma in hell, and then once that's expended you come back according to your good deeds, most probably either in the animal realm or in the human realm. It could even be a deva realm, but more primarily it'll probably be in an animal or a human realm.

Okay, thank you. Sorry, what about deva realm? What is this? So there's the higher sensual realms, there's the brahma realms, there's the different deva realms, and there's the realms related to the jhanas. Then there's the realms of infinite space, infinite consciousness, the realm of nothing. So what you're seeing is that when you experience different jhanas, they correspond to different higher realms beyond the human realms. So there are some realms where there are the higher sensual realms, where you are basically enjoying the fruits of your good karma. So just like hell is temporary in Buddhism, so is heaven.

So, you know, there is no eternal heaven. There are different kinds of heavens as well, depending upon the karma you produce. And then as you get deeper into your practice, you start to cultivate the jhanic factors, you start to cultivate the jhanas, and these can create the opportunity for you to experience higher deva realms, the brahma realms, and then of course the realms associated with the formless realms, the formless jhanas as they call it. But this is really the perception and being in the realm of infinite consciousness, infinite space, infinite consciousness, nothingness, and neither perception nor non-perception. And in these realms, it's more of mentality being spontaneously reborn in mentality rather than mentality and materiality.

Right, so yeah, somebody sent a link on the chat which will probably give you more explanation into the 30, 31 planes of existence, the different lokas in the Buddhist context. Thank you for both. Hi, Jason. Hi. I actually have a question regarding the realm as well. I just wonder, like, you know, they talk about, like, the higher the realm, the longer, like, extend to, like, aeons. But is that the perception of beings who is there? The time is definitely not as long as we as humans think in terms of years, right? That's right. Oh yeah, there's a

There is a different perception of time in those realms, as compared to our perception of time in the human realm. It's like, I'll give you a very simple example. It's like how humans live up to 80 years old, or 100 years old, 120 years old, and for them that's quite normal. But in the case of a fly, that's quite a long time. Speaking about realms, there are people and beings that can remember past lifetimes.

But it seems like they are suppressed. Normally, rebirth is this information stored in formations and available under special conditions, so that you can still see them? Yeah, yeah. They are primarily accessed through formations, because formations, as I said before, are the carriers of karma, the karmic impulses. So if you go to, um, somewhere in the Digha Nikaya, I can't tell you exactly where, but if you just look for Vipassi Buddha, I believe in his case, when he was reflecting on the links of dependent origination, he went as far as consciousness, because he was looking into just this life. But then once you get into formations, you start to access the formations

that arose in this present life due to past karma in previous lifetimes. So the way to access different lives or different past lives is to use the fourth jhana as the base, your foundation. And the reason is because it has very strong equanimity. So the reason you need that strong equanimity is, as you get to experience the previous lives, there might be great amounts of joy in certain lives, there might be great amounts of sadness in other lives, but you need to maintain that equanimity. And the way it's done is to really start to remember things that happen in this life, starting from yesterday and then going back, and so on and so forth. And it's like a fast rewind, which starts to show things up until the point of one's birth in this lifetime, and then beyond, which will be the previous life where one was where the body dissolved, in the case of if there was mentality materiality. So the previous point being the death of the previous life, and so on and so forth.

So that's one way of doing it, using the fourth jhana, and then going on and looking at those past lives in that way. There's also the ability to see the arising and passing away of beings according to their kamma. So this happens, as this is the threefold knowledge. The first knowledge being seeing the different lives across eons, and one can start to experience that at a different scale of time. So what might seem like maybe an hour or two hours, or maybe an entire night of having gone through different lives, in that time span you have gone through possibly eons and eons of different lives, even up to seeing the destruction of the universe, the contraction, and then the expansion, and so on and so forth.

And then the second knowledge of the threefold knowledge is seeing the arising and passing of beings depending upon their karma. So you start to see the different realms at that point. You start to see how a certain action created this certain formation in that being. And when you see that this action created a certain formation in that being, taking that personal, that being then took birth in that particular realm. So you see how the formations really are what determine, in the case of how you attach to that formation. If there's attachment to that formation, that's going to cause rebirth. And depending upon the quality of that formation, meaning if it's a wholesome formation or an unwholesome formation, which is usually prevalent depending on the amount of unwholesome actions or wholesome actions you've taken.

In other words, if a being is someone who is consistently wholesome, consistently wholesome in their actions, in their speech, they will have primarily wholesome activities. They will have primarily wholesome formations. So for that reason, they will start to take rebirth in wholesome realms, realms where the fruits of their kamma can be experienced. So it is always through formations that the higher realms, or the understanding of how rebirth takes place in different realms, as well as how rebirth takes place in one's own case through one's own formations, that one is inherited in this life.

Yeah, so the sutta that I was talking about with regards to Vipassi Buddha is Digha Nikaya 14, Maha Padana Sutta. So, we can wait for about 30 more seconds, 20, 30 more seconds, see if anybody else has any questions, and if not, we can share merits. So shall we share merits? Yes, okay. So everybody can unmute and maybe join in. Well, all right, let's go. May suffering ones be suffering free, and the fear struck, and the space that I've just acquired in the position of happiness. It leads in having space and... thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.