Day-4 QA - Online 10-day Retreat (Nov-3) with Delson Armstrong

Who would like to begin? Explain a little bit about ignorance and the connection between ignorance and projections, since they are rooted in ignorance, is rooted within projections. And I was also thinking about, since craving is the automatic response to all feelings that arise, and when the false sense of self also comes through projections that are not rooted in reality, right? Kind of. And I wonder if this is also because reality is always changing, because the nature of reality is in flux all the time. Or is it because it's connected? How is it connected with time? I wonder. Like the flux that is going on in nature and in humans. Reality, yeah. Okay, so let's start with ignorance and the projections, or the defilements, as you saw in that sutta where Sariputta talks about how there's an interdependent nature between the projections and ignorance. So what are the projections? There's the projection of sensual craving, craving for sensory experience, experiences.

And that could mean both craving in the way of wanting something or not wanting it, and identifying with that feeling, with that sensory experience. The second projection is the projection of being, which is related to conceit and related to that sense of self, which keeps being built up based on how you accumulate certain tendencies. The sense of self that arises is the sense of self that arises at the level of, let's say, birth of action. But it's being built up through clinging, which is the accumulation of certain tendencies, accumulation of certain stories and ideas about whatever is being experienced or felt. Or being, which is the accumulated tendencies. So at that point in time the self has sort of become solidified by taking those accumulated tendencies. So whenever you see individuals or a sense of a self, all these sense of selves are nothing but bundles of karma, bundles of associations, bundles of different desires, wants and ideas and concepts, and they're all interacting with one another, but they are always in flux, because in every given moment it arises and passes away.

So the accumulation of tendencies also changes based on the input of the sensory experiences, as well as how one craves or how one perceives. Now, the third projection is ignorance itself. So ignorance, as we traditionally know it, is the ignorance of the Four Noble Truths: not understanding suffering, not understanding the cause of suffering, not understanding the cessation of suffering, and not understanding the way leading to suffering. So what really happens is, as you progress through the paths and understand with wisdom, you are bit by bit eating away, or you could say breaking apart or weakening, the fetters within the formations.

So the formations are up until the level of the arahant. At the level of the arahant, ignorance is completely destroyed. So up until that point, you still have some form of ignorance, which is conditioned by the projections. But depending on what attainment you're at, that ignorance will continue to feather the formations, and those formations will still continue to feather consciousness and the rest of it, and still continue to have some form of craving or clinging. In the case of a sotapanna there is still some craving going on. In the case of a sakadagami, very little craving is going on, very little ill will is going on; as soon as it arises the sakadagami is able to see it and let it go, but it still arises.

At the level of an Anagami, that is destroyed, which means at that point, the projection of sensual craving is also destroyed. And what remains now is the projection of being and the projection of ignorance. which are in the formation, through conceit, which continues to condition such a consciousness, which continues to take personal things, still takes personal in the way of identifying with them, meaning there is still conceit there. So in the level of an Anagami, in the case of an Anagami, they still take some sense of delight in, for example, the jhanas or cessation. the Jana or I am entering cessation and so on there is still some form of delight in certain things but there's no craving there meaning there is no attaching the the desire for certain things in the way of sensory experiences in the way of sensual experiences which is why first and foremost when you destroy the first three fetters.

This is going to be a little bit of a long answer, so bear with me. When you destroy the first three fetters, you basically enter the attainment of sotapanna. So that means you have closed off the potential for rebirth in a lower realm. Then in the case of a sakadagami, you have weakened the fetter of craving and ill will, the craving or the aversion.

And then at the level of an anagami, so as long as you're a sakadagami, you will still return to the earth or one of the central realms, because you still have sensory craving. But when you destroy the sensual craving, the projection of sensual craving, then you no longer have the potential of taking rebirth in any of the sense realms, in the sense spheres.

will take rebirth in one of the pure abodes and from there attain arahantship. But if you continue on to arahantship in the same life, you then destroy the conceit, having destroyed the projection of being. Now, the projection of being, as I said, is all about taking personal the accumulated tendencies that have been built up through that sense of self, and taking personal the experiences to the level of identifying with them, saying, for example, as I said, "I am in jhana," and so on and so forth, but there is no central craving operating in that kind of a mindset. But then at the level of an arahant, when you destroy that being and you destroy the sensual craving, you have destroyed the fetters that influence those formations, and you're also destroying the ignorance that conditions those formations.

Then what happens is, instead of ignorance at the level of an arahant, now that you have had the complete right view, having understood the Four Noble Truths, having understood the links of dependent origination, what happens is, first of all, at the level of the anagami, it is destroyed, but there is still some clinging to a sense of self in the process of the links of dependent origination. But at the level of the arahant, the link of craving will never arise. Only at the level of feeling there will be some sensory experience, but there will be no reaction to it that will create craving and new karma and suffering. So when you destroy ignorance once and for all, what is replaced by it is Right View, the elevated Right View: the understanding of the Four Noble Truths, the understanding of the links of paticca samuppada, the understanding of rebirth and karma.

And then what happens is the formations are now pure. And that means the formations are no longer chained by the projections, no longer chained by the defilements, because now they are, in some sense, conditioned by Right View. So then those formations that arise and give rise to the next consciousness, that consciousness will not take anything personal through any kind of intention. And when that arises, when at the level of feeling that sensory experience is felt, there's nothing being taken personal. It's just a series of processes. So the automatic view of an arahant at that point is they take whatever is there as to be impermanent, personal and not worth holding on to. So they don't hold on to it, and they just let go of it.

As soon as it arises, it passes away, and there's no clinging on to it. There's no identifying with it. Therefore, no craving, no clinging, and so on and so forth. So this is also the operation of karma, which is to say that, as I said before, the formations are karmic impulses. They're carriers of karma. They will still experience the effects of karma produced previously, prior to full awakening, prior to attainment of arahantship. So the effects of that karma are the old karma that you're experiencing.

So that will be experienced through the formations, but it will be terminated at the level of feeling, because there's no identifying with it. There's no personalizing it. There's no craving or clinging there. Bit by bit it will be destroyed; it starts to weaken every time it is felt, but no new kamma will be produced. So that is the understanding of the projections. Number one, sensual craving has a connection with the link of craving. So the more one has the link of craving, of sensual craving, and this in turn builds up the craving, the more one identifies with it, the more one identifies with the accumulated tendencies, with being, the more one builds up the projection of being. And the more one does this, obviously, the more one builds up the projection of ignorance. So there is again a feedback loop process going on in that regard. But the more, and this is why it's always important to understand intention, the more you let go of it, the more you have the intention of letting go and understanding that the choices you make now

will produce the old kamma that you inherit in the future. Which means any choice you make, depending on how you take it: if you start to make choices that are rooted in Right View, choices that are aligned with the Eightfold Path, they will not produce any suffering; they will not produce any kamma. Every time your choice is aligned with the Eightfold Path, it just nullifies whatever is happening right there and then. But if your choices are rooted in any of the projections, it will continue to build up the ignorance. It will continue to build up the craving. It will continue to strengthen the fettered formations, the formations that are fettered by craving and conceit and ignorance.

So every time you have a choice, whether it's in the meditation practice where you apply the 6R's, or whether in daily life when you apply the 6R's, you are determining that you are weakening those formations from arising in the next moment on. Thank you. Nelson, I will go with one question. Yeah. In the Sutta of Samyutta, this formula of suffering, origin of suffering, cessation, path leading to cessation, is applied pretty much in all the links of dependent origination, in other places. Is it meaning that the sutta is explaining levels, level by level? The first thing, first explanation was it's just saying unwholesome and wholesome. Yeah, then it's going deeper and deeper. Yeah. How we need to understand it is if any aspect is

all aspects of samatiti. That you are embedding mind with right view. There are levels of right view, which is the mundane right view and the super mundane right view. Meaning the mundane right view has, in relation to the precepts, keeping the precepts, knowing that our actions have consequences, and that there is kamma, and that there is rebirth, and so on and so forth. So when you know that, you understand that it's important to cultivate wholesome mindsets, wholesome qualities of mind, wholesome actions and wholesome speech, because that will result in wholesome rebirth in the next moment, and so on and so forth. So once you start to see this, you're starting to practice right effort.

You're starting to practice right intention. You're starting to apply right speech. You're starting to apply right action. You're starting to apply right livelihood. And this is all done when you have right mindfulness, when you're observing in every moment the choices that you have available to you. And with right mindfulness, you're making the choices that are rooted in right view. So already you're taking care of a majority of this Eightfold Path. And that culminates in collectedness, in effective collectedness, where you then take it into your meditation practice, go through the jhanas, and then experience Nibbana, and so on and so forth. So it always starts with cultivating the wholesome, uprooting the unwholesome. Once you start doing that, you are starting to bring in choices for yourself.

You're starting to bring in situations for yourself that lead you towards right view. And every time you make a wholesome choice, you're reconditioning the formations for the next moment. conceit that create the ignorance and that create the craving, and you're strengthening the formations that help you to make more wholesome choices in future moments. The more you do this in your daily living, that translates to a better meditation in your sitting practice, and that allows you to let go even deeper and subtler formations as you get higher and higher into the levels of meditation until you finally are able to some of the fetters. There's a chance you can destroy all of the fetters all at once, but you need a mind that is quite sharp, quite deep, and a very deep understanding of right view for that to occur.

But it might happen in stages. It might happen in different stages. So, however it happens, the most important part is that you have to follow the Eightfold Path in this way, which is always rooted in cultivating the wholesome, the unwholesome, establishing right view bit by bit, reconditioning the formations through right action, right speech and right livelihood, with right intention in mind, using right mindfulness, and then allowing all of that to come to fruition in right collectedness. And then when right view is fully established, which continues to influence the formations, which are now pure, meaning they're purified of the fetters, from the projections of craving, being, and ignorance, that then unlocks, so to speak, the two path factors, or the fruition of the path, which is the right knowledge and the right liberation, or effective insight, knowing that the projections are no longer active, and will no longer be active, and through that knowledge, having the experience of vimutti, the liberation of mind. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Delson, I wonder if you can maybe explain a bit the difference between self-identity view and conceit, please. So, self-identity view is the view that there is a permanent sense of self, and that the permanent sense of self continues to take rebirth. So it's the very same self that continues to take rebirth lifetime after lifetime after lifetime. And that same sense of self is the inheritor of the past deeds, the effects of kamma.

Whereas conceit is one of the higher fetters. First of all, when you do become a sotapanna, you destroy any sense of that kind of view, the identity view, and the idea that any of the five aggregates are self, are permanent self. So when you destroy that fetter, there is still that sense of conceit, catching some sense of self, even if it's impermanent, and identifying with that sense of self in any action, thought, or word.

And identifying it in the sense of any activity of the mind, whether it's going into jhana or doing anything else, and also comparing a sense of self with the outside world, with one sense of self and the other sense of self. So having the idea that there are other people who have a sense of self. And so the difference is really this. The identity view, or the self view, is the view in a permanent self. Once you destroy that, the conceit that's there is still identifying with it. Even though you know that there is no permanent self, there is still this sense of identification,

with it. There is still this attachment with it, and there's still this use of I, me, or mine with that sense of self, attaching and identifying with it. And an arahant can also use the words I, me, or mine, but they use it for conventional purposes. But behind those words, there is no sense of any kind of self, even permanent or impermanent, or whatever it might be. There's another sutta that you might want to read called the And in that, he talks about how the five aggregates arise and pass away. And briefly put, he talks about how the identity view is destroyed, but the conceit is like an underlying scent. It's like the scent of a rose or a flower or whatever.

So there is still the sense of self. There's this still sense of identification, which is the result of having been going through lifetime after lifetime of the identification process. So it's a matter of reconditioning the mind, reconditioning the formations by continually following the Eightfold Path, by continually establishing right view by following the Eightfold Path, and then ultimately making choices where one does not identify or cling to the jhanas or cling to any sensory experience, sees it and experiences the three characteristics of existence at the level of feeling. The more one weakens the fetter in the formations and the projections that feed those formations that create that sense of being, that create that sense of self in that conceit, and then finally that is destroyed when, at the final arahatship, when you have that experience, there's no anywhere happening with that experience.

Up until the level of an anagami, the relief that is felt after nirodha, after cessation, the relief that is felt, there is still some identification there. Because of that identification, there is still craving in the case of a sotapanna. And then at the level of a sakadagami, that relief is felt, but not so much attached to, and therefore there is a weakening of the sensual craving and the weakening of ill will. And then at the level of an anagami there is only the identification there, but there is no taking relief in the sense of that being a sensory relief. It's just understanding that it was a series of processes, a series of causes and conditions, but there is still identification with the reliefs, meaning there is the idea that the being says that I just experienced nirodha, I just experienced nibbana.

At the level of arahatship, there is no identification with any of that process. The idea of I, me or mine is completely destroyed. So that relief, that sense of relief, has no identification. The nirodha, the cessation, has no identification. Nibbana has no identification, and because there's no identification, the fetters have no fuel to continue and just drop away. This is the remainderless fading away of desire, remainderless fading away of conceit, remainderless fading away of ignorance. This is how it is processed. Thank you very much. I have a question regarding the seven awakening factors.

So it seems to me that, is it safe to assume that mindfulness is something that should be kept all the time, and the other factors seem more like a delicate dance, a balance, we kind of input in, like a driver too, if needed? Mindfulness is always there, whether you are meditating, let's say you have a sitting practice, or in daily living. This is why there's the four foundations of mindfulness in everyday living. You are mindful of the body as body, you're mindful of sensations as sensations, you're mindful of mind as mind, and you're mindful of phenomena as phenomena. Every time you use your mindfulness, you are activating the factor of mindfulness, the enlightenment factor of mindfulness.

Which means that you are able to see when a hindrance is arising and quickly let go of it, quickly use the 6R process to let go of it. Now, when it comes to the other balancing factors, or the other enlightenment factors that need to be balanced, just know that when you are in the jhana practice, the enlightenment factors are already present in there. But as you get into deeper levels, you will see that, for example, perception or non-perception, your mind usually tends to slope either towards sloth and torpor or restlessness.

These are the two hindrances that are most dealt with when it comes to the perception, neither perception or non-perception. And you will not see sensual craving in there. You won't see ill will there. You won't see doubt there as a hindrance. But know this, whenever the hindrances are present, at that point, the enlightenment factors are not present. But as soon as you bring in mindfulness, you start to bring in the other enlightenment factors depending upon which jhana you're in, meaning the level of the jhana that you're at determines the amount of enlightenment factors that are present. So for example, when you are in the first and second jhana, is more prevalent.

And then as you get deeper and deeper, certain other factors are more prevalent. And then once you get into quiet mind, as you're just observing quiet mind, everything has been aligned and balanced and now smoothly flowing. So it's been dealt with: the sensual craving, the ill will, and the doubt, those hindrances have been completely dealt with. And then now all you're dealing with is the sloth and torpor and restlessness.

So whenever you see this happening, know that you're not in jhana. So when you use the 6R process, every step of the 6R process is in alignment with one of the enlightenment factors. So every time you use the 6R process, you are activating or reactivating the enlightenment factors. And by doing so, you're coming back into jhana. Thank you.

and torpor. Yes. And just before you become an arahant, those are the two that are still left to be dealt with. Just pops into my mind. That's a very good observation. And from experience, you can see that that is the case. Yes. Interesting. I just got another question related to seven factors of enlightenment. Can I say something like this?

When one is practicing one-pointed concentration, there is no, even if there is slight imbalance, even if a small hindrance occurs, then he cannot balance it, because he doesn't know how to balance the seven factors of enlightenment. Can I say something like this? When you have one-pointed concentration or one-pointed focus, what you're doing is you're actually suppressing the hindrances.

So you're also suppressing the mind's ability to see the hindrances. So after you come out of that one-pointed focus or that one-pointed concentration, what one will notice is that for a period of time it may seem all well and fine, but then the hindrances arise with a vengeance, and there are still those hindrances present. Whereas if you're using open awareness in the case of the twin practice, whereas you're using attention rooted in reality and using this open mindfulness, you are already able to see how the hindrances are arising with mindfulness, and then therefore activate the other enlightenment factors. But in the case of the one-pointed focus or one-pointed concentration, none of those factors are even present.

There may sometimes be joy arising because of that one-pointed focus, but that is the wrong kind of joy. You can say it's ineffective joy. Enlightenment factors and so on and so forth, and the mind may seem like it's collected, but it's not collected. It's suppressed rather than collected. Collected mind and unification of mind, or unified mindset, is an attention around the object of meditation, or the vehicle of meditation as it's sometimes called. And so when you're around it, you have a more clear and open awareness, to which you can now recognize when hindrances might arise, and when they do, you can quickly 6R them, or when insights arise, like insights into the three characteristics of existence, insights into the links of dependent origination, insights into the Four Noble Truths, and so on.

So this is the way that the path would be most effective. Thanks, Zilson. Thank you. All right, let's share some merit if nobody else has any questions. Let's see here. Kin, you are now host. Oh, wait, sorry. Okay. It somehow went to someone else. Give me one second. Oh, Anthony, you are host now for some reason. So can you make him host? No, Anthony, the other Anthony.

I think it actually was me. I've made her the host now. Okay. Do you have merit? Or I can... I can't share my screen, so... what you can do is just click on Kin's name and, in the drop-down, you can say make host. There you go. Okay, all right. Can everyone see it? Share together, how about that? Okay, let's do it. May suffering ones suffering. Thank you, thank you everyone. Thank you, Jason. Thank you. Be well.