Day-3 QA - Online 10-day Retreat (Nov-17) with Delson Armstrong

Thank you. Is there someone else? I'm just going to ask this question. One of the suttas has the wanderers of other sects in it, and they describe a very path. And I believe in the other sutta, the Buddha describes Sariputta and his journey through different stages of meditation. And so in the first sutta, again, the Buddha mentions that this path is really a bit different than just these stages of meditation. But then again, to me, it seemed like in the second sutta, all he mentioned as the complete path was those stages of meditation.

Or am I just forgetting a bit of the sutta or something? I'm not sure. Okay, just to clarify, you're talking about the Anupadha Sutta? Yes, yes. And what is the other sutta you're talking about? I think that was the second sutta that was here for day three. Yes, that's the Metta Sahagata Sutta, I think. Yeah, yeah. So, yes, there are the same experiences of the jhanas in other practices, let's say in yoga practice, in other meditative practices, where you will experience some of the same factors of the jhanas, including joy and bliss and equanimity and so on.

The difference here is it's not one-pointed, which means in the case of the other meditative practices, you have a point where you are solely focused on your object. And it's really not collectedness in that case. It is actually concentration. It's one-pointed concentration. And because of that, it doesn't allow you or the mind the space for the hindrances to arise.

Rather, what happens is the hindrances are then suppressed. And because of that, you're not able to face them as they arise and be able to let them go through the six R's process, let's say. And when you suppress the hindrances, they will manifest again in larger numbers and in larger energy. When you next meditate or even in your daily life, you will notice that the hindrances are still present and they actually are more in number and more in strength. Suppressing and not actually allowing the space in your mind to be able to see the hindrances and then let them go.

Secondly, yes, in terms of all the way from jhana 1 to jhana 8, these are also experienced in some ways or another in, for example, yoga practice. And in fact, two of the Buddha's teachers before he became awakened, one got all the way up to nothingness and the other all the way up to neither perception or non-perception.

So these sort of meditative attainments or states are available in different sects and different practices. The only difference is really where you are using right effort. That's one of the key insights that the Buddha had through understanding the Four Noble Truths, the truth being the Eightfold Path, and within that Eightfold Path, the fold of right effort, which then enables right mindfulness, which then enables right collectedness.

Thank you. Thank you. Can I ask a follow-up question on that, Delson? Sure. So if the Buddha had actually practiced these meditative states for, say, five to six years before he got awakened under the Bodhi tree, I suppose this memory of him having this blissful experience while he was very young to understanding that maybe he should approach the jhanas in a different way.

So I'm just curious, what are the other ways of in, for example, the yoga literature or the other samadhi practices in Hindu religion, what would be their object of meditation in order to reach, say, for example, So there are quite a lot of different ways of using the objects of meditations. For example, one of the very simple ways is using a mantra.

Just a one-word syllable or a series of syllables that help the mind essentially focus. And it's an anchor for the present moment. And so while you're doing that, you're also basically not paying attention to any of the other surrounding thoughts and then essentially suppressing them and just fully on that mantra or whatever those syllables might be. That's one kind of practice. Another practice is through the breath, but this is more of breath control, which is the conscious control of the breath. So you are doing a certain amount of inhalations, a certain amount of exhalations, a certain amount of length of inhalation and exhalation and so on. And this generally does calm the mind and calm the body, but then to the extent that you keep doing it, once you come out of it, it doesn't really transform

the mind. It doesn't actually give any sort of a shift, a permanent shift, because the mind uses or depends upon the breath or those breathing practices to come into that calm state of mind without any sort of insights arising. In regards to the arupajhanas, they happen, for example, in yoga practice, they can happen through the mantra because at a certain point, all that happens is you start to lose sensation of the body, and once you start losing sensation of the body you start losing sensory inputs, meaning you start losing the awareness of the sensory experiences around you, and so now you're starting to get into the realm of the arupajhanas. And eventually what happens is you have this perspective of what they call the atma or the brahman, you know, that's really the idea that the soul and the universe are one and the same if you were to talk about it in the yoga or Hindu perspective. And so that's really going into the territory of infinite space and then the idea of an eternal consciousness

that is all pervasive and so on and so forth. And these can be experienced in one-pointed jhanas as well, where there is that perception of infinite space and then one is basically one with space, one with the universe, and so on and so forth. But that is just a limitation because all of those experiences are dependent upon the mind and mental states. Insights as well, and that understanding as well, also goes away. So essentially you might have the idea that you are one with the universe, but that doesn't really translate into anything that's tangible or anything that's transformative in the long term.

Thank you, Delson. Good to know the other practices because focus on what is good for us. I'm appreciating the question and your response, which was this practice gives us space for the distresses to arise, the disturbances that are carried in the mind, whereas in comparison to the others that was being suppressed. So would I be correct in thinking that part of that clearing of those disturbances is what is happening in the action of the R's, and then the return. So that is actually chipping away or dissolving or diminishing those things. Yeah. As I said, the... Sorry, will you finish with the question? Because you kind of cut off for a moment.

Okay, good. As I was saying, the six R's are really coming from the four right efforts. It really does recondition the mind, and that translates into your choices that you have in daily living. So when you're able to apply mindfulness towards your daily living, you're able to see where your mind is in any given moment and be able to understand if there are unwholesome states arising in reaction to what is occurring.

See that you're able to then apply the four right efforts or the six R's as you understand them to be able to let go of those unwholesome states and then come back to a more balanced state of mind, or a more wholesome state of mind. So it is an ongoing practice. It's an ongoing practice beyond just the sitting and walking meditation, because the more you do it in sitting and walking meditation the more you're able to apply it in your daily life and vice versa. It's a feedback loop. So the more you can see these situations arising where you have the opportunity to actually apply mindfulness and be able to apply right effort, the more it translates into a stronger foundation for your mind, for your mindfulness, as well as for your meditative practice.

Thank you. Thank you. I have a question. Does the meditation influence our health? maybe you couldn't become a hindrance to the practice. Yeah. So the process of relaxing the mind and the body provides a general well-being. So that actually creates for yourself a relaxed mind and body. And that enables for you to have generally good health from the forefront. But if you do get sick, it's advised that you first take some rest to recover.

And I will say from the suttas, there are situations where there was a monk sick and there was an elaboration of the seven enlightenment factors, which then helped them to recover by understanding and applying the enlightenment factors. In fact, there's, I think, another sutta where the Buddha is also sick and somebody then gives an elaboration of the seven enlightenment factors, and by using that he then recovers from his sickness.

Having said that, if you feel like the body requires rest because of that ailment, it's more important first to get rest and then you can come back to the practice. People say that when we are in samadhi, they say that we heal ourselves. Isn't it happening? When we are in samadhi, meaning when you are in jhana? Yes.

It's quite possible, but I haven't heard firsthand from anyone healing through jhana practice on a physical level. So I wouldn't be able to tell you firsthand. Thank you. Yes, and this is somewhat of a question that is circulating in the TWIM group, the WhatsApp group. And there was a discussion between Bhante Dhammadavesi, Sister Kemal, and others in that group.

The question put forward was: when someone is listening to a discourse and they become enlightened, the first path at least they have reached, do they actually experience cessation, or is it possible to enter the first path and even the second path without actually experiencing cessation? It is possible to experience the first path, the second path, the third path, the fourth path without cessation.

There's evidence of it in the suttas, where, for example, you have Bahiya in the Bahiya Sutta, where he, upon listening to the Buddha, releases all the fetters and taints and becomes an arahant. Of course, you would require quite deep understanding and deep reflection and deep mindfulness to be able to do something like that. In the case of, for example, the very first sermon, which is the elaboration of the Four Noble Truths, stream entry just upon listening to the Buddha talk about the Four Noble Truths. In the sermon right after that, which is the Anattalakkhana Sutta, you have all five of the very first five disciples listening to the Buddha, and upon reflection of what the Buddha was saying, they released all the fetters and taints and became arahants.

So I suppose it's kind of meaningless to reflect upon whether you had actually entered the stream or not in order to ascertain to yourself that you have reached this level or that level, but rather it is more important to reflect upon the qualities of one's mind and see whether it has really changed you, I suppose. Exactly. So I would tell someone, for example, to see within your own mind and reflect whether certain fetters are present in your mind. And of course, you may have an initial response saying that you do, but you are able to test that out in the coming days, weeks, and months ahead to see whether your reactions and your responses are different from what they were before.

I have a question about taking meditation with you in, let's say, times when you work. Of course, you get concentrated on certain tasks. Is it good enough to try to bring the relaxed step in and to physically smile when it's difficult to also get the object of meditation in? Or would you say, maybe try something different in that case? What do you think?

I would say, generally speaking, it's always a good idea to relax, whatever it is that you might be doing. So even if you have a task or maybe you're multitasking or whatever your work may be, for example, it's important to keep a relaxed state of mind, that is more effective and more efficient for your thought process. And obviously when you start to feel tired or when you start to feel overworked, it's important to take maybe even a couple of minutes to break the tension in the body and release the craving that might have arisen in response to the work that's there. And a smile generally helps. A smile always helps.

Thanks. Thank you. No one would die, Delson. Many people say that the Buddha didn't teach smiling. But... perhaps elaborate on a few points where he stresses the importance of joy and upliftment of the mind. So on a practical level, this is something I tell people on the on-site retreats, just as a general aside. Go to the mirror and look at yourself in the mirror and create an angry expression and then smile and see if that works, because it will generally be very silly.

In essence, your smile is a byproduct of joy and vice versa. When you smile, you're generally uplifting the mind. There is a neurological connection between smiling and having an uplifted mind. In terms of the Buddha's description of joy and how it's important to keep an uplifted mind, the Buddha always talked about it in relation to the seven enlightenment factors.

It's essential just when you see that the fact that you require all seven enlightenment factors in order to get to Nibbana, joy is obviously quite important, and you actually experience this quite naturally when you get into the first and second jhana, and that then translates into a more calm state and then equanimity and tranquil state and equanimity. So when you are in jhana you are effectively working with the seven enlightenment factors. When you are in jhana, the seven enlightenment factors are present, and that includes joy.

And so as you traverse through each of the enlightenment factors, getting to joy and then that translating into tranquility and so on, and then ending with equanimity, when they're all in balance and they're used in a way to bring mind to balance, which includes joy, attain nibbana. Thank you, and thank you for your talk. That was a pretty good unpacking in all its ways, so that was very good, very good talk. Thank you. Thank you. Just a question, Delson. As far as karma goes, previous karma, what effect does that have on your progression through the arupa jhanas and beyond the arupa jhanas? So the thing about kamma is, it's always in motion.

Even for an arahant, it's always in motion, whether you are in jhana or not in jhana. But what's important to understand is actually, when you are in a state of jhana, you are actually not experiencing kamma. Kamma arises in the way of thought, action, and speech, in terms of the active sense of the word. And the passive sense of the word are the effects of that kamma, which can come in the form of thoughts. And those thoughts can be disturbances or hindrances that arise in the practice.

So that means that whenever you are actually using the four right efforts, or the 6R's, moment. So every time a hindrance arises, you are working with the effect of a kamma that you had created in a previous choice. And the more you let it go, the more you experience the cessation of kamma. That's why the Buddha says that when you utilize the Eightfold Path, you have the cessation of suffering, the cessation of craving, the cessation of kamma. So, generally, I will say that kamma does not arise in a jhanic state, in a state of jhana, because when you are in a state of jhana, you're not producing any kind of kamma, nor are you experiencing any kamma.

The moment you experience thoughts, that is kamma. The moment you experience those and put your attention on it, that is kamma. When you use the four right efforts, you let go of the effects of that kamma, and bit by bit you are allowing that kamma to be worn away. Likewise, in your daily living, in every choice that you make, you are either producing good kamma or bad kamma, unwholesome kamma or wholesome kamma, depending upon what actions you take or what words you speak or what thoughts you think.

That's why it's important to understand mindfulness and right effort in those choices, to be able to let go of the effects of that kamma in whatever way it might occur, and then allow your mind not to react but to respond in alignment with the Eightfold Path. Every time you do that you don't produce any new kamma, but at the same time the effect of that kamma actually reduces. Thank you.

So I'd like to request Bhante Ananda to do us the honor of sharing merit. May suffering ones be suffering free and the fear-struck fearless be. May the grieving shed all grief and may all beings find relief. May all beings share this merit that we have thus acquired for the acquisition of all kinds of happiness of mighty powers. Share this merit of ours. May they long protect the Buddha's dispensation. Sadhu, sadhu, sadhu. How wonderful.