Day 6 UK Retreat (Sept 2023) - Dependent Origination Pt 2

So today we will conclude Dependent Origination. And we finished off yesterday with understanding suffering. The cause of suffering, which is birth. The cause of birth, which is being or habitual tendencies. The cause of being, which is clinging. The cause of clinging, which is craving. Craving, which is feeling. Now we will talk about the remaining links, starting with contact. So contact comes from the word phassa in Pali or sparsha in Sanskrit. Contact means to touch. Sparsha literally means to touch. So when we talk about contact, we're talking about contact with the eyes, the ears, the nose, the tongue, the body, and the mind. And what are we talking about when we say contact? The initial spark that happens. That is to say, when the photon hits the retina, when the sound vibrations hit the ear, when the odor molecules hit the olfactory bulb in the nose, when the taste molecules hit the tongue, and when temperature and pressure make contact with the skin, and of course, contact.

That's how you are able to experience internal pain, like if you have a stomachache or something like that. And then when we talk about contact in the mind, we're saying that the mental object, or the mind object, whether that is thoughts, whether that's perception, whether that's some kind of reflection, whether it's a commentary, whatever it is, is making contact with the mind. Contact. You need the sense base, so the eyes, the ears, and so on. You need the sense object, or the sense-based object. So for the eyes, it's sight, it's color and form. For the ears, it's sound. For the nose, it's odors. For the tongue, it's flavors. For the body, it's tangibles, internal or external.

And for the mind, it's mind objects. So those are the sense-based objects, and you need the sense-based consciousness. This is actually very important to understand, because somebody who might have their eyes intact, the retina might be hit, but if there's no eye consciousness, in other words, they're blind, they can't see anything. The vibrations could hit the ear, but if there's no ear consciousness, then they are deaf.

For those who've had COVID and lost their temporary sense of smell, temporarily I should say, that's because there was no nose consciousness present over there. Likewise with any of the other sense bases. There needs to be the sense-based consciousness. So the way the Buddha and his disciples have described this in the suttas is: with the eye, there is a corresponding eye consciousness. These three together culminate in eye contact. When the sound makes contact with the ear, there is a corresponding ear consciousness. These three culminate in ear contact. When the odors make contact with the nose, there is a corresponding nose consciousness. These three culminate as nose contact. With the tongue, there is a corresponding tongue consciousness, and these three constitute tongue contact.

When the tangibles make contact with the body, there is a corresponding body consciousness, and these three constitute body contact. When mind objects make contact with mind, there is a corresponding mind consciousness. These three together constitute mind contact. No questions yet. So when we talk about contact, it is made up of three things. This is very important to understand. When we say contact, there are other components involved. The consciousness, the sense-based consciousness, when we talk about that, is flowing through our attention, where we put our attention. So for example, right now, all of your eyes are on me, and there is light bouncing off of this form hitting your eyes, and there's a corresponding eye consciousness that's dependent upon these two and the directionality of that consciousness.

The directionality of that consciousness is attention. So if you think about a stage, there is the light, which is the awareness, the consciousness. The direction that spotlight is turned is based on intention, where you choose to pay attention, and the attention itself is a direction in which the light goes, the consciousness goes. So right now you're all looking at me, but if I direct your attention to Morty, now there is a new consciousness that arises, dependent upon your eyes making contact with Morty and there being eye consciousness dependent upon seeing Modi, right? If I tell you to look up, the attention goes up to the ceiling. So now another corresponding consciousness arises, dependent upon contact between the eyes and the ceiling.

So that means that consciousness is actually impermanent. It is dependent, dependent upon a fuel, just as a fire is known by its fuel. Consciousness is known by the contact, the sense-based experience that is happening. So this contact can be conditioned, or I should say, fettered. Up until this point, we talked about, we touched upon this a little bit, about old karma and new karma. New karma is the craving, clinging, becoming, birth of action, and then further suffering. The old karma is feeling. It is to be felt as an experience. Whatever it is that you're experiencing is the old karma that you have inherited. And that is dependent upon the contact. That contact, the consciousness in that contact, can be stained.

It can be fettered. It can be tainted by different kinds of... I'll get into that when we discuss consciousness. But upakilesas, or defilements, are multifold. But there are 16 main upakilesas that we talk about, and they range anywhere from anger to resentment to pride to conceit to being careless to greed to jealousy to stinginess, to so on and so on and so on. So when the consciousness is tainted in this way, it has a direct effect on how the contact arises. In other words, imprinted in the contact, in the experience of what you see, there's already this underlying consciousness that is grasping at something with a view to do something with it. And then that gives rise to the underlying tendency, the feeling.

So we're talking about dependent origination as 12 links. But in reality, if you look at it as a river again, underneath there are all of these whirlpools. In these whirlpools, the main vortexes are the links of dependent origination. But then, underlying that, on the bedrock, are these underlying tendencies, which I'll talk about when I talk about formations. All you have to understand is that contact is also impermanent, by the very nature that attention keeps moving. So in the context of meditation, when you bring up the feeling of loving-kindness, for example, the feeling of loving-kindness is a mental object. That feeling of loving-kindness is your intention. When your mind makes contact with the feeling of loving-kindness, there is a corresponding consciousness dependent upon that. As soon as a hindrance arises, what has happened is your attention has wavered. Now the mind makes contact with that distraction, with that hindrance, and there is a corresponding consciousness dependent upon that.

And so there is the feeling, the experience of the hindrance in the mind. So how do you redirect that? Using the four R's, using the six R's, using right effort. It's a process of reconditioning your attention back, bringing your attention back over and over and over, until your attention becomes unwavering. And then your mind is ready and ripe to experience jhanas and other worldly states of mind, if you will. Now, what is that contact dependent upon? Naturally, the sixth sense basis. If you didn't have the sixth sense basis, you wouldn't have any kind of contact that corresponds with those sense bases. We say sixth sense basis because that is how the Buddha has denoted them.

But if you think about animals or other beings, they have other kinds of senses. In reality, we do also have other kinds of senses. We have interoception, we have other ways of experiencing the body, and so on. But primarily, it is these six sense bases, tied to these receptors that we have, that connect us to the outside world. The only way we are aware of this so-called world is through these six sense bases. That is why the Buddha has said the world is basically this fathom-long body and the six sense bases. The matrix that we experience is arising through the interface of the six sense bases. That's all it is. So for another animal, for example, when you think about it, their dominant sense base is the nose.

Their world is primarily through smells and scents and odors and so on. When you think about certain birds, their vision is absolutely pristine, better than any human on earth, and so their world is dominated by that. And any animals whose ears are sharp, their world is manifested through different kinds of sounds. Think about bats. Bats are blind for the most part, but they're able to navigate through the world through sonar. So the way we experience this world, we think that that's how the world is. It is manufactured by our six sense bases. Now, these six sense bases are part of what is known as nama rupa, mentality and materiality. Nama actually means name, and rupa actually means form.

So the six sense bases are both name and form, in the sense that you have the physical organs of the eye, the ears, the nose, the tongue, the body, and you have the brain. And so all of these make a part of, or are part of, the nervous system. When we talk about the nervous system, that also is part of nama rupa, the way it receives information and the way it reacts to the information that is received. So you have the sympathetic, you have the parasympathetic, you have the autonomic, the central, and so on and so forth, which have different kinds of function. Experience through this body, even in terms of energy, happens at the level of the brain and the nervous system, the different kinds of nervous systems.

And so this is what constitutes nama rupa. Now within nama there are different components. But first let's talk about rupa. Rupa is understood as form, this form that we have, form that's there, this form that's there, this form that's there. All of this is made up of different kinds of elements. They're called elements, but they're basically states of matter. You have the solid state of matter, which is the earth element. You have the liquid state of matter, which is the water element. You have the gaseous state of matter, which is the air element. And you have the heat that you experience, or the fire element, that's running through the body in different ways. So all of these constitute some kind of form, whether it's solid like this, or liquid in terms of water, or gaseous in terms of the wind. All of this is constituted by the different elements, in different measures, which create the body.

So for the purposes of simplifying, we're talking about just the human body in this case. So really, if you think about it, that is referring to the form aggregate, the rupa khanda. And then when we talk about nama, name, or mentality, it is constituted by five faculties. Contact, feeling, perception, intention, and attention. So contact and feeling are different from the contact and feeling we see further down the road, right? In your chart of dependent origination you will see there is feeling and then there's contact and there's a sixth sense basis and then there's nama rupa. So what is the difference between the contact and the feeling in mentality and the contact and feeling that you see down the road?

Feeling we see in mentality is essentially the faculties through which the process of contact and feeling arise. So contact and feeling as a process of making contact, receiving information, and then the feeling of creating that information into some kind of interpretation. So that's feeling, and perception happens as a result of the sixth sense basis making contact. But in order for that to happen, you need some receptors in the brain. And that is the contact, the feeling, and the perception. So, of course, I'm simplifying it to make it more understandable. But it doesn't mean that there is a specific part of the brain that only does contact, only does feeling, only does perception.

What I'm saying is these are the different faculties, aspects of the mind that allow you to do this. And then intention. Intention is translated from Chetana. It's essentially the inclination your mind has towards something. The way the mind inclines towards something. So when you sit down for meditation, you incline your mind towards loving-kindness. You intentionalize coming to loving-kindness, and you incline your mind towards that, and that is dependent upon formations, sankharas. So if you want to know the quality of your formations, the quality of your sankharas, understand the choices that you make, understand the inclinations that are there, understand the intentions that you have, the decisions that you make in every single moment. That is why when we think about inclination or intention or Chetana, it is in some sense synonymous with formations and in some sense interdependent with formations.

Where we choose to incline the mind, certain formations are strengthened. When those formations are strengthened, that inclination becomes automatic. And finally, we have attention. Attention comes from the word manasikara. Manas is mind or heart. And kara is to do. Manasikara, which means literally to take something to heart. To place your mind upon something. So that is how consciousness flows. Where attention goes, there consciousness flows. So actually, this nama rupa is in essence the five aggregates. We have rupa with the form. Through contact, there arises feeling and perception. So you have the feeling and perception aggregate. Then through the intention, formations flow. That is the formation aggregate. And through attention, you have consciousness. And so that is the consciousness aggregate.

So when you have this Nama Rupa that is in this world, in this existence for humans, they have both name and form. And this is applicable anywhere from the sensual realms in the cosmology up until beyond or just about the luminous form realms, in the Brahma Lokas, as they're called. In the higher realms, which are infinite space, infinite consciousness, nothingness, and neither perception or non-perception, There is no form. There is only mind at that level. And so if you read in Majjama Nikaya 111, you will see that when they're describing the jhanas, they will describe other factors, which includes these nama rupa, that is to say the contact, the feeling, the perception, and so on, and the rupa.

But when they talk about infinite space, infinite consciousness, nothingness, neither perception or non-perception, There is no mention of form. It is a formless state. It is predominantly a mental state. That is why you start to lose contact with the rest of the body. And you are wholly in a mental scape, so to speak. Now, this Nama Rupa is dependent and interdependent with consciousness. consciousness. What is consciousness? So when we say that Nama Rupa or mentality materiality and consciousness are interdependent, what we're saying is consciousness gives rise to Nama Rupa and it is only through Nama Rupa that consciousness can be experienced. So in order for us to know consciousness, you need the interface of nama rupa and the sixth sense basis.

On a macro level, when we talk about rebirth, that is from one lifetime to another lifetime, there too it's understood in Majjhima Nikaya 38, which is the discourse, actually it is about dependent origination. And there the Buddha says that there are three things required for the birth of a new being. You need the mother and you need the father. You need the seed and you need the egg. And you need the corresponding, the descending of a corresponding consciousness. There it's denoted as the Gandabha or the Gandharva. It's just a name. But another word for it is called Patisandhi Vijnana, which means the rebirth linking consciousness. So this is how death and rebirth is understood in Buddhist terminology.

At the moment of one's death, certain things come up. Now, in other traditions, it'll talk about bardos, or it'll talk about near-death experiences, or it'll talk about seeing the light, and so on and so forth. Just a little tip. When you all die, and you see that light at the end of the tunnel, make sure before you go to the light, you look around you and see what's going on. That's all I'll say. Just remember. So this seeing of the light, or seeing of certain patterns, or seeing of certain beings, maybe some people when they die, they see angels, or they see messengers, or even a few days before they die, they will see certain kinds of beings.

They might see their relatives calling to them, might be. These are all known as signs of your next rebirth. So they can indicate where the mind is inclining towards. So if the mind has been wholesome throughout its lifetime, what happens? It automatically inclines towards the wholesome. So at the moment of death, you do go through a process of a life review. It happens in a flash. And you go through all of the karmic events in that life where you were either karmically wholesome or karmically unwholesome. If you've been karmically wholesome, the mind says, that was wonderful, I want more of that. And so that's craving. So the intention is already fettered by craving.

As a result of which, it gives rise to a corresponding consciousness, that rebirth-linking consciousness. All that karma from one life goes to the next life, and it descends into the next life with the seed and the egg. As soon as it makes a connection with the genetic material, so that nama rupa is the genetic material, right then that consciousness dissipates, and there is now a renewal of the arising and passing away of different kinds of consciousnesses, arising and passing away all the time. So in the womb, for the baby, it's already experiencing the world in one way or the other. And it's already experiencing different kinds of consciousnesses, coming and going. And it's formulating different kinds of formations, different kinds of sankharas.

So those sankharas, now we'll go into what those sankharas are. They're threefold, primarily: verbal, physical, and mental. Mental because they are rooted in the mind. And so they allow you to feel and perceive, even though you have the feeling, the sensations, through the sixth sense basis, and it's a physical experience. It is all being registered in the mind. That is why when you say, in the Dhammapada, mind is chief. Mind is the forerunner of all states. This is what we're saying. Everything culminates in the mind. And it is the mind that is interpreting what is going on. It takes all of the different signals and creates an image for you, creates an experience for you. So this is facilitated through the process of mental formations, which allow you to feel and perceive.

Allow you to express out into speech. You think and reflect about something. Most people don't think before they speak, but generally there is still some process of prior reflection before speaking. There's a process of thinking about what was said, or thinking about what is being interpreted, and then there is breaking out into speech. This is facilitated by verbal formations. Physical formations primarily are related to the bodily processes, like the inhalation and the exhalation, the movement of the body. And tied to that there's something called ayu-sankharas, or the vital formations. So these vital formations are essentially related to the process of longevity, aging, what happens in the organs, what happens in the cells, the metabolism, and so on and so forth.

Now, we don't have control over the ayu formations, the longevity formations, or vital formations directly, but we do have some level of conditioning that we can bring about when it comes to the mental formations, when it comes to the verbal formations, and when it comes to the bodily formations. In what way? For example, if the mind has greed, hatred, and delusion, so these are what are known as the kilesas, the roots. If the mind is rooted in greed, hatred, and delusion, and those formations are fettered by that, and then fettered by further taking things personally, by conceit, by craving, by wrong view, by ignorance through the lack of mindfulness, consciousness that is tainted by one of the upakilesas, the defilements, which then conditions how the nama rupa gives rise to the sixth sense basis and how that interface makes contact and experiences the world.

And if so, if those formations have craving in them, then when the feeling arises, there is the likelihood that the underlying tendency towards craving will arise, giving rise to the link of craving, clinging, and so on. So that seems as if it's deterministic. There's nothing you can do about it. Actually, there is. In every single moment, you have the choice to say, I'm noticing that the mind is craving towards something. And you can use right effort to recognize it, release it, relax it, come back to a wholesome state of mind, and stay there, and act from there. Now, these formations, if they're unwholesome, then the mind generally inclines towards the unwholesome. But every time you're able to see that and let go, you are bit by bit weakening the formations, or the synapses, let's say, in the brain related to those behaviors.

And strengthening certain synapses that are related to wholesome behaviors. Wholesome choices. Another way to look at formations is the expression of genes. When we think about our bodies, when we think about the way we behave, certain behavior patterns that we have, it's like as if it's ingrained in us. We have inherited it through the genes that are provided, the genetic material that's provided through our parental lineage, through our mother and through our father. And that's why sometimes the formations that are rooted in a great-grandfather can come all the way down to you. You might have certain kinds of inclinations for certain kinds of food, or you might have certain mannerisms that you don't necessarily inherit directly from your parents, but might be from your great-grandparent or your grandparent.

So this is another way to understand formations. Determines all your behavior? No. You still have a choice to see what's going on and to recondition it. That is the beauty of this practice. Neuroplasticity. You can continue to change. That is why the Buddha says that fatalism or predeterminism is a wrong view. It means that you have absolutely no control over anything. That you just have to live out whatever is happening. That is true to a certain extent when you think about how intention is conditioned. But the fact of the matter is that those conditions can change. And depending upon what you choose, certain conditions can strengthen and certain conditions can weaken. So this is how you can understand sankharas, formations.

They're also the mental impressions that the mind has, depending upon the actions that you produce. Mentally, that is to say, thinking about something, verbally, breaking out into speech, and physically, what you do in terms of your physical deeds. Now, these formations are dependent upon ignorance, for the most part. What is ignorance? Avijja, lack of knowledge, lack of understanding. Ignorance of the Four Noble Truths, not understanding suffering, not understanding that there is a cause or condition for that suffering, not understanding or recognizing the relief from that suffering, and not understanding and not applying the way leading to the relief of that suffering. So when we talk about ignorance, there are layers of ignorance.

There are the things that you don't know that you don't know, and that's not your fault. But then there are things that you know that you don't know, and then there are things that you know that you know, but you still don't do anything about it. And then there are things that you have mastery over. There is no ignorance. So when you eliminate ignorance altogether, how do you do it? Through mindfulness. In the most practical terms, when we talk about ignorance, it is essentially lack of mindfulness, lack of proper attention, not being aware of what is happening in the mind in relation to everything else.

Because when you don't have mindfulness, then craving can step in. Conceit can step in. Aversion can step in. And then give rise to that whole series of suffering. Mindfulness is the gatekeeper. Proper attention. How do you maintain that mindfulness? By continually using right effort. Right effort is not just for the purposes of the meditation practice; right effort is also for the purposes of conditioning and reconditioning. In every moment, what you do now in your daily life has a direct bearing on the quality of your meditation practice. How you meditate and what happens there, and how well you're able to let go, then has a direct effect on how you live your day. So it is that feedback loop system that you have to be aware of.

You can't just sit down for meditation and have a great meditation and then be a jerk all day long. Right? There is a process of applying what you have cultivated through meditation and then seeing the behavioral tendencies arise and letting them go. And eventually what happens is wisdom is cultivated. As you get to the different stages of awakening, craving starts to dissipate bit by bit. Conceit starts to dissipate bit by bit. Wrong views start to dissipate bit by bit. And ignorance starts to dissipate bit by bit. So in the case of somebody who's a stream-enterer, for example, they will still get angry.

They will still get upset. They will still have craving for certain things. But because right view has been established, they have a better understanding through the cultivation of wisdom. They see this as an impersonal process. Maybe due to lack of mindfulness in that moment there's a lapse, and then the mind craves towards something or gets angry at something. But it recovers, it notices it, and it lets it go, instead of getting angry at someone for days on end. You say, is there any point to causing myself suffering in this way? And you just let it go. Then somebody who becomes a once-returner is able to see the seeds of that coming up immediately, the anger or the craving. So their mindfulness is even sharper, and they're able to let go of it before it manifests as a physical action or a verbal action. And if they have a slip-up, they immediately recover.

And then for the anagami, the non-returner, no seed of sensual craving or aversion arises. So there can't be even any fluctuations in the mind for that to arise. However, they still take things personally in the sense that they still identify with the body. They still identify with their personality. They still identify with the Dhamma, with the teaching. And so for the one who's fully awakened, they let go of that as well. And so there, at that point, one can say that ignorance has been destroyed completely. And what does that mean when ignorance has been destroyed completely? Right view has now replaced ignorance. Sammaditthi has replaced avijja. Person, does that mean they don't experience any pain anymore?

Does that mean they don't experience the repercussions of karma anymore? No. So before we go into that, let me also explain that this ignorance is dependent or interdependent on what is known as the asavas. I don't know if that's available on your charts, but if you see Majjhima Nikaya, if you read Majjhima Nikaya 9, Sariputta says that ignorance is dependent upon taints, the asavas. So asavas, what does asava mean? It means to flow out. It means that it's an infection of the mind. So when I was writing A Mind Without Craving, there I was trying to find a good translation for the word asavas. And I decided on the word virus. But this was during the time of the pandemic.

So people were like, are you sure you want to use that word? I'm going to go back and use that word again. Because that is a great word to use. The virus. Virus in the sense that it's an infection of the software of the mind. And there are three kinds of viruses in that sense. There is the virus of sensual craving, existential craving or bhava, and bhava tanha. And there is the virus of ignorance itself. So every time you have lack of mindfulness and you act out of craving or aversion, you are adding to the strengthening of that virus, so that the next outflow of that continues to infect the next arising of dependent origination. And you let go of it, you're weakening the flow of that sensual craving to arise in the next arising.

Every time you take something personally, every time you say, no, this is me, this is mine, this is myself, you are strengthening that virus of existential craving. But every time you notice the mind is starting to clutch onto something and say, this is me, this is mine, myself, and you let go of it and you don't act from it, you're weakening the flow of that craving. And because you are always mindful or practicing that mindfulness, you are also weakening the virus of ignorance. When you do that, ignorance starts to dissipate. When ignorance starts to dissipate, the viruses start to go away. What happens is you reinstall the software of your mind. You put in the antivirus, which is what the eightfold path, starting with right view. And how do you install the new operating system of the eightfold path? Well, you have to make an effort. You have to use right effort. That is why it has been understood that right effort is the core of the path.

Right effort is the heart of the path. It's through right effort that you go from wrong view to right view. Wrong intention to right intention. Wrong speech to right speech. Wrong action to right action. Wrong lifestyle to right lifestyle. Wrong mindfulness to right mindfulness. And wrong collectedness to right collectedness. When you do this and you have perfected it and right view established, then that means a few things. Number one, it means that you have fully understood suffering in all its facets. Number two, you have fully abandoned all of the causes and conditions for that suffering to arise. And three, you have fully realized for yourself the cessation of all of those causes, and hence the total cessation of that suffering.

And number four, you have fully cultivated and perfected the application of the Eightfold Path, the path, right? So that means you have installed the Four Noble Truths in the mind. They have now replaced ignorance. And one who is fully awakened at that point functions from the Eightfold Path. And hence that's why the Buddha says, action doesn't cause a new reaction, because it is letting go of unwholesome actions. And so for the fully awakened being, their speech will always be right speech. Their action will always be right action. Their intention will always be right intention. They will work spontaneously and speak and act and think according to what is required for the situation. Because the self, the preconceived idea of self, is out of the way, they will see what is perfect for that situation.

And this function happens through the cultivation and awakening of intuition. A fully awakened being functions from intuition. They don't use their brain anymore. The intuition makes the decision of what is required for that moment. So what is intuition? It's when the sankharas become synchronous with whatever is required, whether it's to speak something, whether it's to act, or whether it's not to say anything, whether it's not to act. So intuition allows the arahant, allows a fully awakened being to function in this world. They don't have choices of their own, although those choices can be conditioned by preferences that they've cultivated through this mind-body complex, through this nama-rupa. It doesn't mean that if they don't get those preferences, they get upset.

It just means that they have certain preferences. That's all. So now, the karma that arises for that fully awakened being, how does that arise? It doesn't arise through ignorance, because if it had ignorance, then it would take it personally. Formations, which are the carriers of that karma, which allow that karma to flow, will infect, will fetter, will condition how it's experienced through the roots of greed, hatred, and delusion, and then taint or stain the glass of consciousness through which it sees with certain kinds of defilements. And then when it acts, it acts out of me, mine, myself, which further propagates and renews that karma. But for the fully awakened being, when there is no ignorance, then the karma that arises, arises through formations that are said to be pure.

Pure in the sense that they've been purified of any kind of greed, hatred, and delusion. And so all their function is, is a process. It's just an activity of bringing about that karma that arises. And so when that arises, the consciousness remains untainted. That consciousness is known as anidassana vinnana. So, anidassana. Anidassana has different kinds of translations, but the easiest translation, I would say, is that it is a non-reflective consciousness or non-manifestive consciousness. The analogy that I would use here is you imagine that you have a mirror and you have a person standing in front of the mirror. What they see is a reflection of themselves, because they've projected an idea of that. But you take away the self.

You take away the notion of a personal self, and then that mirror doesn't reflect anything. The mirror of that consciousness doesn't reflect anything. In other words, it's non-manifestive. It's non-reflective. It doesn't add to anything. It just sees things as they actually are. Hence, in the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. In the cognized, there is only the cognized. There is no you in that. There is no you before that. There is no you after that. suffering. So when the karma arises and the consciousness doesn't manifest anything, doesn't reflect anything, then the function of nama-rupa and the sixth sense base remains just a function of interpreting data based on perception, based on memory that this brain has received.

And then when it experiences whatever it experiences, it is just experiencing. There's no experiencer, it's just an experience. That means no underlying tendencies towards craving, towards aversion, towards doubt, towards views, towards conceit, towards bhava, towards ignorance. None of that arises. If none of that arises, then no craving arises. When no craving arises, no new associations can be made for what I think I like or what I think I don't like. No new opinions, no new judgments, no new concepts, no new ideas will be made from the sense of self. When that's the case, then there is a destruction of all kinds of bhava. Nibbana is also understood as bhava nirodha, the cessation of all bhava, the cessation of all identity, or the cessation of all processes of identification. So the habitual tendencies that would arise will no longer arise. It will just be spontaneous, depending upon the situation, which means the birth of action that arises is not the birth of new karmically active action.

It's just action that is required in that moment, dependent upon and conditioned by the intuition. Hence, no suffering arises. So the fully awakened being experiences pain? Absolutely. But that pain is seen as what? A painful experience, and nothing more. Does that mean that the fully awakened being doesn't try to alleviate that pain? No, it doesn't mean that. Of course, they will try to find comfort. Of course, they will try to alleviate that pain. But the second arrow of mental suffering around that pain, the opinions and judgments about that pain, goes away. So the pain is just the pain, cessation of that pain. So this is dependent origination in a nutshell. Any questions? Thank you for that talk.

So the purification process, six hours, we're allowing the mind to experience more and more pleasant states. And then at some point we experience nirvana. Yeah. For a mind that's experienced nirvana, how does that mind experience contact? You mean in the Nirvana experience itself? Well, both. In the Nirvana experience and post. Yeah. So in the Nirvana experience itself, first of all, it's a process but not an experience. I mean, anything you try to put words to, it's just all conditioned. But in the suttas and in the experience itself, it said that contact is made up of three things. It is a contact that is undirected, it is a contact that is signless, and it is a contact that is empty.

What that means is undirected, because it has no intention that goes anywhere in that moment of experience of Nibbana. Signless, because it's not taking anything as an object. Nibbana cannot necessarily be directly taken as an object. And empty, because it's empty of all notions of self. And then for one who has experienced Nibbana and one who is fully awakened, that means, because there's no greed, hatred, or delusion, their mind is always in Nibbana itself. It's the cessation of all kinds of factors for craving, for conceit, and so on. So that's the mundane Nibbana that the mind continues to be in, so to speak. And then when the mind meditates and just shuts down, as it were, it goes into the experience of that super-mundane Nibbana. Now, that mundane Nibbana is accessible to whether they're fully awakened or not. The only difference is, for the fully awakened being, it's always available. It's there. It's the nature of that mind. But for you to experience it, if you continue to let go and relax, that relief that you experience is mundane Nibbana. Thank you.

This might be a stupid question, but is the once-returner, the stream return, they will just keep coming back and then the other one's done? So is it, are we going to just keep coming back till we get to, because some people are not interested at all in this stuff? Yeah, that's okay. How does that, is that the game that we just keep having life till we discover that there is a way out of suffering? That's right. Samsara is one big game, right? And some people know they're playing the game and some people don't know that they're in the game. That's really what it is. And there are no such things as stupid questions.

I don't say that. The idea is that within the understanding of Buddhism, those who are in samsara, like The Matrix is a perfect analogy for this, really. You guys have to watch The Matrix again. It's amazing. I was watching it on the flight and it's like, wow, there's so much Dhamma here. It's amazing. Right? There are those who are not unplugged. They're still plugged into it. And that's okay. Until, and that's the understanding we'll see when we talk about transcendental dependent origination, where people don't know that they're suffering.

Even if they know they're suffering, they're finding other ways to alleviate that suffering, which only causes more suffering, until they get tired of it and they say there must be a way out. And that's where they start to unplug and realize, oh, there is a way out, and they can choose to either play the game or not to play the game. Just a quick follow-up. So is there something happening in consciousness now? Because when I did my first Vipassana retreat, like years ago, it felt like I would achieve enlightenment after 25 000 lifetimes. But it seems like people are just popping off easily. Yeah, or like with the twin retreat. I know David Johnson told me the last online retreat, yeah, that 30 of people, so that's quite high, yeah. So is something happening? Is something speeding up? Like the game is, on a speeded-up something.

In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't mean a whole lot. Because we're talking about people who, let's say, they have popped off. I like that expression, by the way. People who have popped off, that's probably .000000000000001% of the entire population of all of samsara who experience that. So it doesn't really mean much in the grand scheme of things. That's right, and that's a good thing you bring up, because that's how tendencies arise. Another way to look at formations, or sankharas, is as algorithms. The more you do certain kinds of searches, what happens? YouTube shows you the stuff that you like, that you want. So the more somebody starts to practice the Dhamma, what happens?

They start to attend retreats like this. They start to read the suttas. They become more fascinated by this. They become more disenchanted with the outside world. And they want to meditate more and more, because the formations are strengthening in that way. Now for the stream enterer, yeah. Formerly it said stream enterer has up to seven lifetimes. The once-returner has up to one lifetime. The anagami has no more returning. And the arahant has escaped the game. actually mean? Because there is this idea that a once-returner means that they won't come back after one more lifetime, and a non-returner means they won't come back. But it doesn't mean that. For an anagami they have one more lifetime left, or for a once-returner they have one more lifetime left and then they become an arahant.

It doesn't work that way. When they talk about returning, they're talking about returning to the sense-based world. For the anagami, let's say, they go into a Brahmaloka, they might have a few more lifetimes before they pop off. That what is wearing the non-self to be observed, that is that, and then the self to be let go of, what is the self to be let go of? The birth, right? The suffering, the birth, the clinging, the habitual tendencies, the clinging and the craving. The non-self to be observed is what the formations, the consciousness, the mentality-materiality, the sixth sense base, the contact and the feeling. That's all you have to do is just observe, observe, and 6R.

I could save you a whole lot of time if I just said these two words. Observe, 6R. That's it. How should I understand returning? Who is returning if there is no self, soul, and so on? So when we talk about returning, we're saying that we talk about rebirth, right? So we said that the consciousness departs from that existence into a new existence. It transfers all this karma that then culminates into a new being. So if I were to ask you, that I have one candle and you have one candle. My candle is lit, and I take that candle and I light your candle. Now the flame that's on that candle, is it the same flame as this candle, or is it different from this flame?

Different. Why? Because it seems as if it's one candle but it's rapidly coming and going off. But it's not totally different from this candle because it needed the fuel of this candle for it to arise. But it's not the same as this candle either because now a new flame arises or new fuel arises for that candle flame to arise. So what we're saying is, what's going on is there is a continuum, not necessarily a soul or a self, but karma is that continuum in the relative world. And so the repercussions, the seeds, the formations are all transported from one life to the next life. That life is completely new based on the new fuel of the genetic material and the different things that might arise in that being.

But it's being carried forward due to the continuation of previous choices. And you see that just in one lifetime, where you start to see in your life the different memories that you have. They're very similar because of the actions that you've taken, because of the thoughts that you've thought and so on. the next as well. So there's nothing that is continuing except for the fuel that allows for the transference of that karma. So I am not reborn but a moment... A new existence comes to be. Thank you. This is not entirely related to the talk but related to the game you mentioned. I'm a huge fan of near-death experiences, so you, and usually you were talking about the light, going to the light and things like that. So I have watched so many videos and things like that, and these people talk about not only going to the light but they see their life's blueprint, like they see all the events, like Majeevian silences and all the big incidents that happened to them.

So for us, is this also part of the game? We come to dharma and also to somebody to pop out. Is it also part of the game? Right. So when we talk about near-death experiences, what's interesting about that is, yes, there will always be some kind of life review process and you start to see the peak experiences of that particular lifetime, and how you choose to react will then determine what happens. So if it's been mostly wholesome, your mind will incline towards that. If it's been mostly unwholesome, your mind will incline towards that, because it will have regret or remorse, or it will have aversion or pain. Then there could be the arising of a not so wholesome existence. The idea that somebody pops off is predetermined.

Nope, not at all. You still have to take action. The idea here is that, yes, once you enter the stream, then you have a one-way ticket to Nibbana. Right? But other than that, you still have to make the effort. So if somebody has entered the stream, and is a stream enterer, that means they don't continue to make the effort. It's just that any kind of unwholesome states that lead to unwholesome existences is cut off. And the potential for them to even experience arahatship in that life is present to them. So such a person within that understanding would be maybe born in the family of meditators. Maybe they will be born in a spiritual family. Maybe at a very young age they will be disenchanted with the world, not interested in having a job and all these other things. Maybe they'll be wanting to go and study spirituality, whatever it might mean, but those inclinations happened because of prior effort. I've got two much more mundane questions.

And one is super mundane. Yeah. And one is just more mundane. So just the regular mundane one. In the quiet mind meditation, it seems that that mind has a frequency, an audible frequency. And I remember that Ajahn Sumedho called it the sound of silence. And it's like a kind of, almost like a tinnitus, it's kind of constant, yeah. And so I was experimenting with using that as the experience of quiet mind, or using that as a tether to quiet mind. Right. And I just wondered your thoughts on that, or whether it's just something that you... It's quite hard to 6R it because it's sort of present. But I just wondered about your thoughts about taking that, as it were, as the manifestation of quiet mind.

I would say that you can see it, as you just said, as a manifestation. But I think instead of focusing on that, because that changes. That sound that you experience, it changes. First, it's experienced as this high-pitched frequency, and it starts to become lower, and you start to experience other sounds. So it changes, and it's not something you want to pay too much attention to. Just see it as, okay, that's a background manifestation of mind becoming quieter. And just use mind itself as your tether. So come back to the stillness. Yes.

Okay. And the super mundane question. What do you think about checking time during the sit? You've been sitting for a while. You've kind of gone through a phase of really being in touch with my mind, coming out of that. And then I was thinking it might be helpful, actually, just to check the time. But what's your thought on that? Best not to sit as still as this guy is, right? As much as you can. Yes, I know that sometimes you need a bathroom break and things like that, but you can continue the practice going on and then come back, right? And then continue to sit as best as you can. Better that your mind goes deeper and forgets about the time completely and just stays with the meditation.

So when I, yeah, go ahead. When I give instruction, like sit for another hour and a half or sit for two hours, it's just basically a way of saying, go deeper, sit for longer, whatever, however longer that is. I was thinking it might help motivation. So come out feeling, the mind's feeling kind of a bit averse, it wants to get away. And checking time, maybe, oh, like, okay, if I go for another 15 minutes, I've made an hour and a half. But you could skip that completely by just realizing, oh, mind is getting antsy, or the body is getting antsy, and let go of the aversion to that. Let go of the restlessness to that.

And then say to your mind, all right, another five minutes. Let me just relax back in. Because otherwise the mind is tricking itself, deceiving itself, saying, oh, let me just check the time. And then now what happens is, now checking the time, it goes back and it's like, oh, 15 more minutes. I wonder if 15 minutes has passed. So let go of that and then just notice the restlessness. Tranquilize that. Come back and say, okay, yeah, another 15 minutes. And in that way, the mind forgets about how much time it is and just keeps sitting. And that's how 15 minutes can become, you know, 45 minutes or an hour. And something like a bathroom break or something, is that really then coming back, you kind of going into a new sitting at that point, or is that a, can that just be a continuation?

Yeah, I mean, it could be a new sitting, and that's fine. But you just have to tell me, okay, I had a break, and I came back and sat. But you wouldn't see that as a continuation of the same. I'm not trying to get... I'm just... Don't look for the loopholes. Yeah, no, no. I wasn't saying that. No, I was thinking, like, I was sitting here, then I went and sat on the sofa, and it just seemed like a continuation. And that's fine. That's fine if you want to interpret it that way. I won't take off any marks from your... The mind kind of went back to where it was.

And so I was thinking, oh, that might be helpful, actually, but I... Right. But don't do it too much. I told you it was mundane. Also, the thing about the matrix is that actually samsara is better in the matrix than the reality. That is true. Remember that guy who eats that piece of steak and is like, I just want to go back. Yeah, exactly. Didn't you have a question? You were mentioning something. Yeah, well, there was something about that the mind creates. Yeah, I can't remember exactly. All right, that's fine. I think you were talking about things being applying to the mind, rather than the mind creating them. Yeah, thoughts and so forth. Yeah. Yeah, I think that was that.

What was the thing? Oh yes, I think it was to do with feelings affecting the mind, and to me it seemed more like the mind was creating the experience, thoughts, rather than thoughts affecting the mind. Yeah, I think you can see it in both ways, because the mind, so when we say thoughts, right, it's a very broad category if you think about it, because there can be thoughts that come out of nowhere that had no intention of coming up. That happens in the meditation all the time, a stream of thoughts. And you could say the mind is generating it, but if you look at it and you separate it, then you're just seeing the mind and not really the thoughts coming from the mind.

And then there are thoughts that arise where you intentionally bring them up. Like, for example, when you intentionally bring up loving kindness and things like that. So the thoughts themselves are just signals, and then your mind sees it and it perceives it or feels it and perceives it. So it's like, okay, this is the kind of thought that I'm having, and so that sense of it's coming from me is where the trouble is. But if you just let go of that and just let thoughts be as they are, that's what you're doing in the meditation. If you're sitting in quiet mind and you're bombarded by thoughts and you remain here, then the thoughts dissipate. But the moment you engage with them, what happens?

They start to ruminate over and over and over because you're giving it energy. You're giving it attention. So the mind should not be seen as a generator, but actually a receiver. Yes, it's conditioning what is being received, but it's in itself not generating anything. And mind is not just thoughts. Mind is also everything else. When we talk about mind, oftentimes we think the mind is here in the head, or mind is here in the heart, or mind is the brain and the nervous system.

No. Samsara is mind. That's why when we send loving kindness to someone, they're able to receive it. They're able to feel it. How do you explain that? There's something going on beyond just the physical interface. And so when we talk about mind, it's such a broad definition. So in the same way, thoughts and experiences or sensations or feelings, they're not being generated. They're just being received and interpreted in a certain way.

Would intention, would you think of intention as being a thought as well? Yes. Now, intention is the most subtle thing, because it's like, I made that intention. I made that choice. I made that decision. And when you see it that way, then a new existence arises in the next moment, next life. So when the Buddha talked about it with Ananda, Ananda asked, what is this existence? And the Buddha said that when intention is fettered by craving and hindered by ignorance, then it gives rise to a corresponding existence. But if the intention is unfettered, has no craving in it, unhindered, there's total awareness and a... to what? To seeing this as not me, not mine, not myself, then no new existence is generated.

So intention is a function of the mind. And yeah, it can give rise to things when it is taken personally. But if you let go of intention, then intention is replaced by intuition. And it's just receiving everything and generating what is required for that situation without further suffering, without further karma, without further existence coming in the way. Okay, thanks. - You know, like we normally describe the ignorance, the beginning as not really understanding the full noble truth. That's where I just kind of really think there's like a lot of, whether you're in different stages of attainment or even without the attainment, you say, "No, I get the full noble truth. I believe in the full noble truth. I definitely get it." - Yeah. - But obviously there's something else more than that. - Yeah.

A specific question I've got is that it seems like even in the different stages of attainment, that Eightfold Path is not fully integrated. So almost the reboot is not finished yet. And also, I was intrigued by what you said about this asava, because ignorance itself is interdependent, so something else also needs to be kind of finished, complete, before one becomes fully enlightened. So it's not just like you don't understand, but you don't apply it. There's some far deeper things that need to be worked on. This is why that final stage is just not as simple as understanding the Four Noble Truths.

That's right, because we can have an entire talk on the Four Noble Truths, and you can do a whole lifelong study of it. But unless it's integrated in the mind as a process of application, and living the Four Noble Truths, then it's all for naught. Are we having gaps in the mindfulness? For example, let's say somebody who is sotapanna, let's say, and then different stages. It's not that they don't understand the full noble truth. Are they having gaps in the mindfulness, for you to apply it? You have to have a mindfulness. So it feels as if an arahant has a 100% mindfulness at all times.

It feels like there's a 25%, 50%, 75%, it's just the pie chart getting filled. If only it were that simple. In terms of, is that lack of mindfulness that's going on? That's exactly what I said. Ignorance means, practically speaking, lack of mindfulness. Every time you're not aware of craving arising, that's ignorance. Every time you're not aware that the mind is identifying with something, you have more ignorance. So that's the only way to understand ignorance, because ignorance of not understanding the Four Noble Truths means you are ignoring the Four Noble Truths. When you're unmindful, what are you doing? You're not aware that you're suffering.

You're not aware that there's a cause and condition for the suffering. There's no way you're able to experience any kind of relief, and you're not applying the Eightfold Path. As soon as you have mindfulness and you're aware, oh, there's suffering here, what is causing the suffering? There's a tension going to that, and then there's a letting go of that using right effort, which is the application of the Eightfold Path to experience the cessation of that. Which means it's a constant practice of mindfulness, and to grind away at that ignorance. Thank you.

May suffering ones be suffering free and the fear struck fearless be. May the grieving shed all grief and may all beings find relief. May all beings share this merit that we have thus acquired for the acquisition of all kinds of happiness. May beings inhabiting space and earth, devas and nagas of mighty power, share this merit of ours. May they long protect the Buddha's dispensation. Sadhu, sadhu, sadhu.