Day 7: Dependent Origination part 2

So today we'll continue with our discussion on dependent origination. Yesterday we discussed Just dukkha or suffering, jati or birth, bhava or habitual tendencies, upadana or clinging, and tanha or craving, and vedana or feeling. Today we will discuss the rest of the series in reverse order. So we'll talk about contact, coming from the word phassa. Phassa in Pali comes from the Sanskrit word sparsha, which means to touch, so when you make contact. It's the initial contact that's made between a sense object, or a sense space, and a sense base object.

What the Buddha has described contact as, it's formulated by three things. First, you need the sense base, the sense base object, and the joining of the two brings up a corresponding sense base consciousness. So, when the eye meets with a form, it sees form and color, and there is a corresponding eye consciousness that arises. When the ear makes contact with a sound, there is a corresponding ear consciousness that arises.

When the nose makes contact with a smell, fragrance, or odor, there is a corresponding nose consciousness that arises. When the tongue makes contact with a flavor, there is a corresponding tongue consciousness. When the body makes contact with the tangible, there is a corresponding body consciousness. And finally, when the mind makes contact with the mind object, there is a corresponding mind consciousness.

So this is very important to understand when we talk about consciousness. What this refers to is attention. So we'll get deeper into attention and intention and so on. Think about what that means. Right now, you are all seeing me, right? The eyes are making contact with this color and form. So that creates a corresponding eye consciousness dependent upon this contact between the two.

That consciousness arises because there's attention directed towards something. Right now you're looking at me. If I were to direct your attention to the Buddha here, then all of your eyes make contact with the Buddha, the form of the Buddha, and there is a corresponding eye consciousness that arises. So that eye consciousness arises dependent upon where you put your attention. This is how contact works. That's why, if you're watching a movie, let's say you're in the movie theater or you're watching a movie at home,

you might be watching it, it might seem like you're watching the movie, and you might look at a particular character, and your eyes might be making contact with the screen, but if your attention is not on the screen, even though your eyes are looking, because maybe you're thinking now about the character, or it makes you remember an event in your life similar to the scene that's happening, and so on, and a minute later you're like, what happened? Even though you're watching the movie, it's like, okay, who is this person, what happened? Because your attention is not directed there. So when we talk about the sense base consciousnesses, we're referring to the ability to experience through attention.

Seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, touching, and feeling and thinking, I should say. These are all part of vedana. These are all part of the process of experience, of feeling. The initial contact that triggers these processes is what we're talking about. So the attention is required. That's why, let's say, you have somebody who is blind. Their eye is there. There is the name and form, or I should say the form and the color.

But if there's no underlying corresponding consciousness there, and if it doesn't arise, then they are not seeing. A person who is deaf, their ear is there and the sound vibration is there, but if there is no consciousness to pick it up, no attention to pick it up, then there can't be contact, which gives rise to the process of hearing. Likewise with the other sense bases. So this is very important to understand in terms of the meditation. Also, when you are meditating, what are you doing? You bring up an object of meditation. Your attention is directed towards the object, which means your mind is meditating on an object. The mind makes contact with the mind object, there's a corresponding mind consciousness, and with the three there is mind contact, and there is a process of meditating going on in terms of the experience.

As soon as a hindrance arises, as soon as a distraction arises, maybe for a split moment your attention goes there. But your attention is fully on the object, and then after a while the attention is directed, or directs itself, it seems like, towards the distraction, towards the hindrance. So what does that mean? Your attention has changed from being on the object of meditation and directed towards the hindrance, and so there is a new consciousness that arises, dependent upon the mind making contact with the hindrance, and mind consciousness arising dependent upon the two. That is the new mind contact that arises.

So this process of meditation is observing how the mind's attention moves from one object to the other, and not taking it personally. That's part of mindfulness, and that's part of wisdom. So what do you do? You recognize your attention is there. You intentionally let go of it. And then you redirect your attention to the object of meditation through the process of the four R's, or the 6R's, or right effort.

So what's going on out there in terms of sounds, or in terms of, you know, a fly landing on your skin, or whatever it is, all of that is happening. Those are all the objective objects that are happening, right? But if your attention is directed towards them, then you have to bring it back. If you feed your attention to them through a version of "why is this sound there, how do I deal with this sound," then your attention is further on the hindrance, on the sound.

But if you recognize, okay, your attention is not there, it's no big deal, and you let go and you come back, then you're dealing with it in the right way. If you're meditating for a long period of time where there's no thought, there's no distraction at all, the mind is very directed towards its object. And then all of a sudden something comes up and your mind gets distracted by that. Not only distracted, it gets upset by it. That means two things. One is that your mind is too condensed towards its object.

Your attention is too focused. Your awareness is not open enough. And secondly, you don't have enough equanimity to be able to say, okay, here is a present distraction, I'm going to let it go. It's not a big deal if the distraction is there. It's okay for it to be there. It's fine. All you have to do is just redirect your attention. That's it. It's a matter of a couple of seconds to redirect your attention back to the object.

So contact happens all the time. In infinite consciousness, that is what you're experiencing. Attention given here, attention given there. It's like the flickering behind your eyes. The clicking in the ears. The electricity around your face. The tingling in the body, whatever it is, it's all just contact, contact, contact, contact. Attention going here, going here, going here, going here. You're just observing how the attention moves. That's it.

So, what is this contact dependent upon? This contact is dependent upon the sixth sense basis. The salayatana, the base, the dimension, the space. That is the base. Salah means six, the six bases, the six sense bases. What are the six sense bases? The eyes, the ears, the nose, the tongue, the body, and the mind. These are the six sense bases. These bases are like receptors.

They bring in, or they receive, the different electrical signals that the world is putting out. That is why the Buddha said this world that you think of as the world is basically this valid long body and the sixth sense bases that make it. Because it is through the sixth sense bases that it is your interface in this matrix.

The sixth sense basis is your computer interface through which signals are received, and then the mind interprets them as thinking, as touching, as smelling, as seeing, as hearing, and so on. So the sense bases are essentially that. They're not you. They're instruments. So if you take the I personally, if you take the ear personally, if you take the body personally, if you take the nose and the mind personally, you're going to cause yourself suffering. Because if something happens that's unpleasant, dependent upon the I, dependent upon the ear and so on, then even that experience is taken as my experience.

But if you change the perspective and see it as an impersonal process, that even these instruments are just instruments that are being used, that are going through a process of contact, feeling, and perception, then you stop identifying them. Now, these sixth sense bases are present even in cessation. The only difference is that the faculties are... so what it says in the suttas is, when you experience cessation of perception, feeling, and consciousness, the senses or the faculties are bright and clear. They're bright and clear. What does that mean?

So why does he say that? Sorry, for just talking about this. For example, in one of the suttas, to another monk, he says the difference between a dead body and one who is in cessation is that in the dead body, the sense faculties are broken up. This is what we talked about in terms of the dying process, right? Each of the sense bases dissolves and is no longer functional.

It's completely ruptured. Whereas in cessation, the faculties are still connected. The faculties are still present, the faculties are still active, but in cessation it's like there is no traffic jam of sensory data happening. It's like the time of lockdown and COVID, where you would see no cars or people on the street. The same way, the sensory impingement upon the sense base is not present.

Even though there's stuff coming up, if you're in cessation and a sound comes, because there's no underlying consciousness, the sound is not registered and received by the ears. The faculties are absolutely clear of any kind of registry or reception of sensory data. Now, these sense spaces are dependent on what's known as mentality-materiality, namarupa, name and form. Before we explore mentality, because there's a lot of facets in mentality, we'll just go to the basic, which is materiality.

Materiality is the four elements: earth, water, air, and fire. So these are basically states of matter, let's say. Right, the earth element is the solidity of the body. So that could be the body. This could be this table, it could be this glass, it could be these candles, and so on. It could be the chairs. They're solid, they have more earth element. The water element is anything that has a certain level of movement and flow, like the water in this glass, the blood in the body, the different aspects of liquid in the body.

They flow around, they circulate, and then you have the air element, which is the gaseous state of matter. This is happening anywhere, internal or external. We have air molecules all throughout here, oxygen and nitrogen and so on and so forth, likewise in the body. And then finally we have the fire element, which is the heat and temperature of the body. Everything has a certain kind of heat, everything has a certain kind of temperature. So this is what makes up this body. And so the six sense bases are also made up of the body. The eyes have a solidity, the ears have a solidity, the nose, the tongue, the body itself, and the mind. The mind here could be associated with mano, as the brain itself.

But the mind is something else, which we'll explore a little bit shortly. So the sense bases are nothing more than a collection of different states of matter, and they have the process of receiving signal. That's it. So they are tied to nama-rupa, that's why they are dependent upon mentality and materiality. Now let's talk about mentality. There are five components to mentality: contact, feeling, perception, intention, and attention. So we talk about contact, we talk about feeling, and we talk about perception, but hold on, contact is already mentioned ahead, right? The sense bases give rise to contact. So what is this contact in mentality? Is it the same or is it different? How do we treat it? So let's understand that the process of contact is one thing, which allows us to feel, dependent on the sense bases, but the instrument of contact is in mentality.

That is to say, the faculty for the process of contact to address. One of the ways you think about it is, our brain is made up of different kinds of lobes. There's a temporal lobe, there's a parietal lobe, there's, you know, all these different facets of the brain, and each one works together to create some kind of experience, and each aspect of the brain has a certain function. So in the same way, in mind, the function of contact happens through the instrument of contact in mentality. The function of feeling, of experiencing, is routed through the faculty

registered by the faculty of feeling in mentality. The function or process of perception is rooted in the faculty of perception, which is memory and learning. And then intention. Intention is where you direct the mind. It comes from the word chetana, which is to incline the mind somewhere. So the inclination, in this case, would be: I am sitting here and I want to get to the other side of the room, so my inclination is to go there. When I take those steps, that is the volition, and me taking those steps, right, is through the process of intention.

And this is happening because, or is facilitated through, formations. I'll explain formations once we get there. But intention is essentially where you direct things towards. And so attention is that through which consciousness flows. Where attention goes, consciousness flows. So each aspect of mentality and materiality, all put together, corresponds to the five aggregates. Form, or materiality, is part of the form aggregate. Through contact you have feeling, which is the feeling aggregate. Through contact you have perception, which is the perception aggregate. Through contact you have intention, which is the formations aggregate. If you want to understand the quality of your formations, see what your intention is, where your mind inclines. And attention corresponds to the consciousness aggregate.

So the way to look at it is, consciousness is the spotlight, okay? And that spotlight, on the stage, is directed towards the stage. The attention is the direction in which that spotlight goes. The intention is controlling the directionality of that spotlight. So when you meditate, what are you doing? You have all these in the meditation. Mind is there. There is an intention to bring up an object of meditation.

And then there is contact between the mind and the object. And then there is the feeling of loving-kindness. There's the perception of loving-kindness. There's the attention given to the loving-kindness. When the attention breaks and goes to a hindrance, there is hindrance as the object. There is mind making contact with that, giving rise to the feeling of the hindrance, the perception of the hindrance, and the attention of that hindrance.

So these are the facets of mind. And that's the question people have: where is mind? Is mind here in the brain? Where is mind here in the heart? Where is mind in the nervous system, all the way from the top of the head down to the tips of the feet? We could say any of those. We could say mind is in the brain. We could say mind is in the heart. We could say mind is in the nervous system.

But then mind can also encompass all of samsara. How would you explain how, when somebody sends loving-kindness or compassion to another being, if they are receptive, they feel it? So mind is beyond just body. Mind is not just tied to body, although for you to experience body, you need the mind, and mind can be housed in the body.

And so, mind allows you to experience contact, feeling, perception, intention, and attention. These are the facets of mind. Mind and body, or mentality and materiality, are dependent upon, and in fact interdependent with, consciousness. The word consciousness comes from the Pali vijnana. Jnana means knowledge, jnana means to know, vi means to divide. It is the bare awareness, the bare cognition, the bare knowledge of something that is divided by the sense base. That's why you have eye consciousness, ear consciousness, nose consciousness, tongue consciousness, body consciousness, and mind consciousness.

In order for this consciousness to arise, or these consciousnesses to arise, mind and body have to make contact using the instruments of the six sense bases. That's why consciousness is dependent upon mind and body. But in order for mind and body to function, it requires consciousness. They are interlinked. And at a macro level, what this means is, when we think about rebirth from one life to the next life, what is happening?

At that moment of death, if the mind is wholesome, and we'll simplify it so we talk about one human life to the next human life, the way it can be understood is that the mind goes through a process of a life review and then experiences wholesome states of mind and inclines towards them. And through that fuel of craving, it gives rise to certain formations, which then give rise to a corresponding consciousness.

This consciousness is known as the patisandhi consciousness, the rebirth-linking consciousness, which then carries forward all of the karmic seeds in the form of those formations into the next being to create the new being. Now, in order for that to happen, you need three things. You need the mother, you need the father, and you need the consciousness. And so that consciousness then descends into the genetic match of the embryo, of whatever that genetic material is.

And those genes are essentially the storehouses of different karmic tendencies, behavioral tendencies. That's why karma is so fluid. It's dependent upon environment. It's also dependent upon tendencies. It's also dependent upon how you behave, or how you choose to behave. So all of those formations then get lodged into the genetic matter. And the consciousness there, which is known as the gandabba, descends into the womb, into that genetic material, and then dissipates.

And then there is the arising and passing away of various consciousnesses in that genetic material. Very primitive, very primal, not a lot of things going on until it starts to develop in the womb. This is how the Buddha has explained the whole process of birth. That in nine or ten months of this process, there is the life energy that continues to progress. It continues to give rise to the embryo and the fetus and so on and so forth. And there is still contact being made within the womb.

So formations continue to be developed, and consciousness continues to arise and pass away depending upon various kinds of contact. So the way the mother feels, the way the mother is treated, the outside environment of the mother, and so on, has an impact on that particular being, and what kind of formations arise or what kind of formations don't arise. And so for the consciousness to descend, it needs mentality and materiality. It needs a genetic material. But in order for that genetic material to grow, it requires that descending of the consciousness.

So you need all three, and this doesn't just need to be in terms of a womb. It can also happen through the process of IVF, right? So the sperm makes contact with the ovum, and then after a while it's then implanted, right? And upon implantation, that descending consciousness comes to be. It can happen at any point.

Once the consciousness is successfully implanted or descended into that genetic material, then existence arises, then there is bhava, then the tendencies start to become formulated. Contact arises, feeling arises, and so on and so forth. Now, this consciousness is dependent upon formations. Formations come from the word sankharas or samskaras. Sankhara means to cook up something, to create something, to percolate.

And you primarily have three kinds of samskaras that we deal with. They're also known as mental impressions. There are mental samskaras, there are verbal samskaras, and there are bodily samskaras. Mental has to do with the mind, and it is the mind that primarily feels and perceives, because even though it's all received as signals through the eyes and the ears and so on, ultimately the mind takes that and interprets that signal into seeing, hearing, thinking, feeling, and so on.

So that's why these are mental formations that allow you to feel and perceive. Verbal formations are vitakka and vicara. You make contact with something. For example, you're outside and you see the lake. So the lake makes contact with your eyes. There's a corresponding eye consciousness. And then there's the decision, the intention, to say, oh, what a beautiful lake. And you break out into speech, facilitated through verbal formations.

Then you go a step further and you say, I want to walk towards that lake. And so you walk, which is facilitated through the intention of walking, which corresponds to the physical or bodily formations. These formations can be likened to synapses in the brain, which continue to be pruned, especially at a very young age, where you start to make different choices. You start to have certain kinds of inclinations and tendencies, so certain synapses are strengthened and certain synapses are pruned.

But the beauty of this is we have neuroplasticity, so we can continue to recondition those synapses. Formations also can be likened to genetic expression. Certain genes turn on depending upon the environment, and we behave a certain way, but also it's dependent upon how we choose to behave according to that environment. So there's a lot of intricacies and interdependencies.

There are other kinds of sankharas, like ayu-sankharas, which have to do with the longevity of the cells and the body. So these can be likened to the telomeres, the end caps of your DNA that determine how long this body has to live, depending upon the behaviors, depending upon the lifestyle choices, depending upon how well you take care of your health, and so on. But they are not something that ceases in cessation. What ceases in cessation are three things.

Mental formations, verbal formations, and bodily formations. And so the Ayus and Karas continue to allow metabolism to continue, to allow the heat to continue, to allow the vitality of the body to continue, for a little while. It is said in the suttas up to seven days. After seven days, that's it. At least that's what the sutta says. Now, these formations are also carriers of karma. They're facilitators of karma, and these formations can be rooted or chained by greed, hatred, and delusion. And so the formations continue to change based on your intentions. The more wholesome intentions you have, the less craving, the less greed, hatred, and delusion is present in those formations.

As you continue to recondition, whatever karma does arise is being carried forward by these formations. And so if there is greed, hatred, and delusion in the form of craving, in the form of conceit, with taking things personally, in the form of ignorance or lack of mindfulness, those formations will then influence the arising of the consciousness, the awareness by which you see things or experience things, which can be tainted by 16 different categories of upakilesas, anything from envy, to greed, to pride, to stinginess, to whatever it is.

And this step further conditions the way in which the mind makes contact, or the sense basis makes contact, and how you take feeling. So as I was saying when we talk about the river of dependent origination, the vortexes are different links of dependent origination, but what is moving underneath those, in the case of feeling, is the underlying tendencies that can give rise to craving, clinging, and becoming.

In the case of formations, it is the roots of greed, hatred, and delusion. In the case of consciousness, it's the staining of one of the defilements, the 16 defilements. Now, these formations are influenced or conditioned by ignorance. What is ignorance? Avijja. Ignorance is not understanding or not knowing the four noble truths. Now, there's the ignorance, which is you have never been introduced to the four noble truths.

But once you are introduced to the four noble truths, you don't practice the application of the four noble truths. And so, very practically speaking, what ignorance is, is a lack of mindfulness. Whenever you have a lapse in mindfulness, ignorance comes to be. So, let's say the eyes are making contact with something that's pleasing, and there is a pleasant seeing of something. If the mind takes it personally, doesn't have yoniso manasikara, an attention rooted in reality to see this as not me, not mine, not myself, then that mindfulness is muddled.

That mindfulness being muddled is essentially ignorance, which means the formations that arise are either rooted in greed, hatred, or delusion, which can give rise to some kind of a consciousness, which then processes that feeling further into craving, clinging, and becoming. So while we see the linear aspect of dependent origination, in reality there is a lot of feedback loop systems that are going on, namely through contact. Contact gives rise to formations, which gives rise to certain intentions. Contact gives rise to feeling, which is facilitated through mental formations.

Contact can give rise to certain perceptions, which is facilitated through mental formations, and so on and so forth. So that ignorance, the lack of mindfulness, is also dependent on something. That ignorance is dependent upon what are known as asavas, generally traditionally translated as fermentations, or as outflows, or as corruptions, or defilings. And there are three types of asavas. When I first wrote the book A Mind Without Praying, when I made the translations for some of these different links, the translation that I wanted to use for asavas, which was finally not approved by the editing board, let's say because it was during the time of covid, I wanted to translate asavas as viruses because that's what they are.

They are the corruption of the software of the mind, but they said if you use the word virus, people are going to equate that with Kobe and all of these other things. So at some point I'm going to go back, I'm going to push back on my editors and I'm going to tell them, look, it's over, we can use the word virus, it's fine. So these viruses, there are three of them. There is the asava of sensual craving, there's the asava of bhava, or existence, and there is the asava of ignorance itself. Every time you take a sensual experience as personal, as me, mine, or myself, it feeds back energy

and strengthens the asava of sensual craving, which strengthens further lack of mindfulness and the rest of the series, the links. Every time you take something personally and say, I want to be something, this existence, or you act from these behavioral tendencies and take them personally, you strengthen the asava of bhava, or existence. Every time you have general lack of mindfulness and take something personal, you feed back energy into the asava, or virus, of ignorance.

And the further it strengthens, the further it conditions ignorance. And what conditions the asavas? Ignorance itself. In other words, the asavas and ignorance are interdependent. Whenever there's lack of mindfulness and something being taken personally, it feeds back to these asavas. And so these asavas are the seeds of rebirth, and they're only destroyed upon certain attainments.

For example, the asava of sensual craving is completely destroyed at anagami. The asava of ignorance and bhava, or existence, existential craving, is completely destroyed at arahant. Once those asavas are completely gone, then there is perfect mindfulness. No more ignorance, which means now that ignorance is replaced by right view, wisdom. And whatever formations arise are said to be pure. Pure because they no longer have the roots of greed, hatred, or delusion. They are just pure carriers of karma.

And so whatever consciousness arises is not stained by any defilement. And therefore, everything that contact is made with is just seen as an impersonal process, and every feeling is taken as an impersonal process. Which means no underlying tendencies can arise. Which means no craving, no clinging, no becoming. Which means no birth of new action. Which means no more suffering.

That's how, for the mind of the arahant, the dependent origination series functions. There are present formations, consciousness, mentality, materiality, contact, six sense bases, and feeling. Tied to it is perception. These are the only things that are functional for the arahant. That's why the way to look at karma, now we'll get into deeper things about dependent origination, because dependent origination is a machinery through which karma can flow.

We have old karma and we have new karma. Old karma, the Buddha has said, is everything from formations or ignorance, let's say for somebody who is not fully awakened, all the way down to feeling. In other words, it is karma that you inherit, karma that you cannot do anything about but feel and experience. So everything you're experiencing in the present moment is old karma, is a result of new karma. Now let me explain what that means. Now, all the old karma is experienced as a feeling and perception.

If the mind takes that experience as me, mine, or myself, in other words, there is lack of mindfulness, then certain underlying tendencies will arise. These are the mechanisms, along with craving, clinging, and becoming, for new karma to be generated. And then the birth of that new karma gives rise to further look up in the form of old karma. So what you do now is the new karma, which is inherited as a result of that karma, in the form of old karma that you inherit. So what you do now is the active process of taking things personally.

At some future period, it will result in old karma that you have to inherit, to be experienced. What you choose to do with it can either help dissipate that karma or further renew it. To further renew it, it's easy. All you have to do is crave, and cling, and become. But to dissipate it, how do you dissipate it?

To dissipate it, you use the Eightfold Path. The Buddha has said that the cessation of karma is through the Eightfold Path. The way leading to the cessation of karma is the Eightfold Path. And the Eightfold Path is encompassed, abbreviated, in right effort, because right effort is the heart, is the core, of the Eightfold Path. Through right effort, you go from wrong view to right view.

From wrong intention to right intention, from wrong speech to right speech, from wrong action to right action, from wrong lifestyle to right lifestyle, from wrong mindfulness to right mindfulness, and wrong collectedness to right collectedness. It is through this process of right effort. How do you do that with regards to feeling? Because that's where you experience the old karma. You recognize any time the mind takes it personally through craving or aversion, through grasping. You release your attention from it, you relax, you generate a wholesome state of mind,

and then continue that whole system. So in the context of meditation, any hindrance that arises is old karma to be inherited and experienced. How do you deal with it? Do you fight with it? Do you get angry about it? Do you get upset by it? Do you push it away? Do you want more of it? What do you do? Because all of that is going to result in what? The strengthening of that hindrance, to take its place over and over and over. Unless you recognize the aversion towards it. You recognize the craving around it. You recognize the identification with that, and you release your attention, you relax,

and then generate a wholesome state. And then what happens? The hindrance might come up again. It's the nature of karma. It'll come up again, but this time, it will be less in strength. It will be weaker. So what do you do? You 6R's again, you four R's again. It goes away. It comes up yet again, but this time it's even weaker.

It comes up yet again, it becomes even weaker. Eventually it completely dissipates. This is how you cease karma. Only in the present moment, as it arises, you notice what's going on, and you let go of any kind of taking it personally. And you allow it to be there. And it will dissipate. But if you take it personally, it will only further aggravate it.

This is how you break certain habit patterns. This is how you break habitual situations. Eventually, you keep letting go, keep letting go, until they don't arise again. This is the utility of dependent origination. What arises gives rise to another. It's dependent upon one thing. What ceases is dependent upon what ceases. So in other words, if contact arises, feeling arrives. If contact ceases, feeling ceases.

So the cessation of karma is happening by understanding the process of feeling. Understanding this arose as a result of karma. And therefore, it's not me, not I, not myself, choosing to let it go. It weakens, it weakens, it weakens, until it goes away completely. Now that we are on the topic of karma, one of the questions that could arise is, how do we know when what karma arises?

That is dependent upon causes and conditions. You think about karma as different kinds of seeds. Let's say you have an apple seed, you have a watermelon seed, and you have an orange seed. And by the nature of each of those seeds, they will germinate at a certain time. There is information stored in them as to when they will grow and so on. You plant the seeds in the ground. Now let's say one seed doesn't have enough nutrition in the soil, doesn't have enough water, and doesn't have enough sunlight. Will that seed come to fruition? No. But another seed has enough water, has enough nutrition in the soil, and has enough sunlight. Will that seed come to full fruition? Yes. That's the same thing with karma. There is a karmic action that is produced in one life or in one moment. It's not like immediately after that corresponding moment the effect of that karma would arise. It would arise only if the causes and conditions are present.

For that effect of karma to arise, it will later arise. And it has, by its nature, some form of an arising dependent upon the causes and conditions. That can happen in this moment, that can happen at a later stage in this life, or they can happen at another rebirth. That's the nature of karma. It's dependent upon the arising of causes and conditions.

So how do you deal with karma? Do you deal with karma by thinking, I'm experiencing this particular karma now. When exactly did this karma arise? Was it 10,000 lifetimes ago? Was it five minutes ago? Is that the way to deal with it? Or do you deal with it by thinking, here is karma, how do I deal with it? Am I taking it personally?

Or do I choose to let it go and allow it to dissipate on its own. So there is no point, it's an exercise basically, to find out a certain kind of karmic link or series of karmas that resulted in the arising of this particular present karma. That's why we talk about mindfulness of the present moment, mindfulness and having the presence of mind here and now. To be aware of what karmic fruitions are happening and being able to deal with them by letting go of any ingredients that can further grow that plant, further grow that seed, through the ingredients of craving, clinging, and becoming.

Through mindfulness, we're able to see that and we're able to let go of the causes and conditions so that that seed doesn't come to full fruition. Or when it does, it doesn't create more seeds and create an entire field of plants or fruit trees or whatever it might be. So we have to let go in the present moment of any kind of clutching, any kind of craving, any kind of clinging.

And the way we let go of it is through the right effort. That's why the beauty of the six R's is it can be applied anywhere at any point in time. It's not just about the meditation. Whenever you notice conflict arise, whenever you notice the mind reacting to this, so what is that conflict? That conflict is present karma that you have inherited through certain causes and conditions.

Now, you can choose to escalate that conflict by getting upset, by getting angry, by taking it personally, by creating craving, and clinging, and becoming, and then birth of further karma, by reacting. Or you can choose to let go of that percolation of some scars that arise that want to become angry. You can choose to let go of that.

And instead of reacting, you respond with wisdom, rooted in that mindfulness of the present as being not me, not mine, not myself. And by de-escalating, what are you doing? Not creating further karma, not creating further suffering for yourself. Any questions? Thank you. Sometimes it feels like that we keep creating some to come up with the echo, like it's kind I don't think it is happening, it is everything, intentions, everything sort of formations and sort of reversed in common. No.

Only your intentions produce the incarnation. So you have to focus on your intentions, and only the karma that will arise is dependent upon the causes and conditions that are present. You don't have to experience all your karma. No, otherwise in that case, for someone to be fully awakened they need to have dissipated all their karma, and for them to attain full nibbana, final nibbana, they'll have had to dissipate all of their karma. Not the case. What happens is, for a fully awakened being, when they let go of all craving, all greed, hatred and delusion,

then the formations that arise do only carry forward old karma to be inherited, but from actions that were produced prior to full awakening. But because that mind is fully awakened, there is no further craving that can further give rise to that karma. So that mind is only experiencing the results of it. And it is only experiencing the results based on whatever causes and conditions are present.

You don't have to experience all of the karma. That's not the way it works. So just to maybe understand this a little better, with an example: so if I, for example, there is this notion of clinging to pleasant feelings, the jhanas, for example, craving for them. And then it says that one would be reborn as some higher being and the practice becomes impossible because one doesn't have any inclination in the practice because everything is just perfect.

Is this what we would associate with good karma in a way? Like, good and bad karma, for example, going to lower realms, and good karma going to these deva realms. But then it wouldn't be good for awakening itself, right? There seems to be two notions of good in this case. So I don't think you need to use the words good or bad. I think you should use the words beneficial or unbeneficial, wholesome or unwholesome, because good or bad would denote it's absolutely good and not it's absolutely bad.

But when we talk about the dichotomy of pleasant and unpleasant, let's say that's another way of looking at it. So for general people, if you go into Brahma loka it's great karma, it's fun. But for someone who's on the path to awakening, unless you attain stream entry and then go into the Brahmaloka, nothing's going to happen. From there you will attain other states.

But if you haven't attained Sotapanna and you go into the Brahmalokas, then you have to spend some time there and then you come back. That's how the cosmological perspective works. So, ultimately, for the fully awakened mind or any mind that is on the path to awakening, you have to let go of all karma, good, bad, or different, pleasant, unpleasant, or neutral.

Which means, yes, you continue to develop wholesome inclinations for the purpose of uplifting your mind so that you experience the brahmaviharas and the jhanas and ultimately nibbana. All of that is important and has great utility. But if it's taken personally, so even for the anagami, they have to take rebirth because they take even the wholesome states, even the Dhamma, personally.

But once you let go of that, which means you let go of conceit and all ignorance, then no further rebirth can arise. So, in the general scheme of things, a Brahmaloka is a wonderful place to be in. But ultimately, by that nature, you will go down, and that's part of the rest of the karma. So the good karma is coming up, and then you experience the unburdening of that karma, or experiencing the effects of all that karma. You burn out that karma through that process of experiencing the Brahmaloka. And whatever karma is left is usually weaker karma in terms of bad karma, unawesome karma, which can take you back then. And so this is the merry-go-round of samsara that we go on all the time.

It's good, then it's bad. Then it's good, then it's bad. Eventually, you get kind of sense. So there is this, in this sense, there is no difference between pleasant and unpleasant and good and bad. But there is this... All of it is suffering. All of it is suffering. But on the other hand, in order to attain liberation, one needs to use the pleasantness. Yes, that's playing the game.

That's the whole process of playing the game. Now you are hacking the matrix, and using that, and then finally letting that go as well. Thank you. Holding on and clinging to the hate and jealousy about this stuff seems to be a central condition of human being. Nobody is born without them. And plants don't have this, and animals don't have this, and it seems very unpractical, because we ruin the world and ourselves, and we have to do so hard stuff for getting out the camp. So we developed out of animals, but the animals don't do this. Is there a Buddhist story how the first karma started? No.

That's the thing, did something wrong. Yeah, yeah. So within the Buddhist perspective, even animals can't produce new karma, so they can't do anything about generating wholesome karma, right? But they are animals from the Buddhist perspective, because it's all centralized around humans, obviously. So when we talk about animals or we talk about lower beings, they are there as a result of karma that was produced in the human realm. When beings are in higher realms, they are there because of karma produced in the human realm. So the human realm is the only place.

where you can rack up points merit or demerit and more demerit will lead you apparently in lower groups and demerit will lead you to higher groups. That's the game. So for animals, they will continue to be animals until they exhaust that karma of being an animal and whatever other storehouse of karma is there in that line and take them back to evolving into a human realm. So it's like a chain of things that are there in line. So the other perspective is like let's say somebody has very wholesome karma that takes them to a higher level. They exhaust all of that. They use up all of their points. And then whatever is there in the storehouse

in the reserves of that karma will then lead them to another birth. And that could be back in the human realm or that could be in the animal realm. But it is in the human realm primarily where intention is vital in the creation process of karma. Yes. It seems that craving and clinging is somehow the weak point of the whole spot because we have the right effort, so we somehow hook there.

But does that mean that if a person just, I would say it, accidentally realizes that if he relaxes about negative situation, it calms him and he has bad outcomes? Does it mean that he can just look at things and perceive it and just do the right effort and actually attain nirvana? Or has it to be meditation in that form?

It can only take you so far. The actual application of it will only take you so far. That's why I'm saying the more you do it in your daily life, the better your meditation will be. And the more you do it in meditation, the easier it is for you to relax in daily life and let go. But you need both in order for that to happen. It's like two wings of a bird. You need both wings to fly. I find that materiality, mentality, materiality thing very complex and very difficult to understand. Yes, five aggregates. Just the five aggregates. That's okay. Like the form is the form aggregate, right? Materiality is the form aggregate.

Contact gives rise to feeling, which is the feeling aggregate. Perception, perception aggregate. Intention, formations aggregate, and attention, consciousness aggregate. That's all they are. So they are the different instruments through which experience arrives. Again, they're part of the interface, how to deal with this matrix. You explained to us that meditation is a form of correct condition. That's in taking a different originational change. you can say through meditation you're saying yes yes yeah because you have to look at the penetration as a continuous process happening in every moment so formations, consciousness, nama-rupa, and so on, happens in one moment, then another chain of formations, consciousness, nama-rupa, and so on, happens in another, and so on. In fact, it happened many times in one moment.

What's happening is, every time you have wholesome inclinations, every time you let go of greed, hatred, delusion, then the next arising of formations, no further greed will be there; it will weaken whatever greed is present in that formation. However, you might have a split up and you might act out of greed in the next horizon. And so what does that do? Again, it strengthens the next horizon of formations. So the more you're able to 6R's, the weaker we are making the subsequent arising of formations rooted in greed, hatred. Using the 6R's during meditation is more or less like a lab environment. have a lot of time and I am concentrated.

During the day it is completely different the life forces that I decide and do within seconds. Do you think it makes sense that in the evening or after some situation I do some internal review? What I have done or what has been a better way to do? Or should I forget everything that happens through the day?" I think you bring up a very good point about this. And this can happen for the meditation practice also. Ideally, for every sitting practice, you go back and you see what happened in the meditation. That allows you to see if there is anything you might have missed out, especially in either perception or non-perception.

And you can 6R right there. And you can use that on a larger scale, where if you had a lapse in mindfulness, you can say, okay, I'm going to let that go in this moment now with reviewing it. And that strengthens your ability to take notice of it at a future subsequent time. So there's a lot of utility in doing that. I had a look at your book and in the beginning you changed energy to application.

Yeah. Application means to apply effort. That's what I'm talking about. Application of the 6R's is energy, is the rebalancing of energy. So it's not like trying to... No. Yeah. That's too much to... Yeah. It's a practical application of the 6R's. Maybe just to repeat and to really buckle down, that means the Eightfold Path and all it is together actually produces less negative karma, let's say easy or good karma. It is actually just the possibility for you to explore nirvana in meditation, right? That means if I'm not meditating the best counter ever, it doesn't mean anything, or I should say it means something but it doesn't mean everything, which means you have wholesome karma and you're doing good things, it will only take you so far in the hierarchy.

But it won't liberate you. So that's why it's Sila, Samadhi, Panya. Sila is all about the keeping of the precepts and being a good person and so on, which readies the mind for meditation or Samadhi. Which then allows the process of Panya to happen, which leads you to nibbana. But if you only have one layer, with it, it'll only take you so far. But you need both to take you to nibbana. Now, there's also the understanding of meditation is life. Life is meditation. In other words, like I said, the more you meditate and the more you're able to let go, the more you apply meditation in daily life as well. And then that becomes a process of meditation or meditative awareness throughout the day.

The process of sikh sari and the process of being mindful and remaining in a wholesome state so you're applying meditation in everything that you're doing but you need to start off with some formal sitting practice from a formal samadhi practice in order for that to be integrated. This is the process of integration, to then ripen in insight, wisdom, and imbibh. The practical belongs to that question. When I'm integrating this kind of meditation I'm also meditating kind of only two times for as long as I can the week.

I think you answered your own question. Anything you can do to continue to sit is always very good. Even if it's for 30 minutes a day. But every time you can apply the 6R's, it's also a process of meditation. That's the way to see it as well. Okay, if there's nothing else, let's share some merit. May suffering ones be suffering and free, and fear of suffering and fear of mercy. May the griefs of all the relief, and may all of these who stand in relief. May our peace and spirit spread, and we have a desire for the accusations of long-mortem to repentance. May the kings and kings be raised in the world, the elders and elders of mighty power, share the spirit of the cross. May the long-mortem to the worst of the sins and sins be raised in the world.